Tour Player's loft's on irons?

[Emccance79]

OK... I need to know, I am watching the PGA Championship and seeing tour players hitting it a COUNTRY MILE... I know that they are pros and there fitness, shafts and swing speeds are all above the rest. But I am asking if the lofts on there irons are another reason for there distance?

 

I mean I just saw Tom Watson hit a 4 iron on a 200 yard par 3!! I am a single digit hc and my 120 shot is my PW and my 190 shot is my 3 iron. My average ball speed is 120 so I swing well and like to think I am for the most part solid with my irons. But when I PURE my X forged I am not getting even close to the distance that I am reading that other on this site is getting. Standard loft on a player 3 iron is 21* and on a game improvement 4 iron a 21*.

 

So I started thinking to myself... Are the tour players playing Player irons lofted similar to game improvement irons?

 

I would appreciate your input.

 

Again I apologize in advance if there is already a thread on this topic, I couldn't find it.

 

Thank you

[cehb]

Most play standard lofts or close enough to it. There are very few who play strong throughout the bag (Phil used to be one, but I'm not sure if that is the case these days) but there are a few more who play a degree or two weak (Tiger immediately comes to mind).

The most common reason for playing a stronger loft is to fill a gap in the bag, usually the long irons (lots of 4 irons bent strong) but throughout the set it would be uncommon to see more than 1* difference from standard either way.

[QEight]

[quote name='Emccance79' timestamp='1407481691' post='9885889']
I mean I just saw Tom Watson hit a 4 iron on a 200 yard par 3!! I am a single digit hc and my 120 shot is my PW and my 190 shot is my 3 iron. My average ball speed is 120 so I swing well and like to think I am for the most part solid with my irons. But when I PURE my X forged I am not getting even close to the distance that I am reading that other on this site is getting. Standard loft on a player 3 iron is 21* and on a game improvement 4 iron a 21*.
[/quote]

200 yard 3i does not sound excessive, I can do that with my HC of 15.5 (from tee at least). And I have 22* 3i.

What is average ball speed?

edit. sorry you were talking about 200yd 4i, but same thing anyway. Tom Watson is not HCI 15.5, nor 6.8...

[AdamWestAustralia]

This is not a brag though it might come across that way.

I am an 8 index but on a flat 200y par 3 with no wind I would likely play my MP 64 5 iron. I average 181m carry with that (198y I believe) and it is an off the rack MP 64 + .5" long. I would say I am a long hitter but not super long by pro standards FYI I average 113mph with the driver and I think 92 mph with a 6 iron which would be mid pack in PGA Tour speed.

The difference in a strong hitter and what you might find with your distance is the ability to generate that speed and hold the club delivery angles to make sure you don't seriously change dynamic loft as that can increase spin, and launch, restricting distance. Pros are generally very good at delivering the dynamic loft they desire to maximize control their trajectory and distance.

Oh yeah, they tend to hit the centre of the face pretty often and that helps a little too!

[Nuggets]

I'd be looking at a 5 iron for 200 yards off the tee as above but if I'm 200 out on the fw I'll take a 3 or 4 depending on elevation

My irons are usually standard loft with DGX100's or original Rifles

[PGAWill0713]

Some will even add loft to fill gaps properly. Just depends. But in the old days, they were all string lofted, when 48* was norm for a PW

[Nuggets]

I'd assume my lofts are fairly normal then, maybe a degree strong at best given the PW in my set is 47*

[Oldplayer]

Good question. It does make you wonder when the pros hit it so far.
I would guess that it would vary due to personal preference. There are many reasons to vary lofts for an individuals needs. Gaps, desired trajectory etc. You could be sure that getting extra distance from their irons would not be their highest priority.

[tommy89]

200 yard 3 iron isn't far. Not even close. Bet he hits it straight though

[BrianL99]

[quote name='Emccance79' timestamp='1407481691' post='9885889']
OK... I need to know, I am watching the PGA Championship and seeing tour players hitting it a COUNTRY MILE... I know that they are pros and there fitness, shafts and swing speeds are all above the rest. But I am asking if the lofts on there irons are another reason for there distance?


Thank you
[/quote]

The typical PGA Tour professional's angle of attack, is negative 5*. Which means he's hitting a 6 iron, with the approximate loft of a 4 iron.

[GHIN n Juice]

Mark Crossfied did a WITB with Darren Clarke and he said tour standard is 2 degrees strong. However he also said it is not so much about the number on the club but rather having specific distances and gaps.

[rufus mangler]

They hit it really hard.

[killerswing]

[quote name='tommy89' timestamp='1407494033' post='9886141']
200 yard 3 iron isn't far. Not even close. Bet he hits it straight though
[/quote]

As Tommy89 states 3 iron from 200 yards is not even close to long.
I hit my 6 iron 200 yards ( G25 irons with CFS-X )
its not the lofts its the swing and good contact everey time
By the way most irons have stronger lofts compared with 20 years ago.
My G25 4 iron have the loft of a 3 iron 20 years ago...

[setter02]

I wouldn't be worried about there lofts, the fact that they can manipulate the club head in ways you can only dream of is what it more is, that and they are about 1000X more talented than you, even at a single digit cap. Club might have said '4' on the bottom, but what was his loft at impact?

[NRJyzr]

Some play their clubs strong, some do not. As already mentioned, PMick has long had some pretty strong lofts on his irons. Couples was another who was said to have his clubs bent strong, at least in his Tommy Armour years. Then there's the delofting at impact also already posted.

Another aspect is something I've heard a few pros mention over the years. If you were playing on tour, and hitting balls as much as these guys do, you'd gain a club of distance from all that work.

Most years, I lose a bit of distance in the offseason, and gain it back by the end of the season, presumably for a similar reason. Took a while to figure out why I wasn't losing distance, and sometimes gaining a bit, in the cold weather.

[WVP]

What I find odd sometimes is that their listed distances are often different than what we hear in tournaments. Rory, for example, we know hits it as far as anyone. But in the latest Golf magazine, he lists his 9 iron as 155 and 7 iron at 180. That's only 5 yards or so more than my hack distances. Yet he hit his 7 iron on the 215 yard par 3 yesterday. That's a huge difference.

[setter02]

[quote name='WVP' timestamp='1407502578' post='9886659']
What I find odd sometimes is that their listed distances are often different than what we hear in tournaments. Rory, for example, we know hits it as far as anyone. But in the latest Golf magazine, he lists his 9 iron as 155 and 7 iron at 180. That's only 5 yards or so more than my hack distances. Yet he hit his 7 iron on the 215 yard par 3 yesterday. That's a huge difference.
[/quote]

Believe very very little of what you read in those magazines.

I still go back to when GD within 4 months had two of their top tour pro teachers contradict each other completely with their tips. Its all ghost writer crap. Only thing a lof of thsoe mags are good for is the WITB, but this site is putting them to shame on a weekly basis for that.

[cehb]

[quote name='setter02' timestamp='1407502788' post='9886675']
Believe very very little of what you read in those magazines.

I still go back to when GD within 4 months had two of their top tour pro teachers contradict each other completely with their tips. Its all ghost writer crap. Only thing a lof of thsoe mags are good for is the WITB, but this site is putting them to shame on a weekly basis for that.
[/quote]

The WITB numbers come from the players themselves. Numbers broadcast during tournaments can be all kinds of mucked up, you often hear a commentator say 'just a smooth 9 iron' and then get a close up of the club on the follow through and see it was a 7. They are also fond of quoting yardages as if a hole was playing its absolute longest (back tee/pin). Moving up a block, which they often do, and a front pin might make 40/50 yards of difference from the listed yardage.

Having said all that, a 215 yard 7 iron for someone who hits it 180 normally isn't such a stretch. Bit of wind behind, downhill shot and having to land it well short of the pin to allow for harder greens and there you have it. They do hit it miles, Rory in particular, but he's not going to be pulling 7 iron from 215 at sea level in neutral conditions I can guarantee you that!

[MountainKing]

One thing I've noticed is that the TV tends to inflate the yardage of holes, it seems they measure from the back of the tee box rather than where the tee's are and I've also noticed that they often inflate the clubs used. More than a few occasions I've heard Ferherty say the guy is using an 8 iron from 175 and then the camera zooms in on them with the follow through and you see the number 6 on the bottom of the club. You also don't get elevation changes on TV very well, Vallhalla has a lot of elevation to it and you also don't always get the wind conditions from sitting and watching!

[MountainKing]

[quote name='cehb' timestamp='1407504946' post='9886953']
[quote name='setter02' timestamp='1407502788' post='9886675']
Believe very very little of what you read in those magazines.

I still go back to when GD within 4 months had two of their top tour pro teachers contradict each other completely with their tips. Its all ghost writer crap. Only thing a lof of thsoe mags are good for is the WITB, but this site is putting them to shame on a weekly basis for that.
[/quote]

The WITB numbers come from the players themselves. Numbers broadcast during tournaments can be all kinds of mucked up, you often hear a commentator say 'just a smooth 9 iron' and then get a close up of the club on the follow through and see it was a 7. They are also fond of quoting yardages as if a hole was playing its absolute longest (back tee/pin). Moving up a block, which they often do, and a front pin might make 40/50 yards of difference from the listed yardage.

Having said all that, a 215 yard 7 iron for someone who hits it 180 normally isn't such a stretch. Bit of wind behind, downhill shot and having to land it well short of the pin to allow for harder greens and there you have it. They do hit it miles, Rory in particular, but he's not going to be pulling 7 iron from 215 at sea level in neutral conditions I can guarantee you that!
[/quote]

Creepy, we must have been typing similar responses at the same time.

[Emccance79]

[quote name='AdamWestAustralia' timestamp='1407486975' post='9885983']
This is not a brag though it might come across that way.

I am an 8 index but on a flat 200y par 3 with no wind I would likely play my MP 64 5 iron. I average 181m carry with that (198y I believe) and it is an off the rack MP 64 + .5" long. I would say I am a long hitter but not super long by pro standards FYI I average 113mph with the driver and I think 92 mph with a 6 iron which would be mid pack in PGA Tour speed.

The difference in a strong hitter and what you might find with your distance is the ability to generate that speed and hold the club delivery angles to make sure you don't seriously change dynamic loft as that can increase spin, and launch, restricting distance. Pros are generally very good at delivering the dynamic loft they desire to maximize control their trajectory and distance.

Oh yeah, they tend to hit the centre of the face pretty often and that helps a little too!
[/quote]

Good point... On that 200 Yard par 3 I would be hitting a 3 iron and if the pin was in the back my 2 iron (or 2 hybrid) I am looking for distance but do not want to go to a Game Improvement iron in order to do so, Your yardage is actually what would be ideal for what I am looking for... I would even be happy with a once club increase

[cehb]

[quote name='MountainKing' timestamp='1407505391' post='9887011']
Creepy, we must have been typing similar responses at the same time.
[/quote]

Great minds!

[bladehunter]

agreed...my normal swing 5 iron is 200-205....3 iron 225ish off Tee I say ish because if I get after one and turn one over at the same time (draw) 3 iron has been known to fly 235-240 off the tee.... that's with a mp68 iron standard lofts....and that's weaker than most standard lofts..... Its all about where on the face your striking it and angle of attack....my iron angle of attack is around -4 -5* ....so yes delofting at impact...but that's the only proper way to compress the ball into the ground and get distance and height on shots...cant do it coming in shallow and 'helping" it up

[CallawayKid86]

I heard them talking about how much shaft lean tiger has now and Brandel was saying his 6i at impact could be delofted at times to about a 4i loft. Not sure if that is exactly accurate, but those who generate a lot of lag with their hands tend to hit irons longer because of delofting. They also hit them lower. For the Tom Watson example, there could have been a tail wind and the hole could have been slightly downhill. You never really know with TV. They also play the ball to bounce forward and release some due to faster greens. I didn't see the shot personally, but did he fly it 200 and stick it or did it bounce and roll to 200? I am a decently long player and I would typically use a smooth 4i to carry the ball 200 yards. And if it is a par 3 with the pin in the back measured to 200 I am probably going to hit a 5i and let the ball release back a bit.

[Bushwood Country Club]

[quote name='UofU02' timestamp='1407495631' post='9886181']
Mark Crossfied did a WITB with Darren Clarke and he said tour standard is 2 degrees strong. However he also said it is not so much about the number on the club but rather having specific distances and gaps.
[/quote]

This is correct - if you want proof, call the golf shop or golf store and ask them to order you a set of irons with the lofts bent to "tour lofts". They will come 2 degrees strong - I've done it twice, and heard it discussed multiple times among PGA club pros. Now - whether that is 100% accurate or not is a different matter, as I suspect this varies a lot between players -

[cehb]

[quote name='Bushwood Country Club' timestamp='1407506494' post='9887149']
This is correct - if you want proof, call the golf shop or golf store and ask them to order you a set of irons with the lofts bent to "tour lofts". They will come 2 degrees strong - I've done it twice, and heard it discussed multiple times among PGA club pros. Now - whether that is 100% accurate or not is a different matter, as I suspect this varies a lot between players -
[/quote]

It could be common among club pros but I'd be surprised if there were more than 2 or 3 world class players who play 2* strong across the board. If you have a look at the GD WITB articles they often have the lofts listed, most are very close to, if not standard. Certainly no one even close to 2* strong throughout the bag (a few strong 4 irons)

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-equipment/whats-in-my-bag

[bladehunter]

[quote name='cehb' timestamp='1407506987' post='9887229']
[quote name='Bushwood Country Club' timestamp='1407506494' post='9887149']
This is correct - if you want proof, call the golf shop or golf store and ask them to order you a set of irons with the lofts bent to "tour lofts". They will come 2 degrees strong - I've done it twice, and heard it discussed multiple times among PGA club pros. Now - whether that is 100% accurate or not is a different matter, as I suspect this varies a lot between players -
[/quote]

It could be common among club pros but I'd be surprised if there were more than 2 or 3 world class players who play 2* strong across the board. If you have a look at the GD WITB articles they often have the lofts listed, most are very close to, if not standard. Certainly no one even close to 2* strong throughout the bag (a few strong 4 irons)

[url="http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-equipment/whats-in-my-bag"]http://www.golfdiges...whats-in-my-bag[/url]
[/quote]



for sure.... look at tigers lofts... at least up until recently he played a 48-49 degree PW.... that's weaker than most now... youll find a few taylorr made or callaway iron players you could call strong..but they aren't stronger than oem lofts.... tour guys aren't looking for iron distance and they certainly would bring trajectory down with shaft selection not lofts....

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='cehb' timestamp='1407504946' post='9886953']
[quote name='setter02' timestamp='1407502788' post='9886675']
Believe very very little of what you read in those magazines.

I still go back to when GD within 4 months had two of their top tour pro teachers contradict each other completely with their tips. Its all ghost writer crap. Only thing a lof of thsoe mags are good for is the WITB, but this site is putting them to shame on a weekly basis for that.
[/quote]

The WITB numbers come from the players themselves. Numbers broadcast during tournaments can be all kinds of mucked up, you often hear a commentator say 'just a smooth 9 iron' and then get a close up of the club on the follow through and see it was a 7. They are also fond of quoting yardages as if a hole was playing its absolute longest (back tee/pin). Moving up a block, which they often do, and a front pin might make 40/50 yards of difference from the listed yardage.

Having said all that, a 215 yard 7 iron for someone who hits it 180 normally isn't such a stretch. Bit of wind behind, downhill shot and having to land it well short of the pin to allow for harder greens and there you have it. They do hit it miles, Rory in particular, but he's not going to be pulling 7 iron from 215 at sea level in neutral conditions I can guarantee you that!
[/quote]
[quote name='MountainKing' timestamp='1407505333' post='9887003']
One thing I've noticed is that the TV tends to inflate the yardage of holes, it seems they measure from the back of the tee box rather than where the tee's are and I've also noticed that they often inflate the clubs used. More than a few occasions I've heard Ferherty say the guy is using an 8 iron from 175 and then the camera zooms in on them with the follow through and you see the number 6 on the bottom of the club. You also don't get elevation changes on TV very well, Vallhalla has a lot of elevation to it and you also don't always get the wind conditions from sitting and watching!
[/quote]

I had to give credit to both of you.

I've seen this myself. Was watching an event (I want to say the World Match Play, but can't say for sure), players hitting on a 213 or 214 yd par 3. Mark Brooks and Adam Scott. Scott said to be stupid long, Brooks, not that I've ever heard. Both players are announced as hitting 6 irons, boy that's a long shot, etc. Both players follow through allowed the number on the club to be visible on camera, and for both, it was a 4 iron.

Let's also not forget the Trackman averages and Shotlink data, both of which show the average tour pro is hitting around a 5 iron from 185. Of course there are guys longer than that, but that means there are some shorter, as well.

The summary, don't believe everything you see on TV.

A last thought: adrenaline is a lovely thing. Guys will hit distances in the heat of competition that they wouldn't be able to normally.

[GHIN n Juice]

It's also worth noting that the commentators usually get the club from the player's caddy. Caddy's gotta make their guy look good right?

[Sean2]

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1407494129' post='9886143']
[quote name='Emccance79' timestamp='1407481691' post='9885889']
OK... I need to know, I am watching the PGA Championship and seeing tour players hitting it a COUNTRY MILE... I know that they are pros and there fitness, shafts and swing speeds are all above the rest. But I am asking if the lofts on there irons are another reason for there distance?


Thank you
[/quote]

The typical PGA Tour professional's angle of attack, is negative 5*. Which means he's hitting a 6 iron, with the approximate loft of a 4 iron.
[/quote]

Good point. And, welcome back. :-)