So what do you look for in a course that makes it your personal top 10 list?

I was reading about the top 10 in each state and I'm sure there would be agreements and disagreements about certain courses. I am just wondering what do you look for that makes a course great, in your personal opinion?

I have a friend that all he cares about are the greens. We could play a lousy golf course, but it the greens are in great shape, he thinks that makes a great course.

I personally look at the layout. Good mix of long holes and short holes, do I have to hit driver off every hole? Does the course give me options or does it dictate the way I have to play it? I like some decent scenery, feel like outdoors not golfing in a mall. Etc.

I like great conditioned fast greens as much as anybody, but it is not the most important thing to me.

Anyway that is some of the things I look for. Curious as to what you guys/girls think.

Layout, i.e. options on how to play the hole while still making you hit all the shots and hit all your clubs. After the round I like to look at how easy it is to remember each hole. The harder it is to do so the less I like the course usually.

To be a top 10 good greens are a given. Not just condition, but undulating.

I brought 14 clubs with me and I want a course that requires I use all of them. I am not a big fan of par 3's over 200 yards, but I do like the idea of a driveable par 4. I like risk reward options and I like a course with elevation changes.

Phred

If we're talking strictly on-course stuff, undulating, well-kept greens are, as mentioned above, essential. I also like a lot of elevation changes, and I definitely prefer a links style. I don't mind some tree-lined holes, but they'd better be fully tree-lined with tall trees, not a few small trees. Bunkers are fun, but only if they have a variety of shapes and actually come into play. I like target golf too--forced carries and hazards between the fairways and greens keeps it interesting for me. Nothing worse than a flat, open, 350 yard par 4.

1) It has to be tough to score.
2) The greens need to roll true, even if they are undulating or tricky to read.
3) Make me hit every club, but give me options - risk reward holes are important.
4) I want to play golf, not hear traffic or airplanes overhead.
5) Views and elevation changes - subtle or overt, make me think about approach shots and how to approach the greens/pins.
6) No blind tee shots. I want to see what I need to do, even if I cannot see my ball actually land in the fairway, but don't make me hit up and down a hill, so I have no idea what is coming up.

Needs to be fun...if a course is death march WTF are trying to do? - Does Pete Dye read this??


[size="3"][color="#000000"]Character is huge, I don’t want to play army golf marching up and down between the prior and next holes…[/color][/size]

[size="3"][color="#000000"]I hate when course are have bigger penalty for missing the fairway by 2 yards then there is by missing by 20yards. [/color][/size]

[size="3"][color="#000000"]Consistent quality greens. I really get frustrated by slow ones. I seldom play any muni anymore just because the green quality is so poor. [/color][/size]

[color="#000000"][size="3"]Pace of play, some courses toss a 210 par 3 on the 3[/size][sup][size="2"]rd[/size][/sup][size="3"] hole and bang you have a huge delay right off the get go….a designer can help pace of play with the layout. [/size][/color]

In good shape. Some doglegs, both left and right, cause I can hit all the shots [size=4] . A couple holes 300 yds or less, and a couple at least 420 plus. As few houses as possible. True rolling greens. Elevation changes. Good scenery. [/size]

The previous posts are really wise & thoughtful.

I could never design a course, so I'll have to do some reverse engineering to answer the question.

My favourite courses are Pacific Dunes, Pebble Beach, Wine Valley & Riviera.

Some of their characteristics are:

- generous landing areas off the tee (on the longer holes)

- greens large enough for different hole locations (maybe not Pebble Beach)

- firm fairways (in the summer, at least)

- long & challenging par fours (#4 Pacific, #8 & #9 Pebble Beach, #5 Wine Valley, #12 Riviera, with a few short & quirky ones ones
(#6 & #16 Pacific Dunes, #10 Riviera, #2 Wine Valley)

- varied par threes (#7 Pebble, #4 & #6 Riviera, #11 Pacific Dunes)

- careful use of doglegs, allowing different angles into greens

- strategic & judicious bunkering

- seasonal winds that can influence play (even Riviera which often has a westerly breeze)

- walkable

Why do people hate 'blind' shots? I mean it's only really 'blind' the first time play it.

The entire experience. It all counts....from the moment I pull into the drive, to the moment I leave. Service, layout, conditions, facilities, everything.

As far as the course.....it has to be interesting and give you options. We have a course near us that has hosted nationwide/nike/web.com events. Always makes the best area courses list...I'm not a fan. For example, par 5 has a marshland about 230 out with a 330 carry. That's stupid.

[quote name='thekru' timestamp='1421334873' post='10750887']
Why do people hate 'blind' shots? I mean it's only really 'blind' the first time play it.
[/quote]

Because a lot of the time, that is the only time they will play it.

Plus, it can have an influence as to whether or not a person does go back if it's an option.

[quote name='thekru' timestamp='1421334873' post='10750887']
Why do people hate 'blind' shots? I mean it's only really 'blind' the first time play it.
[/quote]
Because I want to know what is happening in front of me! And I like to have an idea where my ball lands, as well as what trouble lies ahead.

Good thread because I love different courses and have been so fortunate in my career to have played a good number of great ones.

1. Like the second poster said, if you can remember every hole clearly after the round, it was a great track. If you can't, there were too many holes that were too similar to each other and just blended together.

2. Great assortment of holes from short to long within each par category. 130 to 230 on 3's, 290 to 470 on 4's, 485 to 600 on 5's. And never two of the same or close to the same length holes back to back. Hate those tour courses that finish with back to back to back 4's each over 475.

3. Great framing of the hole both from the tee and into the greens. Bunkering should be slightly to dramatically sculpted, raised. Some elevation changes on the holes too. But no side slopes on fwys to kick balls into the rough.

4. Eye candy as in oceans, lakes, streams, mountains, vistas, great views

5. Six par 3's, six par 4's and six par 5's. Really get tired of this four 3's and four 5's and ten 4's.

6. Back to back 3's or 5's is ok but never more than three 4's in a row unless they really vary in length and design

7. Gentle undulating greens are ok but none of this buried elephants green design and no domed greens which allow you to land a ball 10' onto a green only to see it trickle off and end up 30 yds from the green. A single false front or false side is ok, but domed firm fast greens are BS

8. A little to a lot of history helps too.

9. Of course when there is not a blade of grass out of place, that's pretty special too

10. No players in front of you for at least two holes and none behind you for at least two holes. Love to play fast but at times I like to drop a few balls and enjoy a particular shot again and again.

11. No giant distances between greens and tees so if you want to hoof it, you can without killing yourself

12. No blind tee shots or blind approach shots into greens - I want to see where the ball is supposed to land off the tee and I want to see the flag

13. Brown fescue tufting up off the upper lips of the fairway bunkers

14. Upper edges of green side bunkers being sharp cut into the green with no "froghair" or fringe between the bunker and putting surface (ala Royal Melbourne)

15. Freshly re-done revetting of the stacked sod faces of deep bunkers - (fortunate to play Royal Lytham 5 months before the Open when they had just finished re doing all the sod faces of the bunkers and it was gorgeous)

I'm a conditions guy first and foremost. Sure, I love great layouts, challenging, views and everything else but if you put me on a boring course that is in tip top shape, I'm gonna have a great time.

[quote name='ryu123' timestamp='1421331866' post='10750589']
The previous posts are really wise & thoughtful.

I could never design a course, so I'll have to do some reverse engineering to answer the question.

My favourite courses are Pacific Dunes, Pebble Beach, Wine Valley & Riviera.

Some of their characteristics are:

- generous landing areas off the tee (on the longer holes)

- greens large enough for different hole locations (maybe not Pebble Beach)

- firm fairways (in the summer, at least)

- long & challenging par fours (#4 Pacific, #8 & #9 Pebble Beach, #5 Wine Valley, #12 Riviera, with a few short & quirky ones ones
(#6 & #16 Pacific Dunes, #10 Riviera, #2 Wine Valley)

- varied par threes (#7 Pebble, #4 & #6 Riviera, #11 Pacific Dunes)

- careful use of doglegs, allowing different angles into greens

- strategic & judicious bunkering

- seasonal winds that can influence play (even Riviera which often has a westerly breeze)

- walkable
[/quote]

This is the perfect post. Very much what I would say too.

I prefer to end on a great par 5 for 18 (Wine Valley) for dramatic finishes. Not a huge fan of incredibly long par 4s to close, since it usually removes short hitters from making a birdie to finish. I especially appreciate large driving areas and unimpeded tee lines, so it's playable for everyone.

I don't think all the green complexes should be hokey and overly sloped, but there I think it's awesome when there is a unique green on the course (so long as it roughly fits the character of the course). Wine Valley #7 is a great example of this.

Hate courses where the only defenses are trees. It almost always has an impact on turf quality and the course often lacks character beyond being tree lined. Large, pinnacle or signature trees that serve as obvious visual deterrents are good.

I don't even care if a course lets you hit all of the clubs in your bag, but I appreciate it as an option (shorter clubs playing for position, etc). I think courses who stretch out yardage so they force to you hit a different iron into the green on 9 different holes is boring. Would much rather let the course design rather than yardage dictate that.

1. Walking at least permitted. Even better if encouraged.

2. Different shot and club required for all par 3s. Ideally one short par 3, one long one, and two in between.

3. On par 5s, force me to think and make a decision. Golf is a thinking man's game, so let me think and allow me to have a choice -- specifically, do not take driver out of my hands on a par 5.

4. Have some type of system, enforcement, culture, or some combination of the above so that pace of play is never a concern.

5. Reign in "conditioning" and don't aspire to resemble Augusta National during The Masters. Even Augusta National only looks that way for a couple weeks out of the year, and it is year-long process to achieve that look only for a short time.

Couple points I forgot.

- Include range balls with the greens fee. Nickle and diming me for range balls after I've forked over a C note or somewhat more for greens fees is just silly.

- Encourage and support junior golf, whether it is through programs, special pricing, whatever, but somehow encourage the next generation of players to play and develop.

#1 for me is always conditioning. Call me a snob, but if the course is extremely well conditioned it will always score more points for me

#2 is the scenery. Courses surrounded by houses are not very appealing to me. I want to feel like I'm getting away, not hanging out in someone's back yard.

#3 is the varying difficulty and character of the holes, especially the par 3's and par 5's. This plays in to how memorable a course is for me. I don't want to hit a 7-8 iron on every par 3, and I'd love to have a chance to have a couple risk/reward shots on par 5's.

Oh, and a cute cart girl never hurts.

If I was to put a course in the top 10, it must be memorable from the first steps of of the car. I understand all of the talk about greens and conditions but if either of those are bad we would never even be discussing if it is in the top 10.
I think it is the land and the scenic beauty coupled with a great facility to the memorability of the holes but especially the Par 3's and Par 5's.
Pebble Beach would not be Pebble Beach if we put it somewhere else.
Location+Condition+Facility+Unique Holes=Greatness

For me, just to be in the discussion the course has to have extraordinary conditioning...not necessarily American soft parkland, as great links courses have equal (but different) conditioning approaches. I want the ball to lie, and the course to play, the way the designer intended...not in some variation brought about by mixed conditions.

From there--
1) Absolute classic layout and design--natural only, with a flow consistent with the land. If that is done, it doesn't matter much if the course is 100 years or 100 weeks old--it will seem as though it has been there always...Design matched to the hole strategy in every case--no exception

2) Variety of holes--long/short 3's and 4's. Challenge all parts of the game. Shotmaker's course

3) Memorable--can include great vistas, etc, but this is secondary. I want to "feel" the architect throughout the round. I want to be playing against his strategy/challenge. Mackenzie, C/C, Doak, Ross, etc, etc ...I enjoy seeing the personality come through...and the personality has to blend with the land.

4) Overall experience--a great "course" to me must have the support to allow the greatness to come through...so exceptional staff, ownership commitment, pace of play management, and so on

5) All the above can be summed up as "enjoyable". I can be at par or at 20 over, and it will make NO difference if the above are in place

I want really good greens. They can be big an undulating or basically small and flat, I just want them to roll well. Conditioning on the rest of the course can be a bit scruffy and I'm OK with that. Obviously don't want to play off dirt or weeds all the way around, but it doesn't have to be "Augusta nice".

Consistent sand in the bunkers. If they're hard packed with little sand, fine. Just have them all be that way.

Like everyone else, a nice, mixed variety of long and short holes, and some that move both left and right. Really like the risk/reward short par four that gives you options how to play.

this is a little tough, because i think one of the things that truly makes a course great is something people who play it once would never notice. and that's a course that can play much differently day to day. be it variable speed and direction of the wind, pin placements that benefit different shots off the tee, or different ways to play a hole from tee to green....the replay-ability of a course i think is the best testament to the quality of the design.

"target golf" is fine if you have some variable wind conditions, tee box placements, or something else that changes it up from day to day.