Back to life, back to reality (blades for me)

[Bigmean]

[quote name='Chuck_22046' timestamp='1414252804' post='10348967']
[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1414251209' post='10348843']
[quote name='Chuck_22046' timestamp='1414243904' post='10348491']
For me...what is good, what makes this game fun, and what makes this game (to be frank) the drug that it is...was stated by Hogan himself:

“… a well hit golf shot as a feeling that goes up the shaft, right into your hands-and into your heart.”

Nothing but a blade will give me that high...and I chase it every time I pick up a club
[/quote]

BOOM. This.......
[/quote]

Me and the 709's have a date this afternoon on the range...I shall report back with my thoughts!
[/quote]

I was testing my rib (broke it and not ready to play yet) hitting 1/2 PWs along the canal behind my house last night with my new to me vegas. I liked what I felt....In my hands, not in my chest

When you say 709s, you mean the tourstage 709s???? Those irons look freaking SICK as hell.... I can feel them from here.

[Chuck_22046]

[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1414253365' post='10349017']
[quote name='Chuck_22046' timestamp='1414252804' post='10348967']
[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1414251209' post='10348843']
[quote name='Chuck_22046' timestamp='1414243904' post='10348491']
For me...what is good, what makes this game fun, and what makes this game (to be frank) the drug that it is...was stated by Hogan himself:

“… a well hit golf shot as a feeling that goes up the shaft, right into your hands-and into your heart.”

Nothing but a blade will give me that high...and I chase it every time I pick up a club
[/quote]

BOOM. This.......
[/quote]

Me and the 709's have a date this afternoon on the range...I shall report back with my thoughts!
[/quote]

I was testing my rib (broke it and not ready to play yet) hitting 1/2 PWs along the canal behind my house last night with my new to me vegas. I liked what I felt....In my hands, not in my chest

When you say 709s, you mean the tourstage 709s???? Those irons look freaking SICK as hell.... I can feel them from here.
[/quote]

I covet those Tourstage 709's like few others...but no. My only Tourstage experience is with the TS-202's. A club WAY ahead of it's time...with some slick leading and trailing edge grinds. Great sticks!

I was referring to my Tommy Armour Silver Scot Collector PGA Reg. 709's. And after reading the full name, you can probably appreciate why I just said 709's. I previously posted this pic...but here one is.

[attachment=2472699:image2.JPG]

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1414235166' post='10348113']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1414222783' post='10347971']
[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1414211177' post='10347661']
Seriously, If your a good ballstriker if a blade or cb is NOT the difference between being wet or not...... A bad shot for a BALLSTRIKER is short fringe as compared to pin high.


I am not a great scorer. I have blow up holes. I putt like a 3 hcp, I iron play probably the same, I am really like a 15 hcp. Off the tee and my chipping is anywhere from good to below what it should be, and hence my handicap. As far as this thread is concerned, I can't believe anyone who really strikes the ball well sees any benefit from cbs to blades, we are talking half a club or full club on mishits, and shirt birdie putts on well struck shots. They even out and then some. This is getting dumb. When I miss irons, it is my club head through impact, not hitting the sweetspot or near it with a descending blow, if that is the case, blade or not is irrelevant. I prefer the feel and discipline of blades, but to each their own. The blade naysayers act as though a "mishit" is the same mishit a high 80s golfer has, which is not the case for ballstrikers. Ballstrikers mis with club head through the impact zone not from missing the sweetspot Iin a detrimental way.
[/quote]

Amen to everything!

It is very dumb as you mentioned and insulting to the numerous golfers, that have their own experience with blades/MBs and are simply sharing their genuine experiences, when it is suggested that they are losing strokes by using them, or worse that they play blades/MBs for ego or lack of their own ability to judge what is best for their own games.
[/quote]

That is what I could not say eloquently as you did in my drunken post las night!

I also think that it is difficult to even know engineering and technical benefits because we have been totally brainwashed by golf marketing for so long that I am sure some things are accepted as fact that may not be so and visa versa, and I mean by us all.

On a funny side note, I won an offer on a set of CB heads last night! Hahahaha. $215 for kyoei catolog heads, why notr?
[/quote]

You do some eloquent posting yourself, sir. With or without being on the "swing lube".

To your point about understanding the technical side, it is very difficult to know and sift your way through the engineering benefits (and lack thereof) because simply it is complicated and requires a lot of technical and mathematical comprehension. To fully understand the physics and chemistry of golf you need the following:[list]
[*]Advanced calculus. You need to understand how to solve multivariable (vector) calculus (a.k.a. differential equations). This is foundation to the further topics because you need to be able to calculate the magnitude of an engineered feature. It may be theoretically beneficial, but by mathematical calculation it may be insignificant.
[*]Statistical process control and probability. You need this also to sift through the significance of a theoretical design feature. The statistics plays into the math as well as the calculus.
[*]Advanced physics. Specifically you need to know Newton's laws of motion (angular and linear), elastic collisions, conservation of energy, Hooke's law, compression physics, impact physics,
[*]Advanced structural engineering. Specifically you need to know how to do point force balance calculations on a ball and clubface during impact. You need to know this to understand how a shaft will twist and bend.
[*]Materials science and chemistry. Specifically you need to know what is happening during ball and clubface compression at the molecular level. You need to know the nature of molecular structure of a metal and a polymer and how these materials behave in a collision.
[*]Advanced aerodynamics/fluid mechanics - Specifically you need to know how air flows across a curved surface and how air turbulence influences the ball in flight.
[/list]
If you don't know even parts of all this, then yes, you will easily be brainwashed by the marketing BS and quasi-physics presented to the consumer. That's why it is so easy to dupe a consumer in golf. MOI, gear effect, shaft torque, forgiveness...LOL any theory can be thrown on the table and the majority of golfers have no clue as to their significance in the real world.

End result? Lots of clubs being bought and sold. Ebay flooded. Golfwrx BST forum. Confused consumers.

[Emccance79]

I actually am thinking the opposite. Going midsize. I'm a 4hc and this game is hard enough as it is

[Bigmean]

Chuck, you are truly awesome for pumping those at the range.

And I thought it was hard core when I bring my arnold palmer Standards out to play and hit balls

As far as the technolgy stuff, that is why I go with feel. Also, lets face it, all legal technology is never going to ever be a real advantage over anything else that is also legal. And no one talkes about it, but the ball has had more to do with serious performance differences than any iron advancement in the last 20 years anyway......

[Startzel]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1414117983' post='10342143']
For determining a golfer's "best choice" of iron type, unless you do a side by side and statistically relevant comparison, this cannot be determined by anybody. I think that the best choice is ultimately up to the golfer, and any outside observer, whether teacher or fitter or friend or not, may not be the best for advice on the decision. Ultimately my point is that the "best choice" is definitely an individual thing.
[/quote]

This is my biggest issue with this debate. How can anyone believe that the golfer is going to know more about swing mechanics than a qualified fitter?

It's no different than going to the doctor. Yes I might know my body better than anyone, but a doctor will always be better able to diagnose my illness than I am.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1414260129' post='10349499']
Chuck, you are truly awesome for pumping those at the range.

And I thought it was hard core when I bring my arnold palmer Standards out to play and hit balls
[/quote]

Yeah I'm so not worthy hitting my "cavity" cut muscle MP-67s. They are practically SGI shovels compared to Chuck's Tommys. I've read a lot of great things about the Silver Scots.

Too many blades to try. So little time (and money!).

[Chuck_22046]

[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1414260129' post='10349499']
Chuck, you are truly awesome for pumping those at the range.

And I thought it was hard core when I bring my arnold palmer Standards out to play and hit balls

As far as the technolgy stuff, that is why I go with feel. Also, lets face it, all legal technology is never going to ever be a real advantage over anything else that is also legal. And no one talkes about it, but the ball has had more to do with serious performance differences than any iron advancement in the last 20 years anyway......
[/quote]
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1414260521' post='10349527']
[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1414260129' post='10349499']
Chuck, you are truly awesome for pumping those at the range.

And I thought it was hard core when I bring my arnold palmer Standards out to play and hit balls
[/quote]

Yeah I'm so not worthy hitting my "cavity" cut muscle MP-67s. They are practically SGI shovels compared to Chuck's Tommys. I've read a lot of great things about the Silver Scots.

Too many blades to try. So little time (and money!).
[/quote]

I actually have a set of those Palmer Standards, but never hit them....

I have played these before, and they are shockingly forgiving considering how they actually look. The only reservation I have about them is the leading edge. My swing isn't steep...and I am firmly in the sweeper camp with it comes to that, but with these I am pretty sure I will be getting a strongly worded letter from the course superintendent if I am not careful.

And those MP-67's....you most certainly need an "A" game to rock those. Make no mistake!!

And on the "forgiveness" bit...I am developing a theory about that. To me there are two things to consider club wise. (Aside from the feel and performance issue).

1) Forgiveness....where the club gives a serviceable shot and does not require a "pure" strike to do so...
2) Compensation...where the club, primarily by it's design enhances the players ability to do what they wish.

The best example I can think of would be perhaps a leading edge grind on a blade...I am thinking maybe the D/D grind of a Scratch? My beloved TS-202's have that kind of grind...and it's handy to have.

This pet theory is still in it's formative stages mind you...but it's kind of where my thoughts are wandering at the moment

[Bigmean]

[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1414260360' post='10349511']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1414117983' post='10342143']
For determining a golfer's "best choice" of iron type, unless you do a side by side and statistically relevant comparison, this cannot be determined by anybody. I think that the best choice is ultimately up to the golfer, and any outside observer, whether teacher or fitter or friend or not, may not be the best for advice on the decision. Ultimately my point is that the "best choice" is definitely an individual thing.
[/quote]

This is my biggest issue with this debate. How can anyone believe that the golfer is going to know more about swing mechanics than a qualified fitter?

It's no different than going to the doctor. Yes I might know my body better than anyone, but a doctor will always be better able to diagnose my illness than I am.
[/quote]

Golf is mental. No better feeling than walking up to a 12 ft. putt and knowing you are dropping it from the time you see it on the green until you put it in the heart, or visualize that cut or draw from behind the ball in the fairway and then hit exactly what you just saw in your mind. Golf is mind over matter more than matter over mind.

Maybe I dont care about what a launch monitor says about God knows what or what a fitter says is the best clubhead for me to look at and feel all round. Maybe rolling up to the range in sandals and hitting some pure shots with a pure forged iron and grinning after each one is what I like about golf. I would rather be a 10 Hcp and play real irons than a 5 and play dead ones, but fortunatly my experience is exactly what I have been saying this entire thread, it is 100% the opposite....

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1414260360' post='10349511']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1414117983' post='10342143']
For determining a golfer's "best choice" of iron type, unless you do a side by side and statistically relevant comparison, this cannot be determined by anybody. I think that the best choice is ultimately up to the golfer, and any outside observer, whether teacher or fitter or friend or not, may not be the best for advice on the decision. Ultimately my point is that the "best choice" is definitely an individual thing.
[/quote]

This is my biggest issue with this debate. How can anyone believe that the golfer is going to know more about swing mechanics than a qualified fitter?

It's no different than going to the doctor. Yes I might know my body better than anyone, but a doctor will always be better able to diagnose my illness than I am.
[/quote]

Yeah then how come there are tons of guys in this thread that were fitted for GI clubs and learned that the club didn't help them? Answer: A fitting does not constitute judging how well a golfer will score with their club over the long haul. A fitter has no clue about this. They only fit the club specs, not the club type, to the golfer based on his physical makeup, swing speed, and tempo. They do all this in what, an hour's time? Sorry, but nobody is going to be able to judge how good I will score with a club during the time of a fitting.

You are also saying that any player that knows his swing should just let the fitter decide on what club that golfer should play. This includes good players that truly understand their swing mechanics. They still go to fitters. I'm sorry but a fitter is highly qualified to get lie angles and swing weights and such right, but to reiterate they may not be the best judge of how good one club or another can help you score. They simply can fit you for any club type out there. I'm sure I could get fit perfectly for a GI club, but it doesn't mean that's the best scoring club for me.

Also a good doctor (I'm the child of two of them) will work with a patient and understands their needs first. The good ones work with the patient long term and don't just cure the patient with formulaic solutions. They listen to the patient and try to understand their perspective as well as the technical cure. The patient's knowledge is just as key to the cure as well as the doctor's. A good doctor knows this and also knows he should not just follow a prescribed solution. A lot of symptoms are common across different ailments. Blindly following a formula without knowing the patient better can lead to a disastrous cure.

[Bigmean]

Your #2 is interesting as GI clubs detract from that......

As far as acceptable shot away from center, I think my sets of newer blades (by newer I mean MP 14s newer, so last 15-20 years) are not really that much less forgiving than the only CBs I have played enough to comment about, titliest 962s. You can get feedback of a miss on a blade, and the ball will still go more or less the shape and accuracy just shorter the further you miss.

I will say, I had the fourteen FH1000s for a brief stint, and I hated them feel wise and at address, but they were long and mishits literally lost 2 yards. They were more fogiving than my 962s for a fact and they are blades so to argue blades are always less forgiving is incorrect from my personal expereince. Of course IMO, that forgivness came with the cost of the look and the feel that was not worth the tradeoff to me.

[Chuck_22046]

[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1414260360' post='10349511']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1414117983' post='10342143']
For determining a golfer's "best choice" of iron type, unless you do a side by side and statistically relevant comparison, this cannot be determined by anybody. I think that the best choice is ultimately up to the golfer, and any outside observer, whether teacher or fitter or friend or not, may not be the best for advice on the decision. Ultimately my point is that the "best choice" is definitely an individual thing.
[/quote]

This is my biggest issue with this debate. How can anyone believe that the golfer is going to know more about swing mechanics than a qualified fitter?

It's no different than going to the doctor. Yes I might know my body better than anyone, but a doctor will always be better able to diagnose my illness than I am.
[/quote]

Well...first, we aren't exactly debating. This is more or less expressing opinions and sharing our experiences. Regarding the fitter comment. I have yet to go to a fitter (granted I have only been to one 5 times...so maybe not a good test sample), who tried to either talk me into, or out of a particular set of clubs. Further, I have never had one tell me the following:

1) How a club feels when I hit it
2) How a club SHOULD feel when I hit it

I have however taken a checkup lesson or 2 where the instructor or teacher has tried to change my equipment. Usually, the "seriously" look puts a stop to that. I am, admittedly more than a little stubborn about some things.

But having said that when it comes to equipment selection I got very tired of people trying to [b]sell[/b] me something...making a recommendation? sure...but when the conversation starts with "Try this...you will get X more yards" or "These feel so much better than those old things"

[Chuck_22046]

[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1414261340' post='10349569']
[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1414260360' post='10349511']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1414117983' post='10342143']
For determining a golfer's "best choice" of iron type, unless you do a side by side and statistically relevant comparison, this cannot be determined by anybody. I think that the best choice is ultimately up to the golfer, and any outside observer, whether teacher or fitter or friend or not, may not be the best for advice on the decision. Ultimately my point is that the "best choice" is definitely an individual thing.
[/quote]

This is my biggest issue with this debate. How can anyone believe that the golfer is going to know more about swing mechanics than a qualified fitter?

It's no different than going to the doctor. Yes I might know my body better than anyone, but a doctor will always be better able to diagnose my illness than I am.
[/quote]

Golf is mental. No better feeling than walking up to a 12 ft. putt and knowing you are dropping it from the time you see it on the green until you put it in the heart, or visualize that cut or draw from behind the ball in the fairway and then hit exactly what you just saw in your mind. Golf is mind over matter more than matter over mind.

Maybe I dont care about what a launch monitor says about God knows what or what a fitter says is the best clubhead for me to look at and feel all round. Maybe rolling up to the range in sandals and hitting some pure shots with a pure forged iron and grinning after each one is what I like about golf. I would rather be a 10 Hcp and play real irons than a 5 and play dead ones, but fortunatly my experience is exactly what I have been saying this entire thread, it is 100% the opposite....
[/quote]

'57 Blades and MP-14's? And wearing sandles? No way I am playing with you in a money match! lol...love it!

[duffer987]

For determining a golfer's "best choice" of iron type, unless you do a side by side and statistically relevant comparison, this cannot be determined by anybody. I think that the best choice is ultimately up to the golfer, and any outside observer, whether teacher or fitter or friend or not, may not be the best for advice on the decision. Ultimately my point is that the "best choice" is definitely an individual thing.

 

This is my biggest issue with this debate. How can anyone believe that the golfer is going to know more about swing mechanics than a qualified fitter?

 

It's no different than going to the doctor. Yes I might know my body better than anyone, but a doctor will always be better able to diagnose my illness than I am.

 

Well...first, we aren't exactly debating. This is more or less expressing opinions and sharing our experiences. Regarding the fitter comment. I have yet to go to a fitter (granted I have only been to one 5 times...so maybe not a good test sample), who tried to either talk me into, or out of a particular set of clubs. Further, I have never had one tell me the following:

 

1) How a club feels when I hit it

2) How a club SHOULD feel when I hit it

 

I have however taken a checkup lesson or 2 where the instructor or teacher has tried to change my equipment. Usually, the "seriously" look puts a stop to that. I am, admittedly more than a little stubborn about some things.

 

But having said that when it comes to equipment selection I got very tired of people trying to sell me something...making a recommendation? sure...but when the conversation starts with "Try this...you will get X more yards" or "These feel so much better than those old things"

 

Like this?

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1414261855' post='10349585']
Your #2 is interesting as GI clubs detract from that......

As far as acceptable shot away from center, I think my sets of newer blades (by newer I mean MP 14s newer, so last 15-20 years) are not really that much less forgiving than the only CBs I have played enough to comment about, titliest 962s. You can get feedback of a miss on a blade, and the ball will still go more or less the shape and accuracy just shorter the further you miss.

I will say, I had the fourteen FH1000s for a brief stint, and I hated them feel wise and at address, but they were long and mishits literally lost 2 yards. They were more fogiving than my 962s for a fact and they are blades so to argue blades are always less forgiving is incorrect from my personal expereince. Of course IMO, that forgivness came with the cost of the look and the feel that was not worth the tradeoff to me.
[/quote]

That's what I'm saying for sure! The only definitive data that I have seen discussed and brought up is that a CB miss from an off center hit with a square face and square path results in a longer miss than a blade/MB. Somehow this becomes the definitive answer why everyone should play a CB. This becomes the "data" for the fear mongering I mentioned earlier.

When you miss with an angled face and you are trying to work the ball it becomes a very complicated problem to determine which club type gives you the better miss. I CB is designed to take away spin, well if your shot was intended to have spin, then there will definitely be situations where the CB did no better or even worse in terms of saving a shot because of this miss. Missing with a blade, on the other hand, which is designed to more easily spin the ball, may actually result in a shot that is close to the intended shot. End result is (possibly) a mishit that was better with a blade than a CB.

[Chuck_22046]

Yes exactly....with more hair

[DeNinny]

For determining a golfer's "best choice" of iron type, unless you do a side by side and statistically relevant comparison, this cannot be determined by anybody. I think that the best choice is ultimately up to the golfer, and any outside observer, whether teacher or fitter or friend or not, may not be the best for advice on the decision. Ultimately my point is that the "best choice" is definitely an individual thing.

 

This is my biggest issue with this debate. How can anyone believe that the golfer is going to know more about swing mechanics than a qualified fitter?

 

It's no different than going to the doctor. Yes I might know my body better than anyone, but a doctor will always be better able to diagnose my illness than I am.

 

Well...first, we aren't exactly debating. This is more or less expressing opinions and sharing our experiences. Regarding the fitter comment. I have yet to go to a fitter (granted I have only been to one 5 times...so maybe not a good test sample), who tried to either talk me into, or out of a particular set of clubs. Further, I have never had one tell me the following:

 

1) How a club feels when I hit it

2) How a club SHOULD feel when I hit it

 

I have however taken a checkup lesson or 2 where the instructor or teacher has tried to change my equipment. Usually, the "seriously" look puts a stop to that. I am, admittedly more than a little stubborn about some things.

 

But having said that when it comes to equipment selection I got very tired of people trying to sell me something...making a recommendation? sure...but when the conversation starts with "Try this...you will get X more yards" or "These feel so much better than those old things"

 

Like this?

 

LOL duffer987 at my last demo of comparing my MP67s and MP60s against the newer MP4s and MP64s, I was comparing 3i's for all the club types, and the fitter and salesman comes up to me with an SGI Ping club and asks me to try it. LMAO I think I gave him that exact stare down. Not to be impolite, I hit some shots with it, no better or worse than the other clubs, and the results were the same as any of the other clubs. But the feel was worse. Needless to say the guy left me alone after that and just left with a comment that the Mizunos have a good feel if you can hit them right.

[T.Beau]

[quote name='Emccance79' timestamp='1414255564' post='10349191']
I actually am thinking the opposite. Going midsize. I'm a 4hc and this game is hard enough as it is
[/quote]

precisely !!

i would say that there are far more people on this forum who have misconceptions about GI or SGI than about so called 'blades'.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1414265817' post='10349803']
[quote name='Emccance79' timestamp='1414255564' post='10349191']
I actually am thinking the opposite. Going midsize. I'm a 4hc and this game is hard enough as it is
[/quote]

precisely !!

i would say that there are far more people on this forum who have misconceptions about GI or SGI than about so called 'blades'.
[/quote]

It's interesting that he never stated that anyone else had any misconceptions. He merely stated his own viewpoint.

Do you think it is civil to make a statement about other people's misconceptions? Why isn't it "just another", differing viewpoint rather than a misconception? Could it be that this misconception in others is possibly your own inability to see that it is not an absolute issue?

You yourself state you are making a generality in other posts. Who's to say others are wrong (misconceived) by defining the generality as that the iron type means little to score?

Staying open to other's views and not implying they are misconceived is what keeps this an open and civil discussion rather than a debate.

[Chuck_22046]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1414265817' post='10349803']
[quote name='Emccance79' timestamp='1414255564' post='10349191']
I actually am thinking the opposite. Going midsize. I'm a 4hc and this game is hard enough as it is
[/quote]

precisely !!

i would say that there are far more people on this forum who have misconceptions about GI or SGI than about so called 'blades'.
[/quote]

Speaking for myself....the misconception I was laboring under was that cavity back and or GI/SGI clubs were best for me. This wasn't based on how I played, or the feel they produced. It was based on my misguided following of the "herd mentality" that I fell for. As a result of this thread...I am moving back to blades. This evening I will try the set I selected. If they don't give me what I seek...I will try another. God knows I have enough blades laying around to try....

I will play these for all the reasons I have already mentioned. There is an interesting point I wish to make. I carry one...sometimes two, and if my 5 wood acts up...as many as three hybrids. Why? They provide me with the shots I want and need and provide the feel that I find acceptable.

Is is a skill issue? Perhaps it is. I have very little ego when I play golf...it's me, the ball and the course. Sure, there are some bragging rights on the line sometimes, but I don't get a star next to my name if I spank somebody playing blades. I will play these because they give me the shots I want and feel I need, without compromising the feel I desire.

For me it's just that simple. Some people have data to back up their assertions regarding this discussion. I don't...but we agree with the conclusion we both came to. So, after all what I said, there is not a debate here. It's discussion about why we feel the way we do, and how we came to that conclusion. There can be no misconception in that regard. But choices in clubs made either by feel, inclination or data...that ALL arrived at the same conclusion, are not misconceived.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Chuck_22046' timestamp='1414270113' post='10350035']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1414265817' post='10349803']
[quote name='Emccance79' timestamp='1414255564' post='10349191']
I actually am thinking the opposite. Going midsize. I'm a 4hc and this game is hard enough as it is
[/quote]

precisely !!

i would say that there are far more people on this forum who have misconceptions about GI or SGI than about so called 'blades'.
[/quote]

Speaking for myself....the misconception I was laboring under was that cavity back and or GI/SGI clubs were best for me. This wasn't based on how I played, or the feel they produced. It was based on my misguided following of the "herd mentality" that I fell for. As a result of this thread...I am moving back to blades. This evening I will try the set I selected. If they don't give me what I seek...I will try another. God knows I have enough blades laying around to try....

I will play these for all the reasons I have already mentioned. There is an interesting point I wish to make. I carry one...sometimes two, and if my 5 wood acts up...as many as three hybrids. Why? They provide me with the shots I want and need and provide the feel that I find acceptable.

Is is a skill issue? Perhaps it is. I have very little ego when I play golf...it's me, the ball and the course. Sure, there are some bragging rights on the line sometimes, but I don't get a star next to my name if I spank somebody playing blades. I will play these because they give me the shots I want and feel I need, without compromising the feel I desire.

For me it's just that simple. [b]Some people have data to back up their assertions regarding this discussion. I don't[/b]...but we agree with the conclusion we both came to. So, after all what I said, there is not a debate here. It's discussion about why we feel the way we do, and how we came to that conclusion. There can be no misconception in that regard. But choices in clubs made either by feel, inclination or data...that ALL arrived at the same conclusion, are not misconceived.
[/quote]

I agree with everything except what I have bolded. From what I've read in this thread, your own experience over the years playing all different types of irons is credible, relevant data in my book. It's certainly much better data than what a fitter (no matter how good) could collect in a one hour fitting, watching you hit shots on a lie board and fake turf, with a perfectly flat lie.

[Chuck_22046]

Interesting bit of time at the range with the old (new) sticks. My initial concerns regarding the sharpness of the leading edge were, as it turned out...completely confirmed.

I had gotten rather lazy with the previous irons, given their wider soles and the leading edge grind. Once I became accustomed to it however, the blades worked just wonderfully. Great feel...almost like the ball sticks a bit to the face of the club longer (it's really hard to describe that feeling). Also, mishits (unless it was a complete gank of a shot) were not penalized as much as I thought they might be. I lost maybe 5 yards both in distance, and direction. Those numbers depending on how bad the strike was.

Funny thing about this little session. The irons performed exactly the way I remembered them. Much more forgiving than their look would indicate. Very easy to flight down...and I am going to have to work a bit with ball position to get the really high shot. That frustrated me a bit to be honest. The set makeup I went with was 5-PW. The grips are Winn DSI...that might get changed. Not sure about that just yet. Currently engaged in a torrid love affair with the hybrids I use...so I didn't bring the 3 and 4 irons.

One final note....the (presumed) 50* pitching was was awesome. This puts me back into the 54/58 or 60 club. Still grieving about the wedges...but for now, at least *most* of the bag is set.

Just in time for the offseason....sigh

[Bigmean]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1414265817' post='10349803']
[quote name='Emccance79' timestamp='1414255564' post='10349191']
I actually am thinking the opposite. Going midsize. I'm a 4hc and this game is hard enough as it is
[/quote]

precisely !!

i would say that there are far more people on this forum who have misconceptions about GI or SGI than about so called 'blades'.
[/quote]

I agree completely. People's misconceptions about the marketed benifits of GI and SGI clubs is far too common in general, not just on forums.

[Bigmean]

[quote name='Chuck_22046' timestamp='1414262294' post='10349615']
[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1414261340' post='10349569']
[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1414260360' post='10349511']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1414117983' post='10342143']
For determining a golfer's "best choice" of iron type, unless you do a side by side and statistically relevant comparison, this cannot be determined by anybody. I think that the best choice is ultimately up to the golfer, and any outside observer, whether teacher or fitter or friend or not, may not be the best for advice on the decision. Ultimately my point is that the "best choice" is definitely an individual thing.
[/quote]

This is my biggest issue with this debate. How can anyone believe that the golfer is going to know more about swing mechanics than a qualified fitter?

It's no different than going to the doctor. Yes I might know my body better than anyone, but a doctor will always be better able to diagnose my illness than I am.
[/quote]

Golf is mental. No better feeling than walking up to a 12 ft. putt and knowing you are dropping it from the time you see it on the green until you put it in the heart, or visualize that cut or draw from behind the ball in the fairway and then hit exactly what you just saw in your mind. Golf is mind over matter more than matter over mind.

Maybe I dont care about what a launch monitor says about God knows what or what a fitter says is the best clubhead for me to look at and feel all round. Maybe rolling up to the range in sandals and hitting some pure shots with a pure forged iron and grinning after each one is what I like about golf. I would rather be a 10 Hcp and play real irons than a 5 and play dead ones, but fortunatly my experience is exactly what I have been saying this entire thread, it is 100% the opposite....
[/quote]

'57 Blades and MP-14's? And wearing sandles? No way I am playing with you in a money match! lol...love it!
[/quote]

You would wish you did after I pull hooked my drive on the first tee

I just want to look cool and play blades that cost over a grand to shoot worse and not hit good shots with them or feel a difference so that I can impress everyone that I see locally who thinks Miura is a Kmart brand and then tell me how if I had their R9 super floating max MOI hyperbolic liquidmetal irons that shot I just hit would have not been wet.

[Chuck_22046]

[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1414282110' post='10350833']
You would wish you did after I pull hooked my drive on the first tee

I just want to look cool and play blades that cost over a grand to shoot worse and not hit good shots with them or feel a difference so that I can impress everyone that I see locally who thinks Miura is a Kmart brand and then tell me how if I had their R9 super floating max MOI hyperbolic liquidmetal irons that shot I just hit would have not been wet.
[/quote]

Ha! On a related note, since my "Driver Slayer" GF obliterated my Classic, I have been grieving and seeing a replacement. I remembered I had an Adams Pro DF2400X head laying around so I shafted it up. After I hit the irons I thought I would give the driver a few pokes just to see if I liked it as much as I remembered.

I take off the head cover and right on the bottom is stamped "High MOI 460cc"

I am seriously considering putting the 983K or even the 975D back in the bag...no more of that MOI foolishness for me thankyouverymuch!

[Snufles]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1414247596' post='10348635']
[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1414211177' post='10347661']
Seriously, If your a good ballstriker then a blade or cb is NOT the difference between being wet or not...... A bad shot for a BALLSTRIKER is short fringe as compared to pin high.



[/quote]

sure it can. it often is. i play lots of holes where there is either water or junk close to the greens. miss hits results in loss of distance....even more so with a 'blade'. and if the pin is up front, that adds even more to the equation.
i'm not into throwing strokes away and think it is better to shoot a lower score than a higher score.....thats why many of the pros dont even use blades....and use hybrids....ahh, the reverseness of club selection, where a hack (not referring to you or any specific person) thinks he plays better with blades and a professional thinks he plays worse with blades. again, i speak in generalities.
if someone is a bad golfer, they will be an even worse golfer using blades.
[/quote]

Technically the new blades ARE GI clubs. With lower hossles, rounded leading edges, increased bounce and much improved muscle layouts. Modern blades have little in common with the scary blades from golfs early days.

Do not be intimidated by the new blades as they are not that different from modern CBs.

All the CB does is allow for a lovely colourful billboard to be placed inside it. Stickers don't work well on blades.

[T.Beau]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1414268053' post='10349923']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1414265817' post='10349803']
[quote name='Emccance79' timestamp='1414255564' post='10349191']
I actually am thinking the opposite. Going midsize. I'm a 4hc and this game is hard enough as it is
[/quote]

precisely !!

i would say that there are far more people on this forum who have misconceptions about GI or SGI than about so called 'blades'.
[/quote]

It's interesting that he never stated that anyone else had any misconceptions. He merely stated his own viewpoint.

Do you think it is civil to make a statement about other people's misconceptions? Why isn't it "just another", differing viewpoint rather than a misconception? Could it be that this misconception in others is possibly your own inability to see that it is not an absolute issue?

You yourself state you are making a generality in other posts. Who's to say others are wrong (misconceived) by defining the generality as that the iron type means little to score?

Staying open to other's views and not implying they are misconceived is what keeps this an open and civil discussion rather than a debate.
[/quote]

Yes I think it is very civil to say there are mis conceptions. i wasnt referencing anyone in particular unlike you who chose to criticize me (personalise) for expressing my opinion. you dont get to instruct me on what to post.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1414298517' post='10351781']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1414268053' post='10349923']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1414265817' post='10349803']
[quote name='Emccance79' timestamp='1414255564' post='10349191']
I actually am thinking the opposite. Going midsize. I'm a 4hc and this game is hard enough as it is
[/quote]

precisely !!

i would say that there are far more people on this forum who have misconceptions about GI or SGI than about so called 'blades'.
[/quote]

It's interesting that he never stated that anyone else had any misconceptions. He merely stated his own viewpoint.

Do you think it is civil to make a statement about other people's misconceptions? Why isn't it "just another", differing viewpoint rather than a misconception? Could it be that this misconception in others is possibly your own inability to see that it is not an absolute issue?

You yourself state you are making a generality in other posts. Who's to say others are wrong (misconceived) by defining the generality as that the iron type means little to score?

Staying open to other's views and not implying they are misconceived is what keeps this an open and civil discussion rather than a debate.
[/quote]

Yes I think it is very civil to say there are mis conceptions. i wasnt referencing anyone in particular unlike you who chose to criticize me (personalise) for expressing my opinion. you dont get to instruct me on what to post.
[/quote]

Just asking some questions to understand your perspective that's all. Thanks!

[Chuck_22046]

[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1414261340' post='10349569']
Golf is mental. No better feeling than walking up to a 12 ft. putt and knowing you are dropping it from the time you see it on the green until you put it in the heart, or visualize that cut or draw from behind the ball in the fairway and then hit exactly what you just saw in your mind. Golf is mind over matter more than matter over mind.

Maybe I dont care about what a launch monitor says about God knows what or what a fitter says is the best clubhead for me to look at and feel all round. Maybe rolling up to the range in sandals and hitting some pure shots with a pure forged iron and grinning after each one is what I like about golf. I would rather be a 10 Hcp and play real irons than a 5 and play dead ones, but fortunatly my experience is exactly what I have been saying this entire thread, it is 100% the opposite....
[/quote]
Golf is entirely mental! See my options, pick the shot, hit the shot. For me, blades give me more options. And not only more of them, but they are a LOT more fun to execute. It puts an end to any kind of Indian/Arrow discussion. Last night I was messing about with that infamous Hogan drill. You know the one with the cut, draw, straight, low mid high thing with each club.

Did I get it every time? Heck no! Did my clubs stop me from doing it...nope. It WAS the indian...and I am enjoying that bit.

[Chuck_22046]

It's a beautiful afternoon with a bit of wind to work some shots against.....

Heading to the range with the blades and a sack full of retro drivers. What ever you are playing....I hope at least you ARE playing today.