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Jimmy Ballard - The Connected Golf Swing

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  • AyersjjAyersjj Advanced Members Posts: 117 ✭✭
    Ayersjj wrote:


    From Ballard himself




    I remember playing w Bobby Walzel 1981 about his backswing the day before the Memorial tournament 1981. On # 4 Scioto par three he hit 5 shots a little right. Watching struggle I asked him what he’s wirking on and he said he felt shut going back. That stuck in my head obviously bc when I hear Rocco say the same thing it makes me wonder wtf. So if unlook at pictures I posted of Sutton Nicklaus Peete Price they all look as if they are a bit shut but no really based in posture. They have a perfect triangle and the continuation and fold of right arm up is classic Ballard. Walzel went into lead the Memorial the next day getting up and down all over the place w 67. Really makes me wonder if feeling a bit shut is ideal bc it places u in a strong position without fanning the club open. Rocco disnt like the feeling and left forwhatecer rwason back to Smith who seems ok with the roll around takeaway.



    Just a hunch
  • blehnhardblehnhard Over The Hill & Almost Down The Other Side Advanced Members Posts: 486 ✭✭
    Lots of modern players have the clubface somewhat "toe down" at P3 and beyond. Clubshaft "outside" the hands. Some get it a little "toe down" at top but some are still a little "shut" there. Brooks K and Nick Price certainly come to mind.
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Advanced Members Posts: 348 ✭✭
    edited March 4
    There’s a big difference between Miller Barber, Nicklaus and Price....Miller clearly had his right arm and elbow riding higher than the others. You can take it back shut without being disconnected in your right arm, but that was Millers natural move and he did it well,I just think that is going to be hard thing to groove and repeat, especially under pressure. Price, Nicklaus and Rocco aren’t disconnected in their right arms going back.
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
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    Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
    Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
    Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
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    Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
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  • sbarksbark Advanced Members Posts: 224
    Power generation from legs Ballard method. 60 yrs old, used to be fair, bad knees as in no acl's, but lived with that for 25 yrs



    I've caught the term cross lateral weight transfer...from right heel on backswing fwd to left toes as rear knee driven at target line.



    Without the little sit, or roll out of left knee , what is the feel in getting the power from a lead leg straightening

    The little Snead squat, bounce seems to make it easier, and more effective at power generation effect of lead leg going vertical



    Seems restricted as I attempt to drive knee and fire right side....I can either go right to a straight knee, onto toes

    Or turn right side after pushing off into a still somewhat flexed knee



    What's the feel I'm working toward...and the power from it

    Thanks in advance for thoughts



  • ggproggpro Advanced Members Posts: 537 ✭✭
    When I first started working with Jimmy in '87 he told me he really liked Miller's swing, talked about how he set his right elbow high at address similar to Nicklaus.
  • LefthookLefthook Golf nerd Advanced Members Posts: 3,232 ✭✭


    There are many different ways to skin a cat, but all the guys out there that regularly get the job done do great things at some point in there golf swing and it usually is through the ball and with a full body release. You can say anything you like about about Jim Furyk's golf swing, but he has one of the best releases through impact of anyone.








    Jason Dufner is another body releaser. One of my favorites from impact to finish.



    [media]



    It's a feast reading your posts in this thread 97'.
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Advanced Members Posts: 348 ✭✭
    ggpro wrote:


    When I first started working with Jimmy in '87 he told me he really liked Miller's swing, talked about how he set his right elbow high at address similar to Nicklaus.




    I’ve heard him say that too. I just think it’s a tough think to suddenly add to your swing, for Miller Barber he always had it.
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
    Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
    Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
    Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
    Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
    Putter:
    TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Advanced Members Posts: 348 ✭✭
    Lefthook wrote:



    There are many different ways to skin a cat, but all the guys out there that regularly get the job done do great things at some point in there golf swing and it usually is through the ball and with a full body release. You can say anything you like about about Jim Furyk's golf swing, but he has one of the best releases through impact of anyone.








    Jason Dufner is another body releaser. One of my favorites from impact to finish.



    [media]



    It's a feast reading your posts in this thread 97'.




    I played the Golden Bear Tour with Duff before he made it on the big tour. Great ball striker, he learned to play by reading Hogan’s book The Five Modern Fundamentals. If he could putt, he’d be winning a lot.
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
    Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
    Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
    Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
    Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
    Putter:
    TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • Bingo1976Bingo1976 Advanced Members Posts: 2,477 ✭✭
    Love this thread. I have always had issues with taking the club inside (probably from being a junior in the 80s playing with heavy clubs, or just LOFT).



    I was going through major issues with my pitching, and my coach got me to use what I understand to be effectively the connected swing in the OP. The feel that he gave me was that my right elbow is being pulled up my side rather than having it rotating away if that makes sense?



    Unfortunate, a relocation at work means that my play and practice time is almost zero at the moment, but I do want to try and rebuild my swing when circumstances allow.
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  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Advanced Members Posts: 348 ✭✭
    edited March 7
    Ayersjj wrote:


    Sutton Peete Barber Nicklaus all similar imo

    Club is out in front of chest and looks hooded but square to shoulder address position

    JB loved Nicklaus' and Nick Prices backswings




    JJ, Ballard definitely wants the club pointed at center with the right arm above the left arm at the half-way back position and these are all great examples, but Miller Barber's is more exaggerated than the rest, he does make a great move at the top to slot the club, however, I personally think that what he does takes a little more timing and is harder to replicate unless it's your natural move. Miller Barber's swing was an exaggerated version of Nicklaus or I should say; Nicklaus's swing was a watered down version of Miller Barber's swing..... I think Nicklaus's swing would be more natural and easier to copy than Miller Barber's swing, it's just too hard to slot the club consistently when the right arm rides up so high in the backswing and he makes a great move to slot the club without it going across the line like it looks like it's going to be if you stopped his swing 3/4 of the way back. I have heard JB talk about how great Miller Barber's swing was many times, and I do agree, but I also think it's a hard one to time without GREAT lower body action in the transition.



    https://www.youtube....h?v=VQ2zf4X6PIc



    What Miller Barber did maybe better than anyone I have ever seen is this move JB talks about with the legs and lower body....
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
    Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
    Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
    Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
    Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
    Putter:
    TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • AyersjjAyersjj Advanced Members Posts: 117 ✭✭

    Ayersjj wrote:


    Sutton Peete Barber Nicklaus all similar imo

    Club is out in front of chest and looks hooded but square to shoulder address position

    JB loved Nicklaus' and Nick Prices backswings




    JJ, Ballard definitely wants the club pointed at center with the right arm above the left arm at the half-way back position and these are all great examples, but Miller Barber's is more exaggerated than the rest, he does make a great move at the top to slot the club, however, I personally think that what he does takes a little more timing and is harder to replicate unless it's your natural move. Miller Barber's swing was an exaggerated version of Nicklaus or I should say; Nicklaus's swing was a watered down version of Miller Barber's swing..... I think Nicklaus's swing would be more natural and easier to copy than Miller Barber's swing, it's just too hard to slot the club consistently when the right arm rides up so high in the backswing and he makes a great move to slot the club without it going across the line like it looks like it's going to be if you stopped his swing 3/4 of the way back. I have heard JB talk about how great Miller Barber's swing was many times, and I do agree, but I also think it's a hard one to time without GREAT lower body action in the transition.



    [url="



    What Miller Barber did maybe better than anyone I have ever seen is this move JB talks about with the legs and lower body....




    Being that I do not roll the left forarm I still dont feel asif I am getting in the same position each time unfortunately completing backswing. Once I get there, I might quit flipping at the bottom of arc and play tournys again. Until then its army golf.
  • Puttersaurus RexPuttersaurus Rex one swing at a time Advanced Members Posts: 489 ✭✭
    I was telling my brother how these "Jimmy Ballard" tips are helping me straighten out my swing.



    "Jimmy Ballard, like your first set of irons?!" Yes, I forgot that my first set of irons were oversized "JBI's". Funny how I have come full circle.



    Thanks for all of the contributions to this thread!
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  • AyersjjAyersjj Advanced Members Posts: 117 ✭✭
    Sutton
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Advanced Members Posts: 348 ✭✭
    edited March 9
    I have something for you guys that I think you are going to really enjoy, it's a video that Jimmy Ballard gave me a DVD copy of and it's from the 1998 PGA Teaching Summit where JB debates with Jim Flick the arm swing versus the big muscle swing.



    Right now I am in the process of having it converted to MP4 so I can upload it to my YouTube channel and when I do I will post the link here, but it's REALLY, REALLY good.
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
    Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
    Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
    Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
    Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
    Putter:
    TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • bluedotbluedot Advanced Members Posts: 3,336 ✭✭


    I have something for you guys that I think you are going to really enjoy, it's a video that Jimmy Ballard gave me a DVD copy of and it's from the 1998 PGA Teaching Summit where JB debates with Jim Flick the arm swing versus the big muscle swing.



    Right now I am in the process of having it converted to MP4 so I can upload it to my YouTube channel and when I do I will post the link here, but it's REALLY, REALLY good.




    Looking forward to it; let us know.
  • AyersjjAyersjj Advanced Members Posts: 117 ✭✭


    I have something for you guys that I think you are going to really enjoy, it's a video that Jimmy Ballard gave me a DVD copy of and it's from the 1998 PGA Teaching Summit where JB debates with Jim Flick the arm swing versus the big muscle swing.



    Right now I am in the process of having it converted to MP4 so I can upload it to my YouTube channel and when I do I will post the link here, but it's REALLY, REALLY good.




    Awesome debate!!!!

    Thx DJ
  • ggproggpro Advanced Members Posts: 537 ✭✭
    Ayersjj wrote:



    I have something for you guys that I think you are going to really enjoy, it's a video that Jimmy Ballard gave me a DVD copy of and it's from the 1998 PGA Teaching Summit where JB debates with Jim Flick the arm swing versus the big muscle swing.



    Right now I am in the process of having it converted to MP4 so I can upload it to my YouTube channel and when I do I will post the link here, but it's REALLY, REALLY good.
    ...



    Awesome debate!!!!

    Thx DJ




    That would be awesome to see that...would also like to see Jimmy's presentation at MIT
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Advanced Members Posts: 348 ✭✭
    edited March 10
    Here is the video, nothing like this video has ever been on YouTube. There are swings of some of Jimmy's students in the video including Hal Sutton, Curtis Strange and Jim Colbert. The video is 45 minutes total time, but well worth watching. This video is packed full of great info, so Enjoy!



    https://youtu.be/VAgvfLLbE5c
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
    Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
    Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
    Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
    Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
    Putter:
    TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Advanced Members Posts: 348 ✭✭
    edited March 10
    Here is the video of Jimmy Ballard debating with Jim Flick of the body swinging the club versus the arms and the hands. There are swings of some of Jimmy's students in the video including Hal Sutton, Curtis Strange and Jim Colbert. The video is 46 minutes total time, and packed full of great info, enjoy!



    https://youtu.be/VAgvfLLbE5c
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
    Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
    Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
    Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
    Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
    Putter:
    TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • AyersjjAyersjj Advanced Members Posts: 117 ✭✭


    Here is the video, nothing like this video has ever been on YouTube. There are swings of some of Jimmy's students in the video including Hal Sutton, Curtis Strange and Jim Colbert. The video is 45 minutes total time, but well worth watching. This video is packed full of great info, so enjoy!



    ***NOTE*** The video plays twice, I am trying to edit it on YouTube so it only plays once; the video is 46:30 long, NOT 1:33 like it says.



    [url="




    One of the best videos ever. Thanks Man !!
  • garytgaryt Advanced Members Posts: 254
    Great video, Jimmy was hilarious. I thought Flick was condescending at times. I had heard that this had gotten way more contentious than it did. It did seem to be more of a hit job on Jimmy's swing than just a comparison of the two.
  • dodgerdodger Advanced Members Posts: 391 ✭✭
    Great video. Really clears up misconceptions about JB s teaching.
  • flatnstuckflatnstuck Advanced Members Posts: 363 ✭✭
    edited March 10
    I thought it enlightening that Flick admitted the problem with his instruction was that it often lacked power to play the game at a high level whereas Ballard believed his methodology was good to go for all levels.
  • torbilltorbill Advanced Members Posts: 262 ✭✭
    edited March 11
    I remember during the early 1980s, when I first became aware of Ballard, the PGA teaching establishment hung the "he teaches a sway" on him, and I don't know that they ever got entirely away from it, hence I don't think that Ballard ever got entirely out from under it.



    One thread through that video reinforces what, to my mind, was likely going on between the PGA and Ballard. As I watched it sort made me imagine Ballard being on the stand, the PGA grilling him, he providing convincing arguments, and in the end it making no difference to them, becausethe jury had already reached its conclusion: "We (grudgingly) cannot deny your success with tour professionals (we would if we could), but swaying or whatever it is that you want to call it - OK, a coil if it pleases you - is too complex for anybody but a pro, so the establishment will carry on, taking in fees from the public, using conventional methods. It's what we do. And we aren't happy that you are rocking the boat.". Perhaps I am reading too much into the exchange, but what I do know is that once the system tars with a perception, once a belief system takes hold, you never get entirely past it, really. Regardless of the facts...



    Another thread, for me, was the hands versus body debate, and that to me was more of a Ballard versus Flick individual thing that didn't rock thet boat.



    All speculation on my part...
  • dj*dj* Members Posts: 71 ✭✭
    Great video.
  • JDFishJDFish Pickerington, OhioAdvanced Members Posts: 799 ✭✭


    Here is the video of Jimmy Ballard debating with Jim Flick of the body swinging the club versus the arms and the hands. There are swings of some of Jimmy's students in the video including Hal Sutton, Curtis Strange and Jim Colbert. The video is 46 minutes total time, and packed full of great info, enjoy!



    https://youtu.be/VAgvfLLbE5c




    Great video. Informative and entertaining. I don't know if Flick didn't really understand what JB teaches and is that obtuse or if he was being ridiculously condescending.
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  • garytgaryt Advanced Members Posts: 254
    JDFish wrote:



    Here is the video of Jimmy Ballard debating with Jim Flick of the body swinging the club versus the arms and the hands. There are swings of some of Jimmy's students in the video including Hal Sutton, Curtis Strange and Jim Colbert. The video is 46 minutes total time, and packed full of great info, enjoy!



    https://youtu.be/VAgvfLLbE5c




    Great video. Informative and entertaining. I don't know if Flick didn't really understand what JB teaches and is that obtuse or if he was being ridiculously condescending.




    I vote for condescending. There's a point where Ballard makes a great point and even the audience laughs and Flick says "What a character". I got the impression you could have substituted a-hole for "character" and been pretty accurate of what Flick was thinking.
  • naval2006naval2006 Advanced Members Posts: 940 ✭✭
    Outstanding video that you share Speedster. About one of the few real teaching gems I've seen on Youtube. It was like a fight of the titans or match of the century kind of stuff. True, Jim Flick sounds too condescending, and JB looks like he's standing trial without a lawyer. Thanks a lot for sharing.
  • dodgerdodger Advanced Members Posts: 391 ✭✭
    Not trying to pick on Flick, but it is fascinating that Ballard's basic methodology has not changed in 50 plus years while Flick's has gone from square to square, left side dominant to Ernest Jones. My favorite moment is Jimmy observing 99 percent of golfers are too under in the swing. Brilliant stuff
  • ggproggpro Advanced Members Posts: 537 ✭✭
    torbill wrote:


    I remember during the early 1980s, when I first became aware of Ballard, the PGA teaching establishment hung the "he teaches a sway" on him, and I don't know that they ever got entirely away from it, hence I don't think that Ballard ever got entirely out from under it.



    One thread through that video reinforces what, to my mind, was likely going on between the PGA and Ballard. As I watched it sort made me imagine Ballard being on the stand, the PGA grilling him, he providing convincing arguments, and in the end it making no difference to them, becausethe jury had already reached its conclusion: "We (grudgingly) cannot deny your success with tour professionals (we would if we could), but swaying or whatever it is that you want to call it - OK, a coil if it pleases you - is too complex for anybody but a pro, so the establishment will carry on, taking in fees from the public, using conventional methods. It's what we do. And we aren't happy that you are rocking the boat.". Perhaps I am reading too much into the exchange, but what I do know is that once the system tars with a perception, once a belief system takes hold, you never get entirely past it, really. Regardless of the facts...



    Another thread, for me, was the hands versus body debate, and that to me was more of a Ballard versus Flick individual thing that didn't rock thet boat.



    All speculation on my part...






    Not speculation, actually the most lucid analysis of Jimmy's life and teaching I have ever heard. You are spot on my friend!
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Advanced Members Posts: 348 ✭✭
    edited March 11
    Flick and Toski were part of the PGA and establishment, they were all the exact opposite of JB who rejected the establishment. JB has never changed his swing philosophy and had a lot of success along the way... 11 major championships under his stable of players. This brought a lot of jealousy from the establishment who all changed their philosophy often.



    This video shows a few things; one being that JB knows his philosophy inside and out, he has wit and he is s great communicator. Nothing against Flick, but he never taught Jack during his true playing years so having a Nicklaus/Flick school really doesn’t mean squat outside of marketing.
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
    Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
    Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
    Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
    Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
    Putter:
    TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • JedaigekiJedaigeki Advanced Members Posts: 264 ✭✭


    Here is the video of Jimmy Ballard debating with Jim Flick of the body swinging the club versus the arms and the hands. There are swings of some of Jimmy's students in the video including Hal Sutton, Curtis Strange and Jim Colbert. The video is 46 minutes total time, and packed full of great info, enjoy!



    https://youtu.be/VAgvfLLbE5c




    Thanks so much for this, I know what I'll be watching tonight.
  • JDFishJDFish Pickerington, OhioAdvanced Members Posts: 799 ✭✭
    edited March 12


    Work on left arm connection with both elbows pointed down the entire swing and you will be a lot more consistent.



    Practice with the Connector on and the Perfect Practice Glove and then keep grooving these things below without looking outside of these fundamentals that JB teaches and I promise you will start playing well.




    Thanks for another trainer recommendation - I ordered the Connector and Practice Glove last week (still waiting for shipping info) and I'm anxious to use these.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Callaway Epic 9.0 Fujikura Atmos Black TS 6S
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    Callaway XR 5 wood
    Titleist 913H 21* hybrid
    Ping i200 Nippon N.S.Pro Modus3 Tour 105S - 4-UW
    Titleist Vokey SM6 54* and 58* S200
    Evnroll ER8 33"
  • LowAndLeft32LowAndLeft32 Members Posts: 17 ✭✭
    Is JB currently working with any tour pros? As far as I know, Rocco was the last one. Also, which of today's tour players as a swing that most closely matches JBs teaching? I know some have mentioned Strenick. But, are there any others? Thanks.
  • AyersjjAyersjj Advanced Members Posts: 117 ✭✭
    edited March 12


    Is JB currently working with any tour pros? As far as I know, Rocco was the last one. Also, which of today's tour players as a swing that most closely matches JBs teaching? I know some have mentioned Strenick. But, are there any others? Thanks.




    I know one guy that said shoot me if I ever leave JB. If u watched the debate Flick alluded to Mark Omeara dropping his hands. Jimmy made it clear it might of been a feeling but if Omeara drops his hands arms hes done. Look at Suttons video pretty obviius imo he should go get some help from JB again.

    https://www.golfchannel.com/video/hal-sutton-swing-changes-comeback-pga-tour-champions
  • LowAndLeft32LowAndLeft32 Members Posts: 17 ✭✭
    It would be great if people could share their improvements using Ballard's method. I.E. went from this hdcp to this lower hdcp. Thanks.
  • AyersjjAyersjj Advanced Members Posts: 117 ✭✭


    Flick and Toski were part of the PGA and establishment, they were all the exact opposite of JB who rejected the establishment. JB has never changed his swing philosophy and had a lot of success along the way... 11 major championships under his stable of players. This brought a lot of jealousy from the establishment who all changed their philosophy often.



    This video shows a few things; one being that JB knows his philosophy inside and out, he has wit and he is s great communicator. Nothing against Flick, but he never taught Jack during his true playing years so having a Nicklaus/Flick school really doesn’t mean squat outside of marketing.




    DJ

    Wonder what JB would say about Suttons analysis. JB always told me if I hangbak it will go left. The harder I fire the right from ground up the straighter it will go. Looking at Sutton slow mo to me looks like dead legs. I wonder if his feels are fooling him. Gotta give him credit to give it a go again @60 tho!



    Thoughts?

    https://www.golfchannel.com/video/hal-sutton-swing-changes-comeback-pga-tour-champions

  • JDFishJDFish Pickerington, OhioAdvanced Members Posts: 799 ✭✭


    It would be great if people could share their improvements using Ballard's method. I.E. went from this hdcp to this lower hdcp. Thanks.




    I am 53 years old. I was a 8.4 index (fluctuating between 7 and 8.6 over the course of a few years) before I took a few lessons last January and February to learn the JB method. My season was a bit up and down but my season ended at a 6.6 index. I am looking for more consistency this season as I get to know the swing better. The main reason I wanted to learn this swing is because I tired of dealing with persistent lower back and hip pain while playing and after. The pain relief has been great; the handicap drop was a nice secondary benefit image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />.
    Callaway Epic 9.0 Fujikura Atmos Black TS 6S
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    Titleist 913H 21* hybrid
    Ping i200 Nippon N.S.Pro Modus3 Tour 105S - 4-UW
    Titleist Vokey SM6 54* and 58* S200
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  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Advanced Members Posts: 348 ✭✭


    Is JB currently working with any tour pros? As far as I know, Rocco was the last one. Also, which of today's tour players as a swing that most closely matches JBs teaching? I know some have mentioned Strenick. But, are there any others? Thanks.




    JB is pretty much retired and not looking for PGA Tour students to teach these days and all his past guys are pretty much done playing for the most part.
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
    Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
    Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
    Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
    Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
    Putter:
    TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Advanced Members Posts: 348 ✭✭
    Ayersjj wrote:




    DJ

    Wonder what JB would say about Suttons analysis. JB always told me if I hangbak it will go left. The harder I fire the right from ground up the straighter it will go. Looking at Sutton slow mo to me looks like dead legs. I wonder if his feels are fooling him. Gotta give him credit to give it a go again @60 tho!



    Thoughts?

    https://www.golfchannel.com/video/hal-sutton-swing-changes-comeback-pga-tour-champions




    He looks out of sequence to me, but I’ll text it to JB tomorrow and see what he thinks.
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
    Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
    Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
    Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
    Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
    Putter:
    TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • AyersjjAyersjj Advanced Members Posts: 117 ✭✭
    edited March 13


    It would be great if people could share their improvements using Ballard's method. I.E. went from this hdcp to this lower hdcp. Thanks.




    Before Ballard

    I played college golf 1981-85 @ The Citadel. Top 10 all Southern conference 1984/85. Those 4years I pulled the butt of club into the ball and play w shear guts and hit millions of golfballs.



    Turned pro and went to see Jimmy after struggling mini tour 1986 making zero $$.



    After Jimmy

    1987 Kentucky Open 3rd place professional division

    1987 Multiple Michelob classics in the $$ Top 1-3 place

    1988 Missed getting in Doral by one shot

    1988 Missed getting in Honda by one shot

    1988 Missed Canadian Tour by one shot

    1988 Titusville Open 66 first round 3 off Hatalski &Dent

    1989 Tornado Tour Win w 71

    Married 1991 got Amateur status back

    1996 Coshocton Invitation 1st place w 68

    1996 Muirfield Village Club Champion

    1997 Muirfield Village Club Champion

    1997 US Mid-Am Texas

    1998 Muirfiled Villiage Club Champion

    2000 Muirfield Village Club Champion



    Basically, my golf accelerated to another level under Ballard tuteledge. In not a ball beater anymore but swing much better when I move thru the shot. I think the big diffference for me with Ballard fundys is the ball sounds different bc u I compress it now and ur playing partners have no clue how you do it. It takes commitment to change and when u try urold swing u find quickly the old ways suck.



    There are much better resumes on this board than mine (some pga tour players) But, there may not be a more committed Ballard disciple here than me other than than 97Speeder



    I am 56 and overcoming thumb surgery and love the prospects of this swing still performing better w age.



    Imo
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • JedaigekiJedaigeki Advanced Members Posts: 264 ✭✭
    Really enjoyed watching the debate video, I'd heard lots of things about it getting very heated and nasty but found it thoroughly civel and interesting. Both guys are clearly passionate about improving golfers which for me is the main thing. I don't think Flick was overly condesending and on many occasions agreed with Ballard.



    My take away was that there isn't a huge difference in what they are actually trying to accomplish, it's just slightly different perpectives on how to do it. Flick wants to educate the hands first and then get the body to respond to that while Ballard wants the body to work correctly as that way the hands don't need much educating. Personally I think it's somewhere in the middle. I played mini tour golf for 4 years over a decade ago and have always felt my swing more with my hands than anything else. For me the swing has always had more conciousness in my arms than my body however during a round with my pro a few months ago he told me that my swing had many of the ballard fundamentals. So although my awareness is more in my hands when I swing I very much adhear to the ballard connection model.
  • 97speedster97speedster Speedster Advanced Members Posts: 348 ✭✭
    edited March 13


    It would be great if people could share their improvements using Ballard's method. I.E. went from this hdcp to this lower hdcp. Thanks.




    I started working with Jimmy in 1995 and he changed my game around completely. The biggest difference to me was that when I was nervous and under intense pressure my game would not only hold up finally, but it would often times get better. Before I met Ballard, I was a great putter so I could get it going and make birdies, but then when the heat was on my swing wouldn’t hold up and I kept coming up short. A year after I started working with Ballard I noticed a huge difference, especially under pressure.... in 1996 I finished top 10 on the Golden Bear Tour money list out of 150 players. I didn’t win, but I knew I was finally on the right track.



    In 1997 my confidence started to build and my goal was to start winning. I started to really see some amazing things happen when I was under pressure that year.... in July of 1997 I was playing a course in Sarasota in a big money game, back then $500 was a lot of money to be playing for 🙈. We teed off on the back nine and in the middle of the round I tied the Guinness Record with 9 birdies in a row.... after 4 or 5 birdies in a row you usually get nervous, but I started to see my swing hold up to these nerves and I beat my good friend Paul Azinger’s course record by 3 shots that day and it still stands after 22 years. My eagle putt on the last hole (#9) did a 360 around the cup from 20 feet which would of given me a 59 (-13). Azinger was actually the one who got me to go see Ballard back in 1995; he said to me, “I’ve seen a lot of players make teachers careers, Leadbetter didn’t make Faldo, Faldo made Leadbetter! I’ve only seen two teachers who made players careers, John Redman and Jimmy Ballard. I witnessed Sutton and Strange’s get better under Ballard so you should go see him.” Paul was right, and even he went to see Ballard in the early 2000’s before he had his motorcycle wreck that made him stop competing.



    A few weeks after I shot my course record, I shot 69-66-67 for a 202 (-14) to win by 5 shots on the Golden Bear Tour at The Loxahatchee Club, an extremely tough Jack Nicklaus Signature Design. Shooting 67 in very windy conditions the final round under pressure really proved to me that what JB teaches works, especially under pressure. I shot -5 and missed at 2nd stage of Q School by a shot that fall, and unfortunately didn’t putt my best that week, but that year really proved to me that JB’s teaching worked.



    In 1998 I met my wife, the next 4 events after meeting her I finished in the top 5 four weeks in a row and for whatever reason I ended up getting the chip and pitch yips about a month after that. I soon started to lose interest in all the traveling and wanted to be home with her and then quit golf for 8 years, mostly due to losing interest after getting the yips with my short game, but I could still putt. I had no interest in playing golf with the yips, and then I invented a training aid that cured my yips, it’s called the YipDoc and it suddenly brought back my interest in golf again. Now I’m 51, got my amateur status back and started playing a lot more golf again and competing in tournaments. My goal now is to win the US Senior Amateur after I turn 55. I reconnected (pun intended 😂) with Ballard after my hiatus and have been seeing him once a month for the last year and a half now and golf is fun again.... hence, sharing his philosophy on the golf swing with all of you.



    Even at 51, I’m still trying to get better, and I’m not much different than all of you; I just love golf and like to have a game that can travel 😉.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    WITB in 2018
    Driver: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (10.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura SIX Tour Spec X
    3 Wood: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (14.5 degrees)
    Shaft: Fujikura Atmos Blue 7X
    Hybrid: TaylorMade RBZ Tour Stage 2 (18.5 degrees)
    Shaft: KBS 95 Prototype S
    Irons: TaylorMade P-770 (4-PW)
    Shafts: UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 110 F4 +1/4"
    Wedges: TaylorMade Milled Grind (52-09, 58-13),
    Callaway Mack Daddy 2 64*
    Shafts: True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S-400
    Putter:
    TaylorMade Spider Tour Black Slant Neck with a T-line 34"
    Grip: Golf Pride Classic Putter Grip
    Golf Ball: TaylorMade TP5X
  • gsea33gsea33 Advanced Members Posts: 653 ✭✭
    For me the best thing to come out of the Ballard/Flick video was Jimmy's comment the left goes sideways and the right goes up. Simple has that.

    Titleist 975D 10.5
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    Ping Eye 2 2, 4-SW BECU
    Titleist Acushnet Bullseye

  • bluedotbluedot Advanced Members Posts: 3,336 ✭✭
    gsea33 wrote:


    For me the best thing to come out of the Ballard/Flick video was Jimmy's comment the left goes sideways and the right goes up. Simple has that.




    Absolutely, and this is the misunderstanding about what Ballard means by "connection" when it comes to the right side. Connection the way he uses it doesn't mean that the right arm stays close to the body; connection refers to staying in powerful, athletic positions, which for the right side is a position similar to a baseball player getting ready to throw a ball. That's why the book has drawings of an electrical cord being plugged into a wall socket, or coming unplugged. That and the issue of swaying vs. coiling are the two great misunderstandings/misrepresentations of JB's work.
  • AyersjjAyersjj Advanced Members Posts: 117 ✭✭
    edited March 13
    gsea33 wrote:


    For me the best thing to come out of the Ballard/Flick video was Jimmy's comment the left goes sideways and the right goes up. Simple has that.




    I agree, my biggest error is to slide back instead of coiling as he mentioned. Then I have to lift the club which is a false coil. From their the lower body out races arms due to being disconnected and flippy the clown 🤡 at the bottom. Recipe for hooks and weak wipes right.
  • dodgerdodger Advanced Members Posts: 391 ✭✭
    About a year and a half ago I got pretty sick of dropping the club under and slinging hooks with the driver, hitting really crappy irons because I could not get the club down to the ball. I found an instructor in Minnesota who helps Rocco Mediate a little and he really got me on the right track, just by putting a water bottle inside the target line and telling me to stay outside of it both in the back and through swing. I found this thread and adopted some of the check list on the first page which also really helped. Last summer my ball striking was better than it has been in the last twenty years, confirmed by friends I have played with that long. I put the clubs away in October and did nothing but work on the wall drill and making sure the right shoulder goes up in the back swing. Last piece was setting the right foot to where it feels toed in. Two weeks ago I went on an annual golf trip to Arizona. We play the same courses every year. With a half hour warm up after not hitting a golf ball since October, I hit my first drive on an uphill 380 yard par four to 84 yards from the green. My only swing thought was left elbow down. I am hitting on average an additional five greens in regulation. In three days I had only one drive result in a penalty. My swing thoughts have simplified, I know what to do when I start dropping the club too in, and I can turn things around faster on the course. I give a lot of credit to this thread and Ballard, having re-read the book, gotten the connector and the glove and watched the video again. When his book came out in 1982, I bought it and misapplied the connection theory. I went short and flat. I then figured that being small and fast as opposed to Sutton or Lyle, the method was not right for my build. I am now convinced that Ballard's theories apply to everyone, it is really easy on the body. I am excited about the upcoming season and love being able to hit fairway woods off the turf consistently again. Work on chipping and bunker play is my focus this year. Ballard's theories will lower the handicap, I am convinced of it. Whether or not it will turn a tour player into a major winner, I could care less.
  • ggproggpro Advanced Members Posts: 537 ✭✭
    Ayersjj wrote:



    Is JB currently working with any tour pros? As far as I know, Rocco was the last one. Also, which of today's tour players as a swing that most closely matches JBs teaching? I know some have mentioned Strenick. But, are there any others? Thanks.




    I know one guy that said shoot me if I ever leave JB. If u watched the debate Flick alluded to Mark Omeara dropping his hands. Jimmy made it clear it might of been a feeling but if Omeara drops his hands arms hes done. Look at Suttons video pretty obviius imo he should go get some help from JB again.

    https://www.golfchan...-tour-champions




    Sadly Hal has gone away from a lot of the Ballard principles. He has a program where you can work with him in Texas for a day, but after a few oif the things he's posted on Instagram I have had second thoughts.
  • bluedotbluedot Advanced Members Posts: 3,336 ✭✭


    Here is the video of Jimmy Ballard debating with Jim Flick of the body swinging the club versus the arms and the hands. There are swings of some of Jimmy's students in the video including Hal Sutton, Curtis Strange and Jim Colbert. The video is 46 minutes total time, and packed full of great info, enjoy!



    https://youtu.be/VAgvfLLbE5c




    I'm about half way thru watching the video; thank you so much for posting this.



    I must say that Flick sort of lost my respect right off the bat by claiming that he has had more success with lesser players, and then at the beginning of the debate by complimenting Ballard on his work with better players, which carries the same implication that Ballard's method is good for better players but no so much for lesser players. If his life depended on it, Flick could never prove that claim, and it smacks of sort of a desperation tactic.



    In addition to making a claim that, even if true, he couldn't possibly prove, while admitting that Ballard's better players have had better results, Flick is asking us to believe that it is easier to become consistent by using smaller muscles than bigger muscles, which I don't think is considered to be true in ANY sport. Flick's stuff about shorter swings is a red herring; you have to learn to play effectively with less than a full swing no matter what you are doing.
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