Manual de la Torre Method

[juststeve]

Taking it back with the hands over the trail shoulder then forward in the direction of the target with the arms ALLOWING THE BODY TO RESPOND does work, if you do it. It worked before you started "really turning my hips" with your irons. Really turning your hips is not allowing your body to respond. Allowing the swinging of the club to move your relaxed body is what works. Relax, swing toward the target, and let your body respond and you will be back on the sweet spot, with the ball flying higher and longer than ever again.

 

Steve

[skajaquada77]

Thanks Steve,

By turning hips i mean really coiling over my center of gravity, as demonstrated by Manuel on his video, to prove that his swing really had coil, but without sway. I do turn my hips over my center, in respond to the hands going back to trail shoulder. I think the problem is I practice so much with 3 wood and driver where hands go back to trailer shoulder but lower (due to length of shaft) that now I am not taking the irons back to the trail shoulder to the right spot, obviously higher than woods. If that makes sense... so the forward swing starts out of whack, making poor contact.

 

> @juststeve said:

> Taking it back with the hands over the trail shoulder then forward in the direction of the target with the arms ALLOWING THE BODY TO RESPOND does work, if you do it. It worked before you started "really turning my hips" with your irons. Really turning your hips is not allowing your body to respond. Allowing the swinging of the club to move your relaxed body is what works. Relax, swing toward the target, and let your body respond and you will be back on the sweet spot, with the ball flying higher and longer than ever again.

>

> Steve

 

 

[juststeve]

> @skajaquada77 said:

> Thanks Steve,

> By turning hips i mean really coiling over my center of gravity, as demonstrated by Manuel on his video, to prove that his swing really had coil, but without sway. I do turn my hips over my center, in respond to the hands going back to trail shoulder. I think the problem is I practice so much with 3 wood and driver where hands go back to trailer shoulder but lower (due to length of shaft) that now I am not taking the irons back to the trail shoulder to the right spot, obviously higher than woods. If that makes sense... so the forward swing starts out of whack, making poor contact.

>

> > @juststeve said:

> > Taking it back with the hands over the trail shoulder then forward in the direction of the target with the arms ALLOWING THE BODY TO RESPOND does work, if you do it. It worked before you started "really turning my hips" with your irons. Really turning your hips is not allowing your body to respond. Allowing the swinging of the club to move your relaxed body is what works. Relax, swing toward the target, and let your body respond and you will be back on the sweet spot, with the ball flying higher and longer than ever again.

> >

> > Steve

>

>

 

I'm glad what you are doing works for you but I assure you Manny never told anyone to turn their hips. The hips do in fact turn but as a reaction to the motion of the club . The tight coil is produced by permitting the hips to turn while maintaining a equal weight distribution right and left.

 

Were he here he would tell you why he didn't teach conscious body motion. He would tell you that we each have a different body and our individual bodies will react differently to the swinging of the club. Even one persons body may react differently for different shots or even from day to day depending on how well we slept the night before and how are back feels. All that matters according to Manny is what the club does. If the club is moved properly it matters not a bit how the body responds.

 

When I met Manny it was a summer off from college. I was playing baseball and basket ball in college. I'm now 71 years old with knees in need of replacement and I assure you that my body doesn't react now the way it did long ago. Nevertheless I still move the club the way he taught me and the ball still goes to the target.

 

Don't focus on what your body does, just what the club does.

 

Steve

[GLG20]

> @"JohnnyNight " said:

> I Back..!!

> The Genius of the downswing being initiated by your upper arms (elbow to shoulder) is that by doing so this automatically moves your core which in turn clears your hips to then allow the club to follow through in the proper sequence...!!

>

> Of course all of the regular things about rhythm, posture and grip pressure apply to this swing as they would to any swing.

 

It really is. I have been working on the swing for over a year and I am finally ingraining the process of swing with the upper arms. It's just hard to overcome years of overactive hands, no magic bullet for me. Just lots of repetition.

[erikro]

Anyone in the north of Boston or southern New Hampshire area that teach this method?

[Zizzer]

> @BigEx44 said:

> I've bought and have been reading Manual's book. I'm really enjoying it. As a "Brian Sparks" disciple it's right in my wheel house. I'm thinking of maybe traveling to a 3 day school in St' Louis (The Heartlands Golf School) with Ed LeBeau who is another Manual disciple. Anyone have any experience with Ed or his school?

 

Not with Ed. There are better instructors in StL and in Indiana Tennessee and Mississippi at far less cost. I have done MDT

 

 

[skajaquada77]

Alright, can we talk about bunker shots?

The bunkers are superpacked here lately, from previous days of heavy rains. Dry, solid, hard. So basically it’s the dreaded hardpan shot. I’ve skulled the last 6 shots, trying normal relaxed centered set up, ball both slightly forward and back... nothing worked. I used 60 degree and 55 degree wedges. Can somebody suggests a strategy? I went back to the book and went over the whole chapter, thinking of low shot not focusing on high shot and scooping, big long swings, explosion shots, etc. What do you guys think about when you approach the bunker and its a hardpan, greenside shot, pin in the middle of the green, average bunker lip height?

[Tanner25]

> When I met Manny it was a summer off from college. I was playing baseball and basket ball in college. I'm now 71 years old with knees in need of replacement and I assure you that my body doesn't react now the way it did long ago. Nevertheless I still move the club the way he taught me and the ball still goes to the target.

>

> Don't focus on what your body does, just what the club does.

>

> Steve

 

Hey Steve, Watched some vids on Manny's method. The simplified version seems to be take the club over the right shoulder, come down and brush the grass and then swing the club over the left shoulder (see the beginning of the 1987 swing clinic on youtube). Is this a good way to go about it, or must it be take the club over the right shoulder with two hands and on the downswing, the upper arms swing the whole club to the target, for better results?

 

Thanks, Tanner

[juststeve]

> @Tanner25 said:

> > When I met Manny it was a summer off from college. I was playing baseball and basket ball in college. I'm now 71 years old with knees in need of replacement and I assure you that my body doesn't react now the way it did long ago. Nevertheless I still move the club the way he taught me and the ball still goes to the target.

> >

> > Don't focus on what your body does, just what the club does.

> >

> > Steve

>

> Hey Steve, Watched some vids on Manny's method. The simplified version seems to be take the club over the right shoulder, come down and brush the grass and then swing the club over the left shoulder (see the beginning of the 1987 swing clinic on youtube). Is this a good way to go about it, or must it be take the club over the right shoulder with two hands and on the downswing, the upper arms swing the whole club to the target, for better results?

>

> Thanks, Tanner

 

If memory serves, in the 87 video Manny is talking about a lesson he gave a lady at the club, and the result she enjoyed. When Manny gave lessons he gave each student what he felt they needed, not a complete description of his swing theory. He gave this student what she needed and she improved although what he describes is very incomplete. .

 

The book Manny wrote is more directed to his swing theory. Not knowing what an individual reader needs he put the whole theory in the book. Taking the club over the trail shoulder with both hands and then forward with both arms in the direction of the target is a more complete, yet not entirely complete, description of the method. There is a lot more in the book that you may need to pay attention to to get optimal results.

 

Steve

[sprcoop]

> @skajaquada77 said:

> Alright, can we talk about bunker shots?

> The bunkers are superpacked here lately, from previous days of heavy rains. Dry, solid, hard. So basically it’s the dreaded hardpan shot. I’ve skulled the last 6 shots, trying normal relaxed centered set up, ball both slightly forward and back... nothing worked. I used 60 degree and 55 degree wedges. Can somebody suggests a strategy? I went back to the book and went over the whole chapter, thinking of low shot not focusing on high shot and scooping, big long swings, explosion shots, etc. What do you guys think about when you approach the bunker and its a hardpan, greenside shot, pin in the middle of the green, average bunker lip height?

 

I don't know if Manny would approve but one of our local courses has bunkers like that 365. I developed a technique that works for me.

 

I use PW, not a SW, for less bounce. Come in steep about 1 inch behind the ball and make sure that leading edge digs and stick it straight into the sand. Use about the same speed as if you were just hitting a short pitch from rough. The hard sand will push the ball out about the same speed. It will come out a little low but way better than the bounce and skull method. HTH

[skajaquada77]

Thanks Steve, I did read something along those lines in Manuel’s book. I was confused, but you seem to use the same technique, basically the swing finishes with the clubhead on the ground, and that little bit of sand between the face and the ball makes the ball pop up? I will try it tomorrow, let’s see what kind of results I get...

Do you change your club selection based on how much green you have to work with between bunker and hole? Height of bunker lip/wall?

Thanks!

> @sprcoop said:

> > @skajaquada77 said:

> > Alright, can we talk about bunker shots?

> > The bunkers are superpacked here lately, from previous days of heavy rains. Dry, solid, hard. So basically it’s the dreaded hardpan shot. I’ve skulled the last 6 shots, trying normal relaxed centered set up, ball both slightly forward and back... nothing worked. I used 60 degree and 55 degree wedges. Can somebody suggests a strategy? I went back to the book and went over the whole chapter, thinking of low shot not focusing on high shot and scooping, big long swings, explosion shots, etc. What do you guys think about when you approach the bunker and its a hardpan, greenside shot, pin in the middle of the green, average bunker lip height?

>

> I don't know if Manny would approve but one of our local courses has bunkers like that 365. I developed a technique that works for me.

>

> I use PW, not a SW, for less bounce. Come in steep about 1 inch behind the ball and make sure that leading edge digs and stick it straight into the sand. Use about the same speed as if you were just hitting a short pitch from rough. The hard sand will push the ball out about the same speed. It will come out a little low but way better than the bounce and skull method. HTH

 

 

[juststeve]

 

Your welcome but that wasn't my response. Manny's general approach to green side bunker shots was to address the ball as usual, club head in the center of the stance, ball forward of the club head 2-3 inches, and swing as usual. Club head strikes the sand behind the ball and the ball comes out with the sand. I've never played from a bunker so hard that won't work, but if I did I'd probably consider chipping.

 

Steve

 

> @skajaquada77 said:

> Thanks Steve, I did read something along those lines in Manuel’s book. I was confused, but you seem to use the same technique, basically the swing finishes with the clubhead on the ground, and that little bit of sand between the face and the ball makes the ball pop up? I will try it tomorrow, let’s see what kind of results I get...

> Do you change your club selection based on how much green you have to work with between bunker and hole? Height of bunker lip/wall?

> Thanks!

> > @sprcoop said:

> > > @skajaquada77 said:

> > > Alright, can we talk about bunker shots?

> > > The bunkers are superpacked here lately, from previous days of heavy rains. Dry, solid, hard. So basically it’s the dreaded hardpan shot. I’ve skulled the last 6 shots, trying normal relaxed centered set up, ball both slightly forward and back... nothing worked. I used 60 degree and 55 degree wedges. Can somebody suggests a strategy? I went back to the book and went over the whole chapter, thinking of low shot not focusing on high shot and scooping, big long swings, explosion shots, etc. What do you guys think about when you approach the bunker and its a hardpan, greenside shot, pin in the middle of the green, average bunker lip height?

 

Your welcome but that wasn't my response. Manny's general approach to green side bunker shots was to address the ball as usual, club head in the center of the stance, ball forward of the club head 2-3 inches, and swing as usual. Cl

> >

> > I don't know if Manny would approve but one of our local courses has bunkers like that 365. I developed a technique that works for me.

> >

> > I use PW, not a SW, for less bounce. Come in steep about 1 inch behind the ball and make sure that leading edge digs and stick it straight into the sand. Use about the same speed as if you were just hitting a short pitch from rough. The hard sand will push the ball out about the same speed. It will come out a little low but way better than the bounce and skull method. HTH

>

>

 

 

[sprcoop]

> @skajaquada77 said:

> Thanks Steve, I did read something along those lines in Manuel’s book. I was confused, but you seem to use the same technique, basically the swing finishes with the clubhead on the ground, and that little bit of sand between the face and the ball makes the ball pop up? I will try it tomorrow, let’s see what kind of results I get...

> Do you change your club selection based on how much green you have to work with between bunker and hole? Height of bunker lip/wall?

> Thanks!

> > @sprcoop said:

> > > @skajaquada77 said:

> > > Alright, can we talk about bunker shots?

> > > The bunkers are superpacked here lately, from previous days of heavy rains. Dry, solid, hard. So basically it’s the dreaded hardpan shot. I’ve skulled the last 6 shots, trying normal relaxed centered set up, ball both slightly forward and back... nothing worked. I used 60 degree and 55 degree wedges. Can somebody suggests a strategy? I went back to the book and went over the whole chapter, thinking of low shot not focusing on high shot and scooping, big long swings, explosion shots, etc. What do you guys think about when you approach the bunker and its a hardpan, greenside shot, pin in the middle of the green, average bunker lip height?

> >

> > I don't know if Manny would approve but one of our local courses has bunkers like that 365. I developed a technique that works for me.

> >

> > I use PW, not a SW, for less bounce. Come in steep about 1 inch behind the ball and make sure that leading edge digs and stick it straight into the sand. Use about the same speed as if you were just hitting a short pitch from rough. The hard sand will push the ball out about the same speed. It will come out a little low but way better than the bounce and skull method. HTH

>

>

 

I'm honored to have you think I was Steve but sadly I'm not. I'm pretty one dimensional around the greens so if it's that hard I just use a PW and I don't try to get cute. Out and 2 putt works for me in that situation but I do get them close occasionally.

[sprcoop]

> @juststeve said:

>

> Your welcome but that wasn't my response. Manny's general approach to green side bunker shots was to address the ball as usual, club head in the center of the stance, ball forward of the club head 2-3 inches, and swing as usual. Club head strikes the sand behind the ball and the ball comes out with the sand. I've never played from a bunker so hard that won't work, but if I did I'd probably consider chipping.

>

> Steve

>

> > @skajaquada77 said:

> > Thanks Steve, I did read something along those lines in Manuel’s book. I was confused, but you seem to use the same technique, basically the swing finishes with the clubhead on the ground, and that little bit of sand between the face and the ball makes the ball pop up? I will try it tomorrow, let’s see what kind of results I get...

> > Do you change your club selection based on how much green you have to work with between bunker and hole? Height of bunker lip/wall?

> > Thanks!

> > > @sprcoop said:

> > > > @skajaquada77 said:

> > > > Alright, can we talk about bunker shots?

> > > > The bunkers are superpacked here lately, from previous days of heavy rains. Dry, solid, hard. So basically it’s the dreaded hardpan shot. I’ve skulled the last 6 shots, trying normal relaxed centered set up, ball both slightly forward and back... nothing worked. I used 60 degree and 55 degree wedges. Can somebody suggests a strategy? I went back to the book and went over the whole chapter, thinking of low shot not focusing on high shot and scooping, big long swings, explosion shots, etc. What do you guys think about when you approach the bunker and its a hardpan, greenside shot, pin in the middle of the green, average bunker lip height?

>

> Your welcome but that wasn't my response. Manny's general approach to green side bunker shots was to address the ball as usual, club head in the center of the stance, ball forward of the club head 2-3 inches, and swing as usual. Cl

> > >

> > > I don't know if Manny would approve but one of our local courses has bunkers like that 365. I developed a technique that works for me.

> > >

> > > I use PW, not a SW, for less bounce. Come in steep about 1 inch behind the ball and make sure that leading edge digs and stick it straight into the sand. Use about the same speed as if you were just hitting a short pitch from rough. The hard sand will push the ball out about the same speed. It will come out a little low but way better than the bounce and skull method. HTH

> >

> >

>

>

 

Steve, I'm assuming skajaquada77 is talking about bunkers that are so hard if you do not get that leading edge to bite hard (and that's not easy, must be very steep) the leading edge will bounce right into the equator of the ball. The sand being so hard the energy transfer is pretty efficient so you can't use all that speed like fluffy sand, it would go miles.

 

I like my method because I don't have enough control to pick it reliably and it gives me a larger margin for error. Not saying it works for everyone, just me. After just a few tries it was pretty easy to control.

[juststeve]

 

I have no issue with what works for you. If I ever have to play out of such a bunker I'll try anything.

 

Steve

 

> @sprcoop said:

> > @juststeve said:

> >

> > Your welcome but that wasn't my response. Manny's general approach to green side bunker shots was to address the ball as usual, club head in the center of the stance, ball forward of the club head 2-3 inches, and swing as usual. Club head strikes the sand behind the ball and the ball comes out with the sand. I've never played from a bunker so hard that won't work, but if I did I'd probably consider chipping.

> >

> > Steve

> >

> > > @skajaquada77 said:

> > > Thanks Steve, I did read something along those lines in Manuel’s book. I was confused, but you seem to use the same technique, basically the swing finishes with the clubhead on the ground, and that little bit of sand between the face and the ball makes the ball pop up? I will try it tomorrow, let’s see what kind of results I get...

> > > Do you change your club selection based on how much green you have to work with between bunker and hole? Height of bunker lip/wall?

> > > Thanks!

> > > > @sprcoop said:

> > > > > @skajaquada77 said:

> > > > > Alright, can we talk about bunker shots?

> > > > > The bunkers are superpacked here lately, from previous days of heavy rains. Dry, solid, hard. So basically it’s the dreaded hardpan shot. I’ve skulled the last 6 shots, trying normal relaxed centered set up, ball both slightly forward and back... nothing worked. I used 60 degree and 55 degree wedges. Can somebody suggests a strategy? I went back to the book and went over the whole chapter, thinking of low shot not focusing on high shot and scooping, big long swings, explosion shots, etc. What do you guys think about when you approach the bunker and its a hardpan, greenside shot, pin in the middle of the green, average bunker lip height?

> >

> > Your welcome but that wasn't my response. Manny's general approach to green side bunker shots was to address the ball as usual, club head in the center of the stance, ball forward of the club head 2-3 inches, and swing as usual. Cl

> > > >

> > > > I don't know if Manny would approve but one of our local courses has bunkers like that 365. I developed a technique that works for me.

> > > >

> > > > I use PW, not a SW, for less bounce. Come in steep about 1 inch behind the ball and make sure that leading edge digs and stick it straight into the sand. Use about the same speed as if you were just hitting a short pitch from rough. The hard sand will push the ball out about the same speed. It will come out a little low but way better than the bounce and skull method. HTH

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

> Steve, I'm assuming skajaquada77 is talking about bunkers that are so hard if you do not get that leading edge to bite hard (and that's not easy, must be very steep) the leading edge will bounce right into the equator of the ball. The sand being so hard the energy transfer is pretty efficient so you can't use all that speed like fluffy sand, it would go miles.

>

> I like my method because I don't have enough control to pick it reliably and it gives me a larger margin for error. Not saying it works for everyone, just me. After just a few tries it was pretty easy to control.

 

 

[Golfbeat]

Steve, do you know what Manuel meant with the "coil". It seems to me that it is the flex in the right wrist that is maintained until it is released at the right moment. He says that the use of the hands will destroy the coil. It could also be understood as the body which is wound up in the back swing. He does not seem to define it anywhere, at least, I could not find it.

[juststeve]

> @Golfbeat said:

> Steve, do you know what Manuel meant with the "coil". It seems to me that it is the flex in the right wrist that is maintained until it is released at the right moment. He says that the use of the hands will destroy the coil. It could also be understood as the body which is wound up in the back swing. He does not seem to define it anywhere, at least, I could not find it.

 

The coil consists of the wound up centered body, the cocking of the wrists, and the bent trail elbow. We want the angles in the right elbow and wrists to remain in constant position until they release as a reaction to the momentum of the forward swing. Using the hands instead of the arms to swing forward tends to release the angles too soon.

 

Steve

[skajaquada77]

 

> @sprcoop said:

> > @skajaquada77 said:

> > Thanks Steve, I did read something along those lines in Manuel’s book. I was confused, but you seem to use the same technique, basically the swing finishes with the clubhead on the ground, and that little bit of sand between the face and the ball makes the ball pop up? I will try it tomorrow, let’s see what kind of results I get...

> > Do you change your club selection based on how much green you have to work with between bunker and hole? Height of bunker lip/wall?

> > Thanks!

> > > @sprcoop said:

> > > > @skajaquada77 said:

> > > > Alright, can we talk about bunker shots?

> > > > The bunkers are superpacked here lately, from previous days of heavy rains. Dry, solid, hard. So basically it’s the dreaded hardpan shot. I’ve skulled the last 6 shots, trying normal relaxed centered set up, ball both slightly forward and back... nothing worked. I used 60 degree and 55 degree wedges. Can somebody suggests a strategy? I went back to the book and went over the whole chapter, thinking of low shot not focusing on high shot and scooping, big long swings, explosion shots, etc. What do you guys think about when you approach the bunker and its a hardpan, greenside shot, pin in the middle of the green, average bunker lip height?

> > >

> > > I don't know if Manny would approve but one of our local courses has bunkers like that 365. I developed a technique that works for me.

> > >

> > > I use PW, not a SW, for less bounce. Come in steep about 1 inch behind the ball and make sure that leading edge digs and stick it straight into the sand. Use about the same speed as if you were just hitting a short pitch from rough. The hard sand will push the ball out about the same speed. It will come out a little low but way better than the bounce and skull method. HTH

> >

> >

>

> I'm honored to have you think I was Steve but sadly I'm not. I'm pretty one dimensional around the greens so if it's that hard I just use a PW and I don't try to get cute. Out and 2 putt works for me in that situation but I do get them close occasionally.

 

Oh man, I totallly missed that, my bad! Thank you both for your input. We had an entire week of sun and heat, in the mid 90’s so the bunkers are almost back to fluffy sand. So for now I am back to my usual shot that has always worked. I did apply Manuel’s technique from fairway bunker with a 5 iron twice today, ball slightly back of stance to catch it clean with minimal sand between ball and face. Both shots about 160-170 yards, worked like a charm... i missed the green both times by 3-5 feet to the left, but they were easy chip shots. Overall, making progress and staying on target. If i could just relax my arms and swing with the arms to the target each time, once I start to get tired (I walk and carry my bag) I start to try to “help” the ball fly the right distance by leveraging and using shoulders, hips, tensing up... instead of just relaxed arms. My darn brain!

 

[trapsmv15]

The method isn’t for everyone, but if you do as Steve > @juststeve said:

> > @skajaquada77 said:

> > Thanks Steve,

> > By turning hips i mean really coiling over my center of gravity, as demonstrated by Manuel on his video, to prove that his swing really had coil, but without sway. I do turn my hips over my center, in respond to the hands going back to trail shoulder. I think the problem is I practice so much with 3 wood and driver where hands go back to trailer shoulder but lower (due to length of shaft) that now I am not taking the irons back to the trail shoulder to the right spot, obviously higher than woods. If that makes sense... so the forward swing starts out of whack, making poor contact.

> >

> > > @juststeve said:

> > > Taking it back with the hands over the trail shoulder then forward in the direction of the target with the arms ALLOWING THE BODY TO RESPOND does work, if you do it. It worked before you started "really turning my hips" with your irons. Really turning your hips is not allowing your body to respond. Allowing the swinging of the club to move your relaxed body is what works. Relax, swing toward the target, and let your body respond and you will be back on the sweet spot, with the ball flying higher and longer than ever again.

> > >

> > > Steve

> >

> >

>

> I'm glad what you are doing works for you but I assure you Manny never told anyone to turn their hips. The hips do in fact turn but as a reaction to the motion of the club . The tight coil is produced by permitting the hips to turn while maintaining a equal weight distribution right and left.

>

> Were he here he would tell you why he didn't teach conscious body motion. He would tell you that we each have a different body and our individual bodies will react differently to the swinging of the club. Even one persons body may react differently for different shots or even from day to day depending on how well we slept the night before and how are back feels. All that matters according to Manny is what the club does. If the club is moved properly it matters not a bit how the body responds.

>

> When I met Manny it was a summer off from college. I was playing baseball and basket ball in college. I'm now 71 years old with knees in need of replacement and I assure you that my body doesn't react now the way it did long ago. Nevertheless I still move the club the way he taught me and the ball still goes to the target.

>

> Don't focus on what your body does, just what the club does.

>

> Steve

You’ve mentioned this before Steve, but what Manuel has always said about each person’s body responding differently to the swinging of the club had made the most difference for me in using the method. I have this cookie cutter image of the MDLT swing — how his swing was, or how Tommy Aaron’s swing is — and my swing doesn’t look like that on camera. But it doesn’t need to if I’m doing the same things they are! So now when, every once in a while, I get a spell of hitting fat shots and have that urge to ‘fix’ it by pressing my hands forward at address or other means (which I think is natural for us all to do), I think back to that individuality, and then, how I wasn’t fully swinging the club through to the target with my arms the appropriate speed and length for the shot at hand. When I do: poof! Crisp ball flight. The concept is simple but full stop, the method is the method and NOT deviating helps make it so effective. It’s not for every type of personality or person, but it darn sure works.

[OrangeGravy]

This suits my brain perfectly. For me it's basically just letting your mind/body swing how it naturally wants to. The only adjustments(I mean slight adjustments) if needed would be matching grip/face angle at address to any potentially issues that your naturally swing might require to enable you to get the club back square at the ball. For me, grip-neutral/face square at address works great. Everything else is just take it back, let it load naturally and bring it to the left side. It's very freeing on the course as well not having any minutia bogging down your brain. I read this and decided to check my grip and setup. Right hand was super weak and face open at address. Adjusted grip and face, everything else fell into place nicely.

I've never understood how anyone could actually "play" golf with positions and body parts need to be here or there at x point in the swing, swimming around in their head. I certainly can't. It causes a very defensive, steering type of swing that is week for me. Nice to let it all go and know that my brain/body can handle it if I get out of the way.

[Esbjorn]

Just wanted to say thanks to Steve and others who have been keeping this thread going. I'm hoping to get some advice:

First, about me. Started playing 8 years ago and instantly began taking lessons with a local pro who followed the MDLT method completely (Chris Keough and Ken Kubitz occasionally, for those in the Puget Sound area). They have retired/moved on to other pursuits but I still believe in the method. I worked my way down to a 3 handicap and Manuel's method is all I know about a golf swing. Unfortunately now I'm sitting somewhere around a 10 handicap due to not being able to swing a club properly.

 

Over the last two years I have been struggling mightily swinging a club - all clubs, from putter to driver. I have some weird over the top move that has entered into all aspects of the swing and I can't seem to get rid of it. Contact is terrible, no idea where the ball is going and a super high, weak flight, flipping, club face is extremely shut, etc. are the results. I know to swing the club using the arms but I'm having a difficult time with it. When i take the club back and slowly return the club to the ball, the grip end of the club is so far ahead of the ball that I wouldn't be able to even make contact with the ball without flipping the club.

 

I know in the book where Manuel discusses over the top, there is a drill to move the club back on the ground about a foot behind ball and place a tee there. Then slowly swing back and return following the same direction but when I do this I'm topping the ball or not even close to where I need to be. Is it possible I'm too focused on the 'trail' side (for lack of a better term) of the swing and not actually focused on getting the club moving to the target? I've been told my swing look fine but I know something isn't right. At this point I'm completely lost and not even sure where to begin to correct the problems.

 

Any push in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.

[dlygrisse]

> @Esbjorn said:

> Just wanted to say thanks to Steve and others who have been keeping this thread going. I'm hoping to get some advice:

> First, about me. Started playing 8 years ago and instantly began taking lessons with a local pro who followed the MDLT method completely (Chris Keough and Ken Kubitz occasionally, for those in the Puget Sound area). They have retired/moved on to other pursuits but I still believe in the method. I worked my way down to a 3 handicap and Manuel's method is all I know about a golf swing. Unfortunately now I'm sitting somewhere around a 10 handicap due to not being able to swing a club properly.

>

> Over the last two years I have been struggling mightily swinging a club - all clubs, from putter to driver. I have some weird over the top move that has entered into all aspects of the swing and I can't seem to get rid of it. Contact is terrible, no idea where the ball is going and a super high, weak flight, flipping, club face is extremely shut, etc. are the results. I know to swing the club using the arms but I'm having a difficult time with it. When i take the club back and slowly return the club to the ball, the grip end of the club is so far ahead of the ball that I wouldn't be able to even make contact with the ball without flipping the club.

>

> I know in the book where Manuel discusses over the top, there is a drill to move the club back on the ground about a foot behind ball and place a tee there. Then slowly swing back and return following the same direction but when I do this I'm topping the ball or not even close to where I need to be. Is it possible I'm too focused on the 'trail' side (for lack of a better term) of the swing and not actually focused on getting the club moving to the target? I've been told my swing look fine but I know something isn't right. At this point I'm completely lost and not even sure where to begin to correct the problems.

>

> Any push in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.

Think of swinging the entire club towards the target. Not left of or right of it but on plane towards the target.

 

[NoTalentLefty]

> @juststeve said:

> Taking it back with the hands over the trail shoulder then forward in the direction of the target with the arms ALLOWING THE BODY TO RESPOND does work, if you do it. It worked before you started "really turning my hips" with your irons. Really turning your hips is not allowing your body to respond. Allowing the swinging of the club to move your relaxed body is what works. Relax, swing toward the target, and let your body respond and you will be back on the sweet spot, with the ball flying higher and longer than ever again.

>

> Steve

 

Steve,

 

I was watching a youtube that MDLT did on the golf channel years ago. Did he recommend a neutral grip?

 

Thanks in advance.

NTL

 

[Golfbeat]

> @NoTalentLefty said:

> > @juststeve said:

> > Taking it back with the hands over the trail shoulder then forward in the direction of the target with the arms ALLOWING THE BODY TO RESPOND does work, if you do it. It worked before you started "really turning my hips" with your irons. Really turning your hips is not allowing your body to respond. Allowing the swinging of the club to move your relaxed body is what works. Relax, swing toward the target, and let your body respond and you will be back on the sweet spot, with the ball flying higher and longer than ever again.

> >

> > Steve

>

> Steve,

>

> I was watching a youtube that MDLT did on the golf channel years ago. Did he recommend a neutral grip?

>

> Thanks in advance.

> NTL

>

 

[NoTalentLefty]

> @Golfbeat said:

> > @NoTalentLefty said:

> > > @juststeve said:

> > > Taking it back with the hands over the trail shoulder then forward in the direction of the target with the arms ALLOWING THE BODY TO RESPOND does work, if you do it. It worked before you started "really turning my hips" with your irons. Really turning your hips is not allowing your body to respond. Allowing the swinging of the club to move your relaxed body is what works. Relax, swing toward the target, and let your body respond and you will be back on the sweet spot, with the ball flying higher and longer than ever again.

> > >

> > > Steve

> >

> > Steve,

> >

> > I was watching a youtube that MDLT did on the golf channel years ago. Did he recommend a neutral grip?

> >

> > Thanks in advance.

> > NTL

> >

>

>

 

 

Thank you Golfbeat

 

[juststeve]

> @NoTalentLefty said:

> > @juststeve said:

> > Taking it back with the hands over the trail shoulder then forward in the direction of the target with the arms ALLOWING THE BODY TO RESPOND does work, if you do it. It worked before you started "really turning my hips" with your irons. Really turning your hips is not allowing your body to respond. Allowing the swinging of the club to move your relaxed body is what works. Relax, swing toward the target, and let your body respond and you will be back on the sweet spot, with the ball flying higher and longer than ever again.

> >

> > Steve

>

> Steve,

>

> I was watching a youtube that MDLT did on the golf channel years ago. Did he recommend a neutral grip?

>

> Thanks in advance.

> NTL

>

 

He didn't call it neutral, he called it in balance with the target. That meant the grip was one that would return the club square at impact while the club was swinging without manipulation. He would test the grip by pulling on the club, simulating the pulling force that we experience when the club swings. If the club remains square it is in balance with the target. In most cases the grip would appear to be what others describe as neutral, although for him the test was one of function,not appearance.

 

Steve

[oukeith]

In case anyone is interested. Looks like there is a YouTube contributor publishing content on MDLT swing philosophy.

 

 

[The Pearl]

Her name is Trish. I met her at the MDLT teaching seminar a couple of years back that John Hayes puts on each year. Very nice lady and super knowledgeable regarding Manuel's concepts. She is out of Florida. She has put out quite a few videos on the concepts.

[The Pearl]

This is an interesting concept..

 

[NoTalentLefty]

Just received my mdlt cd and watching it after hip replacement. Had to reorder the book, it’s been lost in the House cleaning. Love his logic and way to the game. Hope to be able to stick with it this time. Thanks for all the commits out here from Juststeve.