Kelvin Miyahira: pro or con

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='lefty57' timestamp='1412629930' post='10244961']
Not an instructor, but you must owe Kelvin a lot of money to make such a brash and arrogant statement ? [b]Which players on the PGA Tour have benefited from Kelvin's instruction ?[/b]
[/quote]


Can't tell how many. His research is public and we see it being "borrowed" all the time, in magazines, on the internet and television. A student of Kel's knows an assistant at one of McLean's schools who said it was the best resource out there. In July, 2013, I personally introduced Grant Waite to the concept of "stalling" rotation (in the context of his own swing), then in March of this year he was on the Golf Channel explaining how he and his student D.A. Points were working on D.A.'s "stalling" problem, starts at 1:20:


[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDJiqyYhyOY[/media]





Jeff

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1412633370' post='10245307']
[b]The funny thing is I can back up what I say.[/b] Can you say the same? You think it takes an "expert" to figure out a strong grip with a really long swing while trying to create a ton of lag can create more distance? Everyone knows how LD guys create speed. The key is that gonna make someone actually better or are LD mechanics good to teach the masses?

[b]How many teachers have you spent extensive time around? How many do you know?[/b] [b]Again I'm 100% certain I have a better grasp of what guys that teach at the upper levels are capable of than you. It's laughable that you could think otherwise.[/b]
[/quote]


Luke is a retiring type, so I'll take over.

Since you've popped off with so much gusto, I won't hold back. One of your students approached me a few months ago. Said he was at wit's end and thinking of giving up the game. In addition to you, he had worked with a couple other "legends" in the eyes of the GolfWRX community. After evaluating the mess you all had made of his swing (and hearing with utter amazement about the gasoline you were continuing to throw on the fire with your "instruction"), I recommended he see Lucas and, in their three or four hour session together, they got great results: his chronic miss was vanquished, although it took a lot of hard and, at times, very frustrating work. It was only one session, and he started playing again before fully ingraining the changes and regressed, so no "case study" came out of it, but they are staying in touch and may work together some more in the future. Like many young aspiring players, money is very tight, and he burned up a lot of cash on instruction that was worthless.

Look, it's simple. Talk is cheap. Having worked with top-10 ranked instructors, top-50 instructors, two PGA National Teachers of the Year, a Hall of Fame player turned instructor, I know what's out there and what isn't. Jim Hardy, Carol Mann, David Glenz, Mike Adams, Stan Utley, Brian Manzella, Dana Dahlquist are a pretty good sample of the "upper level" you are talking about. You're not going to intimidate me with bombast.

Below are two case studies of men in their 30s (Lucas and his student Ryland) with fully developed swings that were transformed to a much higher level: from swing speeds in the 100s, they now generate above tour average swing speeds and have very good control. I've been a consumer of golf instruction for forty years and have never seen anything like it. Lucas has never seen anything like it. Rich Hunt has posted here that he has never seen anything like it, and he's been to more "upper level" teachers than I have. So, if you can document comparable results, let's see 'em. Bring it on, hoss.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGBI3Yisz0s[/media]


[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRoyPYGoYt8[/media]





Jeff

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412636006' post='10245545']
[quote name='lefty57' timestamp='1412629930' post='10244961']
Not an instructor, but you must owe Kelvin a lot of money to make such a brash and arrogant statement ? [b]Which players on the PGA Tour have benefited from Kelvin's instruction ?[/b]
[/quote]


Can't tell how many. His research is public and we see it being "borrowed" all the time, in magazines, on the internet and television. A student of Kel's knows an assistant at one of McLean's schools who said it was the best resource out there. In July, 2013, I personally introduced Grant Waite to the concept of "stalling" rotation (in the context of his own swing), then in March of this year he was on the Golf Channel explaining how he and his student D.A. Points were working on D.A.'s "stalling" problem, starts at 1:20:


[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDJiqyYhyOY[/media]





Jeff
[/quote]

Tod - sounds like you're implying that Kelvin was the first instructor ever to discover "stalling" in the swing rotation ? If true, I find that hard to believe, but once again am not an instructor.
And since Kelvin has been around for a few years, why is he not on the payroll of a few PGA Tour pros if his technique for speed improvement and accuracy would benefit them the most ?

[Ezgolfer]

Popcorns!!

[iteachgolf]

I never said anything negative about their teaching. Just said that I believe a bunch of other guys get people hitting it further and straighter. I had 4 web.com guys DOUBLE their number of cuts made in a year. They all finished top 25 in GIR and improved measurably tee to green. One went from never making a top 10 and losing his card to 5 in his first 10 events on the PGA Tour the following year.

You're the one that chose to make it personal. You try to make a dig at me by bringing up an anonymous student who has taken lessons from countless teachers, admittedly abandoning their ideas, and want to place blame on me? Hell he even abandoned Lucas' advice and regressed. All a teacher can do is give a student direction. Not all students are great students. And no teacher is batting 1.000. Different personalities clash or thrive together. Even if a teacher is right 100% but doesn't reach a student it won't work. Student has to put in the work. My whole point was that you guys implying that these two guys are the only pros getting students hitting it further and straighter is ludicrous. If you wanna make it personal like you have a history of doing and being banned from every forum but your own go right ahead. I certainly don't care what you think or live and die based on your opinion of me.

[iteachgolf]

Since some asked for examples. Here is a "case study" of someone (an adult) making drastic changes in both speed and accuracy in 2 hours (look at the time stamp on the screen shots)

 

 

 

Or this is another student, also an adult, who improved slightly in distance on average and consistency drastically

 

 

 

Or an mini tour player who has made drastic improvements in the last 2 years who picked up 7mph club head speed in an afternoon in these videos. Btw in case you couldn't tell he is an adult with an engrained swing. One who has happened to finish top 30 on the money list two years in a row on the E Golf Tour.

 

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

 

I can post plenty more but I'm guessing you see the point

[Tod Johnson]

[color=#282828][quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1412637657' post='10245727'][/color]
[color=#282828]I never said anything negative about their teaching. Just said that I believe a bunch of other guys get people hitting it further and straighter. I had 4 [/color][url="http://web.com/"]web.com[/url][color=#282828] [/color][color=#282828]guys DOUBLE their number of cuts made in a year. They all finished top 25 in GIR and improved measurably tee to green. One went from never making a top 10 and losing his card to 5 in his first 10 events on the PGA Tour the following year. [/color]

[b]You're the one that chose to make it personal.[/b][color=#282828] [/quote][/color]

[color=#282828]Nonsense. You came out in attack mode and[/color][color=#282828] popped off about how great you were, and could back it up, and said what Kel and Lucas teach, anybody can do. [/color]

[color=#282828][quote][/color][b]You try to make a dig at me by bringing up an anonymous student who has taken lessons from countless teachers, admittedly abandoning their ideas, and want to place blame on me? [/b][color=#282828][b]Hell he even abandoned Lucas' advice and regressed. [/b] [/quote][/color]

[color=#282828]I wouldn't call it a "dig", I'd call it an indictment. [/color]

[color=#282828]There weren't "countless teachers", I think three, and he didn't abandon any of them. The young man played well with the first "legend" for a while, then developed a chronic miss. After six months of trying, the first one could not fix the chronic miss that developed under his tutelage. So, reluctantly, the student moved on. [/color]

[color=#282828]The next two include you and another with a similar philosophy. As before, he dedicated himself to your (plural) methods, and based on the video I saw, it was crystal clear he was doing what you told him to do: one of the most massive hip stalls I've ever seen and a roll release. He was still working with the two of you (or wasn't yet working with anyone else) when he contacted me and it was solely out of desperation. You two could not fix his chronic miss after months or perhaps years of lessons. He likes you guys, but his game wasn't getting any better, and he was running out of time and money. The young man also did not abandon Lucas' advice, he just went out and played and started to "lose it", which happens all the time with players making significant changes. He hasn't followed up with more lessons in part because he doesn't have the money right now. You and the other two "legends" have it.[/color]


[color=#282828][quote]All a teacher can do is give a student direction. Not all students are great students. And no teacher is batting 1.000. Different personalities clash or thrive together. Even if a teacher is right 100% but doesn't reach a student it won't work. Student has to put in the work. [b]My whole point was that you guys implying that these two guys are the only pros getting students hT,itting it further and straighter is ludicrous. [/b] If you wanna make it personal like you have a history of doing and being banned from every forum but your own go right ahead. I certainly don't care what you think or live and die based on your opinion of me.[/color]
[color=#282828][/quote][/color]

[color=#282828]No, that isn't the claim. The claim is that nobody else is taking adults with fully developed, non-elite swings and transforming them into elite swings. The standard is a complete transformation to an elite level, as seen in Lucas and Ryland, not what happened in a two hour lesson by getting someone to release faster (I've had those kind of lessons, too, and the yardage gain never lasts). You said plenty of teachers can do what Lucas has done. You got any of those documented?[/color]



[color=#282828]Jeff[/color]

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='lefty57' timestamp='1412637518' post='10245715']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412636006' post='10245545']
[quote name='lefty57' timestamp='1412629930' post='10244961']
Not an instructor, but you must owe Kelvin a lot of money to make such a brash and arrogant statement ? [b]Which players on the PGA Tour have benefited from Kelvin's instruction ?[/b]
[/quote]


Can't tell how many. His research is public and we see it being "borrowed" all the time, in magazines, on the internet and television. A student of Kel's knows an assistant at one of McLean's schools who said it was the best resource out there. In July, 2013, I personally introduced Grant Waite to the concept of "stalling" rotation (in the context of his own swing), then in March of this year he was on the Golf Channel explaining how he and his student D.A. Points were working on D.A.'s "stalling" problem, starts at 1:20:


[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDJiqyYhyOY[/media]





Jeff
[/quote]

[b]Tod - sounds like you're implying that Kelvin was the first instructor ever to discover "stalling" in the swing rotation ? If true, I find that hard to believe, but once again am not an instructor.[/b][/quote]

Please, call me Jeff. Yep, he was the first to discuss the concept that I know of. Grant had never heard of it.


[quote][b]And since Kelvin has been around for a few years, why is he not on the payroll of a few PGA Tour pros if his technique for speed improvement and accuracy would benefit them the most ?[/b]
[/quote]


Never marketed himself and doesn't like to leave Hawaii.




Jeff

[pinhigh27]

I'm too busy laughing at the sly comparison between KM and Beethoven and Mozart.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412641751' post='10246107']
[color=#282828][quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1412637657' post='10245727'][/color]
[color=#282828]I never said anything negative about their teaching. Just said that I believe a bunch of other guys get people hitting it further and straighter. I had 4 [/color][url="http://web.com/"]web.com[/url][color=#282828] [/color][color=#282828]guys DOUBLE their number of cuts made in a year. They all finished top 25 in GIR and improved measurably tee to green. One went from never making a top 10 and losing his card to 5 in his first 10 events on the PGA Tour the following year. [/color]

[b]You're the one that chose to make it personal.[/b][color=#282828] [/quote][/color]

[color=#282828]Nonsense. You came out in attack mode and[/color][color=#282828] popped off about how great you were, and could back it up, and said what Kel and Lucas teach, anybody can do. [/color]

[color=#ff0000]I never once said I was great. And none of those replies were directed at you. I said I could prove that plenty of teachers get their player to hit the ball further and straighter which I can.[/color]

[color=#282828][quote][/color][b]You try to make a dig at me by bringing up an anonymous student who has taken lessons from countless teachers, admittedly abandoning their ideas, and want to place blame on me? [/b][color=#282828][b]Hell he even abandoned Lucas' advice and regressed. [/b] [/quote][/color]

[color=#282828]I wouldn't call it a "dig", I'd call it an indictment. [/color]

[color=#282828]There weren't countless teachers, I think three, and he didn't abandon any of them. The young man played well with the first "legend" for a while, then developed a chronic miss. After six months of trying, the first one could not fix the chronic miss that developed under his tutelage. So, reluctantly, the student moved on. [/color]

[color=#282828]The next two include you and another with similar philosophies. As before, he dedicated himself to your (plural) methods, and based on the video I saw, it was crystal clear he was doing what you told him to do: one of the most massive hip stalls I've ever seen and a roll release. He was still working with the two of you when he contacted me and it was solely out of desperation. You two could not fix his chronic miss after months or perhaps years of lessons. He likes you guys, but his game wasn't getting any better, and he was running out of time and money, which I was why he approached me. The young man also did not abandon Lucas' advice, he just went out and played and started to "lose it", which happens all the time with players making significant changes. He hasn't followed up with more lessons in part because he doesn't have the money right now. You and the other two "legends" have it.[/color]

[color=#ff0000]I never got anyone to stall and roll it. In fact the goal was to decrease those issues. His goal was to delay his hips in transition so they could speed up later in the downswing. Btw I still talk to the player you chose to bring up and he said today "[size=3]Honestly, I hit it as good as I ever have after our first time together. But just had a hard time replicating it. Think a lot of it was my bodies weakness's at the time....[/size][size=3] I had never hit it more solid. I've told everyone I know that you taught me more about cause and effect than anyone Id been to." [/size][/color]

[color=#ff0000]I'd say your description of what happened wasn't exactly accurate and you tried to make it look like something it wasn't to make me look bad. Problem is you are full of it and at best exaggerated what happened. To insinuate that I took his money, even though I charged him MUCH less than my going rate and he stayed at my house to save on cost is pretty pathetic IMO. Maybe he doesn't have any money to spend due to personal things that have happened recently that require more money.[/color]

[color=#282828][quote]All a teacher can do is give a student direction. Not all students are great students. And no teacher is batting 1.000. Different personalities clash or thrive together. Even if a teacher is right 100% but doesn't reach a student it won't work. Student has to put in the work. [b]My whole point was that you guys implying that these two guys are the only pros getting students hT,itting it further and straighter is ludicrous. [/b] If you wanna make it personal like you have a history of doing and being banned from every forum but your own go right ahead. I certainly don't care what you think or live and die based on your opinion of me.[/color]
[color=#282828][/quote][/color]

[color=#282828]No, that isn't the claim. The claim is that nobody else is taking adults with non-elite swings and transforming them into elite swings. The standard is a complete transformation to an elite level, as seen in Lucas and Ryland, not what happened in a two hour lesson. You said plenty of teachers can do what Lucas has done. You got any of those documented?[/color]



[color=#282828]Jeff[/color]

[color=#ff0000]What do you consider elite? What are their actual on course accomplishments? Again I never once said they couldn't teach. I simply said they weren't the only ones who can. I have multiple players that are adults that have went from high handicaps to scratch and better well into their 30s and 40s. Several have wrote reviews on this very site stating as such. I have a student who averaged 78 his freshman year of college to his sophomore year have the 4 lowest scoring average in the country in his division (70.9) and set several tournament records including shooting -14 in a two day tournament and winning back to back events by more than 9 shots. Was a finalist for the Palmer cup after barley averaging under 80. I've worked with another who went from a high single digit to playing in the US Mid Am and shooting a course record 60 on his home course. Competes against college kids now beating a whole lot of them regularly all over the south east. I could keep going but again I think you get the point. [/color]
[/quote]

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1412642684' post='10246189']
[b]I'm too busy laughing at the sly comparison between KM and Beethoven and Mozart.[/b]
[/quote]


I'm laughing that you're laughing. Luke didn't "compare" Kel to Beethoven and Mozart. The analogy is golfers want to take a two hour lesson, then be able to go out and play like Tiger or Rory.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412641751' post='10246107']
[color=#282828][quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1412637657' post='10245727'][/color]
[color=#282828]I never said anything negative about their teaching. Just said that I believe a bunch of other guys get people hitting it further and straighter. I had 4 [/color][url="http://web.com/"]web.com[/url][color=#282828] [/color][color=#282828]guys DOUBLE their number of cuts made in a year. They all finished top 25 in GIR and improved measurably tee to green. One went from never making a top 10 and losing his card to 5 in his first 10 events on the PGA Tour the following year. [/color]

[b]You're the one that chose to make it personal.[/b][color=#282828] [/quote][/color]

[color=#282828]Nonsense. You came out in attack mode and[/color][color=#282828] popped off about how great you were, and could back it up, and said what Kel and Lucas teach, anybody can do. [/color]

[color=#282828][quote][/color][b]You try to make a dig at me by bringing up an anonymous student who has taken lessons from countless teachers, admittedly abandoning their ideas, and want to place blame on me? [/b][color=#282828][b]Hell he even abandoned Lucas' advice and regressed. [/b] [/quote][/color]

[color=#282828]I wouldn't call it a "dig", I'd call it an indictment. [/color]

[color=#282828]There weren't "countless teachers", I think three, and he didn't abandon any of them. The young man played well with the first "legend" for a while, then developed a chronic miss. After six months of trying, the first one could not fix the chronic miss that developed under his tutelage. So, reluctantly, the student moved on. [/color]

[color=#282828]The next two include you and another with a similar philosophy. As before, he dedicated himself to your (plural) methods, and based on the video I saw, it was crystal clear he was doing what you told him to do: one of the most massive hip stalls I've ever seen and a roll release. He was still working with the two of you (or wasn't yet working with anyone else) when he contacted me and it was solely out of desperation. You two could not fix his chronic miss after months or perhaps years of lessons. He likes you guys, but his game wasn't getting any better, and he was running out of time and money. The young man also did not abandon Lucas' advice, he just went out and played and started to "lose it", which happens all the time with players making significant changes. He hasn't followed up with more lessons in part because he doesn't have the money right now. You and the other two "legends" have it.[/color]


[color=#282828][quote]All a teacher can do is give a student direction. Not all students are great students. And no teacher is batting 1.000. Different personalities clash or thrive together. Even if a teacher is right 100% but doesn't reach a student it won't work. Student has to put in the work. [b]My whole point was that you guys implying that these two guys are the only pros getting students hT,itting it further and straighter is ludicrous. [/b] If you wanna make it personal like you have a history of doing and being banned from every forum but your own go right ahead. I certainly don't care what you think or live and die based on your opinion of me.[/color]
[color=#282828][/quote][/color]

[color=#282828]No, that isn't the claim. The claim is that nobody else is taking adults with fully developed, non-elite swings and transforming them into elite swings. The standard is a complete transformation to an elite level, as seen in Lucas and Ryland, not what happened in a two hour lesson by getting someone to release faster (I've had those kind of lessons, too, and the yardage gain never lasts). You said plenty of teachers can do what Lucas has done. You got any of those documented?[/color]



[color=#282828]Jeff[/color]
[/quote]

You're such a joke. Go back to your cute little website where you guys can bask in your ultimate knowledge that no one else has.

Look at how far back the average tour players swings their driver. You talk about PGA tour speed. Well if you have to swing back 60 more degrees to get close to the same speed, I wouldn't compare those. I can swing like that and add 10 mph to my normal swing too. It's just not playable. I hit one 350 yesterday doing that(ZOMG DISTANCE, ZOMG SWING SPEED). Guess what? It went 30 yards left of where I wanted and ended up OB and I made bogey.

[TheWoat]

So when iteach touts his record, its an attack... Yet when Lucas did it, it wasnt an attack. Logic has left the building

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412642837' post='10246203']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1412642684' post='10246189']
[b]I'm too busy laughing at the sly comparison between KM and Beethoven and Mozart.[/b]
[/quote]


I'm laughing that you're laughing. Luke didn't "compare" Kel to Beethoven and Mozart. The analogy is golfers want to take a two hour lesson, then be able to go out and play like Tiger or Rory.
[/quote]

Your boy doesn't even know what proprioception is. So I'm gonna pretty much ignore everything he says if he tries to use big words and fails to do so in a proper manner.

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1412642811' post='10246197']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412641751' post='10246107']
[color=#282828][quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1412637657' post='10245727'][/color]
[color=#282828]I never said anything negative about their teaching. Just said that I believe a bunch of other guys get people hitting it further and straighter. I had 4 [/color][url="http://web.com/"]web.com[/url][color=#282828] [/color][color=#282828]guys DOUBLE their number of cuts made in a year. They all finished top 25 in GIR and improved measurably tee to green. One went from never making a top 10 and losing his card to 5 in his first 10 events on the PGA Tour the following year. [/color]

[b]You're the one that chose to make it personal.[/b][color=#282828] [/quote][/color]

[color=#282828]Nonsense. You came out in attack mode and[/color][color=#282828] popped off about how great you were, and could back it up, and said what Kel and Lucas teach, anybody can do. [/color]

[color=#ff0000]I never once said I was great. And none of those replies were directed at you. I said I could prove that plenty of teachers get their player to hit the ball further and straighter which I can.[/color]

[color=#282828][quote][/color][b]You try to make a dig at me by bringing up an anonymous student who has taken lessons from countless teachers, admittedly abandoning their ideas, and want to place blame on me? [/b][color=#282828][b]Hell he even abandoned Lucas' advice and regressed. [/b] [/quote][/color]

[color=#282828]I wouldn't call it a "dig", I'd call it an indictment. [/color]

[color=#282828]There weren't countless teachers, I think three, and he didn't abandon any of them. The young man played well with the first "legend" for a while, then developed a chronic miss. After six months of trying, the first one could not fix the chronic miss that developed under his tutelage. So, reluctantly, the student moved on. [/color]

[color=#282828]The next two include you and another with similar philosophies. As before, he dedicated himself to your (plural) methods, and based on the video I saw, it was crystal clear he was doing what you told him to do: one of the most massive hip stalls I've ever seen and a roll release. He was still working with the two of you when he contacted me and it was solely out of desperation. You two could not fix his chronic miss after months or perhaps years of lessons. He likes you guys, but his game wasn't getting any better, and he was running out of time and money, which I was why he approached me. The young man also did not abandon Lucas' advice, he just went out and played and started to "lose it", which happens all the time with players making significant changes. He hasn't followed up with more lessons in part because he doesn't have the money right now. You and the other two "legends" have it.[/color]

[color=#ff0000]I never got anyone to stall and roll it. In fact the goal was to decrease those issues. His goal was to delay his hips in transition so they could speed up later in the downswing. Btw I still talk to the player you chose to bring up and he said today "[size=3]Honestly, I hit it as good as I ever have after our first time together. But just had a hard time replicating it. Think a lot of it was my bodies weakness's at the time....[/size][size=3] I had never hit it more solid. I've told everyone I know that you taught me more about cause and effect than anyone Id been to." [/size][/color]

[color=#ff0000]I'd say your description of what happened wasn't exactly accurate and you tried to make it look like something it wasn't to make me look bad. Problem is you are full of it and at best exaggerated what happened. To insinuate that I took his money, even though I charged him MUCH less than my going rate and he stayed at my house to save on cost is pretty pathetic IMO. Maybe he doesn't have any money to spend due to personal things that have happened recently that require more money.[/color]

[color=#282828][quote]All a teacher can do is give a student direction. Not all students are great students. And no teacher is batting 1.000. Different personalities clash or thrive together. Even if a teacher is right 100% but doesn't reach a student it won't work. Student has to put in the work. [b]My whole point was that you guys implying that these two guys are the only pros getting students hT,itting it further and straighter is ludicrous. [/b] If you wanna make it personal like you have a history of doing and being banned from every forum but your own go right ahead. I certainly don't care what you think or live and die based on your opinion of me.[/color]
[color=#282828][/quote][/color]

[color=#282828]No, that isn't the claim. The claim is that nobody else is taking adults with non-elite swings and transforming them into elite swings. The standard is a complete transformation to an elite level, as seen in Lucas and Ryland, not what happened in a two hour lesson. You said plenty of teachers can do what Lucas has done. You got any of those documented?[/color]



[color=#282828]Jeff[/color]

[color=#ff0000]What do you consider elite? What are their actual on course accomplishments? Again I never once said they couldn't teach. I simply said they weren't the only ones who can. I have multiple players that are adults that have went from high handicaps to scratch and better well into their 30s and 40s. Several have wrote reviews on this very site stating as such. I have a student who averaged 78 his freshman year of college to his sophomore year have the 4 lowest scoring average in the country in his division (70.9) and set several tournament records including shooting -14 in a two day tournament and winning back to back events by more than 9 shots. Was a finalist for the Palmer cup after barley averaging under 80. I've worked with another who went from a high single digit to playing in the US Mid Am and shooting a course record 60 on his home course. Competes against college kids now beating a whole lot of them regularly all over the south east. I could keep going but again I think you get the point. [/color]
[/quote]
[/quote]


I'm not exaggerating at all: I'm telling the story to the best of my recollection. As I said, he likes you, so I'm not at all surprised you still talk and he took the blame instead of you for your failure. He's a very good kid. But his swing was a shambles and his hips did not move AT ALL. He pull-hooked a 6-iron 30 yards with his first swing in Russellville. Wasn't doing that at the end of the session.

What's elite? I want to see a swing transformation comparable to Lucas'. People can play scratch or better with any old swing. Hell, Lucas shot 64s and won state opens with his old mess of a swing. Now, he hits shots he never even dreamed of, and the game is so easy it bores him. Show me a transformation like Lucas', and I'll shut up.



Jeff

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1412643076' post='10246245']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412642837' post='10246203']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1412642684' post='10246189']
[b]I'm too busy laughing at the sly comparison between KM and Beethoven and Mozart.[/b]
[/quote]


I'm laughing that you're laughing. Luke didn't "compare" Kel to Beethoven and Mozart. The analogy is golfers want to take a two hour lesson, then be able to go out and play like Tiger or Rory.
[/quote]

[b]Your boy doesn't even know what proprioception is. So I'm gonna pretty much ignore everything he says if he tries to use big words and fails to do so in a proper manner.[/b]
[/quote]


Oh, please don't! Luke will be devastated!


LMAO



Jeff

[iteachgolf]

So then golf results don't matter? Isn't that the end goal shooting lower scores? I would ask you if Lucas shot great scores and won events then and isn't playing now is he in fact better? How can you prove he is better. Or more "elite" which is a BS description you can move the goal post on. I don't doubt he is longer but if he won events at 108 mph with his old swing and he isn't winning events or playing for a living now, how can you say he is now "elite" and wasn't before.

Elite is shooting low scores and winning events. It's not a look or having numbers on a screen like a video game. Guys going from leaving a school because he averaged 78 and losing all confidence to being a finalist for the Palmer Cup isn't enough for you? Guys who struggled to break 100 who are now scratch golfers not enough? Since apparently anyone can be scratch with any swing. Guys going from low 80s to shooting 60 and playing in USGA events and invitation only am events not good enough?

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412643427' post='10246285']




I'm not exaggerating at all: I'm telling the story to the best of my recollection. As I said, he likes you, so I'm not at all surprised you still talk and he took the blame instead of you for your failure. He's a very good kid. But his swing was a shambles and his hips did not move AT ALL. He pull-hooked a 6-iron 30 yards with his first swing in Russellville. Wasn't doing that at the end of the session.

What's elite? I want to see a swing transformation comparable to Lucas'. People can play scratch or better with any old swing. Hell, Lucas shot 64s and won state opens with his old mess of a swing. Now, he hits shots he never even dreamed of, [b]and the game is so easy it bores him[/b]. Show me a transformation like Lucas', and I'll shut up.



Jeff
[/quote]

LOL THIS IS HILARIOUS. Clearly he's not bored enough to win millions on tour. Too easy, right?

The fact you think you can honestly tell me this no name random that I've never heard of is some stud and then compare his accomplishments to Dan, that's laughable to say the least. Talk to me when your boy actually coaches someone that can play(ie tour level), not just random hacks.

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1412643747' post='10246321']
So then golf results don't matter? Isn't that the end goal shooting lower scores? I would ask you if Lucas shot great scores and won events then and isn't playing now is he in fact better? How can you prove he is better. Or more "elite" which is a BS description you can move the goal post on. I don't doubt he is longer but if he won events at 108 mph with his old swing and he isn't winning events or playing for a living now, how can you say he is now "elite" and wasn't before.

Elite is shooting low scores and winning events. It's not a look or having numbers on a screen like a video game.
[/quote]


Just put up a complete swing transformation comparable to Lucas or Ryland, not some guy you got to release faster during a lesson.




Jeff

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1412643981' post='10246353']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412643427' post='10246285']
I'm not exaggerating at all: I'm telling the story to the best of my recollection. As I said, he likes you, so I'm not at all surprised you still talk and he took the blame instead of you for your failure. He's a very good kid. But his swing was a shambles and his hips did not move AT ALL. He pull-hooked a 6-iron 30 yards with his first swing in Russellville. Wasn't doing that at the end of the session.

What's elite? I want to see a swing transformation comparable to Lucas'. People can play scratch or better with any old swing. Hell, Lucas shot 64s and won state opens with his old mess of a swing. Now, he hits shots he never even dreamed of, [b]and the game is so easy it bores him[/b]. Show me a transformation like Lucas', and I'll shut up.



Jeff
[/quote]

LOL THIS IS HILARIOUS. Clearly he's not bored enough to win millions on tour. Too easy, right?

The fact you think you can honestly tell me this no name random that I've never heard of is some stud and then compare his accomplishments to Dan, that's laughable to say the least. Talk to me when your boy actually coaches someone that can play(ie tour level), not just random hacks.
[/quote]


All Dan has to do is produce the goods. Lucas already has.




Jeff

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412644006' post='10246359']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1412643747' post='10246321']
So then golf results don't matter? Isn't that the end goal shooting lower scores? I would ask you if Lucas shot great scores and won events then and isn't playing now is he in fact better? How can you prove he is better. Or more "elite" which is a BS description you can move the goal post on. I don't doubt he is longer but if he won events at 108 mph with his old swing and he isn't winning events or playing for a living now, how can you say he is now "elite" and wasn't before.

Elite is shooting low scores and winning events. It's not a look or having numbers on a screen like a video game.
[/quote]


Just put up a complete swing transformation comparable to Lucas or Ryland, not some guy you got to release faster during a lesson.




Jeff
[/quote]

Lol you act like his transformation is for the good. Apparently being a good am and winning state events while swinging 108 sucks, but swinging 45 * past parallel, getting a much longer driver and hitting 120, yeah that's the key to success.

Now I'm sure you're trolling

[bph7]

I used to wonder: how could such a sad and pathetic forum as Jeffy's exist, which is nothing more than a 12 person circle jerk being angry about anyone and everyone who wasn't them. Now, I understand, it's cuz no one else but their group of 12 members can tolerate these people. So I did learn something from this thread.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412644006' post='10246359']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1412643747' post='10246321']
So then golf results don't matter? Isn't that the end goal shooting lower scores? I would ask you if Lucas shot great scores and won events then and isn't playing now is he in fact better? How can you prove he is better. Or more "elite" which is a BS description you can move the goal post on. I don't doubt he is longer but if he won events at 108 mph with his old swing and he isn't winning events or playing for a living now, how can you say he is now "elite" and wasn't before.

Elite is shooting low scores and winning events. It's not a look or having numbers on a screen like a video game.
[/quote]


Just put up a complete swing transformation comparable to Lucas or Ryland, not some guy you got to release faster during a lesson.




Jeff
[/quote]

What do you possibly mean "release faster". I can post plenty of swings but again you keep moving the goal post. Elite isn't a look. It's results. I posted plenty of results that are verifiable. Yet you can't actually prove Lucas is more "elite" except by how a swing looks based on your own beliefs and club head speed. Like I said if he won before and isn't winning now how is his swing actually better?

[iteachgolf]

 

BTW Jeffy the person you used to try and slander me with said that he never hit the ball better than after he saw me. Maybe you missed that part?

[JPGolf FL]

[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412644056' post='10246371']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1412643981' post='10246353']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412643427' post='10246285']
I'm not exaggerating at all: I'm telling the story to the best of my recollection. As I said, he likes you, so I'm not at all surprised you still talk and he took the blame instead of you for your failure. He's a very good kid. But his swing was a shambles and his hips did not move AT ALL. He pull-hooked a 6-iron 30 yards with his first swing in Russellville. Wasn't doing that at the end of the session.

What's elite? I want to see a swing transformation comparable to Lucas'. People can play scratch or better with any old swing. Hell, Lucas shot 64s and won state opens with his old mess of a swing. Now, he hits shots he never even dreamed of, [b]and the game is so easy it bores him[/b]. Show me a transformation like Lucas', and I'll shut up.



Jeff
[/quote]

LOL THIS IS HILARIOUS. Clearly he's not bored enough to win millions on tour. Too easy, right?

The fact you think you can honestly tell me this no name random that I've never heard of is some stud and then compare his accomplishments to Dan, that's laughable to say the least. Talk to me when your boy actually coaches someone that can play(ie tour level), not just random hacks.
[/quote]


All Dan has to do is produce the goods. Lucas already has.




Jeff
[/quote]
So to be clear, the "goods" are a look and not winning money and tournaments right? Seriously jeffy, you may want to talk to Lucas and kelvin before going all in here. This is a hobby for you and it's their livelihood.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='JPGolf FL' timestamp='1412644630' post='10246445']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412644056' post='10246371']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1412643981' post='10246353']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412643427' post='10246285']
I'm not exaggerating at all: I'm telling the story to the best of my recollection. As I said, he likes you, so I'm not at all surprised you still talk and he took the blame instead of you for your failure. He's a very good kid. But his swing was a shambles and his hips did not move AT ALL. He pull-hooked a 6-iron 30 yards with his first swing in Russellville. Wasn't doing that at the end of the session.

What's elite? I want to see a swing transformation comparable to Lucas'. People can play scratch or better with any old swing. Hell, Lucas shot 64s and won state opens with his old mess of a swing. Now, he hits shots he never even dreamed of, [b]and the game is so easy it bores him[/b]. Show me a transformation like Lucas', and I'll shut up.



Jeff
[/quote]

LOL THIS IS HILARIOUS. Clearly he's not bored enough to win millions on tour. Too easy, right?

The fact you think you can honestly tell me this no name random that I've never heard of is some stud and then compare his accomplishments to Dan, that's laughable to say the least. Talk to me when your boy actually coaches someone that can play(ie tour level), not just random hacks.
[/quote]


All Dan has to do is produce the goods. Lucas already has.




Jeff
[/quote]
So to be clear, the "goods" are a look and not winning money and tournaments right? Seriously jeffy, you may want to talk to Lucas and kelvin before going all in here. This is a hobby for you and it's their livelihood.
[/quote]

winning money and tournies is too easy man... boring. gotta chase visuals and SS numbers instead, that's where all the cool kids are.

[GAL007]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1412643981' post='10246353']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412643427' post='10246285']




I'm not exaggerating at all: I'm telling the story to the best of my recollection. As I said, he likes you, so I'm not at all surprised you still talk and he took the blame instead of you for your failure. He's a very good kid. But his swing was a shambles and his hips did not move AT ALL. He pull-hooked a 6-iron 30 yards with his first swing in Russellville. Wasn't doing that at the end of the session.

What's elite? I want to see a swing transformation comparable to Lucas'. People can play scratch or better with any old swing. Hell, Lucas shot 64s and won state opens with his old mess of a swing. Now, he hits shots he never even dreamed of, [b]and the game is so easy it bores him[/b]. Show me a transformation like Lucas', and I'll shut up.



Jeff
[/quote]

LOL THIS IS HILARIOUS. Clearly he's not bored enough to win millions on tour. Too easy, right?

The fact you think you can honestly tell me this no name random that I've never heard of is some stud and then compare his accomplishments to Dan, that's laughable to say the least. Talk to me when your boy actually coaches someone that can play(ie tour level), not just random hacks.
[/quote]


I have an 8 month old daughter. Sometimes at dinner, she will grab her spoon full of baby food and try to chew on the metal handle. I used to think that was pretty silly but it pales in comparison to the silliness contained in this statement. ( Sorry to quote your post pinhigh, the full one was way too long )

[markponi]

Show us the transformation iTeach!

I wonder if Kelvin digs Jeffypoo's free advertising.

[Tod Johnson]

 

BTW Jeffy the person you used to try and slander me with said that he never hit the ball better than after he saw me. Maybe you missed that part?

 

 

I saw that. He said it was after the first lesson. Then it went away. I'm amused you'd even post that, let alone come back and brag about it. We aren't about hitting it "great" after one lesson, then never seeing it again. I've been there and it is just wasted time and money.

 

 

 

Jeff

[Tod Johnson]

[quote name='GAL007' timestamp='1412645315' post='10246531']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1412643981' post='10246353']
[quote name='Tod Johnson' timestamp='1412643427' post='10246285']
I'm not exaggerating at all: I'm telling the story to the best of my recollection. As I said, he likes you, so I'm not at all surprised you still talk and he took the blame instead of you for your failure. He's a very good kid. But his swing was a shambles and his hips did not move AT ALL. He pull-hooked a 6-iron 30 yards with his first swing in Russellville. Wasn't doing that at the end of the session.

What's elite? I want to see a swing transformation comparable to Lucas'. People can play scratch or better with any old swing. Hell, Lucas shot 64s and won state opens with his old mess of a swing. Now, he hits shots he never even dreamed of, [b]and the game is so easy it bores him[/b]. Show me a transformation like Lucas', and I'll shut up.



Jeff
[/quote]

LOL THIS IS HILARIOUS. Clearly he's not bored enough to win millions on tour. Too easy, right?

The fact you think you can honestly tell me this no name random that I've never heard of is some stud and then compare his accomplishments to Dan, that's laughable to say the least. Talk to me when your boy actually coaches someone that can play(ie tour level), not just random hacks.
[/quote]


I have an 8 month old daughter. Sometimes at dinner, she will grab her spoon full of baby food and try to chew on the metal handle. [b]I used to think that was pretty silly but it pales in comparison to the silliness contained in this statement.[/b] ( Sorry to quote your post pinhigh, the full one was way too long )
[/quote]


Yeah, I misspoke there. Hitting high-quality golf shots is so easy it bores him. That allows him to play at a decent level (high 60s) without any kind of short game and putting, or even a need to practice. But we all know golf is more than ballstriking: golf isn't golf swing. Where Lucas excels, and what his teaching is all about, is elite ballstriking.




Jeff