Game Golf tracking system (merged)

[MBarger]

So... noob question I know, but looking at purchasing the Basic GG system for $125 on Amazon. Is the only difference between this and GG Live the GPS Rangefinder app? Will I be able to get the new strokes gained data?

 

Thanks in advance.

[dcmidnight]

I have been going back and forth with GG for the last few weeks in regards to how they are calculating Scrambling and needless to say I am somewhat disappointed to see how inaccurate this stat really is on GG. There are a number of situations where they know they are doing it incorrectly but they dont have a plan to change it at this point. This also completely contradicts what they have listed on their website.

 

This issue especially shows up in regards to holes that you take penalty strokes on. It counts as an X in scrambling, which negatively affects your stats - rather than just nothing.

 

Couple examples that I sent them from rounds I played:

 

* I was on the fringe of a Par 5 in 5. Chipped on and two putted. Counted as an X in scrambling.

 

* Par 3. Hit first tee ball into the water. Hit second on the green (lying 3), two putted for a five. Counted as X in scrambling.

 

* I got up and down with a putter for par. It was shown as an X in scrambling. But if I changed it to a wedge - it counted.

 

* Hit tee ball in the water right on a Par 4. Dropped, hitting 3. Hit third on the green from @ 125 yards - lying 4. Two putted for 6. Counted as an X in scrambling.

 

I received several explanations for them, including them asking me several times what I thought it should be. That seemed to indicate they know it is an issue including:

 

"Our system registers all non-GIR and non-Par holes as missed scrambling opportunities. While that is technically true, it might make more sense not to show the scrambling statistic unless you’re on the Green in GIR+1. Does that seem to make more sense to you as well? As it is now, even if you get a quadruple bogey, it shows as a missed scrambling opportunity."

 

and

 

"At this time the logic shows an X for scrambling every time you miss the GIR and don’t par. This might not be correct for certain instances (especially cases where penalties are applied), but that’s what it is at this time.The best long-term solution would be not to surface scrambling as an X or checkmark unless you are up on the green in GIR+1."

[matchavez]

I have been going back and forth with GG for the last few weeks in regards to how they are calculating Scrambling and needless to say I am somewhat disappointed to see how inaccurate this stat really is on GG. There are a number of situations where they know they are doing it incorrectly but they dont have a plan to change it at this point. This also completely contradicts what they have listed on their website.

 

This issue especially shows up in regards to holes that you take penalty strokes on. It counts as an X in scrambling, which negatively affects your stats - rather than just nothing.

 

Couple examples that I sent them from rounds I played:

 

* I was on the fringe of a Par 5 in 5. Chipped on and two putted. Counted as an X in scrambling.

 

* Par 3. Hit first tee ball into the water. Hit second on the green (lying 3), two putted for a five. Counted as X in scrambling.

 

* I got up and down with a putter for par. It was shown as an X in scrambling. But if I changed it to a wedge - it counted.

 

* Hit tee ball in the water right on a Par 4. Dropped, hitting 3. Hit third on the green from @ 125 yards - lying 4. Two putted for 6. Counted as an X in scrambling.

 

I received several explanations for them, including them asking me several times what I thought it should be. That seemed to indicate they know it is an issue including:

 

"Our system registers all non-GIR and non-Par holes as missed scrambling opportunities. While that is technically true, it might make more sense not to show the scrambling statistic unless you’re on the Green in GIR+1. Does that seem to make more sense to you as well? As it is now, even if you get a quadruple bogey, it shows as a missed scrambling opportunity."

 

and

 

"At this time the logic shows an X for scrambling every time you miss the GIR and don’t par. This might not be correct for certain instances (especially cases where penalties are applied), but that’s what it is at this time.The best long-term solution would be not to surface scrambling as an X or checkmark unless you are up on the green in GIR+1."

 

Doesn't scrambling have an "official" definition of a 1-putt par? Wouldn't a missed scramble be only a situation where you hit the green with 1 putt to par, and miss the putt? Are they varying this to a handicap par?

[3leggedpony]

I have been going back and forth with GG for the last few weeks in regards to how they are calculating Scrambling and needless to say I am somewhat disappointed to see how inaccurate this stat really is on GG. There are a number of situations where they know they are doing it incorrectly but they dont have a plan to change it at this point. This also completely contradicts what they have listed on their website.

 

This issue especially shows up in regards to holes that you take penalty strokes on. It counts as an X in scrambling, which negatively affects your stats - rather than just nothing.

 

Couple examples that I sent them from rounds I played:

 

* I was on the fringe of a Par 5 in 5. Chipped on and two putted. Counted as an X in scrambling.

 

* Par 3. Hit first tee ball into the water. Hit second on the green (lying 3), two putted for a five. Counted as X in scrambling.

 

* I got up and down with a putter for par. It was shown as an X in scrambling. But if I changed it to a wedge - it counted.

 

* Hit tee ball in the water right on a Par 4. Dropped, hitting 3. Hit third on the green from @ 125 yards - lying 4. Two putted for 6. Counted as an X in scrambling.

 

I received several explanations for them, including them asking me several times what I thought it should be. That seemed to indicate they know it is an issue including:

 

"Our system registers all non-GIR and non-Par holes as missed scrambling opportunities. While that is technically true, it might make more sense not to show the scrambling statistic unless you’re on the Green in GIR+1. Does that seem to make more sense to you as well? As it is now, even if you get a quadruple bogey, it shows as a missed scrambling opportunity."

 

and

 

"At this time the logic shows an X for scrambling every time you miss the GIR and don’t par. This might not be correct for certain instances (especially cases where penalties are applied), but that’s what it is at this time.The best long-term solution would be not to surface scrambling as an X or checkmark unless you are up on the green in GIR+1."

 

I don't know about Game Golf's algorithms but this is the first post I've seen on Golfwrx that sounds like my typical round :)

[3_Putt_Par]

Scrambling means when you miss the green in regulation, but manage to make par. Like you miss the green with your tee shot on a par 3 but chip and one putt, or you hit your second shot on a par four into a bunker, blast out and one putt for par. Literally, it means that you scramble to make par. I think the poster above is not understanding the meaning of scrambling, since most of his examples are not only missing the green with the approach, he is missing the green, then chipping and two putting. The only instance where he actually scrambled to make par is with putter where he two putts to pars the hole. The main reason it's more than likely not considered a scramble is because of the inaccuracy of the GPS, which couldn't tell if he was on or off the green. I bet before switching clubs from the putter to wedge on his 3rd shot it was considered a GIR by GG.

 

According to GG it defines scrambling as this...

 

 

The scrambling statistic is defined as an "a chip shot or putt from less than 50 yards off the green with an additional one putt on the green resulting in par or better on a hole". Chip ins from off the green for par or better are also considered a Scramble.

[dcmidnight]

To clear up a couple things - I know what scrambling is officially defined as and more importantly what it should be. Game Golf does not even use the same definition that they post online. Read the email quote from GG. Even on a Par 4 if you chip on in 6 and two putt to make a quad on the hole, they could consider that a NO in the scrambling field - not a NULL.

 

If I hit a ball in the water on a Par 3, hit the next one on and two putt for 5 - thats not a missed scramble. Thats nothing (in regards to scrambling) - its should be a NULL in the Scrambling field - it should not even show up as a YES (check mark) or NO (an X).

 

My point is that none of those situations (save for the issue of changing back and forth between putter and wedge) should be considered a NO in scrambling - they should be NULL. By considering them as NO they are artificially depressing the Scrambling statistic - which they basically admit.

[ParHunter]

To clear up a couple things - I know what scrambling is officially defined as and more importantly what it should be. Game Golf does not even use the same definition that they post online. Read the email quote from GG. Even on a Par 4 if you chip on in 6 and two putt to make a quad on the hole, they could consider that a NO in the scrambling field - not a NULL.

 

If I hit a ball in the water on a Par 3, hit the next one on and two putt for 5 - thats not a missed scramble. Thats nothing (in regards to scrambling) - its should be a NULL in the Scrambling field - it should not even show up as a YES (check mark) or NO (an X).

 

My point is that none of those situations (save for the issue of changing back and forth between putter and wedge) should be considered a NO in scrambling - they should be NULL. By considering them as NO they are artificially depressing the Scrambling statistic - which they basically admit.

 

'should be NULL' - any chance that you are a software engineer?

But I agree with you. A duffed drive will affect your scrambling stats - even though it has nothing to do with you getting up and down for par - that chance was gone when the ball didn't make it past the ladies tee;-)

 

I think a better stat for normal handicap golfers would be 'up and downs' independent on whether you make par or not with that.

[Dave D]

is there nowhere that tells you your make %s from various distances with putting using game golf?

[North Butte]

No there is not.

 

But GG doesn't really know where the flag was on the green anyway.

[QEight]

No there is not.

 

But GG doesn't really know where the flag was on the green anyway.

 

Of course you can place the flag yourself but it is very tedious work and very difficult to be any accurate. That is why I do not use GG for putting statistics, except for number of putts.

[3leggedpony]

No there is not.

 

But GG doesn't really know where the flag was on the green anyway.

 

Of course you can place the flag yourself but it is very tedious work and very difficult to be any accurate. That is why I do not use GG for putting statistics, except for number of putts.

 

I would assume that eventually all the game trackers will include the functionality that shotscope uses whereby you tag where the hole is when you reach it to retrieve your ball and it uses that specific GPS location to back calculate the exact distances for all your shots on the hole. In game golf it will be pretty easy to do on the app. Not sure how they'd do it with the other current hardware though. Maybe V2 will have a button on the belt unit or something.

[North Butte]

Even if you tag the hole location the GPS coordinate of the putt and the GPS coordinate of the hole will each typically be off by anywhere from 2-10 feet. So you will have a lot of 12-foot putts geolocated as 7 or 16 feet or whatever and many 3-footers miscomputed as 5, 7, 10, etc.

 

Unless of course you go back and edit exact distances in by hand...which rather makes the whole exercise look silly IMO.

 

When you're, say, 140 yards from the green that sort of random 2-yard errors all average out. Putting requires another order of magnitude of precision. It is not a GPS solvable problem.

[QEight]

When you're, say, 140 yards from the green that sort of random 2-yard errors all average out. Putting requires another order of magnitude of precision. It is not a GPS solvable problem.

 

Well put(ted)!

[avrag]

No there is not.

 

But GG doesn't really know where the flag was on the green anyway.

 

Of course you can place the flag yourself but it is very tedious work and very difficult to be any accurate. That is why I do not use GG for putting statistics, except for number of putts.

 

I would assume that eventually all the game trackers will include the functionality that shotscope uses whereby you tag where the hole is when you reach it to retrieve your ball and it uses that specific GPS location to back calculate the exact distances for all your shots on the hole. In game golf it will be pretty easy to do on the app. Not sure how they'd do it with the other current hardware though. Maybe V2 will have a button on the belt unit or something.

 

This is such a logical and easy solution that I cannot understand why they did not implement it in the first place.

Just an additional "buzz" with the putter when you pick the ball out of the hole, and this final buzz per hole is not counted as another stroke, but simply lets the system know that you have now completed the hole and where it was exactly.

[avrag]

Even if you tag the hole location the GPS coordinate of the putt and the GPS coordinate of the hole will each typically be off by anywhere from 2-10 feet. So you will have a lot of 12-foot putts geolocated as 7 or 16 feet or whatever and many 3-footers miscomputed as 5, 7, 10, etc.

 

Unless of course you go back and edit exact distances in by hand...which rather makes the whole exercise look silly IMO.

 

When you're, say, 140 yards from the green that sort of random 2-yard errors all average out. Putting requires another order of magnitude of precision. It is not a GPS solvable problem.

 

It would still be better than nothing at all. According to some information I have read, the 2-yard error of GPS systems is a thing of the past anyway and it is more like one foot consistently these days.

[North Butte]

GPS systems in general perhaps. My Bushnell GPS will change its mind by a couple of yards from time to time when I've been standing still for minutes at a time.

 

If the 138 it displayed for the first two mintues was accurate to a couple feet then the 136 it changes to without having been moved an inch can't also be accurate to a couple feet, can it?

 

And GG routinely records my shot as being ftom a spot in the fairway when in fact I was four or five paces away in the middle of a bunker. My guess is the 50-cent GPS chip in a GG unit is not consistently achieving the best accuracy possible from an ideal GPS receiver.

[avrag]

GPS systems in general perhaps. My Bushnell GPS will change its mind by a couple of yards from time to time when I've been standing still for minutes at a time.

 

If the 138 it displayed for the first two mintues was accurate to a couple feet then the 136 it changes to without having been moved an inch can't also be accurate to a couple feet, can it?

 

And GG routinely records my shot as being ftom a spot in the fairway when in fact I was four or five paces away in the middle of a bunker. My guess is the 50-cent GPS chip in a GG unit is not consistently achieving the best accuracy possible from an ideal GPS receiver.

 

I have never experienced anything like this with my Garmin G6, and it also always shows exactly the same yardages as my buddies' lasers.

That is, if they actually laser the flag and not some fence post behind the green, which could take one or two minutes at times.

[North Butte]

Not making any claims about GPS vs laser for planning a shot. Just saying in my experience the precision of GPS is far from sufficient for evaluating putting performance.

 

On putts of 10-20 feet you really need to record distances to within plus or minus 4 feet or so and inside 10 feet, about half that. No car, golf or cell phone GPS I've used has consistently generated to-the-yard repeatability.

 

When it comes to golf, part of my issues with GPS may be due to the fact I walk, briskly, and seldom stand stationary for more than a few seconds. Then again that is part and parcel of how the GG recorder works when it's on my belt.

[techjunkee]

The GameGolf GPS works fine; and like all non-specific hardware (yes, including Garmin) accuracy is within +/- 3 feet. So using GPS markers to accurately calculate your putting ups and downs won't get you anywhere.

• i.e: Recording % made statistics on a 12 ft. putt vs. a 15 ft. putt would be impossible because of the +/- tolerances.
  

​I pencil in actual 1^st and 2^nd putt distance stats in feet on my scorecard for OTG strokes gained.

 

Just my 2¢. Cheers!

• 
  

[Auditor_Kevin]

Finally jumping in and have myself a Game Golf Live. Super excited! My info is in my signature so feel free to add me to your friends list.

 

Quick question since I can't read thru all 60 pages of this thread - what is the consensus best way to record penalty strokes? After the round or with one of the extra tags?

 

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Yrrdead]

Finally jumping in and have myself a Game Golf Live. Super excited! My info is in my signature so feel free to add me to your friends list.

 

Quick question since I can't read thru all 60 pages of this thread - what is the consensus best way to record penalty strokes? After the round or with one of the extra tags?

 

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

With your HI I would just do it post round. I'm in your neighborhood with close to 150rds in and I did make a penalty and a chipping tag but they didn't last (maybe 3rds). I don't use any of them anymore. Penalties are done during post round editing.

[puttin4dough]

I HAVE A NEW QUESTION!!!!

 

All caps is to show that I am breaking the current topic to ask something new. I have sifted through 90% of the pages in this topic and can not find where my question has been asked or answered.

 

Question #1.

I was editing my round from sunday last night and came across a couple issues. On hole 6 and 7, it combined all my shots as 1 hole. So I deleted all the shots that took place on the actual hole 7 but in the editing system it had all the shots listed to hole 7. SoI had to create the shots for hole 6, move the shots from 6 to hole 7, change the clubs. Then when I went back to hole 6, the green must have been on the other side of the creek at some point. On the GPS image the hole is in the proper place but when I selected my putter was on the green, it kept moving the location of the shot to back on the other side of the creek. When I left it in it's proper place, it then would count the puts. Same for hole 7.

 

The second issue I have was at some point, hole #8 must have been a par 4, but is now a par 5. In the GG system it has it listed as a par4, so when I put on there that I made a par, it shows me as making a +1. How do I correct the actual Par # for a hole?

 

 

Any help would be appreciated. I have the GG classic.

 

If you want to actually look at the round and the shots to get a better Idea, my tag is btownbb8807. I modified hole #8 to 4 shots so that it showed I got the GIR and 2 putted and that my club distances were still correct.

[North Butte]

If there is a mapping issue where certain spots on the course are being mis-read by Game Golf as being on another hole or a feature is in the wrong place, just send GG Support an E-mail and they will remap the course for you. Usually quite quickly.

 

They do these maps by having someone manually look at the satellite image and mark out where everything is. If you point out a problem to them, they go back and have someone take a more careful look and/or use a more up-to-date satellite image.

 

Same deal with the par of the hole changing, they can fix that if you contact GG Support.

[puttin4dough]

If there is a mapping issue where certain spots on the course are being mis-read by Game Golf as being on another hole or a feature is in the wrong place, just send GG Support an E-mail and they will remap the course for you. Usually quite quickly.

 

They do these maps by having someone manually look at the satellite image and mark out where everything is. If you point out a problem to them, they go back and have someone take a more careful look and/or use a more up-to-date satellite image.

 

Same deal with the par of the hole changing, they can fix that if you contact GG Support.

 

thank you for the information. I will send them an email

[dciccoritti]

Well I've finally had a couple of tags break on me. The head breaks off and the screw-in portion is just stuck in the grip. Impossible to take out.

 

Think I'd rather have a the belt device with a scroll wheel and a button. Scroll to club selection and press button. Something digital. Not sure I like these "tags" on my clubs.

[joergensen]

Think I'd rather have a the belt device with a scroll wheel and a button. Scroll to club selection and press button. Something digital. Not sure I like these "tags" on my clubs.

 

How about a wrist device, instead of a belt device? Pebble Time does exactly this with Game Golf. Shows you distances, too, like any GPS watch.

[puttin4dough]

If there is a mapping issue where certain spots on the course are being mis-read by Game Golf as being on another hole or a feature is in the wrong place, just send GG Support an E-mail and they will remap the course for you. Usually quite quickly.

 

They do these maps by having someone manually look at the satellite image and mark out where everything is. If you point out a problem to them, they go back and have someone take a more careful look and/or use a more up-to-date satellite image.

 

Same deal with the par of the hole changing, they can fix that if you contact GG Support.

 

I contacted them Friday morning and they had it fixed before I went and played the same course Friday night. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

[300_Straight]

I have the free app and it's great. I have to enter every stroke and every club each time, but it's been great so far. Tells you distances that match the course fairway markings and it's really easy to use. So far, all of the courses I've played have been in the system. I don't always use it but most of the time I do.

[Daniel Eason]

Thinking of getting one (or a similar equivilant).

 

Is GG the best on the market? Is anyone actually using the stats to your benefit or is it just a bit of a gimmick and wears off after a while?

[AndrewKaleta]

I have had the original GameGolf for 2 years now so it doesn't do live stats like the new version or any of the new competitors but it is still very good. It's beneficial as long as you want it to be. I use it to look back at my round after it's done and I am able to go back hole by hole and see what I did well that day and what I did poorly. I would assume that most people don't really go into the same depth that I do, so the benefit of that would be different for everybody.

 

Another good thing is after a few rounds, you start to see how far you actually hit the ball. It gives you an average, so lets say my 9 iron is supposed to be my 140 club, but in reality I'm only hitting it 134 on average, those new numbers could come into play depending on the hole. Once again though, it's only a benefit if you choose to use it.

 

Lastly but arguably my favorite part of GameGolf came in the new update to the software. After a certain amount of rounds, there's an "Insights" tab that shows you a Strokes Gained chart that you can compare to Scratch, 5, 10, 15, 20, and 25 handicaps. So mine shows that I lose 1.15 strokes off the tee, gain 0.9 strokes on approach, lose 1.84 strokes on short game, and 2.26 strokes on putting compared to the average scratch golfer. Below the chart, it shows you Smart Tips in order to improve those numbers so you can use that information to change your practice approach.

 

Some people will say that it's a gimmick and choose not to use the information, but I've always been a numbers guy and enjoy having something that is able to track all of this so that I don't have to do it manually. Hope this helps.