Worst Opening Hole in Chicago

[Argonne69]

OK, new topic for the week. Zer0 and I were discussing the 1st at Waters Edge. I thought it was an OK hole, but he felt otherwise.

 

A bad opening hole could be due to being too tough, too easy (if there is such a thing), too slow, etc.

 

The first one that comes to mind is #1 at George Dunne. I think it's bad because the left and right tree line are reachable with a driver. It's a pace of play nightmare because you have player slicing/blocking their tee shots into the forest right, or hooking/pulling their shots left. Of course, you then have either the traditional breakfast ball, or a long search in the trees. If you wind up short of the trees, you can still be blocked out, resulting in having to lay back on your 2nd.

 

I finally learned my lesson and use a 3 wood off the tee. I'm never going to reach the green in two, so taking the trees out of play on the 1st shot basically guarantees I'll have a reasonable 2nd shot.

[zer0]

Once you take the trees out of play on the opening shot I don't think #1 at GD is a tough hole. 3w-3w-wedge to a pretty accessible green. In that sense its a similar hole to #1 at Lost Marsh. Once you take the water out of play off the tee its a pretty straight forward hybrid-9 iron for me.


I'm gonna have to think about this one to come up with some candidates. Good topic.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='zer0' timestamp='1402327622' post='9459219']
Once you take the trees out of play on the opening shot I don't think #1 at GD is a tough hole. 3w-3w-wedge to a pretty accessible green. In that sense its a similar hole to #1 at Lost Marsh. Once you take the water out of play off the tee its a pretty straight forward hybrid-9 iron for me.

I'm gonna have to think about this one to come up with some candidates. Good topic.
[/quote]

Agreed. I don't think it's bad because it's tough, rather, it's bad because most players simply smash a driver, and get into trouble, which helps lead to the infamous 5+ hours rounds at the course. It would be nice if the starter would say, "Welcome, gentlemen. This is a short par 5, and I suggest you play less than driver".

As you note, it's similar at Lost Marsh. I generally hit no more than 5 iron off the tee to take the water left/right out of play. However, most players hit driver, and splash. At a minimum, LM should clear the weeds off the bank so it's clear if the ball is in the water.

I believe a good opening hole helps ease you into the round, and doesn't back up the course immediately.

[Gdane]

When I played a couple of weeks ago there wasn't much traffic, so it wasn't a bid deal, but I can see the 1st at Tanna Farms being a problem on a busy weekend. The hole plays as a par 3, 120-150 yards to an island green. If you have some groups chopping it up out there, I'd imagine it can turn into a LONG wait. They make up for it with a par 5 right after than...then again the 3rd hole is a long par 3, again over water.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='Gdane' timestamp='1402329823' post='9459581']
When I played a couple of weeks ago there wasn't much traffic, so it wasn't a bid deal, but I can see the 1st at Tanna Farms being a problem on a busy weekend. The hole plays as a par 3, 120-150 yards to an island green. If you have some groups chopping it up out there, I'd imagine it can turn into a LONG wait. They make up for it with a par 5 right after than...then again the 3rd hole is a long par 3, again over water.
[/quote]

Oh, my. I can't see having a tough par 3 as the opening hole ever.

[VNutz]

#1 at Settler's Hill. Anywhere else on the course and I'd love it, but to start with a 300ish yard downhilller that plays way less than it measures and includes a lake in front that layups easily reach is a bit tricked up IMO. In high school I saw a guy hit a 5 iron layup that just wouldn't stop bouncing onto the front of the green.

I'll also throw in the opening hole at Oak Brook. Boring straight away par 5, but with York Road running along the right side of the entire hole. If you haven't hit balls before hand and you don't know what swing you've got that day it can be dangerous, to multiple people. I routinely see golf balls sitting in the gutter along this road. And if you shy away from the road and play to the left, there's a creek you cannot see from the tee box.

#1 at Waters Edge I don't love, but don't hate. It's a test to start you off that's for sure. It's the people wandering the course on your approach that bother me most.

In general I'm not a fan of opening hole par 5s. If you're not quite loosened up you lose one of your few good scoring opportunities right off the bat. If you birdie it sets a good tone, but that's never a given.

[B-Man]

[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1402326851' post='9459109']
OK, new topic for the week. Zer0 and I were discussing the 1st at Waters Edge. I thought it was an OK hole, but he felt otherwise.

A bad opening hole could be due to being too tough, too easy (if there is such a thing), too slow, etc.

The first one that comes to mind is #1 at George Dunne. I think it's bad because the left and right tree line are reachable with a driver. It's a pace of play nightmare because you have player slicing/blocking their tee shots into the forest right, or hooking/pulling their shots left. Of course, you then have either the traditional breakfast ball, or a long search in the trees. If you wind up short of the trees, you can still be blocked out, resulting in having to lay back on your 2nd.

I finally learned my lesson and use a 3 wood off the tee. I'm never going to reach the green in two, so taking the trees out of play on the 1st shot basically guarantees I'll have a reasonable 2nd shot.
[/quote]

Ha! I read the title before I read this post and was about to nominate this hole. I'm pretty sure the field gets backed up right here from the heroes waiting for the green to clear for their second shot too.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='VNutz' timestamp='1402329978' post='9459603']
#1 at Settler's Hill. Anywhere else on the course and I'd love it, but to start with a 300ish yard downhilller that plays way less than it measures and includes a lake in front that layups easily reach is a bit tricked up IMO. In high school I saw a guy hit a 5 iron layup that just wouldn't stop bouncing onto the front of the green.

I'll also throw in the opening hole at Oak Brook. Boring straight away par 5, but with York Road running along the right side of the entire hole. If you haven't hit balls before hand and you don't know what swing you've got that day it can be dangerous, to multiple people. I routinely see golf balls sitting in the gutter along this road. And if you shy away from the road and play to the left, there's a creek you cannot see from the tee box.

#1 at Waters Edge I don't love, but don't hate. It's a test to start you off that's for sure. It's the people wandering the course on your approach that bother me most.

In general I'm not a fan of opening hole par 5s. If you're not quite loosened up you lose one of your few good scoring opportunities right off the bat. If you birdie it sets a good tone, but that's never a given.
[/quote]

#1 at Glencoe has the range on the right, which has a similar issue to Oak Brook. If you slice or block your shot, you wind up searching forever for your ball in the sea of range balls, or worse, hitting 3 off the tee because the range is OB. It would be nice if they put a high net separating the range from the hole, or at least declare a local rule stating the range is a free drop at the point where the ball crossed.

[VNutz]

I wouldn't mind a range to the right, just not moving cars and a bike/running path. Always makes me a tad uncomfortable, and I'm not even a slicer!

[Argonne69]

It's been a while, but isn't the 1st at Oak Meadows a torture test? I seem to recall a very narrow tree-lined hole requiring absolute precision.

[VNutz]

[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1402333084' post='9459981']
It's been a while, but isn't the 1st at Oak Meadows a torture test? I seem to recall a very narrow tree-lined hole requiring absolute precision.
[/quote]

Very narrow, but not too long. I like the first few holes there, a fun little tree lined test, then it opens up a lot.

[DavePelz4]

Hopefully worst means toughest. I'll submit the first hole at Oak Grove. 445 which can be stretched out to 470. Junk on the left and right, bunker in the middle of the landing area in the fairway. The second shot isn't as bad but there is junk left, fescue on the right and a healthy bunker as well. It's also one of the more difficult greens to read. It's the second hardest hole on the front and then immediately followed by the #1 handicap hole.

[jimwgt26]

My coices are all at courses I really like:

#1 at Orchard Valley and Priarie Landing are a little tricked up for me. Both are short holes with crazy greens.
#1 at Balmoral woods, I always seem to three jack the green.
#1 at Glencoe is just a tough hole.
#1 at Cog 2 is too boring.
I've only played there once, but the first at Oak Meadows is pretty tight, and the green has some crazy slopes. And, I also agree the first at Water's Edge isn't well designed.

[VNutz]

I actually like #1 at Orchard Valley. Pretty simple opening hole, iron - short iron if you want to play safe or 3w/Driver if you want to take it over the bunkers and go for the green. Fair risk/reward every time I've played it, but everybody's different. Only thing I don't like about it is it can back up quite a bit if people are going for the green, that and the par 5 4th green is right next to it. I got buzzed by a skulled wedge from that par 5 once, not fun.

[DavePelz4]

I'm also a fan of the opener at Orchard Valley but think the risk/reward aspect would be better later in the round.

[JakeBarnes]

[quote name='jimwgt26' timestamp='1402336361' post='9460425']
My coices are all at courses I really like:

#1 at Orchard Valley and Priarie Landing are a little tricked up for me. Both are short holes with crazy greens.
#1 at Balmoral woods, I always seem to three jack the green.
#1 at Glencoe is just a tough hole.
#1 at Cog 2 is too boring.
I've only played there once, but the first at Oak Meadows is pretty tight, and the green has some crazy slopes. And, I also agree the first at Water's Edge isn't well designed.
[/quote]

I agree with Prairie Landing and it's my home course. It's a pain in the a** to start on that hole. It never sets up right to your eye and the variable wind conditions (usually pushing at you and toward the water) really is a clusterf*** to start out with. Challenging and fair, sure. Just not the "aw yeah, let's get a good shot to start my day" type of hole: you're either hitting a 4 iron or trying to clear the water with driver/3 wood. Oh yeah... then the green is pretty much a clowns mouth type green. God help you if you are above the hole.

That said... I almost always take the "risky shot" and have recently taken to putting my ball on the green off the tee.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1402335898' post='9460379']
Hopefully worst means toughest. I'll submit the first hole at Oak Grove. 445 which can be stretched out to 470. Junk on the left and right, bunker in the middle of the landing area in the fairway. The second shot isn't as bad but there is junk left, fescue on the right and a healthy bunker as well. It's also one of the more difficult greens to read. It's the second hardest hole on the front and then immediately followed by the #1 handicap hole.
[/quote]

A bad opening hole doesn't necessary have to be tough. It can be bad for other reasons, including slowing down play, or having OB along the sides that penalize a not-unexpected poor opening shot. Of course, a really tough hole like #1 at OG is going to hit on all facets, as it will slow down play, and penalize poor tee shots.

To me, any opening hole that doesn't have a left and right buffer is a hard starting hole, including #1 at Indian Boundary (left), and #1 at Balmoral Woods (OB on right). I played a tournament years ago at BW, and without a proper practice facility, hit a nice block OB on the first tee. Taking a 7 on the first hole was a real crusher.

[putts4bogey]

I was never fond of #1 at Tanna Farms.

[jimwgt26]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1402338001' post='9460611']
I'm also a fan of the opener at Orchard Valley but think the risk/reward aspect would be better later in the round.
[/quote]

I guess the title of the thread is "worst opening holes." I don't think #1 at Orchard Valley is a bad hole, I just wish it was later in the round.

[jimwgt26]

[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1402338755' post='9460683']
[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1402335898' post='9460379']
Hopefully worst means toughest. I'll submit the first hole at Oak Grove. 445 which can be stretched out to 470. Junk on the left and right, bunker in the middle of the landing area in the fairway. The second shot isn't as bad but there is junk left, fescue on the right and a healthy bunker as well. It's also one of the more difficult greens to read. It's the second hardest hole on the front and then immediately followed by the #1 handicap hole.
[/quote]

A bad opening hole doesn't necessary have to be tough. It can be bad for other reasons, including slowing down play, or having OB along the sides that penalize a not-unexpected poor opening shot. Of course, a really tough hole like #1 at OG is going to hit on all facets, as it will slow down play, and penalize poor tee shots.

To me, any opening hole that doesn't have a left and right buffer is a hard starting hole, including #1 at Indian Boundary (left), and #1 at Balmoral Woods (OB on right). I played a tournament years ago at BW, and without a proper practice facility, hit a nice block OB on the first tee. Taking a 7 on the first hole was a real crusher.
[/quote]

I've seen a car get a smashed winshield on the road to the right of Balmoral Woods #1.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='jimwgt26' timestamp='1402338928' post='9460705']
[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1402338001' post='9460611']
I'm also a fan of the opener at Orchard Valley but think the risk/reward aspect would be better later in the round.
[/quote]

I guess the title of the thread is "worst opening holes." I don't think #1 at Orchard Valley is a bad hole, I just wish it was later in the round.
[/quote]

Yeah, that was the general idea. There are some holes that are poorly designed, regardless of where they sit on the layout. Other holes would be fine, except that they don't work as a starting hole for various reasons.

Spoiler alert: Of course next week's topic is going to be Worst Closing Holes in Chicago.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='jimwgt26' timestamp='1402339211' post='9460741']
[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1402338755' post='9460683']
[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1402335898' post='9460379']
Hopefully worst means toughest. I'll submit the first hole at Oak Grove. 445 which can be stretched out to 470. Junk on the left and right, bunker in the middle of the landing area in the fairway. The second shot isn't as bad but there is junk left, fescue on the right and a healthy bunker as well. It's also one of the more difficult greens to read. It's the second hardest hole on the front and then immediately followed by the #1 handicap hole.
[/quote]

A bad opening hole doesn't necessary have to be tough. It can be bad for other reasons, including slowing down play, or having OB along the sides that penalize a not-unexpected poor opening shot. Of course, a really tough hole like #1 at OG is going to hit on all facets, as it will slow down play, and penalize poor tee shots.

To me, any opening hole that doesn't have a left and right buffer is a hard starting hole, including #1 at Indian Boundary (left), and #1 at Balmoral Woods (OB on right). I played a tournament years ago at BW, and without a proper practice facility, hit a nice block OB on the first tee. Taking a 7 on the first hole was a real crusher.
[/quote]

I've seen a car get a smashed winshield on the road to the right of Balmoral Woods #1.
[/quote]

Not me!

[jimwgt26]

[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1402339283' post='9460749']
[quote name='jimwgt26' timestamp='1402338928' post='9460705']
[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1402338001' post='9460611']
I'm also a fan of the opener at Orchard Valley but think the risk/reward aspect would be better later in the round.
[/quote]

I guess the title of the thread is "worst opening holes." I don't think #1 at Orchard Valley is a bad hole, I just wish it was later in the round.
[/quote]

Yeah, that was the general idea. There are some holes that are poorly designed, regardless of where they sit on the layout. Other holes would be fine, except that they don't work as a starting hole for various reasons.

Spoiler alert: Of course next week's topic is going to be Worst Closing Holes in Chicago.
[/quote]

That's easy, 18 at Stonewall.

[DavePelz4]

I'll throw the opening hole at Klein Creek into the mix. OB left all the way, water very much in play on the right and a green that isn't the most receptive.

[zer0]

I was going to mention #1 at Glencoe as well. Trouble in both directions and its uphill to the green so you really can't get away with playing less than Driver off the tee unless you are a real big hitter. For me, even with a great drive I'm still looking at at least a 7 iron to get up the hill.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='zer0' timestamp='1402339819' post='9460805']
I was going to mention #1 at Glencoe as well. Trouble in both directions and its uphill to the green so you really can't get away with playing less than Driver off the tee unless you are a real big hitter. For me, even with a great drive I'm still looking at at least a 7 iron to get up the hill.
[/quote]

Ha! I actually birdied #1 for the first time ever the last time I played it hitting 3 wood and 7 iron (back right pin). Frikin sweet! I always hit driver, and suffered the consequences. I finally wised up and said, "I don't care what I'm hitting for my 2nd shot, I am going to be in the stinkin fairway", and simply smoked the 3 wood.

As an added cherry on top, I birdied #2 for the first time ever. Of course, I had a 4 foot birdie on #3 that lipped out, robbing me of my first ever birdie-birdie-birdie start. I wound up shooting 1 under for the front 9, which was my best 9 there ever.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1402339569' post='9460777']
I'll throw the opening hole at Klein Creek into the mix. OB left all the way, water very much in play on the right and a green that isn't the most receptive.
[/quote]

I agree. It's been a while since I played there, but back then I faded my drives, which always seemed to find the pond, especially during the summer with a stiff southern wind. If I played it again, now that my miss is left, I'd be afraid of putting out a window.

Add to that the old #1 at Seven Bridges. Years ago, before they flipped the nines, the #1 hole ran south from the clubhouse, with the canal along the left, and water on the right. As is the case with KC, there's no damn practice range, so your first shot of the day was a doozy.

[Argonne69]

Technically it's not an opening hole, but #2 at Ruffled Feathers get a big for playing directly into the early morning sun. I can't tell you how many times I've hit a tee shot there, and everyone in the groups say, "Nope, no idea where it went".

[stasek]

[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1402341407' post='9461011']
Technically it's not an opening hole, but #2 at Ruffled Feathers get a big for playing directly into the early morning sun. I can't tell you how many times I've hit a tee shot there, and everyone in the groups say, "Nope, no idea where it went".
[/quote]
Just keep it in the short grass, and you can always find it .

[HighSpeedScene]

I really like prairie landing, and I think 1 is a neat hole, but not as the opener. I would take long and boring over 4 iron, blind wedge. As an opener, of course.