Are custom built clubs worth the huge $$$ increase?

[RRstein82]

Went and got a full fitting a couple of weeks ago: outside, off grass, using trackman. Tried about 6 different shafts and an equal number of heads. Ended up being recommended the Callaway Apex or Ap2 (somewhat surprisingly, I LOVED the apex, and will be going with that one), and KBS Tour-V shafts. Loved everything about, only issue is price. The Apex heads, custom built KBS Tour V's (something about specific frequency, stiffness, etc.) and grips comes out to close to $1500. This is about 50% more than I'd pay going strictly off the rack from a big box store, or about $300-$400 more if I buy from the fitter but have stock shafts (still to my specs, but not custom built). Basically I'm either paying $75 per shaft or $20 . . .

My question is whether the fully custom built shafts are worth significant price increase. I want to play the best I can, but of course I'm not getting paid to play. If fully custom clubs could lead to 4, 5, etc. strokes off per round, than I'm game; if it's something I'll barely notice however, that's a lot of cash compared to off the rack.

[BrianL99]

[quote name='RRstein82' timestamp='1398611455' post='9180511']

[color=#000000][size=3]Went and got a full fitting a couple of weeks ago: outside, off grass, using trackman. Tried about 6 different shafts and an equal number of heads. Ended up being recommended the Callaway Apex or Ap2 (somewhat surprisingly, I LOVED the apex, and will be going with that one), and KBS Tour-V shafts. Loved everything about, only issue is price. The Apex heads, custom built KBS Tour V's (something about specific frequency, stiffness, etc.) and grips comes out to close to $1500. This is about 50% more than I'd pay going strictly off the rack from a big box store, or about $300-$400 more if I buy from the fitter but have stock shafts (still to my specs, but not custom built). Basically I'm either paying $75 per shaft or $20 . . . [/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3]My question is whether the fully custom built shafts are worth significant price increase. I want to play the best I can, but of course I'm not getting paid to play. If fully custom clubs could lead to 4, 5, etc. strokes off per round, than I'm game; if it's something I'll barely notice however, that's a lot of cash compared to off the rack. [/size][/color]
[/quote]

I've got $100 that says you won't drop a single stroke off your average scores !

[rbilramz]

[quote name='RRstein82' timestamp='1398611455' post='9180511']
[color=#000000][size=3]
Went and got a full fitting a couple of weeks ago: outside, off grass, using trackman. Tried about 6 different shafts and an equal number of heads. Ended up being recommended the Callaway Apex or Ap2 (somewhat surprisingly, I LOVED the apex, and will be going with that one), and KBS Tour-V shafts. Loved everything about, only issue is price. The Apex heads, custom built KBS Tour V's (something about specific frequency, stiffness, etc.) and grips comes out to close to $1500. This is about 50% more than I'd pay going strictly off the rack from a big box store, or about $300-$400 more if I buy from the fitter but have stock shafts (still to my specs, but not custom built). Basically I'm either paying $75 per shaft or $20 . . . [/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3]
My question is whether the fully custom built shafts are worth significant price increase. I want to play the best I can, but of course I'm not getting paid to play. If fully custom clubs could lead to 4, 5, etc. strokes off per round, than I'm game; if it's something I'll barely notice however, that's a lot of cash compared to off the rack. [/size][/color]
[/quote]

You're getting screwed in the price. Tour V's are a NO CHARGE shaft upgrade from Callaway. The only thing you should pay extra for from the fitting is the grip, and most are just $5 per club. Go to Callaway's website and build a set, you can choose shaft, length, lie and grip. That'll tell you what you should pay for the set.

And IMHO, it's very worth it.

[Grumpy bumpy]

You are asking a question to a group of people, where 99% of the members have never had a professionally build set of clubs in their hands.
Ask yourself this. How many posts do you read daily, about how some company screwed up a build, or I can hit my driver, after if ordered it, or my Pings came in with the wrong lie angle, or my club length is wrong, or they built to the wrong swing weight, etc...

And Brian. You custom build your own clubs correct? You have your own equipment? Or do you order your clubs pre built? Or do you buy off the rack?

[hawkgolfer]

These clubs will not cost that much if you contact discount dans

[prorobo]

There are two site sponsors here that would save you at least around 300 off retail prices. One has already been mentioned.

[BrianL99]

[quote name='Grumpy bumpy' timestamp='1398613842' post='9180735']


And Brian. You custom build your own clubs correct? You have your own equipment? Or do you order your clubs pre built? Or do you buy off the rack?
[/quote]

You know what I do Grumpy and it's not relevant. I know exactly what I want and why. I don't go to some guy who's going to spend an hour with me and decide what's best, regardless of how I happen to be swinging that particular day. Anyone who can repeat the same exact swing day after day, is playing the PGA Tour

Someone's trying to take this guy to cleaners, Grump. $1500?

[Grumpy bumpy]

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1398616863' post='9180957']
[quote name='Grumpy bumpy' timestamp='1398613842' post='9180735']


And Brian. You custom build your own clubs correct? You have your own equipment? Or do you order your clubs pre built? Or do you buy off the rack?
[/quote]

You know what I do Grumpy and it's not relevant. I know exactly what I want and why. I don't go to some guy who's going to spend an hour with me and decide what's best, regardless of how I happen to be swinging that particular day. Anyone who can repeat the same exact swing day after day, is playing the PGA Tour

Someone's trying to take this guy to cleaners, Grump. $1500?
[/quote]
So, once again, you call us crooks, thieves, snake oil salesman, whatever.
Take your private little agenda and go someplace else. Your a contradiction.
We all know, you've been fitted, and decided you can fit yourself better. We all know you believe in the quality of handcrafted, custom built golf clubs. Otherwise you would not gave spent the time and money buying your own equipment. We know you have had several phone calls to Chris at Aerotech, to learn about shafts.
It appears, you have had NO benefit it your own fitting and club building. It must be because you have not learned how to do things properly. Because of this, NOBODY, must be able to do things properly. So when a claim is, contrary to your experience, you call us crooks, thieves, snake oil salesman.
There's 2 saying that apply to you. "It is impossible for someone to learn something, when they believe they already know it."
" it is easier to tear down, and criticize what you do not understand, than it is to learn about it".

[Ri_Redneck]

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1398616863' post='9180957']
[quote name='Grumpy bumpy' timestamp='1398613842' post='9180735']
And Brian. You custom build your own clubs correct? You have your own equipment? Or do you order your clubs pre built? Or do you buy off the rack?
[/quote]

You know what I do Grumpy and it's not relevant. [b] I know exactly what I want and why. [/b] I don't go to some guy who's going to spend an hour with me and decide what's best, regardless of how I happen to be swinging that particular day. Anyone who can repeat the same exact swing day after day, is playing the PGA Tour

Someone's trying to take this guy to cleaners, Grump. $1500?
[/quote]

I'm with Brian on [b]this (bolded above)[/b]. In my 40 yrs of playing, I know what I want to play with and I've done my own assembly since the 80s. I've discovered that, with irons, important characteristics that affect performance are: blade or cavity, amount of offset, and high, mid or low CoG. Everything else is just cosmetic. Once you know what you prefer, you move to the shaft. Once you know the profile that matches your swing, you're done.

Now you can either have them made or make them yourself. Every builder will set his price depending on what he thinks his time is worth plus the cost of his equipment used. If you think he's too high, move along to the next guy. But, consider the quality of the work too. I have seen work that varied from one end of the spectrum to the other and you sure don't want to be on the bottom end of that. I've seen shaft and clubheads ruined by "builders" that didn't know what they were doing. I'm not saying $1500 is reasonable, but considerable money spent on a quality build is far better than less money wasted on a sub-standard build. BTW, most fitters will do a fitting and give you the results for a reasonable fee. Then you can choose you own poison.

BT

[BrianL99]

[quote name='Grumpy bumpy' timestamp='1398619574' post='9181139']

So, once again, you call us crooks, thieves, snake oil salesman, whatever.
Take your private little agenda and go someplace else. Your a contradiction.
We all know, you've been fitted, and decided you can fit yourself better. We all know you believe in the quality of handcrafted, custom built golf clubs. Otherwise you would not gave spent the time and money buying your own equipment. We know you have had several phone calls to Chris at Aerotech, to learn about shafts.
It appears, you have had NO benefit it your own fitting and club building. It must be because you have not learned how to do things properly. Because of this, NOBODY, must be able to do things properly. So when a claim is, contrary to your experience, you call us crooks, thieves, snake oil salesman.
There's 2 saying that apply to you. "It is impossible for someone to learn something, when they believe they already know it."
" it is easier to tear down, and criticize what you do not understand, than it is to learn about it".
[/quote]

Your post doesn't deserve a response Grumpy, so I'll just click the "Report" button and save my energy.

[skylargolf]

You could probably find somewhere online where you can order them with your loft, length, and lie adjustments that you need for cheeper. I would talk to your pro if you belong to a club.

[rbhan12]

Shots fired.

[double or triple?]

IMHO The money you will be spending will be money well spent if you are honest if yourself in the fitting and understand that you are being fit for a swing that is a representation of your average swing. The fitter will take samples and give you options base on the average result of your swings, not results based off your best shots. Once you know what your average shots are, the new clubs you purchase can be built/altered so that your average swing can be assisted through loft,lie, and or length adjustments to be more consistent and thus enjoyable and repeatable.

[MtlJeff]

I think a lot of it just depends on what kind of swing you have, and your height/angles. I've been fitted for irons and i came to basically a stock setup. My lie angles were flattened 1 degree but for some OEMs i would've been perfectly stock (lie angles vary by MFRs). I also use plain old no-upcharge S300's and my numbers with them were no worse then a few of the other shafts i tried.

For drivers i've been fitted, but the longest driver i've ever hit is probably the RBZ Tour with the stock Xcon shaft.

If i went to one of these "kingdom visits" or the like, could i gain 5-7 yards with driver? I'm sure they could squeeze that in sure, maybe a slightly more optimal iron trajectory? Again , probably yes....

but would that affect my scores on the course. probably not

I have a very average swing plane and am 6 feet tall, my SS is fast but not crazy fast....i mean almost everything fits me well. Some people have more trouble playing off the rack stuff though

[Jack Pearsall]

$2500 iron sets rock baby!!!

[deck]

1500 for apex or apex pros is wrong my friend. There are no shaft upcharges for anything cally offers in shafts on the iron list they have.

As far as fitting. Yes. Get fit. Don't mess around with trying all different shafts and wasting your money when you can be fit and know that you are going to get the right combo for your game.

There is a list of professional club builders that would be more than willing to help you and not try to take your money like the one you describe seems like they are trying to do.

[deck]

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1398616863' post='9180957']
[quote name='Grumpy bumpy' timestamp='1398613842' post='9180735']


And Brian. You custom build your own clubs correct? You have your own equipment? Or do you order your clubs pre built? Or do you buy off the rack?
[/quote]

You know what I do Grumpy and it's not relevant. I know exactly what I want and why. I don't go to some guy who's going to spend an hour with me and decide what's best, regardless of how I happen to be swinging that particular day. Anyone who can repeat the same exact swing day after day, is playing the PGA Tour

Someone's trying to take this guy to cleaners, Grump. $1500?
[/quote]

From the guy who MOI matched his clubs and knows exactly what specs he wants after years of tinkering. You can report me as well. But all that is happening is people retorting what you post.

[dunn]

i think its a waste..and agree your scores will be same......fitting only works for whatever swing you have that day, for most amateurs swing varies day to day....after some trial and error everyone can generally fit themselves.....but it takes time, most would end up at standard anyway or close to and your body will adjust to anythingwithin reason.........I played light shafts forever, 95-110 gram higher launch range and played very well....this last year i moved into dgs300 at 130gram......after 10 or so rounds i hit ball same, same flight, distance etc.....i am low ball hitter but learned how to hit these shafts....it wasnt that big a deal........the better your swing is the better you gna hit ball period.....think some feel a fitting is gonna help their ballstriking and are disappointed when they hit it the same, because the swing is everything

[Grumpy bumpy]

One of the things that got lost in this thread.
The OP has to order the golf clubs with the golf shaft already built. The Apex or the AP2 do not come as components. Then, a club builder has to disassemble the clubs and rebuild them to the exact fitting specs, and tolerances.
The OP is asking if it is worth having this work done. He not asking about the up charge on the shafts.

[BrianL99]

[quote name='dunn' timestamp='1398624997' post='9181573']
i think its a waste..and agree your scores will be same......[b]fitting only works for whatever swing you have that day, for most amateurs swing varies day to day.[/b]...after some trial and error everyone can generally fit themselves.....[b]but it takes time, most would end up at standard anyway or close to and your body will adjust to anythingwithin reason[/b].........I played light shafts forever, 95-110 gram higher launch range and played very well....this last year i moved into dgs300 at 130gram......after 10 or so rounds i hit ball same, same flight, distance etc.....i am low ball hitter but learned how to hit these shafts....it wasnt that big a deal........the better your swing is the better you gna hit ball period.....[b]think some feel a fitting is gonna help their ballstriking and are disappointed when they hit it the same, because the swing is everything[/b]
[/quote]

You're 100% right, for about 90% of the golfers on the planet.

Tiger or Phil might want to get a little fussy ... & if you're under about 5'8" or play in the NBA, maybe a little tweaking would help, but the vast majority of golfers aren't going to improve a whit, no matter how much they spend on "fitting" or custom specs.

[deck]

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1398625389' post='9181603']
[quote name='dunn' timestamp='1398624997' post='9181573']
i think its a waste..and agree your scores will be same......[b]fitting only works for whatever swing you have that day, for most amateurs swing varies day to day.[/b]...after some trial and error everyone can generally fit themselves.....[b]but it takes time, most would end up at standard anyway or close to and your body will adjust to anythingwithin reason[/b].........I played light shafts forever, 95-110 gram higher launch range and played very well....this last year i moved into dgs300 at 130gram......after 10 or so rounds i hit ball same, same flight, distance etc.....i am low ball hitter but learned how to hit these shafts....it wasnt that big a deal........the better your swing is the better you gna hit ball period.....[b]think some feel a fitting is gonna help their ballstriking and are disappointed when they hit it the same, because the swing is everything[/b]
[/quote]

You're 100% right, for about 90% of the golfers on the planet.

Tiger or Phil might want to get a little fussy ... & if you're under about 5'8" or play in the NBA, maybe a little tweaking would help, but the vast majority of golfers aren't going to improve a whit, no matter how much they spend on "fitting" or custom specs.
[/quote]

Is this your opinion or fact? I would love to see where this is written or where you get your 90% numbers from. What evidence is there documented to show this? I would like to read it.

[mikes919]

[quote name='Grumpy bumpy' timestamp='1398625353' post='9181601']
One of the things that got lost in this thread.
The OP has to order the golf clubs with the golf shaft already built. The Apex or the AP2 do not come as components. Then, a club builder has to disassemble the clubs and rebuild them to the exact fitting specs, and tolerances.
The OP is asking if it is worth having this work done. He not asking about the up charge on the shafts.
[/quote]

But can't they just be ordered from Callaway with Tour-V's and whatever L/L/L modifications the OP requires? For like $950?

[Grumpy bumpy]

[quote name='deck' timestamp='1398628903' post='9181871']
[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1398625389' post='9181603']
[quote name='dunn' timestamp='1398624997' post='9181573']
i think its a waste..and agree your scores will be same......[b]fitting only works for whatever swing you have that day, for most amateurs swing varies day to day.[/b]...after some trial and error everyone can generally fit themselves.....[b]but it takes time, most would end up at standard anyway or close to and your body will adjust to anythingwithin reason[/b].........I played light shafts forever, 95-110 gram higher launch range and played very well....this last year i moved into dgs300 at 130gram......after 10 or so rounds i hit ball same, same flight, distance etc.....i am low ball hitter but learned how to hit these shafts....it wasnt that big a deal........the better your swing is the better you gna hit ball period.....[b]think some feel a fitting is gonna help their ballstriking and are disappointed when they hit it the same, because the swing is everything[/b]
[/quote]

You're 100% right, for about 90% of the golfers on the planet.

Tiger or Phil might want to get a little fussy ... & if you're under about 5'8" or play in the NBA, maybe a little tweaking would help, but the vast majority of golfers aren't going to improve a whit, no matter how much they spend on "fitting" or custom specs.
[/quote]

Is this your opinion or fact? I would love to see where this is written or where you get your 90% numbers from. What evidence is there documented to show this? I would like to read it.
[/quote]
Hi Deck. It is kind of a lost cause with continuing the discussion with them. The discussion of fitting and having a perfectly built set of clubs has come up before. Tom Wishon asked what it is worth to have a perfect set of clubs.
The general consensus of the forum, is, get fitted, spend the time, and the money, to get the best you are capable of getting.
And if Brian did not believe in building his clubs to a nano gram of tolerance, he would not have spent the money buying his club building equipment and electronics.

[st997777]

[quote name='hawkgolfer' timestamp='1398614279' post='9180757']
These clubs will not cost that much if you contact discount dans
[/quote]

Another vote for Discount Dans.

[deck]

[quote name='Grumpy bumpy' timestamp='1398629428' post='9181929'][quote name='deck' timestamp='1398628903' post='9181871']
[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1398625389' post='9181603']
[quote name='dunn' timestamp='1398624997' post='9181573']
i think its a waste..and agree your scores will be same......[b]fitting only works for whatever swing you have that day, for most amateurs swing varies day to day.[/b]...after some trial and error everyone can generally fit themselves.....[b]but it takes time, most would end up at standard anyway or close to and your body will adjust to anythingwithin reason[/b].........I played light shafts forever, 95-110 gram higher launch range and played very well....this last year i moved into dgs300 at 130gram......after 10 or so rounds i hit ball same, same flight, distance etc.....i am low ball hitter but learned how to hit these shafts....it wasnt that big a deal........the better your swing is the better you gna hit ball period.....[b]think some feel a fitting is gonna help their ballstriking and are disappointed when they hit it the same, because the swing is everything[/b]
[/quote]

You're 100% right, for about 90% of the golfers on the planet.

Tiger or Phil might want to get a little fussy ... & if you're under about 5'8" or play in the NBA, maybe a little tweaking would help, but the vast majority of golfers aren't going to improve a whit, no matter how much they spend on "fitting" or custom specs.
[/quote]

Is this your opinion or fact? I would love to see where this is written or where you get your 90% numbers from. What evidence is there documented to show this? I would like to read it.
[/quote]
Hi Deck. It is kind of a lost cause with continuing the discussion with them. The discussion of fitting and having a perfectly built set of clubs has come up before. Tom Wishon asked what it is worth to have a perfect set of clubs.
The general consensus of the forum, is, get fitted, spend the time, and the money, to get the best you are capable of getting.
And if Brian did not believe in building his clubs to a nano gram of tolerance, he would not have spent the money buying his club building equipment and electronics.[/quote]

I agree. It's in his posts. Walking contradiction.


Sent from my iPhone using GolfWRX Mobile

[Sean2]

There is no way I could play off the rack clubs. Being 6'5" with relatively short arms would pose a problem. When I first started playing golf I purchased an off the rack set (what did I know? Come to think of it, what do I know now? But I digress).

Anyway, I learned (at my first lesson) that my off the rack set was an inch too short and the lie angle was 3º off.

I've also subsequently learned that I was playing flexes in my driver, fairway wood, and hybrid that were all wrong for me, which has since been corrected.

Of course, my set, flexes, lengths and lie angles are a bit unique. I'm a bit of an outlier in that regard.

[Kadin 25]

[quote name='Grumpy bumpy' timestamp='1398629428' post='9181929']
[quote name='deck' timestamp='1398628903' post='9181871']
[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1398625389' post='9181603']
[quote name='dunn' timestamp='1398624997' post='9181573']
i think its a waste..and agree your scores will be same......[b]fitting only works for whatever swing you have that day, for most amateurs swing varies day to day.[/b]...after some trial and error everyone can generally fit themselves.....[b]but it takes time, most would end up at standard anyway or close to and your body will adjust to anythingwithin reason[/b].........I played light shafts forever, 95-110 gram higher launch range and played very well....this last year i moved into dgs300 at 130gram......after 10 or so rounds i hit ball same, same flight, distance etc.....i am low ball hitter but learned how to hit these shafts....it wasnt that big a deal........the better your swing is the better you gna hit ball period.....[b]think some feel a fitting is gonna help their ballstriking and are disappointed when they hit it the same, because the swing is everything[/b]
[/quote]

You're 100% right, for about 90% of the golfers on the planet.

Tiger or Phil might want to get a little fussy ... & if you're under about 5'8" or play in the NBA, maybe a little tweaking would help, but the vast majority of golfers aren't going to improve a whit, no matter how much they spend on "fitting" or custom specs.
[/quote]

Is this your opinion or fact? I would love to see where this is written or where you get your 90% numbers from. What evidence is there documented to show this? I would like to read it.
[/quote]
Hi Deck. It is kind of a lost cause with continuing the discussion with them. The discussion of fitting and having a perfectly built set of clubs has come up before. Tom Wishon asked what it is worth to have a perfect set of clubs.
The general consensus of the forum, is, get fitted, spend the time, and the money, to get the best you are capable of getting.
And if Brian did not believe in building his clubs to a nano gram of tolerance, he would not have spent the money buying his club building equipment and electronics.
[/quote]Grumpy you are 100% correct! "He knows what he knows" there's no convincing him even though he plays a custom set regardless of how he got them custom.. they ARE custom. If Tom can't convince him none of us can.

My issue is he's preaching his nonsense and there may be a golfer who can benefit from being custom fit might actually believe him. We can only hope they don't rely on his "opinion" and research the facts about custom fitting.

See ya on the green...Kadin

[PeanutsDaddy]

Grumpy,

I followed this advice: "Get fitted, spend the time, and the money, to get the best you are capable of getting." I feel confident in stating that the set Kadin25 built me (see my signature) are the best clubs that I've ever put in play and they were less expensive than the major OEM offerings that I purchased last spring. There is confidence in knowing that you have clubs in your hand that have been built to your individual needs. Through 9 rounds this season my scoring average is two strokes lower than last year and I believe I will trend even lower when I get the distances dialed in (I'm finding trouble that I've never encountered as I'm hitting the driver and irons considerably further than my previous set-up). I'm happy to finally exit the club buying carousel.

To the OP. I think the $1500 price tag is steep for a set of Apex irons, but do believe you will benefit from a fitting.

I will also add, the most vocal opponent of custom fitting in the majority of these threads has been custom fit, whether he wishes to admit it or not. How he arrived to that end point (years of tinkering, multiple fittings that he deemed to be poor, real world experience, years spent in and around the game of golf) is immaterial when discussing the merits of a true custom fitting.

I wish all of you (regardless of where you sit on the topic) success in finding a set-up that assists you in shooting lower scores : )

PD.

[Grumpy bumpy]

[quote name='mikes919' timestamp='1398629342' post='9181919']
[quote name='Grumpy bumpy' timestamp='1398625353' post='9181601']
One of the things that got lost in this thread.
The OP has to order the golf clubs with the golf shaft already built. The Apex or the AP2 do not come as components. Then, a club builder has to disassemble the clubs and rebuild them to the exact fitting specs, and tolerances.
The OP is asking if it is worth having this work done. He not asking about the up charge on the shafts.
[/quote]

But can't they just be ordered from Callaway with Tour-V's and whatever L/L/L modifications the OP requires? For like $950?
[/quote]
You can order them with grip, shaft, length, lie. But if the fitting spec requires a specific swing weight, then no. What if the shaft length needs to be 1/2 under standard, but he requires a swing weight of D8?
I don't know if Callaway has the options for custom build with these specs. They might.

[Sean2]

[quote name='rbhan12' timestamp='1398621758' post='9181335']
Shots fired.
[/quote]

No, just a difference of opinions. :-)