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Golf ball marked "on the green" by mistake - lifted and it was off

 2bGood ·  
2bGood2bGood Members  5430WRX Points: 637Handicap: 3-8Posts: 5,430 Titanium Tees
Joined:  edited Jul 18, 2019 in Rules of Golf and Etiquette #1

I know that if any part of the ball is touching the green, you can mark it. Today I had a ball that appeared to be touching the green. My competitors agreed it clearly looked to be touching the green. I marked and picked it up and discovered a tuft of grass under it that could not be seen. This was a fringe anomaly, not following the defined cut line. After the ball was marked and lifted it became clear that there was no way it was touching grass cut to the green height.

What is the ruling?

This was match play.

If it was medal play would the ruling be different?

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  • AugsterAugster Members  4739WRX Points: 621Posts: 4,739 Titanium Tees
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    Rule 9.4b. One penalty stroke. Both match and stroke.

    “b. Penalty for Lifting or Deliberately Touching Ball or Causing It to Move

    If the player lifts or deliberately touches his or her ball at rest or causes it to move, the player gets one penalty stroke.”

    The ball is then replaced.

    Posted:
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  • NewbyNewby Members  7830WRX Points: 656Posts: 7,830 Titanium Tees
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    Rules Issues in Match Play
    Deciding Issues by Agreement. During a round without a referee assigned to your match, you and your opponent
    may agree how to decide a Rules issue.
    The agreed outcome stands provided you and your opponent did not deliberately agree to ignore any Rule or penalty you both knew applied.

    I read this that the second paragraph applies as you did not agree to ignore the rule before you picked up the ball. But others may disagree.

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  • 596596 Lakeland, FLMembers  3881WRX Points: 372Posts: 3,881 Titanium Tees
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    I agree with no penalty based on all players conferring that the ball was on the green before being marked and moved. There was no discussion that you'd ignore the rules IF the ball was not on the green. You all made a logical decision the ball was and the green... Proceed!

    Posted:
  • cmagnussoncmagnusson Members  584WRX Points: 183Handicap: 14Posts: 584 Golden Tee
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    On -, @Newby said:

    Rules Issues in Match Play
    Deciding Issues by Agreement. During a round without a referee assigned to your match, you and your opponent
    may agree how to decide a Rules issue.
    The agreed outcome stands provided you and your opponent did not deliberately agree to ignore any Rule or penalty you both knew applied.

    I read this that the second paragraph applies as you did not agree to ignore the rule before you picked up the ball. But others may disagree.

    Yup, unless the agreement is premeditated ignorance of a rule, agreements mostly overrule these types of situations in match play.

    Still a penalty in stroke though. I’ve had this happen in a casual round, and don’t mark balls within 1 - 2 inches of the cut line because of it (I’ll sometimes risk it to clean a mud ball but that’s about it)

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  • SawgrassSawgrass Members  15944WRX Points: 1,196Posts: 15,944 Titanium Tees
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    While I agree with Newby that in match play two players may come to a (potentially) legitimate conclusion about the area of the course where a ball resides and have that agreement stand (much like calling a ref over in stroke play regarding the green/no green issue and abiding by his "green" ruling) I think there may be more to this.

    From the full definition of putting green:
    The edge of a putting green is defined by where it can be seen that the specially prepared area starts (such as where the grass has been distinctly cut to show the edge), unless the Committee defines the edge in a different way (such as by using a line or dots).

    Now, as I read the OP there was a small mowing anomaly directly under the ball, so small that it wasn't seen with the ball in place. And there was a well defined edge either side. The question then becomes, does the surface of the green technically follow the bit of unmowned grass and jog toward the interior of the green leaving a ball-shaped general area intrustion? Or is the unmowed grass simply an imperfection on the green? (The definition of a putting green does not include any mention of perfection in preparation.) In my mind's eye, this higher grass is still part of the green based on where the edge cut on either side of the anomaly shows it to be.

    Posted:
  • 2bGood2bGood Members  5430WRX Points: 637Handicap: 3-8Posts: 5,430 Titanium Tees
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    Very preceptive comments Sawgrass. I am not sure the answer, but I tend to agree it is a pretty grey area between part of the fringe or imperfection.

    In the end it did not matter for the match I was in. It was a best ball event and my partner needed making the the same score I did.

    Posted:
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  • rogolfrogolf Members  4423WRX Points: 636Posts: 4,423 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Sawgrass said:

    While I agree with Newby that in match play two players may come to a (potentially) legitimate conclusion about the area of the course where a ball resides and have that agreement stand (much like calling a ref over in stroke play regarding the green/no green issue and abiding by his "green" ruling) I think there may be more to this.

    From the full definition of putting green:
    The edge of a putting green is defined by where it can be seen that the specially prepared area starts (such as where the grass has been distinctly cut to show the edge), unless the Committee defines the edge in a different way (such as by using a line or dots).

    Now, as I read the OP there was a small mowing anomaly directly under the ball, so small that it wasn't seen with the ball in place. And there was a well defined edge either side. The question then becomes, does the surface of the green technically follow the bit of unmowned grass and jog toward the interior of the green leaving a ball-shaped general area intrustion? Or is the unmowed grass simply an imperfection on the green? (The definition of a putting green does not include any mention of perfection in preparation.) In my mind's eye, this higher grass is still part of the green based on where the edge cut on either side of the anomaly shows it to be.

    Imo, the ball needs to be touching the surface of the "specially-prepared" putting green and, in this case, it wasn't - result is an unfortunate one stroke penalty. When in doubt, don't mark and lift.

    Posted:
  • jacob7071jacob7071 TXMembers  41WRX Points: 36Handicap: 1Posts: 41 Bunkers
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    On -, @rogolf said:

    Imo, the ball needs to be touching the surface of the "specially-prepared" putting green and, in this case, it wasn't - result is an unfortunate one stroke penalty. When in doubt, don't mark and lift.

    Hmm. Not sure if you're right or wrong, but this made me think of another scenario. Your ball comes to rest on top of a leaf on the putting green...can you lift it?

    Posted:
  • sui generissui generis Members  4509WRX Points: 812Posts: 4,509 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @jacob7071 said:

    On -, @rogolf said:

    Imo, the ball needs to be touching the surface of the "specially-prepared" putting green and, in this case, it wasn't - result is an unfortunate one stroke penalty. When in doubt, don't mark and lift.

    Hmm. Not sure if you're right or wrong, but this made me think of another scenario. Your ball comes to rest on top of a leaf on the putting green...can you lift it?

    Why guess, when it's there for all the world to see?

    13.1 Actions Allowed or Required on Putting Greens
    a. When Ball Is on Putting Green
    A ball is on the putting green when any part of the ball:
    Touches the putting green, or
    Lies on or in anything (such as a loose impediment or an obstruction) and is inside the edge of the putting green.

    https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=13

    Posted:
    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.
  • jacob7071jacob7071 TXMembers  41WRX Points: 36Handicap: 1Posts: 41 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Jul 18, 2019 #11

    On -, @sui generis said:

    On -, @jacob7071 said:

    On -, @rogolf said:

    Imo, the ball needs to be touching the surface of the "specially-prepared" putting green and, in this case, it wasn't - result is an unfortunate one stroke penalty. When in doubt, don't mark and lift.

    Hmm. Not sure if you're right or wrong, but this made me think of another scenario. Your ball comes to rest on top of a leaf on the putting green...can you lift it?

    Why guess, when it's there for all the world to see?

    13.1 Actions Allowed or Required on Putting Greens
    a. When Ball Is on Putting Green
    A ball is on the putting green when any part of the ball:
    Touches the putting green, or
    Lies on or in anything (such as a loose impediment or an obstruction) and is inside the edge of the putting green.

    https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=13

    Ha. When you say it, I sound lazy. Thanks for the link.

    Posted:
  • 2bGood2bGood Members  5430WRX Points: 637Handicap: 3-8Posts: 5,430 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @rogolf said:

    On -, @Sawgrass said:

    While I agree with Newby that in match play two players may come to a (potentially) legitimate conclusion about the area of the course where a ball resides and have that agreement stand (much like calling a ref over in stroke play regarding the green/no green issue and abiding by his "green" ruling) I think there may be more to this.

    From the full definition of putting green:
    The edge of a putting green is defined by where it can be seen that the specially prepared area starts (such as where the grass has been distinctly cut to show the edge), unless the Committee defines the edge in a different way (such as by using a line or dots).

    Now, as I read the OP there was a small mowing anomaly directly under the ball, so small that it wasn't seen with the ball in place. And there was a well defined edge either side. The question then becomes, does the surface of the green technically follow the bit of unmowned grass and jog toward the interior of the green leaving a ball-shaped general area intrustion? Or is the unmowed grass simply an imperfection on the green? (The definition of a putting green does not include any mention of perfection in preparation.) In my mind's eye, this higher grass is still part of the green based on where the edge cut on either side of the anomaly shows it to be.

    Imo, the ball needs to be touching the surface of the "specially-prepared" putting green and, in this case, it wasn't - result is an unfortunate one stroke penalty. When in doubt, don't mark and lift.

    To the point above, some times you find anomalies on the green. If this same tuft of grass was on the middle of the green, would your view change?

    Posted:
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  • SawgrassSawgrass Members  15944WRX Points: 1,196Posts: 15,944 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @2bGood said:

    On -, @rogolf said:

    On -, @Sawgrass said:

    While I agree with Newby that in match play two players may come to a (potentially) legitimate conclusion about the area of the course where a ball resides and have that agreement stand (much like calling a ref over in stroke play regarding the green/no green issue and abiding by his "green" ruling) I think there may be more to this.

    From the full definition of putting green:
    The edge of a putting green is defined by where it can be seen that the specially prepared area starts (such as where the grass has been distinctly cut to show the edge), unless the Committee defines the edge in a different way (such as by using a line or dots).

    Now, as I read the OP there was a small mowing anomaly directly under the ball, so small that it wasn't seen with the ball in place. And there was a well defined edge either side. The question then becomes, does the surface of the green technically follow the bit of unmowned grass and jog toward the interior of the green leaving a ball-shaped general area intrustion? Or is the unmowed grass simply an imperfection on the green? (The definition of a putting green does not include any mention of perfection in preparation.) In my mind's eye, this higher grass is still part of the green based on where the edge cut on either side of the anomaly shows it to be.

    Imo, the ball needs to be touching the surface of the "specially-prepared" putting green and, in this case, it wasn't - result is an unfortunate one stroke penalty. When in doubt, don't mark and lift.

    To the point above, some times you find anomalies on the green. If this same tuft of grass was on the middle of the green, would your view change?

    The above question of yours puts the issue in dramatic focus, and is the basis of my permissive position on the issue.

    Posted:
  • rogolfrogolf Members  4423WRX Points: 636Posts: 4,423 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 18, 2019 #14

    On -, @2bGood said:

    On -, @rogolf said:

    On -, @Sawgrass said:

    While I agree with Newby that in match play two players may come to a (potentially) legitimate conclusion about the area of the course where a ball resides and have that agreement stand (much like calling a ref over in stroke play regarding the green/no green issue and abiding by his "green" ruling) I think there may be more to this.

    From the full definition of putting green:
    The edge of a putting green is defined by where it can be seen that the specially prepared area starts (such as where the grass has been distinctly cut to show the edge), unless the Committee defines the edge in a different way (such as by using a line or dots).

    Now, as I read the OP there was a small mowing anomaly directly under the ball, so small that it wasn't seen with the ball in place. And there was a well defined edge either side. The question then becomes, does the surface of the green technically follow the bit of unmowned grass and jog toward the interior of the green leaving a ball-shaped general area intrustion? Or is the unmowed grass simply an imperfection on the green? (The definition of a putting green does not include any mention of perfection in preparation.) In my mind's eye, this higher grass is still part of the green based on where the edge cut on either side of the anomaly shows it to be.

    Imo, the ball needs to be touching the surface of the "specially-prepared" putting green and, in this case, it wasn't - result is an unfortunate one stroke penalty. When in doubt, don't mark and lift.

    To the point above, some times you find anomalies on the green. If this same tuft of grass was on the middle of the green, would your view change?

    No, because it is clearly within the perimeter of the green. Your ball/situation was not. The careful player wouldn't mark and lift when there is any doubt.
    The perimeter of a cutting green can change from day to day depending on the precision of the person doing the mowing.

    Posted:
  • SawgrassSawgrass Members  15944WRX Points: 1,196Posts: 15,944 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @rogolf said:

    On -, @2bGood said:

    On -, @rogolf said:

    On -, @Sawgrass said:

    While I agree with Newby that in match play two players may come to a (potentially) legitimate conclusion about the area of the course where a ball resides and have that agreement stand (much like calling a ref over in stroke play regarding the green/no green issue and abiding by his "green" ruling) I think there may be more to this.

    From the full definition of putting green:
    The edge of a putting green is defined by where it can be seen that the specially prepared area starts (such as where the grass has been distinctly cut to show the edge), unless the Committee defines the edge in a different way (such as by using a line or dots).

    Now, as I read the OP there was a small mowing anomaly directly under the ball, so small that it wasn't seen with the ball in place. And there was a well defined edge either side. The question then becomes, does the surface of the green technically follow the bit of unmowned grass and jog toward the interior of the green leaving a ball-shaped general area intrustion? Or is the unmowed grass simply an imperfection on the green? (The definition of a putting green does not include any mention of perfection in preparation.) In my mind's eye, this higher grass is still part of the green based on where the edge cut on either side of the anomaly shows it to be.

    Imo, the ball needs to be touching the surface of the "specially-prepared" putting green and, in this case, it wasn't - result is an unfortunate one stroke penalty. When in doubt, don't mark and lift.

    To the point above, some times you find anomalies on the green. If this same tuft of grass was on the middle of the green, would your view change?

    No, because it is clearly within the perimeter of the green. Your ball/situation was not. The careful player wouldn't mark and lift when there is any doubt.
    The perimeter of a cutting green can change from day to day depending on the precision of the person doing the mowing.

    Wasn’t this imperfection within the perimeter of the green? And didn’t this “careful player” remove any doubt by virtue of his opponent agreeing his ball was on the green?

    Posted:
  • 2bGood2bGood Members  5430WRX Points: 637Handicap: 3-8Posts: 5,430 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 18, 2019 #16

    On -, @rogolf said:

    On -, @2bGood said:

    On -, @rogolf said:

    On -, @Sawgrass said:

    While I agree with Newby that in match play two players may come to a (potentially) legitimate conclusion about the area of the course where a ball resides and have that agreement stand (much like calling a ref over in stroke play regarding the green/no green issue and abiding by his "green" ruling) I think there may be more to this.

    From the full definition of putting green:
    The edge of a putting green is defined by where it can be seen that the specially prepared area starts (such as where the grass has been distinctly cut to show the edge), unless the Committee defines the edge in a different way (such as by using a line or dots).

    Now, as I read the OP there was a small mowing anomaly directly under the ball, so small that it wasn't seen with the ball in place. And there was a well defined edge either side. The question then becomes, does the surface of the green technically follow the bit of unmowned grass and jog toward the interior of the green leaving a ball-shaped general area intrustion? Or is the unmowed grass simply an imperfection on the green? (The definition of a putting green does not include any mention of perfection in preparation.) In my mind's eye, this higher grass is still part of the green based on where the edge cut on either side of the anomaly shows it to be.

    Imo, the ball needs to be touching the surface of the "specially-prepared" putting green and, in this case, it wasn't - result is an unfortunate one stroke penalty. When in doubt, don't mark and lift.

    To the point above, some times you find anomalies on the green. If this same tuft of grass was on the middle of the green, would your view change?

    No, because it is clearly within the perimeter of the green. Your ball/situation was not. The careful player wouldn't mark and lift when there is any doubt.
    The perimeter of a cutting green can change from day to day depending on the precision of the person doing the mowing.

    To be clear my ball was "clearly within the perimeter of the green". about 7/8 were within the perimeter. 2 people competing against me confirmed it. Then when lifted it was found a tuft of grass jutted out from the permitter and the ball was sitting on it. Best way I can describe it is that my ball was sitting on Florida with the fringe being a US map and the water being the green. Obviously not as long as Florida but the weird little jutting out form a clearly defined edge.

    Posted:
    Post edited by 2bGood on
  • rogolfrogolf Members  4423WRX Points: 636Posts: 4,423 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @2bGood said:

    On -, @rogolf said:

    On -, @2bGood said:

    On -, @rogolf said:

    On -, @Sawgrass said:

    While I agree with Newby that in match play two players may come to a (potentially) legitimate conclusion about the area of the course where a ball resides and have that agreement stand (much like calling a ref over in stroke play regarding the green/no green issue and abiding by his "green" ruling) I think there may be more to this.

    From the full definition of putting green:
    The edge of a putting green is defined by where it can be seen that the specially prepared area starts (such as where the grass has been distinctly cut to show the edge), unless the Committee defines the edge in a different way (such as by using a line or dots).

    Now, as I read the OP there was a small mowing anomaly directly under the ball, so small that it wasn't seen with the ball in place. And there was a well defined edge either side. The question then becomes, does the surface of the green technically follow the bit of unmowned grass and jog toward the interior of the green leaving a ball-shaped general area intrustion? Or is the unmowed grass simply an imperfection on the green? (The definition of a putting green does not include any mention of perfection in preparation.) In my mind's eye, this higher grass is still part of the green based on where the edge cut on either side of the anomaly shows it to be.

    Imo, the ball needs to be touching the surface of the "specially-prepared" putting green and, in this case, it wasn't - result is an unfortunate one stroke penalty. When in doubt, don't mark and lift.

    To the point above, some times you find anomalies on the green. If this same tuft of grass was on the middle of the green, would your view change?

    No, because it is clearly within the perimeter of the green. Your ball/situation was not. The careful player wouldn't mark and lift when there is any doubt.
    The perimeter of a cutting green can change from day to day depending on the precision of the person doing the mowing.

    To be clear my ball was "clearly within the perimeter of the green". about 7/8 were within the perimeter. 2 people competing against me confirmed it. Then when lifted it was found a tuft of grass jutted out from the permitter and the ball was sitting on it. Best way I can describe it is that my ball was sitting on Florida with the fringe being a US map and the water being the green. Obviously not as long as Florida but the weird little jutting out form a clearly defined edge.

    Whatever. I've given my ruling and reasoning. And, imo, whether your opponents agreed or not isn't important to the ruling.

    Posted:
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  • 2bGood2bGood Members  5430WRX Points: 637Handicap: 3-8Posts: 5,430 Titanium Tees
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    In match play it is of course important to the ruling, if my competitors agree it was on the green. For medal play it is a much more interesting discussion.

    I am tending to agree sawgrass on this one at this stage. A flip side example I have seen is when there is a dead patch that stretches from the green to the fringe. Grass height will not tell you where the green starts and ends so you have to rely on the established edge from outside that area.

    Posted:
  • sui generissui generis Members  4509WRX Points: 812Posts: 4,509 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @2bGood said:

    I know that if any part of the ball is touching the green, you can mark it. Today I had a ball that appeared to be touching the green. My competitors agreed it clearly looked to be touching the green. I marked and picked it up and discovered a tuft of grass under it that could not be seen. This was a fringe anomaly, not following the defined cut line. After the ball was marked and lifted it became clear that there was no way it was touching grass cut to the green height.

    What is the ruling?

    This was match play.

    If it was medal play would the ruling be different?

    In match play, with a few exceptions, there's no need to consult your opponent before taking an action. Your opponent has a duty to him or herself to pay attention and object (ask for a ruling).

    Posted:
    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.
  • antipantip Members  1224WRX Points: 409Posts: 1,224 Platinum Tees
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    Interesting thread, thank you

    On -, @2bGood. The remaining bone of contention in the discussion comes down to interpretation of what is the "specially prepared" surface and, specifically, does a fresh mower cut on a certain day re-define the edge of the green? I'm not aware of any specific guidance on this or whether it has arisen in a significant tournament context, but my inherent view is any clearly visible 'normal' fringe line defines the specially prepared surface, not whether the person on the mower sneezed and missed the correct line. My view is coloured by a practice that is not uncommon in these parts - the pre-competition mowing on a weekend (under time pressure to get the job done) just using straight parallel cut lines and do not run the mower around the fringe at all. Result is a saw-tooth cut line around the perimeter of the green so it would make no sense to re-interpret the dimensions of the green on this basis.
    Posted:
  • rogolfrogolf Members  4423WRX Points: 636Posts: 4,423 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @antip said:

    Interesting thread, thank you
    On -, @2bGood. The remaining bone of contention in the discussion comes down to interpretation of what is the "specially prepared" surface and, specifically, does a fresh mower cut on a certain day re-define the edge of the green? I'm not aware of any specific guidance on this or whether it has arisen in a significant tournament context, but my inherent view is any clearly visible 'normal' fringe line defines the specially prepared surface, not whether the person on the mower sneezed and missed the correct line. My view is coloured by a practice that is not uncommon in these parts - the pre-competition mowing on a weekend (under time pressure to get the job done) just using straight parallel cut lines and do not run the mower around the fringe at all. Result is a saw-tooth cut line around the perimeter of the green so it would make no sense to re-interpret the dimensions of the green on this basis.

    Not doing a "clean-up cut" (final cut around the edge of the green) for a competition round should be totally unacceptable and only adds to player confusion. The Committee should do everything possible to make it easy for the competitors to play within the Rules.

    Posted:
  • AugsterAugster Members  4739WRX Points: 621Posts: 4,739 Titanium Tees
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    I’m with rogolf completely on this one.

    Even in match play, with both of your opponents coming over and saying “That’s on the green” and the other says “that’s on the green” and then you say thanks, and lift it, and now KNOW it wasn’t on the green, you can’t agree to waive the penalty.

    All 3 of you were just wrong. Which happens. But you have to apply the penalty. Didn’t change the outcome at all due to partners ball as said.

    But when it’s close, don’t mark it. Just play it. Problem solved.

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  • 2bGood2bGood Members  5430WRX Points: 637Handicap: 3-8Posts: 5,430 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @antip said:

    Interesting thread, thank you
    On -, @2bGood. The remaining bone of contention in the discussion comes down to interpretation of what is the "specially prepared" surface and, specifically, does a fresh mower cut on a certain day re-define the edge of the green? I'm not aware of any specific guidance on this or whether it has arisen in a significant tournament context, but my inherent view is any clearly visible 'normal' fringe line defines the specially prepared surface, not whether the person on the mower sneezed and missed the correct line. My view is coloured by a practice that is not uncommon in these parts - the pre-competition mowing on a weekend (under time pressure to get the job done) just using straight parallel cut lines and do not run the mower around the fringe at all. Result is a saw-tooth cut line around the perimeter of the green so it would make no sense to re-interpret the dimensions of the green on this basis.

    Thanks, I try not to post clear cut (no pun intended) situations

    Posted:
  • 2bGood2bGood Members  5430WRX Points: 637Handicap: 3-8Posts: 5,430 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @rogolf said:

    On -, @antip said:

    Interesting thread, thank you
    On -, @2bGood. The remaining bone of contention in the discussion comes down to interpretation of what is the "specially prepared" surface and, specifically, does a fresh mower cut on a certain day re-define the edge of the green? I'm not aware of any specific guidance on this or whether it has arisen in a significant tournament context, but my inherent view is any clearly visible 'normal' fringe line defines the specially prepared surface, not whether the person on the mower sneezed and missed the correct line. My view is coloured by a practice that is not uncommon in these parts - the pre-competition mowing on a weekend (under time pressure to get the job done) just using straight parallel cut lines and do not run the mower around the fringe at all. Result is a saw-tooth cut line around the perimeter of the green so it would make no sense to re-interpret the dimensions of the green on this basis.

    Not doing a "clean-up cut" (final cut around the edge of the green) for a competition round should be totally unacceptable and only adds to player confusion. The Committee should do everything possible to make it easy for the competitors to play within the Rules.

    This was in a club match play event that could be played anytime in a 2 week period the course was not special prepared for tournament play.

    Posted:
  • 2bGood2bGood Members  5430WRX Points: 637Handicap: 3-8Posts: 5,430 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 19, 2019 #25

    On -, @Augster said:

    I’m with rogolf completely on this one.

    Even in match play, with both of your opponents coming over and saying “That’s on the green” and the other says “that’s on the green” and then you say thanks, and lift it, and now KNOW it wasn’t on the green, you can’t agree to waive the penalty.

    All 3 of you were just wrong. Which happens. But you have to apply the penalty. Didn’t change the outcome at all due to partners ball as said.

    But when it’s close, don’t mark it. Just play it. Problem solved.

    Problem is even after I lifted my competitors agreed I was on the green despite being on the 'anomaly'.

    It did not matter as my partner made his putt, so the issue never went further than that as I was putting after him.

    Posted:
    Post edited by 2bGood on
  • antipantip Members  1224WRX Points: 409Posts: 1,224 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #26

    IMO, this would be an excellent question to put to the USGA phone in service. Were I a US resident, I would be volunteering.
    In the absence of such a ruling, intuitively, I can find no logic in 'empowering' any first year apprentice greenkeeper mowing the greens to redefine the edge of the greens with every turn of the controls.

    Posted:
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  • 2bGood2bGood Members  5430WRX Points: 637Handicap: 3-8Posts: 5,430 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 19, 2019 #28

    Nice pull sawgrass. Very helpful in this instance.

    I am actually kind of surprised that there is no specific ruling about this. My specific instance was just really weird the way the green was cut, but I have played plenty of Links courses where there is no height difference between the green cut and the fairway cut and you have to use you best judgement on where the green starts.

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    Post edited by 2bGood on
  • Twism86Twism86 Members  543WRX Points: 124Posts: 543 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #29

    You all agreed it was mark-able to best of your knowledge. Go with that. Keep golf fun, dont be a rules grouch!

    Posted:
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  • LeoLeo99LeoLeo99 Members  5029WRX Points: 850Posts: 5,029 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #30

    On -, @Twism86 said:

    You all agreed it was mark-able to best of your knowledge. Go with that. Keep golf fun, dont be a rules grouch!

    On -, @Twism86 said:

    You all agreed it was mark-able to best of your knowledge. Go with that. Keep golf fun, dont be a rules grouch!

    Agreed. I think one should know with virtual certainty that a rule was broken in order to assess a penalty. Need to give the player the benefit of any doubt.

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  • 2bGood2bGood Members  5430WRX Points: 637Handicap: 3-8Posts: 5,430 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #31

    As an aside, with our Match everything was good to go as for the ruling. I don't post this about the one instance, but more the broader discussion about how this situation is handled but the rules.

    Posted:
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