Are custom built clubs worth the huge $$$ increase?

[ckay]

That cost is ludicrous in my opinion. Take the spec sheet, pay for the fitting, and order from a retailer.

MOI matched this, blueprinted that...in the end, you'll still shoot the same scores. There is no magic to this game other than putting a good swing on the ball.

[BrianL99]

[quote name='trhode' timestamp='1398696124' post='9186641']
[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1398639576' post='9182899']
[quote name='RRstein82' timestamp='1398639259' post='9182863']
The huge price jump comes from "custom building" shafts, i.e., frequency matching, creating a shaft stiffness that (allegedly) specifically tailored to me.
[/quote]

That is biggest bunch of baloney I've ever heard.

You have someone trying to fleece you, big time.

[color=#282828]I can't wait to hear all you experts explain how the OP's club-fitter is going to Frequency Match those Taper Tip shafts.

[/color]
[/quote]

KBS taper tip shafts can all be trimmed up to 1". So, this is actually possible. But, being an expert on club building, you already should have known that.
[/quote]

There are experts everywhere, but in this case, I'd listen to the experts who made the Shaft ... KBS, who says:

[b]They can be tip trimmed up to 1/2", but that will increase the flex by 1/3 of a flex. So being an expert, how does that work for you?[/b]

[BrianL99]

[quote name='neilc' timestamp='1398703854' post='9187689']


Changing lie angle does not change the bounce angle,.changing loft does?

typo?
[/quote]

Sorry, I just saw this post. I can obviously type faster than I can think. You're of course right, changing the Lie doesn't effect bounce, tweaking the loft does.

Thank you for pointing that out.

[trhode]

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1398722218' post='9189983']
[quote name='trhode' timestamp='1398696124' post='9186641']
[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1398639576' post='9182899']
[quote name='RRstein82' timestamp='1398639259' post='9182863']
The huge price jump comes from "custom building" shafts, i.e., frequency matching, creating a shaft stiffness that (allegedly) specifically tailored to me.
[/quote]

That is biggest bunch of baloney I've ever heard.

You have someone trying to fleece you, big time.

[color=#282828]I can't wait to hear all you experts explain how the OP's club-fitter is going to Frequency Match those Taper Tip shafts.

[/color]
[/quote]

KBS taper tip shafts can all be trimmed up to 1". So, this is actually possible. But, being an expert on club building, you already should have known that.
[/quote]

There are experts everywhere, but in this case, I'd listen to the experts who made the Shaft ... KBS, who says:

[b]They can be tip trimmed up to 1/2", but that will increase the flex by 1/3 of a flex. So being an expert, how does that work for you?[/b]
[/quote]

It's a bit outdated for me.

This is from the latest KBS dealer news letter at the beginning of this month 2014...

Editors note: all KBS taper tip shafts offer fitters the opportunity to "tip" them up to an inch and still have the ability to insert them in most hosels. This is a great way to dial in a flex and to manipulate launch conditions.

[Grumpy bumpy]

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1398722218' post='9189983']
[quote name='trhode' timestamp='1398696124' post='9186641']
[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1398639576' post='9182899']
[quote name='RRstein82' timestamp='1398639259' post='9182863']
The huge price jump comes from "custom building" shafts, i.e., frequency matching, creating a shaft stiffness that (allegedly) specifically tailored to me.
[/quote]

That is biggest bunch of baloney I've ever heard.

You have someone trying to fleece you, big time.

[color=#282828]I can't wait to hear all you experts explain how the OP's club-fitter is going to Frequency Match those Taper Tip shafts.

[/color]
[/quote]

KBS taper tip shafts can all be trimmed up to 1". So, this is actually possible. But, being an expert on club building, you already should have known that.
[/quote]

There are experts everywhere, but in this case, I'd listen to the experts who made the Shaft ... KBS, who says:

[b]They can be tip trimmed up to 1/2", but that will increase the flex by 1/3 of a flex. So being an expert, how does that work for you?[/b]
[/quote]
Hi. Let's answer this question for you, so maybe, just maybe you will shut up.
We were talking about frequency matching shafts in a set. Correct? You stated it was not possible to frequency match, or tip trim, taper tip shafts. Correct? Yes.
I told you it is possible to tip trim them. I told you it was possible to frequency match them. Correct? I told you it is done with a process called tip equalization. Correct? Yes.
Now, you provide a letter from KBS stated that tip trimming can be done to affect the flex by 1/3 flex. Correct? Yes.
So, thank you for proving my point.
Tip trimming a taper tip shaft, has been confirmed by KBS. Some of us use this knowledge to our customers benefit, as a way to provide the best quality product we can.
To frequency match a set of shafts, it takes very little tip or butt trimming to match the shafts.
If a 1/3 of a flex is 1/2 inch tip trim, per KBS. To frequency match a set if shafts, any set of shafts, how much trim does it take if you need to change a frequency 2 CPM? What about 4 CPM? Is it possible you need to remove some from the tip of one shaft and not others?
So now you know, what I already know, that it is possible to tip trim taper tip shafts, if needed to achieve a frequency match.

[BrianL99]

[quote name='Grumpy bumpy' timestamp='1398724776' post='9190237']
Hi. Let's answer this question for you, so maybe, just maybe you will shut up.
We were talking about frequency matching shafts in a set. Correct? You stated it was not possible to frequency match, or tip trim, taper tip shafts. Correct? Yes.
I told you it is possible to tip trim them. I told you it was possible to frequency match them. Correct? I told you it is done with a process called tip equalization. Correct? Yes.
Now, you provide a letter from KBS stated that tip trimming can be done to affect the flex by 1/3 flex. Correct? Yes.
So, thank you for proving my point.

[/quote]

Sorry Grumpy, but I don't think you've thought this through.

Trimming a taper tip shaft can only do one thing ... increase stiffness. Which means if you were trying to frequency match, you could only do it 50% of time ...[b] because you can only increase the stiffness, not decrease it. [/b]99 out of 100 people who build golf clubs will tell you, trying to Frequency Match Taper Tip shafts isn't efficient or recommended.

Perhaps reading some of Tom Wishon's thoughts on frequency matching and flex, will cause you to re-visit your reliance on stiffness and frequency matching.

[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/73753/wishon-shaft-frequency-can-be-misleading/"]http://www.golfwrx.c...-be-misleading/[/url]

[url="http://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/709-frequency-matching-explained/"]http://forum.mygolfs...hing-explained/[/url]

[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/6419/tom-wishon-talking-to-wrx-readers-10-myths-about-shafts-factual-info-about-shafts-to-help-you-all/"]http://www.golfwrx.c...o-help-you-all/[/url]

To quote Tom Wishon: [i][size=4] " ... [color=#000000]for many golfers, approaching even the majority of golfers, the flex of the shaft is one of the very least important of all the fitting specifications of a golf club."[/color][/size][/i]

In the mean time, you should accept that not everyone agrees with your approach to "club fitting". If you read through this thread, you'll find that your opinion is far from definitive. More folks disagree with you, than agree.

I just looked at your posts over the last year. You're apparently on WRX primarily to solicit fitting & club work. I read post after post where you recommended someone send you a PM for "more information". You have a horse in this race ... I don't.

I only speak the facts as I know them and we disagree about "fitting". It's the way of the world, not everyone will agree with everyone else.

Now I'm done with this thread. I'm sure the OP has had more than his fill of "advice" and if nothing else, he now knows his "fitter" is trying to take him to the cleaners.

[Grumpy bumpy]

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1398726724' post='9190451']
[quote name='Grumpy bumpy' timestamp='1398724776' post='9190237']
Hi. Let's answer this question for you, so maybe, just maybe you will shut up.
We were talking about frequency matching shafts in a set. Correct? You stated it was not possible to frequency match, or tip trim, taper tip shafts. Correct? Yes.
I told you it is possible to tip trim them. I told you it was possible to frequency match them. Correct? I told you it is done with a process called tip equalization. Correct? Yes.
Now, you provide a letter from KBS stated that tip trimming can be done to affect the flex by 1/3 flex. Correct? Yes.
So, thank you for proving my point.

[/quote]

Sorry Grumpy, but I don't think you've thought this through.

Trimming a taper tip shaft can only do one thing ... increase stiffness. Which means if you were trying to frequency match, you could only do it 50% of time ...[b] because you can only increase the stiffness, not decrease it. [/b]99 out of 100 people who build golf clubs will tell you, trying to Frequency Match Taper Tip shafts isn't efficient or recommended.

Perhaps reading some of Tom Wishon's thoughts on frequency matching and flex, will cause you to re-visit your reliance on stiffness and frequency matching.

[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/73753/wishon-shaft-frequency-can-be-misleading/"]http://www.golfwrx.c...-be-misleading/[/url]

[url="http://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/709-frequency-matching-explained/"]http://forum.mygolfs...hing-explained/[/url]

[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/6419/tom-wishon-talking-to-wrx-readers-10-myths-about-shafts-factual-info-about-shafts-to-help-you-all/"]http://www.golfwrx.c...o-help-you-all/[/url]

To quote Tom Wishon: [i][size=4] " ... [color=#000000]for many golfers, approaching even the majority of golfers, the flex of the shaft is one of the very least important of all the fitting specifications of a golf club."[/color][/size][/i]

In the mean time, you should accept that not everyone agrees with your approach to "club fitting". If you read through this thread, you'll find that your opinion is far from definitive. More folks disagree with you, than agree.

I just looked at your posts over the last year. You're apparently on WRX primarily to solicit fitting & club work. I read post after post where you recommended someone send you a PM for "more information". You have a horse in this race ... I don't.

I only speak the facts as I know them and we disagree about "fitting". It's the way of the world, not everyone will agree with everyone else.

Now I'm done with this thread. I'm sure the OP has had more than his fill of "advice" and if nothing else, he now knows his "fitter" is trying to take him to the cleaners.
[/quote]
I am sending you a PM to offer some help.

[3step]

Grumpy-

You are on the right track. However, here is where things fall apart-

Our industry has not yet grown up and learned how to describe equipment products commensurate with the performance they deliver. In other industries, especially in the car business, airline business, hotel business, stereo business, restaurant business, etc., they have solved the price/performance conflict by applying a LABEL to their offerings. I.E. Airlines, (First Class, Business Class, Economy), and/or Hotels ( 1 star, 2 star, 5 star)., or (Holiday Inn Express, Holiday Inn and Hotel Intercontinental). If you removed the name Hotel Intercontinental, and kept everything else the same, including price, amenities, concierge, etc, and replaced it with a Holiday Inn Express, sign, there would be great emotional consternation among the prospective customers, similar to what is going on here.

I am guessing that the total package that you deliver to your customer is a better product than an off the rack/internet brand purchase, but in the case of this thread, golfers will compare APEX/TOUR V vs APEX/TOUR V built by a local clubmaker, blah, blah, blah, and our brains don't get it. So golfers react with words like "rip-off", "ridiculous", "go see ABC Shop".

You know how valuable it is helping a golfer find their optimal flight, or increase their percentage of center hits, or make their shots go further, and then guaranteeing these improvements by building that set from start to finish. If a certain swing weight is not available, or a sub-flex is needed, or a different loft/lie scheme, or any of a dozen issues, golfers will not understand if they do not have the ability to comprehend things. This is why brands and labels and 5 star hotel ratings exist.

My customers pay well more than the off the rack rate, and I explain this well to them so that they are not so ..., lost. After this conversation, they are left with a comparison ONLY of price and performance. And based on the performance they find with the products and services I offer, they vote with their wallets, that the performance they find, is way more valuable than the traditional off the rack set. And they come back for a driver, or a wedge or a hybrid, and when they come back, they bring their friends.

What my customers learn is that I act as guide in both the fitting and building stages of their equipment selection process, helping them find their best performance. Struggling with a driver that cost next to nothing, finding inconsistent contact again and again with an iron set that was reasonably close to the fitting specifications, using a wedge that never has felt quite right, or a putter that has "some good days, and some bad days", all of a sudden, maybe $1500 for a set that I will love, doesn't seem so "ridiculous".

My last comment is quite important. I have never met a golfer that wouldn't want the option of connecting with more equipment performance. However, many of these same golfers will jump on these forums and bemoan this terrible crime of charging for more performance. This only scares the major manufacturers from offering more premium products and services. I vote for more performance options, and I am glad to see the expansion that is going on in many of these specialty centers like Club Champion, Cool Clubs, Pure Performance, etc.

3 step

[Shaftology]

[quote name='3step' timestamp='1398727837' post='9190579']
Grumpy-

You are on the right track. However, here is where things fall apart-

Our industry has not yet grown up and learned how to describe equipment products commensurate with the performance they deliver. In other industries, especially in the car business, airline business, hotel business, stereo business, restaurant business, etc., they have solved the price/performance conflict by applying a LABEL to their offerings. I.E. Airlines, (First Class, Business Class, Economy), and/or Hotels ( 1 star, 2 star, 5 star)., or (Holiday Inn Express, Holiday Inn and Hotel Intercontinental). If you removed the name Hotel Intercontinental, and kept everything else the same, including price, amenities, concierge, etc, and replaced it with a Holiday Inn Express, sign, there would be great emotional consternation among the prospective customers, similar to what is going on here.

I am guessing that the total package that you deliver to your customer is a better product than an off the rack/internet brand purchase, but in the case of this thread, golfers will compare APEX/TOUR V vs APEX/TOUR V built by a local clubmaker, blah, blah, blah, and our brains don't get it. So golfers react with words like "rip-off", "ridiculous", "go see ABC Shop".

You know how valuable it is helping a golfer find their optimal flight, or increase their percentage of center hits, or make their shots go further, and then guaranteeing these improvements by building that set from start to finish. If a certain swing weight is not available, or a sub-flex is needed, or a different loft/lie scheme, or any of a dozen issues, golfers will not understand if they do not have the ability to comprehend things. This is why brands and labels and 5 star hotel ratings exist.

My customers pay well more than the off the rack rate, and I explain this well to them so that they are not so ..., lost. After this conversation, they are left with a comparison ONLY of price and performance. And based on the performance they find with the products and services I offer, they vote with their wallets, that the performance they find, is way more valuable than the traditional off the rack set. And they come back for a driver, or a wedge or a hybrid, and when they come back, they bring their friends.

What my customers learn is that I act as guide in both the fitting and building stages of their equipment selection process, helping them find their best performance. Struggling with a driver that cost next to nothing, finding inconsistent contact again and again with an iron set that was reasonably close to the fitting specifications, using a wedge that never has felt quite right, or a putter that has "some good days, and some bad days", all of a sudden, maybe $1500 for a set that I will love, doesn't seem so "ridiculous".

My last comment is quite important. I have never met a golfer that wouldn't want the option of connecting with more equipment performance. However, many of these same golfers will jump on these forums and bemoan this terrible crime of charging for more performance. This only scares the major manufacturers from offering more premium products and services. I vote for more performance options, and I am glad to see the expansion that is going on in many of these specialty centers like Club Champion, Cool Clubs, Pure Performance, etc.

3 step
[/quote]

Very well put...

[Grumpy bumpy]

Well, you guys will probably not like me for this but your wrong.
What was it you said? "Golfers will not understand, if they do not have the ability to comprehend things, this is why brands and labels and 5 star rating exist."

Wow, I am so sorry you feel your customers, the public, are ignorant and incapable of learning. This puts you in a worse position than Brian. This makes you such a pompous arrogant business person.

I built my business by being ethical, honest, moral, and under the assumption that my customers and the general public is smarter than I am.
I have never underestimated the intelligence of people.

And you wonder why there are forums, and why people like Brian call us crooked. The only reason he called it a ripoff is because of his need to instill hate, and anger.
He will continue, as long as you continue to believe you have some superior intelligence over your customer.
So not only does someone, like myself have to defend against Brian but I now have an understanding of why, and now to defend against your superiority complex.


Good riddance and good bye.
You are now free of me.
Thanks to those that reached out. Please stay in touch.

PS. Brain. Ask Sean about the PM I sent him, offering help. Ask any of the other about my offer to help.

[Grumpy bumpy]

To the Mods. You can remove me from this forum.
Thanks.

[Kadin 25]

I'll say it....because I happen to know who grumpy is.......


Wow...congratulations...you just ran off a Golf Digest top 100 custom club builder who's knowledge could've benefited and helped a lot of members on Wrx. That's more than I can say for some.

What a shame....smh!

[deck]

I would rather take advice from a reputable person than someone who just says what they think they know.

It's like people are brainLess

[Sean2]

[quote name='Kadin 25' timestamp='1398731512' post='9191061']
I'll say it....because I happen to know who grumpy is.......


Wow...congratulations...you just ran off a Golf Digest top 100 custom club builder who's knowledge could've benefited and helped a lot of members on Wrx. That's more than I can say for some.

What a shame....smh!
[/quote]

Yeah. Had a long talk with Grumpy and he was a big help. He is a very kind, nice, and engaging individual. Has a solid reputation in the business.

[Shaftology]

Well, all I have to say is that while we must stand on our principles and beliefs, sometimes we take ourselves too seriously and neglect to really appreciate the passion and intelligence most of the folks on this forum exhibit. I hope Grumpy reconsiders because this forum certainly provides a lot of interesting and controversial conversations and he adds to the mix. I must say that I learn something from every thread, regardless of whether I agree with everything that is said.

[_Hawk3y3_]

What happened to this thread?!?!

In less than 36 hours it progressed from somebody asking an honest question all the way to a member rage quitting an internet forum...wow...

O.P.: If it were me, I would order the specs that I was fit for straight from Callaway, or use Discount Dan's. Whatever you decide, I hope your clubs turn out awesome for you.

[tobybear]

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1398639576' post='9182899']
[quote name='RRstein82' timestamp='1398639259' post='9182863']
The huge price jump comes from "custom building" shafts, i.e., frequency matching, creating a shaft stiffness that (allegedly) specifically tailored to me.
[/quote]

That is biggest bunch of baloney I've ever heard.

You have someone trying to fleece you, big time.

[color=#282828]I can't wait to hear all you experts explain how the OP's club-fitter is going to Frequency Match those Taper Tip shafts.

[/color]
[/quote]

You can quite easily frequency match taper tip shafts. I know I've done it

[scratchswinger]

It depends on who is doing the build. $1500 for a crappy build is not worth it, $1500 for a tour quality build is worth it. The clubs from Callaway will have much looser tolerances than a good custom build. Are you getting SST Puring for the quoted cost?

[RRstein82]

Woah. I haven't checked this in a while (I'm the OP, might be hard to tell after 70+ responses) . . . s*** got real. For the record, I wasn't putting down club fitters at all. I had a fantastic fitting experience with the fitter I worked with (who works for the company who I was thinking of buying the clubs from). My personal opinion is that everyone should get fit. In terms of the custom build, I was curious about if it was worth it for ME, a 31 year old 12 hdcp who plays way more than I should, and that's still only about 2x/week with a range session squeezed in. If I had to guess I'd think custom built clubs are great for tour pros, + hdcp-ers, etc. I get the impression I wouldn't tell the difference, so I'll probably take the specs I got from the fitting and order from Roger Dunn, Callaway, etc. Those specs alone make the fitting totally worth it to me.

[Kadin 25]

" If I had to guess I'd think custom built clubs are great for tour pros, + hdcp-ers, etc."

It's just the opposite sir. Higher handicaps benefit the most from custom fit, custom built clubs.

Glad to hear you made a decision hit em well !

[RichieHunt]

[quote name='ckay' timestamp='1398721019' post='9189821']
That cost is ludicrous in my opinion. Take the spec sheet, pay for the fitting, and order from a retailer.

MOI matched this, blueprinted that...in the end, you'll still shoot the same scores. There is no magic to this game other than putting a good swing on the ball.
[/quote]

I can understand your opinion on the cost. But I can tell you that had I not MOI fitted my driver and custom fitted the driver I have, I would lose at least 2-3 strokes per round. I can't hit anything else as long and straight and as consistent as I can hit this driver. My Edel putter fitting has helped my putting as well as I used to aim dead right of the cup. Tough to make putts that way.





RH

[deck]

It seems to me that people want facts regarding custom fitting. The person who is preaching "I need facts" also states his opinion on wether or not they will reduce scores for people. He states his "opinion" that he sees people scores actually start to go up. Well sir, I would like to see your facts on this. Or is this just something you have an opinion on? I'm guessing it's just an opinion by you.

[deck]

It seems to me that people want facts regarding custom fitting. The person who is preaching "I need facts" also states his opinion on wether or not they will reduce scores for people. He states his "opinion" that he sees people scores actually start to go up. Well sir, I would like to see your facts on this. Or is this just something you have an opinion on? I'm guessing it's just an opinion by you.

[deck]

It seems to me that people want facts regarding custom fitting. The person who is preaching "I need facts" also states his opinion on wether or not they will reduce scores for people. He states his "opinion" that he sees people scores actually start to go up. Well sir, I would like to see your facts on this. Or is this just something you have an opinion on? I'm guessing it's just an opinion by you.

[deck]

It seems to me that people want facts regarding custom fitting. The person who is preaching "I need facts" also states his opinion on wether or not they will reduce scores for people. He states his "opinion" that he sees people scores actually start to go up. Well sir, I would like to see your facts on this. Or is this just something you have an opinion on? I'm guessing it's just an opinion by you.

[3step]

Whoa!!!

Please slow down and think about what I posted.

I was trying to express from the specialty clubmaker point of view that consumers are inundated with the brand name message, but a specialty clubmaker offers more , and the consumer has a busy life, and needs help from our industry to understand their purchase decision, of what that "more" is, by utilizing labels, branding and packaging, which [u]is provided by every industry that has multi-tier pricing and performance options.[/u]

If you are a skilled fitter/builder, you were good before your customer ever walked into your shop. However, they do not know this. There is nothing wrong with providing the customer some depth as to your experience, skills and craftsmanship. I think the specialty clubmaker would benefit via more customers, more sales, if the industry provided a better way to communicate levels of products and services. This would only give you more time to do what you are good at.

I don't see that this is being condescending to the customer, or being arrogant. I have great respect for the golfer. They pay every single one of my bills, and I learn from them everyday. However, this does not mean that they can't use some help in understanding their purchase options, for both our benefits.

Maybe I said it wrong...? or maybe I said it in a wrong way? I have been in the industry fitting and building clubs for golfers for 30 years, and one of the great reasons why this site is so popular is that golfers are HUNGRY for more information. The OP started this thread because a big chunk of what the OP is asking for is other viewpoints about his experience.

I will gladly retract my post, but please give me some help in understanding where you are coming from.

3step

[Anser3]

[quote name='RRstein82' timestamp='1398749034' post='9193217']
Woah. I haven't checked this in a while (I'm the OP, might be hard to tell after 70+ responses) . . . s*** got real. For the record, I wasn't putting down club fitters at all. I had a fantastic fitting experience with the fitter I worked with (who works for the company who I was thinking of buying the clubs from). My personal opinion is that everyone should get fit. In terms of the custom build, I was curious about if it was worth it for ME, a 31 year old 12 hdcp who plays way more than I should, and that's still only about 2x/week with a range session squeezed in. If I had to guess I'd think custom built clubs are great for tour pros, + hdcp-ers, etc. I get the impression I wouldn't tell the difference, so I'll probably take the specs I got from the fitting and order from Roger Dunn, Callaway, etc. Those specs alone make the fitting totally worth it to me.
[/quote]

Call Callaway and speak to someone in sales (option 2, I believe). order clubs through them and request swingweight (not sure if they will do it but worth a try). You may be able to request options through a sales rep that ou cannot request when ordering online from thei website. I highly recommend Morton's golf. They are on eof the largest Callaway dealers in the country and are top notch people to boot.

[JCAG]

[quote name='RRstein82' timestamp='1398749034' post='9193217']
Woah. I haven't checked this in a while (I'm the OP, might be hard to tell after 70+ responses) . . . s*** got real. For the record, I wasn't putting down club fitters at all. I had a fantastic fitting experience with the fitter I worked with (who works for the company who I was thinking of buying the clubs from). My personal opinion is that everyone should get fit. In terms of the custom build, I was curious about if it was worth it for ME, a 31 year old 12 hdcp who plays way more than I should, and that's still only about 2x/week with a range session squeezed in. If I had to guess I'd think custom built clubs are great for tour pros, + hdcp-ers, etc. I get the impression I wouldn't tell the difference, so I'll probably take the specs I got from the fitting and order from Roger Dunn, Callaway, etc. Those specs alone make the fitting totally worth it to me.
[/quote]

What was the charge for the fitting as in you taking the spec sheet away?

[goobers80]

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1398637486' post='9182661']

There have been 1000's of posts on WRX about this subject, over the years. The most vociferous supporters of "fitting" are folks who earn their living from it ... does that surprise you?

I've yet to see a single poster quantify any significant improvement in scoring, as a result of a club fitting. As a matter of fact, there have probably been more posts by folks who were fitted and then found their scores went the wrong way. Just last week on here, a fitting proponent claimed there was an "academic study" that supported club fitting. I asked him to show it to us ... we're still waiting!

[/quote]

[color=#800080]After i gots fit last year , i won a state tournament ands five stroke play events regionally ands some team events. This year i am being fit to gets more distance outs of my swing. My dad who is inconsistent , gots fitted for a Cobra driver ands i haves seen him hit some of his best drives.[/color]

[fumanchu1]

[quote name='RichieHunt' timestamp='1398708123' post='9188201']
[quote name='Grumpy bumpy' timestamp='1398697079' post='9186757']
[quote name='RichieHunt' timestamp='1398694116' post='9186435']
[quote name='Grumpy bumpy' timestamp='1398646275' post='9183641']
Ritchie, you bring up a good point about MOI matching. Finding the proper MOI during the fitting, and the building a set of clubs to that MOI, is not something the OEMs are doing as of yet.
And, you are right, that most "fitters" do not understand how to fit, based on the swing . But the majority of fitting is done in box stores, or demo days, or by a Pro at a golf course.
How can you expect a proper fitting to take place in an hour? How do you cover all the details, ask the questions, and perform the testing?
[/quote]

I think a big part of the issue is that the OEM's have made it appear that they can basically custom fit clubs for you without the cost or the time. People are always seeking out convenience, so they take this route. And it is killing the custom fitting shops.

I honestly don't think custom fitting should take that long, outside of fitting for a putter by Edel because they are trying to get every detail perfect and the wrench system and the fitter having to squat down and adjust things is going to take time.

I think what makes the process longer for fitters is often due to their lack of understanding MOI matching and balancing. Too easy for a club to feel dramatically different even thought the swingweight is the same. That will require more indecisiveness as to what the golfer wants and works best for them.





RH
[/quote]
Well, Ritchie , Youre right, the small shops like mine, are going under. I hear about it all the time.
So, here is my question to you. You stated that you don't feel like a custom fitting should take that long? With your exception to the rules being for an Edel putter fitting?
My club fittings take about 3 hours. Is this to long for you? There is no indecisiveness about my process.
I am not sure how long, you think, my fitting should take?
I answered a phone call this morning, from one of my customers, asking why my fitting takes 3 hours, when a writer on GolfWRX, says it shouldn't.
You think, that if the process takes longer than an hour, for fitting, it is because the fitter has lack of knowledge and understanding?

My putter fittings take about 1 hour, unless I need to give a lesson during the process.
But, there is no indecisiveness on my part.

Comments like yours are what drives, people to believe they got fitted properly on a Box Store, by someone working part time.
You just made a statement that because my fittings take longer, it must be because I have a lack of knowledge and understanding.
And some people look at the number of posts you make, and automatically assume you are an authority of some sort.
I just spent 2 hours on the phone trying to correct, the misconception you just created.
What a shame.
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Your [i]'I just spent 2 hours on the phone trying to correct, the misconception you just created'[/i] is YOUR opinion. I am stating something that is MY opinion based on MY experience and MY knowledge. So your opinion that I have created a misconception is no more 'right' or 'wrong' than my opinion that it shouldn't take more than an hour. If you and your customer cannot understand that it is MY opinion from MY experience and don't understand how opinions work...then I don't know what to tell you.

Also, from MY experience and having talked to a variety of golfers, I don't know any that are interested in a 3-hour fitting. For starters, hitting that many golf balls is tiresome for a huge chunk of the golfing population. And people have other stuff to do.

In MY opinion from having discussed this with people, they are going to go to big box retailers for club fitting if their alternatives are a 3-hour fitting.






RH
[/quote]

Then true custom fitting isn't for you/these golfers, they should get a half assed golftown session(yes I'm Canadian). I don't mean to be rude, but I truly believe that taking as much time as needed to properly do the job at hand is the way to go.

Go get anything custom fit (I mean truly custom fit) and you will see it all takes time. Example a suit get a off the rack suit tailored to you(to some extent) and it will take a few hours max. On the other hand get yourself a custom bespoked suit and you will actually require several fitting sessions(they re-measure re-fit everything mid way through the process to take any change or slight adjustment needed into account). Bespoked suit(which can run severl thousands) normally take day/weeks to create vs few hours for adjustment.(this also applies to car mods; i.e. custom exhaust, paint, etc.; also applies to pc's, built for gaing, video conversion, etc all require different things and all components have advantages over others and vice versa)

That being said the same thing applies to golf clubs those golfers you speak of that don't want several hours to get custom fit, well, they dont want custom fitted clubs what they want is club slightly tweaked to suit them a little better. Players who truly want a full custom fit and have seen the benefits they provide will not mind the time it takes as properly fitted clubs are important to them.

Also maybe if people don't feel like hitting golf balls for several hours(like you said because it is tiring) then maybe golf isnt for them, as far as I recall golf involves hitting golf balls and can last between 4-6hrs(depending on pace of play of players). Maybe miniputt is more their speed(also dont need a custom fit for it)

A golfer who complains about the time it take to get something fitted or to play a game is like a racecar driver complaining about too much speed; too much dribbling in basketball; everything about golf is time consuming so if you can't be bothered to invest a few hours in something that will improve your said performance(whether yhou score lower or not, you will have better consistency in general after a PROPER fitting session with a QUALIFIED professional who has PROPER KNOWLEDGE and SKILLS) then maybe golf isn't for you, I mean its a game about hitting a tiny ball with a crooked stick hundreds of yards over the course of several hours which includes preparation for shot, re-shot for missed/ob hits, walking/cart for several hundred of yard, reading green, putting(in my case putting again, and probably once more).

I understand that not everyone values everything the same so yes it is possible that for you the benefits of a custom fit are outweighed by a few hours spent getting the fitting done. Some people value professionals who do not hurry them along like if only their cash/time mattered, some like to be attend to and have their fitter insure all was done properly, some just want a run of the mill job.

Thats why handmade items usually carry a heavy price tags, because in general handmade goods will create much more pride, effort, time in creating a truly beautiful unique product vs a machine made items and thats why I own a Gibson les paul and not a 50$ squier guitar.