Tour Player's loft's on irons?

[Swoosh-Thud]

The bottom line is a proper swing + SHAFT LEAN and the associated deloft.

Why do you think the majority of Wrxers are "high launch/low spin" looking for a low-low shaft. [b]CAST = [/b][b]No shaft lean. [/b]

The pro hits a normal (old school) 7i @ 37* he comes in at 33* with lean.

Joe GolfWrx comes in spot on at 37* = that in and of itself is a one club difference without even taking into account the ss (real of the pro vs imagined [internet] of the [s]liar [/s]Wrxer). Even with the mfg misstamping the 7i and calling it as a 6i the Wrxer can't keep up.

Post up with your weight on your left heel come, in with hands in front of the ball/club head and you'll not be so overwhelmed.

[Emccance79]

All good points thank you... I noticed that several who commented mentioned that distance is for the most part a low priority for Tour Players... I would argue differently... lets think about this... Tour players are playing VERY long track right? Wouldn't a tour player want a lower #'d iron into a green than a higher lofted one? Having an 7 iron into a green with a higher trajectory and more spin ie. easier to pin point an exact yardage. as opposed to a 5 iron with a lower trajectory and not as much spin would be an advantage wouldn't it?

[drbonesvt]

I think if you would want to really tell look at a specific players WITB, check out their wedges #'s and back into the ptiching wedge from there.

I.E. Rory

Most of the time he doesnt have a 3iron, but 4-9i, his wedge set up is 46, 52, 56, 59 - we can surmise is irons are roughly a degree strong based off that wedge set up.

Like others said its all about gapping, rorys 4i iron is prob closer to a 3 iron. Id say hes at a 30 to maybe 31* six iron

keep in mind some of the new rocket blade this and slot that feature a 28 and 29* six irons - not that tour pros are using those lofts

If you want to see some interesting gapping, look at Quiros - http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-equipment/whats-in-my-bag/2011-08/photos-alvaro-quiros

[XYB34A]

look at the lofts on a set of PING Eye2, the PW was 51.7 I think. For those of us old enough. It was Taylor Made that started the jacked up iron loft thing. IN the late 1980s. I play my irons 2 degrees strong, to lower the ball flight. not to gain a great deal of distance. I think 1 degree strong will gain you 3 yards.

[matchavez]

Minor thing...

Week in and week out, those guys play well-watered courses. It's easy to trust a good shaft lean and make a good divot it you know the ground is going to give. Those of us who play in areas where divots are painful at times would note that sometimes it's better to not lean quite so much, and let the bounce smack off the hard ground.

If I got to hit off that sponge that they do every week, I guarantee I'd send more beaver pelts in the air, and hit my wedges 10-15 longer. For me, I'm the same as some of you other guys... 200-205 on a flat surface, flat landing for a 5-iron. It's not *that* far. However, there are times where you see Henrik hitting an iron when most use a fairway wood... that's when you know that guy can blowtorch a ball. That, and the sound in person is different. It's a little like standing near a train going by...

[Prospero]

Why the obsession with distance? Do you know what's more impressive than a guy that can put a 7 iron within 6 feet from 200 yds? A guy that can put a 7iron within 6 ft. from 50 yds. And 75 yds. And 100 yds. And 150 yds.

[rbhan12]

Pretty positive the commentators know exactly what the yardage is playing on the given day with the tee boxes. This is the PGA championship, they're not gonna screw that up in the coverage.

TV can make mistakes with club selection, but often doesn't take into account conditions. On a humid day like yesterday the ball will travel further.

[matchavez]

[quote name='Prospero' timestamp='1407595268' post='9894585']
Why the obsession with distance? Do you know what's more impressive than a guy that can put a 7 iron within 6 feet from 200 yds? A guy that can put a 7iron within 6 ft. from 50 yds. And 75 yds. And 100 yds. And 150 yds.
[/quote]

The obsession, in a nutshell, is ball flight. If you can hit a 5-iron 170, you have to watch the ball roll in most cases. If you can hit an 8, you can usually stop it where it lands. Also, an 8-iron is directionally easier to hit accurately than a 5.

[MountainKing]

[quote name='matchavez' timestamp='1407593469' post='9894483']
Minor thing...

Week in and week out, those guys play well-watered courses. It's easy to trust a good shaft lean and make a good divot it you know the ground is going to give. Those of us who play in areas where divots are painful at times would note that sometimes it's better to not lean quite so much, and let the bounce smack off the hard ground.

If I got to hit off that sponge that they do every week, I guarantee I'd send more beaver pelts in the air, and hit my wedges 10-15 longer. For me, I'm the same as some of you other guys... 200-205 on a flat surface, flat landing for a 5-iron. It's not *that* far. However, there are times where you see Henrik hitting an iron when most use a fairway wood... that's when you know that guy can blowtorch a ball. That, and the sound in person is different. It's a little like standing near a train going by...
[/quote]

Sponge? Have you ever walked a course in tour condition? A good chunk of them get pretty rock solid by sunday if there's no rain. Some of the courses they'll soften up to let the players score on.

[cehb]

[quote name='rbhan12' timestamp='1407595985' post='9894625']
Pretty positive the commentators know exactly what the yardage is playing on the given day with the tee boxes. This is the PGA championship, they're not gonna screw that up in the coverage.
[/quote]

I've caddied in my fair share of tournaments and I can't tell you how many times when I've come home to watch the recorded coverage and they have got the yardage wrong by 20-30 yards, sometimes even more. I don't know if the network goads them into pumping up the distances or if they are genuinely clueless but I can tell you it happens all the time.

[Wknd_Warrior]

A modern 4i from 200 is a lot of club IMO. OP is a great player, but most tour guys would be hitting a 5 AFAIK, many a 6. I'd hit a 5, and I'm not really that long.

You have to remember there's a lot of things that factor into club selection. Are you going to get a full club of roll once you hit the green? Do you have to try and stop it on a hard green? Are you striping it that day?

Maybe the caddies report based on the loft of the club and the current spec of most clubs. So Even though their guy is hitting the 7, if it's a 39* 7 they report it as an 8.

then there is elevated tees, downwind shots...

So you've got 200 yards downwind from an elevated tee and you need to drop and stop, stripe an 8.

[DLiver]

We all need to get over this. The fact is that these guys hit it miles. I recently caddied in a premier amateur event that attracts many of the top D1 college players in the country. Many of these guys played in the US Open a few weeks earlier. They all hit it LONG. Like drivers 290 to 300 in the air. 220 5 irons. Etc. Etc. I saw this with my own own eyes over and over. There were no jacked up lofts, just a lot of plain vanilla AP2s/S55 etc. These guys are fit, have really efficient swings and swing hard.

I've talked about this with a top 100 teacher teaches a bunch of top college and web.com tour players. He has heard the talk questioning the pro's real distances. He just tells people to go watch a D1 college tournament and see how far they hit it.

We can all make excuses to make ourselves feel better, but the fact is the pros really do hit it deep.

[IHFN]

[quote name='cehb' timestamp='1407506987' post='9887229']
[quote name='Bushwood Country Club' timestamp='1407506494' post='9887149']
This is correct - if you want proof, call the golf shop or golf store and ask them to order you a set of irons with the lofts bent to "tour lofts". They will come 2 degrees strong - I've done it twice, and heard it discussed multiple times among PGA club pros. Now - whether that is 100% accurate or not is a different matter, as I suspect this varies a lot between players -
[/quote]

It could be common among club pros but I'd be surprised if there were more than 2 or 3 world class players who play 2* strong across the board. If you have a look at the GD WITB articles they often have the lofts listed, most are very close to, if not standard. Certainly no one even close to 2* strong throughout the bag (a few strong 4 irons)

[url="http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-equipment/whats-in-my-bag"]http://www.golfdiges...whats-in-my-bag[/url]
[/quote]

Most of the pros played 2 degrees strong in the 90's. That's what lead to the lofts being "Jacked Up" over the last decade or so. Personally, I play 4-GW and adjust the lofts so it's technically 3-PW (I play a 46 PW, 50GW, 54, 58). I have an older set of clubs where the PW is 48 and 3 iron is 23 degrees. I hit the 3 iron 210-215. On my current set I hit my 4 iron the same.

All that matters is whether you know how far each club is going. If you can hit a 7 iron 190...so be it. Just make sure you can hit it that far every time. Distance control is one of the most underrated things in golf. When Tiger was killing everyone, his distance control was absolutely unbelievable. I know if I hit my 7 iron full it'll be 180, but I practice choke down shots and can also hit it 170. It's all about knowing how it will react.

Pin high on every hole will do wonders for your game.

[Emccance79]

[quote name='QEight' timestamp='1407483491' post='9885917']
[quote name='Emccance79' timestamp='1407481691' post='9885889']
I mean I just saw Tom Watson hit a 4 iron on a 200 yard par 3!! I am a single digit hc and my 120 shot is my PW and my 190 shot is my 3 iron. My average ball speed is 120 so I swing well and like to think I am for the most part solid with my irons. But when I PURE my X forged I am not getting even close to the distance that I am reading that other on this site is getting. Standard loft on a player 3 iron is 21* and on a game improvement 4 iron a 21*.
[/quote]

200 yard 3i does not sound excessive, I can do that with my HC of 15.5 (from tee at least). And I have 22* 3i.

What is average ball speed?

edit. sorry you were talking about 200yd 4i, but same thing anyway. Tom Watson is not HCI 15.5, nor 6.8...
[/quote]

True, but he is also over 60 years old and I have and I have 30 years on him. The fact that he can hit an iron longer than me honestly.. VEXES me

[Emccance79]

[quote name='cehb' timestamp='1407625087' post='9897293']
[quote name='rbhan12' timestamp='1407595985' post='9894625']
Pretty positive the commentators know exactly what the yardage is playing on the given day with the tee boxes. This is the PGA championship, they're not gonna screw that up in the coverage.
[/quote]

I've caddied in my fair share of tournaments and I can't tell you how many times when I've come home to watch the recorded coverage and they have got the yardage wrong by 20-30 yards, sometimes even more. I don't know if the network goads them into pumping up the distances or if they are genuinely clueless but I can tell you it happens all the time.
[/quote]

Just so I am clear. you are saying with shot link along with the rest of modern technology that the commentators are off by that much yardage? I personally find that very hard to believe!!

[cehb]

[quote name='Emccance79' timestamp='1414345652' post='10353337']
Just so I am clear. you are saying with shot link along with the rest of modern technology that the commentators are off by that much yardage? I personally find that very hard to believe!!
[/quote]

Yes, I've seen it with my own eyes plenty of times. The accuracy of Shotlink/laser is not in question but the accuracy of some commentating is.

[Happyday_J]

A couple more things to note as well.

They are playing tournament golf, there is some sort of being "amped up". I know myself, playing in college tournaments and provincials, starting the tournament, I am roughly half a club up already, then when I'm in contention, its not uncommon to be as much as two clubs up.

and also in this particular tournament, the PGA at Valhalla, if you recall, it had been raining there, and for the most part, I can't speak for Kentucky as I haven't been there, but from my experience, when it rains in August, it gets very hot and humid afterwards which will also aid in the golf ball traveling further.

So is it possible some guys have lofts strengthened, sure, probably has to do with yardage gaping and the golf ball traveling through a certain window, trajectory-wise. However, there are many other factors that go into club selection, the two mentioned above are just a couple of examples, that we should keep in mind when looking at the clubs guys are using.

[drbonesvt]

[quote name='cehb' timestamp='1414376003' post='10355467']
[quote name='Emccance79' timestamp='1414345652' post='10353337']
Just so I am clear. you are saying with shot link along with the rest of modern technology that the commentators are off by that much yardage? I personally find that very hard to believe!!
[/quote]

Yes, I've seen it with my own eyes plenty of times. The accuracy of Shotlink/laser is not in question but the accuracy of some commentating is.
[/quote]

Spot on here, Ive heard it on NBC, one of the other commentators have correct another analyst on Air that it was playing shorter. Also members attending an event have written into the tournament threads that such and such yardage was off.

I still think these guys are stupid long also, but sometimes its inflated by the TV.

[Golfrnut]

Yeah, I think by default, the announcers take the yardage from the tips and run with it. Same as when they say the total course yardage for the tournament. Most never take into account they play from 3-4 different boxes with 3-4 different depths of pins. Front to back on a green during those tournaments can easily be 30 yards, and that's not counting the ones that really run long.

[MountainKing]

[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1414417013' post='10356715']
Yeah, I think by default, the announcers take the yardage from the tips and run with it. Same as when they say the total course yardage for the tournament. Most never take into account they play from 3-4 different boxes with 3-4 different depths of pins. Front to back on a green during those tournaments can easily be 30 yards, and that's not counting the ones that really run long.
[/quote]

Also include the fact that announces will tell you he's hitting a 9iron only to see when the camera catches the club at the end of the swing you see a 7 on the bottom.

[Hot Rod 71]

I stood next to a par 3 tee box a Quail Hollow during the PGA event a few years ago with my SkyCaddie. From the tee marker to the center of the green was 158 (flag was right, just short of center). The green was about 5-8 yards downhill. Yardage on the card was 178, which was from the back of the back tee box. I measured that as well.

Most guys were hitting 8 and 9 irons in, as to be expected from that distance, and the hole playing downhill.

When I got back to my relatives house that evening and watched some of the coverage, what I heard was interesting.

The commentators were giving a yardage of 178. There were discussing how most players were hitting 8 and 9 irons 178 yards. Clearly they were wrong.

[NRJyzr]

It's worth noting Shotlink data shows the average 5 iron on the PGA Tour is less than 190 yards. For every Gary Woodland, Tony Finau, etc., there has to be someone hitting it considerably shorter.