Some ideas about the trail arm straightening

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='Kiwi2' timestamp='1419817305' post='10653281']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1419815840' post='10653195']
if kelvin was such a stud he wouldn't post on a hawaii website. I will never take someone seriously that doesn't take themselves seriously.
[/quote]

Please explain what is wrong with a Hawaiian, or anyone else for that matter, posting on a Hawaiian website?
[/quote]

you're a doctor right? if you were trying to change standard of care, would you do it from a state news site? do you think people would take you seriously if you did?

[Hoganstriker]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419799061' post='10652069']
[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1419794506' post='10651723']
Great thread it each. Hogan wrote it's like and underhand throw. Can't be straightening more than that!
[/quote]
Nobody argues that right arm does not straighten .the question is when this should start and how gradually this happens.
Iteach seems to be arguing that most top players and his students should be straightening aggesively as soon as possible.This clearly does not happen among many top players
[/quote]

Show examples.

[eightiron]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419808297' post='10652693']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419807605' post='10652643']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419806895' post='10652593']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419430619' post='10636867']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419391406' post='10635745']
When moving in a circle an object rotating around a circle can spin at a fixed rate but the end will be moving faster than the part closest to the center. Even if elbow and hand were moving at a fixed rate, meaning right arm maintaining same flex and not straightening, the hands would be moving faster than the elbow. This is extremely basic. Same rate/rpms is not Equal to same speed

Hands move faster than the elbow and much faster than shoulders. Top of the swing depends on what you consider the top. If you consider the start of downswing when the club begins changing directions then as soon as the downswing starts hands are moving faster than elbow and much faster than shoulders virtually immediately in almost all instances.
[/quote]
The humerus bone connects the elbow to the shoulder while the hands/ wrist are connected to the elbow by the ulna and radius bones.
In your example the center of the circle is the shoulder joint.Thus both the hands and elbow will be moving faster than the shoulder .
Are the hands moving faster than the elbow in the transition thru early part of the downswing ?[b]Obviously the humerus bone does not change length so the distance travelled by the hands will be the same as that travelled by the hands ; thus the hands will move at the same speed as the right elbow provided the right arm does not extend (straighten) and provided there is no internal or external rotation of the shoulder .If a golfer makes the elbow move (see second video below),two things happen .the right shoulder transversely adducts meaning that the upper arm moves closer to the body .Does this change the speed of the hands relative to the elbow .NO.The second thing that happens is that the right shoulder externally rotates.This movement actually will result in the right elbow rotating more than the the hands. [/b]. Whether this means that the elbow moves faster than the hands ,i can not tell ,but unless the lower right am straightens the hands will not be moving faster than the hands .Now of course the lower right arm does eventually strengthen and the hands start to move faster than the right elbow
Rotational ,movements of the right elbow will mirror rotational movements of the right shoulder via (hopefull) external and not internal rotation of the right shoulder
Notice that in the first video Mr Quiros right arm angle actually becomes more acute in transition/early downswing,while in the second Kelvin Miyahira draws lines [b]indicating that the right elbow has moved more than the hands[/b]. . Mr Quiros , is the golfer in the dark shirt in Kelvins video
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0APuaJXoA2I[/media]
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQPj4lmHKL4[/media]

Look at the 2 video below
[/quote]

Just so you know Russ here is EXACTLY where you say that if the right arm external rotates then elbow is moving faster than the hands. And even if it doesn't they are moving the same speed.


I proved both those wrong and even when Quiros increased right elbow bend AND externally rotated the right arm the hands still traveled a greater distance and therefore speed than the elbow.

Keep trying to move goal post rather than just admit you don't know as much as you think you do. Heck most here think you're a teacher rather than just a guy who has read everything Geoff wrote and copy and paste/paraphrases his work. Which is why anytime you get outside of his framework you show your ignorance and how much you don't know. You might learn something if you were actually open to doing so
[/quote]
Again ,I never stated that the elbow moved faster than the hands
[/quote]

I bolded it for you. By saying external rotation causes the elbow to move a greater distance than the hands you ARE saying the elbow is moving faster than the hands (and you said it in two different places in the paragraph). A greater distance over the same time frame means they are moving faster. Which is completely wrong. You definitely said that if the right arm isn't straightening then they are all moving at the same speed. Also wrong. You also said that adduction wouldn't speed up the hands relative to the elbow. Again wrong.
[/quote]

Holding all the keys and guarding the exits !

[eightiron]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419809401' post='10652771']
There was a topic last summer concerning an article by Mike Bender in Golf digest.The strong suggestion was on starting your arms down as soon as possible .Although Iteach did not participate one of his students mentioned that the ideas were almost identical to what Iteach teaches.(first link)
Later Kelvin Miyahira commented on Mr Benders recommendations in one of his posts.To those of who who are not familiar with Kelvin,he focuses on the biomechanical and anatomical analysis of golf swings.His knowledge on these points is a quantum jump above either Mr Bender or Iteach
Kelvin comments are about %60 of the way through this article( 2nd link) starting from "Push into the ground and swing down fast
"Why fire arms early.It would be like a skater lengthening his arms while trying to trying to rotate his body rapidly.Illogical
So i am the hardly the only one who questions the idea of starting the arms down as soon as possible.
MAYBE INSTEAD OF ARGUING WITH ME ON SOME MINOR POINTS ,HE SHOULD STUDY AND LEARN FROM kELVIN
http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2014-08/mike-bender-power-at-impact-with-zach-johnson
http://www.aroundhawaii.com/lifestyle/health_and_fitness/2014-09-micro-moves-of-a-correct-backswing.html
[/quote]

Are you shouting ? Kelvins elbow videos didn't pan out for you , what makes you think more cut n paste links will?

[mikah]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1419812781' post='10653013']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1419811550' post='10652941']
Lol at using kelvin as a biomechanics expert who someone knows tons more than iTeach or Bender. Russ, you realize that just cuz you say something doesn't mean it's true right?
[/quote]

Just look at the other thread on this subject. Next one down. Instead of actual real world inprovement, the debate has become definition of lag.
[/quote]


Which you cant seem to define, you fail to mention.LOL

[russc1597187869]

[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1419819980' post='10653451']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419799061' post='10652069']
[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1419794506' post='10651723']
Great thread it each. Hogan wrote it's like and underhand throw. Can't be straightening more than that!
[/quote]
Nobody argues that right arm does not straighten .the question is when this should start and how gradually this happens.
Iteach seems to be arguing that most top players and his students should be straightening aggesively as soon as possible.This clearly does not happen among many top players
[/quote]

Show examples.
[/quote]
Start by looking at some videos of the longest drivers on the PGA Tour last year.
[url="http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.101.2014.html"]http://www.pgatour.c...t.101.2014.html[/url]

[florida77]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419828863' post='10653975']
[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1419819980' post='10653451']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419799061' post='10652069']
[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1419794506' post='10651723']
Great thread it each. Hogan wrote it's like and underhand throw. Can't be straightening more than that!
[/quote]
Nobody argues that right arm does not straighten .the question is when this should start and how gradually this happens.
Iteach seems to be arguing that most top players and his students should be straightening aggesively as soon as possible.This clearly does not happen among many top players
[/quote]

Show examples.
[/quote]
Start by looking at some videos of the longest drivers on the PGA Tour last year.
[url="http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.101.2014.html"]http://www.pgatour.c...t.101.2014.html[/url]
[/quote]

You would be terrific using a hammer...lol!!!! I can just see you holding that bent arm and going into a flexing convulsion of the torso to bring hammer to nail then trying to figure out at what point should you actually straighten your arm out. Pretty sure the best carpenters/framers just try and straighten out the arm right away with no thought about the hundreds of Micro Moves that the motion produces when viewed in slow motion.


Gee no wonder people are screwed up listening to crap like this from people with ideas about hundreds of micro moves etc. I'm sure no one would get paralysis by analysis practicing hundreds of Micro Moves. Oh no! I messed up #36 micro move and my swing fell apart today...hmmm? maybe it was #37 not sure since I have no friggin' idea what really happened but I know it's one of those hundreds...but which one?


Oh shite it wasn't a micro move it was because I didn't hold the lag like Sadlowski and let my trail arm straighten at the wrong time, wonder when it's suppose to straighten and at what rate? I know I'll ask Kelvin or Jeffy, oh yeah they don't golf and one isn't a teacher. Screw it, they both know more than any instructor that ever lived...well at least that's what the say, they know everything and everyone else is just plain wrong.

That's the ticket Kelvin and Jeffy and 1001 Micro Moves!

[FrankLinnear]

[quote name='florida77' timestamp='1419857028' post='10654605']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419828863' post='10653975']
[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1419819980' post='10653451']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419799061' post='10652069']
[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1419794506' post='10651723']
Great thread it each. Hogan wrote it's like and underhand throw. Can't be straightening more than that!
[/quote]
Nobody argues that right arm does not straighten .the question is when this should start and how gradually this happens.
Iteach seems to be arguing that most top players and his students should be straightening aggesively as soon as possible.This clearly does not happen among many top players
[/quote]

Show examples.
[/quote]
Start by looking at some videos of the longest drivers on the PGA Tour last year.
[url="http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.101.2014.html"]http://www.pgatour.c...t.101.2014.html[/url]
[/quote]

You would be terrific using a hammer...lol!!!! I can just see you holding that bent arm and going into a flexing convulsion of the torso to bring hammer to nail then trying to figure out at what point should you actually straighten your arm out. Pretty sure the best carpenters/framers just try and straighten out the arm right away with no thought about the hundreds of Micro Moves that the motion produces when viewed in slow motion.


Gee no wonder people are screwed up listening to crap like this from people with ideas about hundreds of micro moves etc. I'm sure no one would get paralysis by analysis practicing hundreds of Micro Moves. Oh no! I messed up #36 micro move and my swing fell apart today...hmmm? maybe it was #37 not sure since I have no friggin' idea what really happened but I know it's one of those hundreds...but which one?


Oh shite it wasn't a micro move it was because I didn't hold the lag like Sadlowski and let my trail arm straighten at the wrong time, wonder when it's suppose to straighten and at what rate? I know I'll ask Kelvin or Jeffy, oh yeah they don't golf and one isn't a teacher. Screw it, they both know more than any instructor that ever lived...well at least that's what the say, they know everything and everyone else is just plain wrong.

That's the ticket Kelvin and Jeffy and 1001 Micro Moves!
[/quote]

Not quite since you missed out on one of the alphabet men of golf instruction J,K,L & assoc.Jeff,Kelvin&Lucas.
Anyways they are second rate really not close to industry leaders ABS.John F Erikson is the boss of this program and he explains the phenomenon of the right arm straightening procedure better than anyone here.I can't give all the details because I am still on module1 and will be for 6 months at least.Great price for 8 months instruction only 250 it's like Groundhog Day the movie doing it over and over but it's worth it.I tell you boys apart from 5 visits to the physio it's sensational.
Getting to the right arm and I am paraphrasing here just from some notes gathered what you do is straighten it hard and fast down behind yourself from the second parallel end of backswing to the third parallel mid downswing.
Then you abruptly stop the right arm and bring it through with the pivot and roll the forearms and magically you'll get that bent right arm and leveraged look.In TGM terms it's superior to the book and the sequence is 4,1,2,3 then 4 again or as JF calls it 5

[russc1597187869]

[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1419863126' post='10654827']
[quote name='florida77' timestamp='1419857028' post='10654605']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419828863' post='10653975']
[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1419819980' post='10653451']

[quote name='Hoganstriker' timestamp='1419794506' post='10651723']
Great thread it each. Hogan wrote it's like and underhand throw. Can't be straightening more than that!
[/quote]
Nobody argues that right arm does not straighten .the question is when this should start and how gradually this happens.
Iteach seems to be arguing that most top players and his students should be straightening aggesively as soon as possible.This clearly does not happen among many top players
[/quote]

Show examp

[/quote]

You would be terrific using a hammer...lol!!!! I can just see you holding that bent arm and going into a flexing convulsion of the torso to bring hammer to nail then trying to figure out at what point should you actually straighten your arm out. Pretty sure the best carpenters/framers just try and straighten out the arm right away with no thought about the hundreds of Micro Moves that the motion produces when viewed in slow motion.


Gee no wonder people are screwed up listening to crap like this from people with ideas about hundreds of micro moves etc. I'm sure no one would get paralysis by analysis practicing hundreds of Micro Moves. Oh no! I messed up #36 micro move and my swing fell apart today...hmmm? maybe it was #37 not sure since I have no friggin' idea what really happened but I know it's one of those hundreds...but which one?


Oh shite it wasn't a micro move it was because I didn't hold the lag like Sadlowski and let my trail arm straighten at the wrong time, wonder when it's suppose to straighten and at what rate? I know I'll ask Kelvin or Jeffy, oh yeah they don't golf and one isn't a teacher. Screw it, they both know more than any instructor that ever lived...well at least that's what the say, they know everything and everyone else is just plain wrong.

That's the ticket Kelvin and Jeffy and 1001 Micro Moves!
[/quote]

Not quite since you missed out on one of the alphabet men of golf instruction J,K,L & assoc.Jeff,Kelvin&Lucas.
Anyways they are second rate really not close to industry leaders ABS.John F Erikson is the boss of this program and he explains the phenomenon of the right arm straightening procedure better than anyone here.I can't give all the details because I am still on module1 and will be for 6 months at least.Great price for 8 months instruction only 250 it's like Groundhog Day the movie doing it over and over but it's worth it.I tell you boys apart from 5 visits to the physio it's sensational.
Getting to the right arm and I am paraphrasing here just from some notes gathered what you do is straighten it hard and fast down behind yourself from the second parallel end of backswing to the third parallel mid downswing.
Then you abruptly stop the right arm and bring it through with the pivot and roll the forearms and magically you'll get that bent right arm and leveraged look.In TGM terms it's superior to the book and the sequence is 4,1,2,3 then 4 again or as JF calls it 5
[/quote]
Please correct me if i am wrong.Sounds like you have completed about 2 months of the 8 month program and you have already visited the physio 5 times?

[virtuoso]

[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1419863126' post='10654827'] Not quite since you missed out on one of the alphabet men of golf instruction J,K,L & assoc.Jeff,Kelvin&Lucas. Anyways they are second rate really not close to industry leaders ABS.John F Erikson is the boss of this program and he explains the phenomenon of the right arm straightening procedure better than anyone here.I can't give all the details because I am still on module1 and will be for 6 months at least.Great price for 8 months instruction only 250 it's like Groundhog Day the movie doing it over and over but it's worth it.I tell you boys apart from 5 visits to the physio it's sensational. Getting to the right arm and I am paraphrasing here just from some notes gathered what you do is straighten it hard and fast down behind yourself from the second parallel end of backswing to the third parallel mid downswing. Then you abruptly stop the right arm and bring it through with the pivot and roll the forearms and magically you'll get that bent right arm and leveraged look.In TGM terms it's superior to the book and the sequence is 4,1,2,3 then 4 again or as JF calls it 5 [/quote]

How could i have ever doubted you Frankie? You are one of the few guys who have actually got it figured out.

[FrankLinnear]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419868936' post='10655267']

Please correct me if i am wrong.Sounds like you have completed about 2 months of the 8 month program and you have already visited the physio 5 times?
[/quote]
Yessir that is spot on.Not really the fault of JF Erikson perhaps it was my physical weakness not being able to hit the impact bag 1000 times a day.
8 months is just my own estimate of time to complete module1 it depends on the master if you can progress to the next level.One other bonus is he responds to emails and phone messages like a teenage school girl with plenty of interest in my progress.I got medical insurance to cover the physio and she is a very hot lady and in a way it's a bonus package from the ABS program.
It was a toss up before the ABS I was doing the 9 to 3 program which was keeping the wrist bent backwards until impact with core rotation and no arm supination.Was ver difficult for me because I got the shanks and could not get the hosel to rotate off the plane line without any arm rotation.It was a disaster for me in that respect but I gave it a thorough workout for two weeks.The other main concern was I read on WRX that you have to do 9 to 3 drill for 6 months or even years and not allowed to hit any clubs longer than a 6 iron.its a long drive from California to Texas and in the end it was an easy decision.

[florida77]

[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1419878495' post='10655965']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419868936' post='10655267']
Please correct me if i am wrong.Sounds like you have completed about 2 months of the 8 month program and you have already visited the physio 5 times?
[/quote]
Yessir that is spot on.Not really the fault of JF Erikson perhaps it was my physical weakness not being able to hit the impact bag 1000 times a day.
8 months is just my own estimate of time to complete module1 it depends on the master if you can progress to the next level.One other bonus is he responds to emails and phone messages like a teenage school girl with plenty of interest in my progress.I got medical insurance to cover the physio and she is a very hot lady and in a way it's a bonus package from the ABS program.
It was a toss up before the ABS I was doing the 9 to 3 program which was keeping the wrist bent backwards until impact with core rotation and no arm supination.Was ver difficult for me because I got the shanks and could not get the hosel to rotate off the plane line without any arm rotation.It was a disaster for me in that respect but I gave it a thorough workout for two weeks.The other main concern was I read on WRX that you have to do 9 to 3 drill for 6 months or even years and not allowed to hit any clubs longer than a 6 iron.its a long drive from California to Texas and in the end it was an easy decision.
[/quote]


Yes that's all good but can you hold the flex/loaded shaft all the way to impact and beyond, I think all the way to p10....that's the really important piece of the puzzle, when you can I'm sure you can skip a few modules and save some cash, another bonus to having complete control of the shafts flexing and bending throughout the swing is that you can produce maximum lag whenever you want at any point in the swing....even past impact!!!!

[dairic]

Frank, it takes several thousands of impact bag whacks because as the name of the system suggest its Advanced BS. Some people will only walk down this BS road so far, but for the truly committed knuckle heads out there, the realization of this Advanced BS could take many modules. J.E. is truly an advanced BS artist who will be happy to guide you to the highest peaks of BS the golfing world has to offer.

I highly recommend the optional Super Slut-ing module if you goal is to experience for yourself all the effects of being penetrated by the highest levels of golf BS instruction.

Good luck

[mikpga]

Let's look at Pete Rose from above. Pretty decent hitter.

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzjxqs3pApI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzjxqs3pApI[/url]

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='mikpga' timestamp='1419895156' post='10657275']
Let's look at Pete Rose from above. Pretty decent hitter.

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzjxqs3pApI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzjxqs3pApI[/url]
[/quote]

Looks like his intent is to go opposite field there. Rose more of a singles hitter, use the whole field.

Check this out

Mickey Mantle Demonstration batlikeapro.com: http://youtu.be/etSfBwcNpII

[FrankLinnear]

[quote name='florida77' timestamp='1419891287' post='10656947']
[quote name='FrankLinnear' timestamp='1419878495' post='10655965']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1419868936' post='10655267']
Please correct me if i am wrong.Sounds like you have completed about 2 months of the 8 month program and you have already visited the physio 5 times?
[/quote]
Yessir that is spot on.Not really the fault of JF Erikson perhaps it was my physical weakness not being able to hit the impact bag 1000 times a day.
8 months is just my own estimate of time to complete module1 it depends on the master if you can progress to the next level.One other bonus is he responds to emails and phone messages like a teenage school girl with plenty of interest in my progress.I got medical insurance to cover the physio and she is a very hot lady and in a way it's a bonus package from the ABS program.
It was a toss up before the ABS I was doing the 9 to 3 program which was keeping the wrist bent backwards until impact with core rotation and no arm supination.Was ver difficult for me because I got the shanks and could not get the hosel to rotate off the plane line without any arm rotation.It was a disaster for me in that respect but I gave it a thorough workout for two weeks.The other main concern was I read on WRX that you have to do 9 to 3 drill for 6 months or even years and not allowed to hit any clubs longer than a 6 iron.its a long drive from California to Texas and in the end it was an easy decision.
[/quote]


Yes that's all good but can you hold the flex/loaded shaft all the way to impact and beyond, I think all the way to p10....that's the really important piece of the puzzle, when you can I'm sure you can skip a few modules and save some cash, another bonus to having complete control of the shafts flexing and bending throughout the swing is that you can produce maximum lag whenever you want at any point in the swing....even past impact!!!!
[/quote]
Yessir I managed to do just that with the 9 to 3 drill I posted about but I shanked most times.ABS has been a gift and allowed me to rotate the hosel away from the ball.If I can progress to the super slutting module?suggested by Dairic I firmly believe I will look just like the picture in my avatar at impact

[dairic]

Frank, to look like your avatar you need to stay in forward flexion as long as you can post impact. This is called lagging PA#6. This is only possible with super flat lie angles with the stiffest shafts you can find. It's really not possible to do this using clubs made after 1990. As you know today's blades are way too forgiving which makes it impossible to get the amount of feedback required for top level BS.

Best of luck.

[FrankLinnear]

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1419905948' post='10658177']
Frank, to look like your avatar you need to stay in forward flexion as long as you can post impact. This is called lagging PA#6. This is only possible with super flat lie angles with the stiffest shafts you can find. It's really not possible to do this using clubs made after 1990. As you know today's blades are way too forgiving which makes it impossible to get the amount of feedback required for top level BS.

Best of luck.
[/quote]
Ha you know a chunk of the ABS.John was kind enough to send me a link to buy some macgregot blades a few months back.I paid $2790 for them but the shafts are dynamic gold x300 which was great.Not sure if I got ripped off though there is a set on eBay going for $7 right now.iI was told mine were special edition from the tour van.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MacGregor-V-I-P-Limited-by-MacGregor-2-iron-w-Orig-Vintage-Steel-Shaft-/311235876420

[dairic]

I'm almost certain you got ripped. John has a weird sense of humour like that haha.

Seriously though you'll need to get someone who owns a blast furnace to smelt you the right kind of shafts.

I'm thinking to get the weight above "E" you'll need to alloy the steel. Lead is just to light in this case so best to use something like iridium to really get it right.

Fun fact: This is how all the great ball strikers of the past were able to slot the shaft on elbow plane.

Hope that helps.

[AFcelica]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1419524895' post='10640705']
Here is a guy I had the other day. Here is the only difference between these two swings. He was a lower body lead, passive arms/hands, hold the lag guy. These stills show the danger of striving for a passive arms swing, instead of coordinating everything.

The swing on the right is the one he showed up with. When I say a swing that has arms at P5 and lower body at P7, this is what I mean.

The swing on the left was me telling him not to fire his lower body at all. Just dump the right wrist angle as soon as he could to get the arms last his body and forward.

You should have seen the look on his face when he saw this. I may start a new post with these pics to show how the casting drill to speed up the arms can improve how the pivot works.
[/quote]

the swing on the right looks almost identical to mine, did you ever start a new post Monte?

[Openwater22]

I was with DC today in J'ville and there was Zero BS.

[Hoganstriker]

Lead powder down the shafts weights em up good to produce the abs shankaroo special heavy.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='AFcelica' timestamp='1419964012' post='10660903']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1419524895' post='10640705']
Here is a guy I had the other day. Here is the only difference between these two swings. He was a lower body lead, passive arms/hands, hold the lag guy. These stills show the danger of striving for a passive arms swing, instead of coordinating everything.

The swing on the right is the one he showed up with. When I say a swing that has arms at P5 and lower body at P7, this is what I mean.

The swing on the left was me telling him not to fire his lower body at all. Just dump the right wrist angle as soon as he could to get the arms last his body and forward.

You should have seen the look on his face when he saw this. I may start a new post with these pics to show how the casting drill to speed up the arms can improve how the pivot works.
[/quote]

the swing on the right looks almost identical to mine, did you ever start a new post Monte?
[/quote]

I didn't. Have a blog post next Monday with it.

[dpc]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419799488' post='10652109']
Or that the shoulder moving down and forward slows down how fast the right arm straightens. Which is why it can straighten as fast as possible and straightening sooner allows the right shoulder to keep moving. If you delay straightening it the right shoulder will have to stall to get right arm to straighten it late, because it will eventually in all swings. Beginning to straighten it early is exactly what makes it straight gradually and allows shoulders to keep rotating and not stall
[/quote]
Great post iteach. This is the payoff in this thread so far. I still have two pages to read, but I've been following the dialogue with you and russc closely. This resembles a thread this summer where you stated that the hands should move as fast as possible from the top (paraphrase).* I tried that and hit 5 great shots, but then began transitioning like Brian Gay X 2 so I quit thinking about my hands.
I think the issue isn't that good swings should or do straighten the R elbow early, but how to do it without messing up your sequence. This fills in a piece.

-dpc

*Edit: it was the Bender article referenced later in this thread I was thinking of; Iteach may or not have posted in that one, I didn't go through to look.

[InaSilentWay]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419792291' post='10651577']
[quote name='comrade1' timestamp='1419787855' post='10651273']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419773583' post='10650471']
No it will feel like right side is stay back and closed. The arms will pull chest around. At full speed shoulders will turn. Don't have to think about it at all
[/quote]

Hi Dan. Thanks for all of your informative info. I have benefited greatly.

Is this what you mean by the arms pulling the chest around? Thanks

[attachment=2548819:image.jpg]
[/quote]

Once hands get in line with your sternum you can't move your hands forward, which they will go forward and have a lot of momentum, without turning. Try extending both arms out in front of you with hands together. Now try move your arms forward without turning while keeping arms extended. You won't be able to. Chest has to turn as arms go forward while extended. You have zero choice
[/quote]

So it isnt' possible..or very difficult to get the hands and arms past the midpoint of the chest during the down swing because the upper body will react to the arms and won't allow it? Someone else said the number one malfunction in golf is that the arms and hands get past the midline of the chest on the downswing.

[Hstead]

[quote name='InaSilentWay' timestamp='1420031776' post='10664507']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419792291' post='10651577']
[quote name='comrade1' timestamp='1419787855' post='10651273']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1419773583' post='10650471']
No it will feel like right side is stay back and closed. The arms will pull chest around. At full speed shoulders will turn. Don't have to think about it at all
[/quote]

Hi Dan. Thanks for all of your informative info. I have benefited greatly.

Is this what you mean by the arms pulling the chest around? Thanks

[attachment=2548819:image.jpg]
[/quote]

Once hands get in line with your sternum you can't move your hands forward, which they will go forward and have a lot of momentum, without turning. Try extending both arms out in front of you with hands together. Now try move your arms forward without turning while keeping arms extended. You won't be able to. Chest has to turn as arms go forward while extended. You have zero choice
[/quote]

So it isnt' possible..or very difficult to get the hands and arms past the midpoint of the chest during the down swing because the upper body will react to the arms and won't allow it? Someone else said the number one malfunction in golf is that the arms and hands get past the midline of the chest on the downswing.
[/quote]

Key is both arms extended and straight' then arms can't move without chest and shoulders going with them

[Millbrook]

Anyone worked on this and had a few shanks. I did today on range and presume that it's caused by insufficient rotation. Any thoughts.

[russc1597187869]

CAVEAT:I HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER THESE NUMBERS ARE VALID NOR DO I HAVE KNOW WHAT TECHNOLOGY WAS USED TO DERIVE THESE NUMBERS.

In their website they describe this measurement as between the longitudinal axes of 2 body segments

 

The web site where i found this chart is included in the link just above the chart

 

Note: the numbers are relative to a fully straightened arm .To derive the amount of bend you have to subtract the numbers on the chart from 180

 

 

If the numbers are valid it does suggest a few things.First is that touring pros straighten their trail arm very gradually in the downswing,and average 32 degrees at impact.Amateurs average a little over 40 degrees arm bend at impact .In the very late stages of the downswing(solid vertical line at about the %85 time mark) both amateurs and pros have their arms bent about 65 degrees.This suggests that the amount of extension by the pros is greater than that of amateurs from this point until impact.

 

A number of Iteach students have stated that the idea of straightening their right arm away has helped their swing.Maybe it is not the fact that the arm actually straightens in the early downswing,but that the feel of straightening helps them in other ways??

 

http://www.clubmaker...-pga-tour-pros/

[Silky]

Russc,

Do you have similar chart for the angle of the upper trail arm wrt to the pivot or spine?
For me, the action of "straightening the trail arm" is similar to hammering action. You move the whole trail arm down before releasing the angle at the elbow of the trail arm.

[iteachgolf]

Russ the downswing takes 2-3 tenth a of a second. Faster than human reaction time. To get it to straighten more by impact it the intent must be there before you start down. Like I said the speed of the right shoulder makes it gradual and makes it impossible to do too fast. If it becomes too straight too soon it's the right shoulder that's the issue not the right arm.