How You Can Build a Single-length (or close to it) Set of Irons

[pearsonified]

Kelco, If you had bothered to read any of the thousands of words I've posted here, you'd understand why single-length irons are not reasonable for most people.

In addition, you might realize that the primary gains come in the long irons, as even an inch less on your 4 and 5-iron can make a tremendous difference with consistency.

[vangator1]

Looks like you've reduced the variability from 8 irons to 4 irons. Why not 1 length to reduce that variability to 1 length. I have read all the posts. I do understand lead tape buildup.. I've gone that route in the past.

The Simpletons (lousy name IMO) uses 2 lengths. That's interesting.

[harmoor72]

Probally gonna need to pin this thread/post in the future as I am sure there will be even more interest in this concept as Bryson Dechambeau is in the finals at the U.S. Amateurs. Got some Tommy Armour E.Q.L. irons on the way myself...lol.

[pearsonified]

vangator, my Nike VR Pros are 2-length, and I covered the two reasons I decided to go with 4 lengths in an earlier post:[list=1]
[*]It's not practical to load up a club head with 20+ grams of lead tape. The tape falls off after a dozen or so rounds, and you become the golfing equivalent of Sisyphus with lead tape—no fun.
[*]I found that I had no trouble moving between lengths in the 35.5"-37.5" range. This "adaptability zone" allowed me to design my set around a greater variety of lengths, and this was essential for reducing the amount of lead tape required to MOI-match the set.
[/list]

[Kelco]

I have read almost this entire thread, including your posts (well, most of them). I have also studied the SL concept quite extensively, and have played both 1Irons and Pinhawks. I had my 1Irons in play for about 4 years beginning in 2008. So, I think that I have a fairly good grasp of the SL concept.

When discussing the SL concept some years back, I had mentioned that I had difficulty getting used to the 7-iron length long irons. I was suggesting that I was interested in trying a two-length set (much along with what Simpleton Golf has done (and I agree with you Vangator -- that is the dumbest name ever)). When I said this in an e-mail exchange with Tom Wishon he said "If you go to two-lengths, you really have undermined the benefit of a single-length set." I wonder what he would say about four lengths.

To get a sense of what he might say, I'll do a little figurin'. Now, in a 4-GW set, there are 8 lengths, so you have cut the number in half. But many people have their wedges all the same length, bringing the number of lengths down to seven, and some people play their wedges the same length as their 9-iron, bringing it down to six. So, you have found a really involved process to get your set from 6/7 lengths to 4. Radical, man, radical.

[color=#282828]A couple other points: [/color][list]
[*][color=#282828]You say that if I had bothered to read any your thousands of words you have posted here (which I have) I would understand why single-length irons are not reasonable for most people. No, what I would find is why YOU BELIEVE that they are not reasonable for most people. I, David Lake, Value Golf, Tom Wishon, Ostrich Golf, some designers at Tommy Armour, and I suspect many others have concluded that this is entirely reasonable for many, if not most, golfers. But I believe, and I think Tom Wishon would agree, that they only become reasonable (or, more accurately, most effective -- they are as reasonable "unfitted" as unfitted multi-length sets) when they are custom fit in terms of the weight, flex, and feel of the shaft, and then tailored for length, lie, and MOI. When this is done, SL irons will work for most people. [/color]
[*][color=#282828]You say, rather authoritatively, that [/color][color=#282828]the primary gains in a SL set come in the long irons. While these gains may be the most obvious and most immediately apparent, most people who have played single-length irons for any length of time will tell you the benefits of SL short-irons. Go to the 1Iron forums and read a bit. My 1Iron GW, SW, LW, all built to a 7-iron length, are all still in my bag. They are comfortable to stand over, easy to swing, and are point and shoot. No changes in set-up, no changes in feel. If the benefit of SL was primarily in the long-irons, it would the long-irons still in my bag, not the short-irons.[/color]
[/list]

(And while I'm at it, I let your rather snarky response to my earlier message go, but since I'm posting here, I want to clear that one up, too. I posted that I was noticing that many earlier responses in the thread seemed to suggest that there was [color=#282828]little interest in long irons that are any shorter than a 6-iron (I still stand by that comment, BTW). This lends support for a two-length set. Your response was "[/color][color=#282828]This is not true at all. My Nike VR Pros play to 37" (7-iron length) in the 3-7, and 36" (9-iron length) in the 8-P. I absolutely love the shorter 3 and 4-irons and can hit them far more confidently than "standard" 38.5" or 39" versions." I find it interesting that your long-irons are now a 6-iron length.) [/color]

[color=#282828]Keep working at this single-length concept a bit longer and I'm sure you'll be able to get your set up to six or seven lengths in no time.[/color]

[harmoor72]

Well hopefully we will see even more interest and studies on this concept as Bryson won the U.S. Amateur and more people noticed his unique club set up.

[pearsonified]

Kelco, when I said "reasonable for most people," I meant cost. That is what people care about most. [b]Many may be curious about experimenting with a single-length set on their own, but few if any will pay the $3500+ necessary to get there.[/b]

Also, keep in mind that this is WRX, where people prefer the look of clubs from established brands. The Pinhawks and the 1irons may be great heads (and are certainly perfect for SL applications), but they would get beat like a drum in a beauty contest. (Though if anyone from Value Golf is reading this, I'd be interesting in demoing the Pinhawks!)

Furthermore, while trying to pin me into a corner over the length of the longer irons, you've flat out dismissed my biggest concern—too much lead tape on the heads followed by a Sisyphusian application and re-application of tape over time. The extra length (half a freakin' inch) mitigates this problem, and my ballstriking with these latest 4 and 5-irons has actually improved versus the 37" versions.

Next, I actually agree with your point about six different lengths (which is actually BS considering typical 1/2" progressions coupled with different lengths in wedge offerings, such as those from Scor). [b]To minimize cost while maximizing benefits, most people should probably just re-shaft their 3-6 irons, add some lead tape, and be done with it.[/b]

Finally, I personally feel like the advantages in the shorter irons are mostly hogwash. The swing plane simply does not change much—especially with matched MOIs)—over one inch in shaft length. Would a pro notice the difference? Absolutely, but I'd be shocked if this had any measurable effect whatsoever on your average 2+ handicap.

All of this said, though, [b]I DO think a single-length set of custom-built heads is the ultimate answer[/b]. There is absolutely a certain length and lie that is best for your body type, and building a set to those exact specifications should yield the most consistent results. The only problem is figuring out precisely what those specs are!

[JCapps]

I'm very interested in doing something like this with an old set of adams mb2s.

In an effort to get a true single length set, I'm contemplating SLOWLY drilling out the brass plugs on the shorter irons until the desired weight is reached, then adding lead tape to the long irons.

I'm open to any thoughts. Might this possibly work or will I just be ruining some great irons?

[chicolax2]

As promised, I've got an update on my progress with the Adams CMBs as well as a few pictures of these babies...

 

After a few rounds with my first custom-length set of Nike VR Pro blades, I realized I could make a few tweaks and likely end up with a better set overall; these Adams CMBs are the product of those optimizations.

 

Now that I've played 10 rounds and had 4 range sessions with the CMBs, I can confidently proclaim these to be the best irons I've ever hit. In those 10 rounds, I've averaged 9.625 GIR per round, which is about 1.625 GIR over my 2015 average.

 

While that stat alone hints at better iron play, a deeper analysis reveals even more benefits:

• My par 3 scoring average has improved significantly to 0.3 strokes over par per hole (down from 0.8).
  
• I'm averaging 1.2 more "pars or better" per round, despite ABYSMAL putting while playing the CMBs
  
• I've made par or better from fairway bunkers 100% of the time during those 10 rounds.
  

Before I moved to custom-length sets, I constantly fought hooks and fat shots, and I almost never took a proper divot. Now, I take dollar-sized divots about 1/2" after the ball, and I'm making the best contact of my life. As a result, my distance—and especially distance consistency—has improved with every club in the bag.

 

The bottom line is I now have confidence with my irons that I've never had before. At this point, if I'm 230 yards or less from the green, I'm pretty sure I'm going to stick it. Obviously, this makes golf about a million times more fun :D

 

And now for the pics!

 

Although this set is 4-G, I never miss my 3-iron. In fact, I'm hitting this 4-iron (which is bent to 22º) farther than I've ever hit a 3-iron in the past.

 

This set is MOI-matched, and this process requires the addition of lead tape to most of the heads. The P and G have the heaviest swing weights at C8.9, and as the clubs get longer, the SW decreases by 0.65 points per 1/2". (The overall SW is low because of the huge Jumbomax grips I'm using. However, even if you're used to D2, I bet these would feel quite heavy.)

 

The 4 and 5 irons play to 37.5", 6 and 7 to 37", 8 and 9 to 36.5", and P and G to 36".

 

Next, notice the different patterns I used to apply lead tape to the heads. The irregular cavities of the CMBs require some creativity—and some trial and error, unfortunately—to get enough tape on the heads to make custom-length sets work. I have some additional thoughts on this, which I'll share below.

 

 

Finally, I have a couple of thoughts on the CMBs that will inform the next set I build.

 

First, I don't love the fact I made the 9 and 8-irons play to 36.5". At the very least, the 9-G of my next set will be 36", and I'm still considering making the 8-iron 36" as well. I want maximum control over my scoring clubs, and I also want to tighten up the distance gaps even more now that I've gained nearly 10 yards per club.

 

Despite the fact I've got DG SL shafts on the P and G (I do this to lower SW while increasing the perceived head weight on 36" clubs), I have been quite pleased with my ability to control the ball flight while avoiding unwanted spin. People often complain about ballooning lighter shafts, but at 36", I haven't noticed any problems whatsoever. In fact, I've never had such precise control over my trajectory with higher-lofted clubs before.

 

Second, I am going to use Adams MB2s for my next custom-length set for two reasons: [1] These are the best irons ever made, and [2] musclebacks are about 1000 times easier than cavity backs for adding lead tape. Because of this, the MB2s will end up at a tighter tolerance than I'll ever achieve with the CMBs.

 

Now, with all of that said, I am LOVING my CMBs. I've pured more shots in the last 3 weeks than I ever did in the first 34 years of my life combined :D

 

Thank you so much for this incredible thread. This has drastically changed how my next set will be built. Club length for me has to be the most overrated aspect of a club. I'm a shorter golfer and play 1/2 under length now. After a variety of club fitters we're adamant about not shortening my irons while at the same time when I was choking down on the clubs I hit them longer and more accurate. I realized that a consistent and fit swing meant a whole lot more than keeping things standard. Recently I have been choking up in the longer lengths across the board and started to realize that I essentially was attempting to build a one club set in my mind, however the longer clubs felt too light and the lie angles we obviously off.

 

So, now I am in the beginning process of building my first set of custom irons and the information provided has been invaluable. Couple questions when you were building your CMBs. Lie angles swing weights that is all clicking with me. The part of the equation I am struggling to grasp is what length shafts did you start off with that you cut for each grouping of irons 4 to 5; 6 to 7; 8 to 9 and what went into those decisions? i.e. how it would effect shaft flex and launch angle. I've got a set of j40 dpc's that I can't wait to game.

 

Thank you again.

[Golf Puff]

I looked through this thread quickly and may have missed something. Tommy Armour made a set of equal length irons shortly after introducing the 845s, one of the most popular iron sets of its time (if not all-time). They were called the EQL (yes, for Equal length). They never really caught on. One would think the head weights would be matching for the equal length shafts. I'd be willing to guess you could find some of these on ebay or wherever, and you can select whatever shaft type you want as well as hard/soft step the shafts for as much customization, quite easily and probably inexpensively. You are going to have to buy shafts for the project anyway, so buy a set of identical shafts and make them 'your way'!

[Buddha]

While I have been toying with the idea of something similar, I was wondering if you tipped the shafts a bit, so that your groups of lengths have similar tip flexes, or did you just leave them as is? I have two sets of heads sitting around, and plan on shafting one normally to use as normal, and possibly a two length setup, as an experimental set. At a quick glance, like you mention with weight adding, I could end up with two irons (4, 7) with a 10g tip weight and ~10-12 grams of lead to get them to match the weight of the lowest iron. That in itself is more a function of the lighter shafts I have for the irons (KBS Tour 90), and trying to get close to a D2, D3 weight.

[makunz]

Hey Pearsonified

 

How´s it going with your new DIY single length golf clubs. I remember last thing you said was to put together a set with Adams MB2´s? How does it come along? How did you solve the weight distribution? Did you drill weigth ports in the heads and added some tungsten screws? That lead tape rape on the other clubs looks pretty nasty methinks... (Btw. love your idea and this thread: would be nice if you´d add some updates soon.)

[tascot]

I have built a 2 length set, using maltby te irons. I've found mixing lead powder with 5 minute epoxy, mix with one part first to distribute lead, works well. Hold the head in the best position as it dries for the weighting. You can drill holes in epoxy and trim it when it's dry for fine tuning.I drilled some steel from the short irons, and filled holes with a lighter epoxy lead mix to restore solidity to the head, but still lowering the headweight. The trick is to add remove, weight at the right spot in club head.I removed weight low in short irons and added middle in long irons, helps with trajectory. You can then fine tune with small amounts of lead tape.I also have half inch tip trim progression in the set.

[tascot]

Personified, great thread,

This seems to work. The epoxy lead mix stays on permanently and drilling out some steel, if possible , helps with the head weight in the short irons. If your going to try SL irons, or similar, you have to go all the way modifying. Forget about resale.

[vangator1]

Except for Chicolax2, I haven't heard much talk about what you are doing for the lie angles of your irons. Having the proper lie so the sole lies flat when striking the ball is of major importance.

[tascot]

These are 1035 carbon steel,they can be bent considerably on my lie machine. That's the reason I used them, and the accomodating shape of the back of the head, easy to add weight to, and plenty of meat to drill into. I guess I've voided the warranty though.

[golfnhack]

In all honesty people, why not just buy the Pinhawk SLs? Quality is fantastic an at $18 a club head, what do you have to lose? No messing with weights and lie angles. No lead tape. Your feel will be consistent. These are VERY good feeling irons. I only have two minor issues. I wish there was a 5 hybrid that gave 5 iron distance but with a higher trajectory. I find the 5 iron trajectory a little low. #2. I wish the short irons had a little thinner top line. These are still the best irons I have ever hit, and feel is more solid than anything I have ever hit. If you still have doubts, why not just order a GW or SW, 7 or 8, and 5 or 6 iron. It will cost you less than $90 for 3 fully built clubs and those three irons will allow you to see how it feels to hit short, mid, and long irons that are single length. If you like it, you simply order the missing irons. If you don't, you are out a whopping $90. You could probably sell them on WRX for $75, and you would lose $15. Just a thought.

[makunz]

Hey Golfnhack

 

thanks for the tip... BUT I´m a lefty. I would love to buy something like the Pinehawks, but they do RH clubs only. So I try to figure something out myself. I just bought a set of Maltby KE4´s, the ones with the weight-screws adapted. I will try to match the clubs by adding different screws... I will start next week.

Also I´m playing around with some single lenght hybrids. Just want to see if theres any difference in shot lenght if I cut my hybrids all to the same length. And yes, they have bendable hosels...

 

Mak

[golfnhack]

Hey Golfnhack

 

thanks for the tip... BUT I´m a lefty. I would love to buy something like the Pinehawks, but they do RH clubs only. So I try to figure something out myself. I just bought a set of Maltby KE4´s, the ones with the weight-screws adapted. I will try to match the clubs by adding different screws... I will start next week.

Also I´m playing around with some single lenght hybrids. Just want to see if theres any difference in shot lenght if I cut my hybrids all to the same length. And yes, they have bendable hosels...

 

Mak

 

Unfortunately the movable weight is not enough to make them all the same weight. Good luck though. Sucks to be a lefty.

[Retkram]

Bryson Dechambeau on his single length irons - how he got into it and the big grips.

 

 

[makunz]

It will come pretty close though... Yeah clubwise it sucks sometimes, but otherwise it´s pretty ok ;-)

[makunz]

Bryson Dechambeau on his single length irons - how he got into it and the big grips.

 

 

Thanks for the vid. Yes I will also try larger grips. He says he puts them in the "lifeline" of his hands... pretty interesting. Think Moe did it that way too. BTW seen an interesting video of Fred Couples. He´s got his right hand underneath the grip A LOT, and even seems to let go the pressure completely in his release

[vangator1]

In all honesty people, why not just buy the Pinhawk SLs? Quality is fantastic an at $18 a club head, what do you have to lose? No messing with weights and lie angles. No lead tape. Your feel will be consistent. These are VERY good feeling irons. I only have two minor issues. I wish there was a 5 hybrid that gave 5 iron distance but with a higher trajectory. I find the 5 iron trajectory a little low. #2. I wish the short irons had a little thinner top line. These are still the best irons I have ever hit, and feel is more solid than anything I have ever hit. If you still have doubts, why not just order a GW or SW, 7 or 8, and 5 or 6 iron. It will cost you less than $90 for 3 fully built clubs and those three irons will allow you to see how it feels to hit short, mid, and long irons that are single length. If you like it, you simply order the missing irons. If you don't, you are out a whopping $90. You could probably sell them on WRX for $75, and you would lose $15. Just a thought.

 

I think it would be more than $90. The cost is 18.95 per head. You would need to include a shaft for say $10 and a grip for maybe $6. Plus if you had ValueGolf build them, I think they have a charge for their services.

 

I just built the 4 thru LW. I figure it cost to build them myself was

(18.95 per head + 3.99 for FST 115 micro step shaft + 6 for Golf Pride Tour Wraps) times 10 ~= $290. Minor cost for grip tape and epoxy.

[Noodler]

Search on the new Wishon Sterling SL irons coming in March 2016.

 

And I have to say, this thread is incorrectly titled as the OP did not achieve an SL set (as was mentioned by a couple other posters). It's a practical impossibility to achieve SL with OTS iron heads. What can be done with OTS heads is a very nice 3/8" increment, MOI-matched build... which is really where the OP's sets should have headed to avoid a lot of the "shenanigans" that were required. This was like re-inventing the wheel... a wheel with straight sides. ;)

[tascot]

Vangator1 , how's the trajectory with your new pinhawk short irons, 8-GW?

[golfnhack]

In all honesty people, why not just buy the Pinhawk SLs? Quality is fantastic an at $18 a club head, what do you have to lose? No messing with weights and lie angles. No lead tape. Your feel will be consistent. These are VERY good feeling irons. I only have two minor issues. I wish there was a 5 hybrid that gave 5 iron distance but with a higher trajectory. I find the 5 iron trajectory a little low. #2. I wish the short irons had a little thinner top line. These are still the best irons I have ever hit, and feel is more solid than anything I have ever hit. If you still have doubts, why not just order a GW or SW, 7 or 8, and 5 or 6 iron. It will cost you less than $90 for 3 fully built clubs and those three irons will allow you to see how it feels to hit short, mid, and long irons that are single length. If you like it, you simply order the missing irons. If you don't, you are out a whopping $90. You could probably sell them on WRX for $75, and you would lose $15. Just a thought.

 

I think it would be more than $90. The cost is 18.95 per head. You would need to include a shaft for say $10 and a grip for maybe $6. Plus if you had ValueGolf build them, I think they have a charge for their services.

 

I just built the 4 thru LW. I figure it cost to build them myself was

(18.95 per head + 3.99 for FST 115 micro step shaft + 6 for Golf Pride Tour Wraps) times 10 ~= $290. Minor cost for grip tape and epoxy.

 

So $29 X 3 = ?????

[vangator1]

In all honesty people, why not just buy the Pinhawk SLs? Quality is fantastic an at $18 a club head, what do you have to lose? No messing with weights and lie angles. No lead tape. Your feel will be consistent. These are VERY good feeling irons. I only have two minor issues. I wish there was a 5 hybrid that gave 5 iron distance but with a higher trajectory. I find the 5 iron trajectory a little low. #2. I wish the short irons had a little thinner top line. These are still the best irons I have ever hit, and feel is more solid than anything I have ever hit. If you still have doubts, why not just order a GW or SW, 7 or 8, and 5 or 6 iron. It will cost you less than $90 for 3 fully built clubs and those three irons will allow you to see how it feels to hit short, mid, and long irons that are single length. If you like it, you simply order the missing irons. If you don't, you are out a whopping $90. You could probably sell them on WRX for $75, and you would lose $15. Just a thought.

 

I think it would be more than $90. The cost is 18.95 per head. You would need to include a shaft for say $10 and a grip for maybe $6. Plus if you had ValueGolf build them, I think they have a charge for their services.

 

I just built the 4 thru LW. I figure it cost to build them myself was

(18.95 per head + 3.99 for FST 115 micro step shaft + 6 for Golf Pride Tour Wraps) times 10 ~= $290. Minor cost for grip tape and epoxy.

 

So $29 X 3 = ?????

 

I probably should have made it clearer that I didn't think you could get them fully built for $90. they would cost something to have them built. I then went into the cost of building the 10 I did.

[vangator1]

Vangator1 , how's the trajectory with your new pinhawk short irons, 8-GW?

 

I think the trajectory is pretty similar to any other 8 - GW I've hit. They go further though. My 60* LW is 37". I just dial down the swing for shorter shots. It is nice to have the longer "short" irons though. I can get height and length to go over trees etc without over swinging. Plus, I can always choke up if wanted.

 

I'm really impressed with these irons. With the FST shafts and ProSoft inserts, the clubs feel like my old forged irons. Like butter.

[AMATEUR_GOLFER79]

So if I was gonna experiment with this in my long irons 6,5,4 what would I need shaft wise to get them to play like my 7 iron?

 

Do I have them install a 7 iron shaft into the 6,5,4 or do I go a different route?

 

I playing Mizuno MP25 with KBS tour 120 stiff soft steppedI figured I would order a 6,5,4 from them with whatever u consider the proper shaft, and have them do the loft and lie adjustment at Mizuno. Then when they ship I could work the swing weight issues out to match the 7iron with tip weights and or lead tape. The worst case is it doesn't Orl out and I haven't messed up my original 4,5,6 iron

[Noodler]

So if I was gonna experiment with this in my long irons 6,5,4 what would I need shaft wise to get them to play like my 7 iron?

 

Do I have them install a 7 iron shaft into the 6,5,4 or do I go a different route?

 

I playing Mizuno MP25 with KBS tour 120 stiff soft steppedI figured I would order a 6,5,4 from them with whatever u consider the proper shaft, and have them do the loft and lie adjustment at Mizuno. Then when they ship I could work the swing weight issues out to match the 7iron with tip weights and or lead tape. The worst case is it doesn't Orl out and I haven't messed up my original 4,5,6 iron

I highly doubt you could order the clubs with these specs (especially using a 7 iron shaft across the longer irons). Mizuno will customize, but not to this extent. You would have to go through a fitter/builder to pull this off if you can't do the work yourself.