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Technique Pop Quiz

 TheInfidel ·  
TheInfidelTheInfidel Gotta let the Big Dog eat....Members  1656WRX Points: 280Handicap: 5Posts: 1,656 Platinum Tees
Joined:  edited Jul 31, 2020 11:29am in Instruction & Academy #1

I had a lesson with my local Pro yesterday, only my third one in 15 years. Was a bit of a shock when we checked the fundamentals. I'm currently playing off 5, not that this has any bearing on how good or bad my fundamentals would be e.g. grip, stance, posture and alignment.

Which picture below is a square club face at address? e.g. which picture has the leading edge of the golf club square to the back of the ball. Nothing to do with target, start line or anthing out of shot.


Posted:

  • Ping G400 9* Fujikura Speeder 661 X (+16g head weight)
  • Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 18*, True Temper Bi Matrix RXi X 
  • Adams Idea A7 22* UST V2 Hybrid X +0.5'
  • Mizuno MP20 MMC 4-7 Nippon Modus 3 130X +0.5' 2 deg up
  • Mizuno MP20 MB 8-PW Nippon Modus 3 130X +0.5' 2 deg up
  • Mizuno S18 50* Nippon NS PRO 1150GH Tour X +0.5'
  • Nike Engage Raw 54* S400 +0.5'
  • Cleveland RTX 588 Rotex 2.0 60* S400 +0.5'
  • Odyssey Dual Force 990 


1

Comments

  • footmashiefootmashie Members  112WRX Points: 60Posts: 112 Fairways
    Joined:  #2

    Square to what, target line, start line, front of shaft, center-line of shaft, although picture 1 presents a prettier view.

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • TheInfidelTheInfidel Gotta let the Big Dog eat.... Members  1656WRX Points: 280Handicap: 5Posts: 1,656 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #3

    Apologies @footmashie you're right, I should have been more precise in my question. I've made a small edit.

    I'd like to get views on which picture represents a square club face at address to the back of the ball. The logic being that the club face should be perpendicular to the target line, but I don't want to get bogged down in anything outside a square set up at address.

    Posted:

    • Ping G400 9* Fujikura Speeder 661 X (+16g head weight)
    • Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 18*, True Temper Bi Matrix RXi X 
    • Adams Idea A7 22* UST V2 Hybrid X +0.5'
    • Mizuno MP20 MMC 4-7 Nippon Modus 3 130X +0.5' 2 deg up
    • Mizuno MP20 MB 8-PW Nippon Modus 3 130X +0.5' 2 deg up
    • Mizuno S18 50* Nippon NS PRO 1150GH Tour X +0.5'
    • Nike Engage Raw 54* S400 +0.5'
    • Cleveland RTX 588 Rotex 2.0 60* S400 +0.5'
    • Odyssey Dual Force 990 


  • FuscinatorFuscinator Members  490WRX Points: 304Posts: 490 Greens
    Joined:  #4

    Looking at the angles on either side of where the clubface is contacting the ball, the angles are closer to equal in picture 1.

    Posted:
  • ryan84ryan84 Members  190WRX Points: 60Handicap: 7Posts: 190 Fairways
    Joined:  #5

    Honestly looks like the same picture to me😂

    Posted:
    SIM MAX 10.5 - Diamana D+ 70x
    Sim Max 15 deg - GD AD VR 7x
    TM M3 19 deg hybrid - Tensei blue 80 x-stiff
    Ping iblades 4-pw - proj x 6.5
    Vokey SM7 - proj x 6.5

    Toulon San Diego - Golf Pride Tour SNSR
    OR
    2016 Bettinardi BB1 
  • TheInfidelTheInfidel Gotta let the Big Dog eat.... Members  1656WRX Points: 280Handicap: 5Posts: 1,656 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #6

    This is what I've personally been struggling with in set up. The picture of the 8 iron on the left, or picture 2 above looks closed or toed in to me.

    Posted:

    • Ping G400 9* Fujikura Speeder 661 X (+16g head weight)
    • Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 18*, True Temper Bi Matrix RXi X 
    • Adams Idea A7 22* UST V2 Hybrid X +0.5'
    • Mizuno MP20 MMC 4-7 Nippon Modus 3 130X +0.5' 2 deg up
    • Mizuno MP20 MB 8-PW Nippon Modus 3 130X +0.5' 2 deg up
    • Mizuno S18 50* Nippon NS PRO 1150GH Tour X +0.5'
    • Nike Engage Raw 54* S400 +0.5'
    • Cleveland RTX 588 Rotex 2.0 60* S400 +0.5'
    • Odyssey Dual Force 990 


  • footmashiefootmashie Members  112WRX Points: 60Posts: 112 Fairways
    Joined:  #7

    No need to get bogged down within the weeds. The easiest way is to place club head about eye level and orient first groove, or leading edge, perpendicular to the horizon and then take your hold upon the club from that point.

    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • scooterhd2scooterhd2 Members  1076WRX Points: 396Handicap: 3Posts: 1,076 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #8

    Pic 1 is open. Pics 2 is square. How much that matters is highly debatable.

    Posted:

    Ping G410+ 9*, Tensei Pro Orange

    Adams XTD Ti 17*, Fubuki

    Apex 20*, AD DI 85

    Srixon U85 23*, AD DI 95

    Srixon 585 5-6, Nippon 120

    Srixon 785 7-PW, Nippon 120

    Ping Glide 3.0 52*, Nippon 120

    TM Hi Toe 56*&60*, Nippon 120

    Evnroll ER3

  • TheInfidelTheInfidel Gotta let the Big Dog eat.... Members  1656WRX Points: 280Handicap: 5Posts: 1,656 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #9

    Might have nailed it right there.

    But for a player with a right miss setting up with an open blade for 2 decades is a rookie error on my part.

    Posted:

    • Ping G400 9* Fujikura Speeder 661 X (+16g head weight)
    • Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 18*, True Temper Bi Matrix RXi X 
    • Adams Idea A7 22* UST V2 Hybrid X +0.5'
    • Mizuno MP20 MMC 4-7 Nippon Modus 3 130X +0.5' 2 deg up
    • Mizuno MP20 MB 8-PW Nippon Modus 3 130X +0.5' 2 deg up
    • Mizuno S18 50* Nippon NS PRO 1150GH Tour X +0.5'
    • Nike Engage Raw 54* S400 +0.5'
    • Cleveland RTX 588 Rotex 2.0 60* S400 +0.5'
    • Odyssey Dual Force 990 


  • LeoLeo99LeoLeo99 Members  5173WRX Points: 920Posts: 5,173 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #10

    They look the same to me and if I really need to find a difference, Pic 1 looks every so slightly open compared to pic 2. Or pic 2 looks ever so slightly closed compared to pic 1. Don't think it's enough to make any difference.

    Posted:
  • scooterhd2scooterhd2 Members  1076WRX Points: 396Handicap: 3Posts: 1,076 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #11

    Everyone's swing is different, but right miss means open face. If your path is any "good" you are hitting push fades all day which sucks. Naturally, you probably correct and come over the top to give the face a change to get square. Some people play very good golf from here. Very good. It's not a deathblow, but others hit pulls, snap, slices, fades, and a straight ball with just enough frequency to make them think that the bad shots were bad swings and if they could just have more good swings they would be scratch.

    Square is not square. @TheInfidel hold a club 'square' and then mimic an impact position without a ball. Some people need to take little 1/4 swings. Some people need to swing with their eyes closed and stop at impact. Others can just hold the club out in front of them and make a small backswing, lag a touch, and then forward to impact (as shown in the pic taken from a Shawn Clement video). What happens? For almost everyone with a right miss, the face is wide open. Your 'square address' is delivering an open face. You can start applying all sorts of swing fixes, but if you are already a decent golfer and have a somewhat repeatable, ingrained swing, the simple solution is to hold it more closed, so that it is square at impact. This could be at address as you are doing, where Pic 2 is clearly several degrees more "closed" than PIc 1. This could be with a stronger grip. But for these people, closed is square. And the only square that counts for anything is at impact.


    Posted:

    Ping G410+ 9*, Tensei Pro Orange

    Adams XTD Ti 17*, Fubuki

    Apex 20*, AD DI 85

    Srixon U85 23*, AD DI 95

    Srixon 585 5-6, Nippon 120

    Srixon 785 7-PW, Nippon 120

    Ping Glide 3.0 52*, Nippon 120

    TM Hi Toe 56*&60*, Nippon 120

    Evnroll ER3

  • bladehunterbladehunter south carolinaMembers  31008WRX Points: 7,293Handicap: NONEPosts: 31,008 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #12

    2 is square. But it looks shut to me. I play with a face that looks like 1 most of the time. And shut it to square for a draw. I’m left eye dominant righty.

    Posted:
    TM SIM max 10.8 Fuji Ventus red 6x 
    Ping G410 15.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Ping G410 21* ADDI 105x 
    Ping Blueprint  3- PW   Modus 130X 
    Artisan   53 59 s400
    Cameron GSS 1.5 009. Sound slot,  tungsten weights. 


  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

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  • mokedaddymokedaddy Members  1397WRX Points: 205Posts: 1,397 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #13

    I play stitched back grips and started putting my grips on a couple of degrees closed because I had the same problem.

    Posted:
    TM M6 9 GD Tour AD XC 6x
    TM M6 15 GD Tour AD TP 7x
    TM M6 18 GD Tour AD VR 8x
    Ping I200, IBlade 4-P power spec Nippon SPO
    Ping Glide 2.0 - 49ss, 55ws heel grind, 60ss wrx grind Nippon SPO
    Byron Morgan DH89 SSS 350g KBS CT TOUR BLACK
    Best Grips leather grips
    Snell MTB-X yellow
  • russcrussc Members  6074WRX Points: 66Posts: 6,074 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #14

    Cross eyed dominant golfers have an advantage . Because most golfers need to rotate their heads in order to make a full shoulder turn , cross eyed dominant players can pre- rotate their heads at setup ,ala , Jack Nicklaus and avoid that movement .

    Posted:
  • TheInfidelTheInfidel Gotta let the Big Dog eat.... Members  1656WRX Points: 280Handicap: 5Posts: 1,656 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #15

    Time will tell for me. But I'll be interested to see how a club head that is turned 5-8 degrees towards "Square" at address changes my shot pattern. It definitely encourages a bit of shaft lean for me also.

    It would be naive for me to think this is a quick fix because as @scooterhd2 says there are a great many things that can happen in the delivery of the blade at 75mph to alter face angle or club path.

    Posted:

    • Ping G400 9* Fujikura Speeder 661 X (+16g head weight)
    • Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 18*, True Temper Bi Matrix RXi X 
    • Adams Idea A7 22* UST V2 Hybrid X +0.5'
    • Mizuno MP20 MMC 4-7 Nippon Modus 3 130X +0.5' 2 deg up
    • Mizuno MP20 MB 8-PW Nippon Modus 3 130X +0.5' 2 deg up
    • Mizuno S18 50* Nippon NS PRO 1150GH Tour X +0.5'
    • Nike Engage Raw 54* S400 +0.5'
    • Cleveland RTX 588 Rotex 2.0 60* S400 +0.5'
    • Odyssey Dual Force 990 


  • JphemmingJphemming Members  5WRX Points: 33Posts: 5 Bunkers
    Joined:  #16

    @TheInfidel - Did your pro provide any feedback how setting up with "square" clubface is expected to impact your swing and ball flight? I play a push draw and due to a persistent left miss I setup with an open club face. To my eye both picture 1 and 2 look closed and would likely produce draw/hook that would finish well left of my target line. But, as you note, a lot happens between address and impact.

    Posted:
  • TheInfidelTheInfidel Gotta let the Big Dog eat.... Members  1656WRX Points: 280Handicap: 5Posts: 1,656 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #17

    Hi @Jphemming - It will be different for everyone I guess, but for me when I had previoulsy set up with a slightly open clubface BUT am turning well with the lower body then I was able to return it square, my miss would be a high right one. However when I now set up with a square (looks closed to me) club face and even when the lower body gets a bit lazy in the turn, the right miss shouldnt be as bad. Minimisng some of the damage. With an effective turn through the ball (hips opening to target etc) I may even get a little draw on the mid irons.

    With all the degrees of variation at impact I think the takeaway here is that a lazy swing with poor lower body action, that way always going to cause a right miss, would cause an even bigger right miss when set up with an open club face. This won't be news to anyone.

    I'm going to work on it over the coming weeks and see how it progresses.

    Posted:

    • Ping G400 9* Fujikura Speeder 661 X (+16g head weight)
    • Tour Edge Exotics CB3 Tour 18*, True Temper Bi Matrix RXi X 
    • Adams Idea A7 22* UST V2 Hybrid X +0.5'
    • Mizuno MP20 MMC 4-7 Nippon Modus 3 130X +0.5' 2 deg up
    • Mizuno MP20 MB 8-PW Nippon Modus 3 130X +0.5' 2 deg up
    • Mizuno S18 50* Nippon NS PRO 1150GH Tour X +0.5'
    • Nike Engage Raw 54* S400 +0.5'
    • Cleveland RTX 588 Rotex 2.0 60* S400 +0.5'
    • Odyssey Dual Force 990 


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