Question for Blade Players

[dog flog]

[quote name='dog flog' timestamp='1440462148' post='12202064']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1440461181' post='12201952']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1440460286' post='12201864']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1440454345' post='12201304']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440437131' post='12199504']
<paste>
[color=#282828]You'd be able to hit your highest shots higher if you played GMax but your lowest shots would be lower with MP4s. Every design has its limitations and the human operator should be cognizant of what those limitations are and how they interact with his tendencies if he's going to find what works best for himself. [/color]
[color=#282828]<end paste>[/color]

[color=#282828]exactly...good one DF. It really isnt complicated. there are tradeoffs[/color]

[color=#282828]personally I think the [b]POTENTIAL for 3-6 feet better dispersion with blades but ONLY on a perfectly struck shot isnt worth giving up consistently solid on target ball contact[/b] which lead to consistently better scoring. not to mention those days when you arent hittin' it that great (i do realize that some wrx'ers evidently dont seem to have off ball striking days).....[/color]
[/quote]

Thank you.

The blade guys like to stick with how much tighter the dispersion is and how much more "consistent" the distance (direction ?) is with a well struck blade vs. a well struck CB.

Meanwhile, every golfer should ask themselves this - How often are [u][b]TOUR players[/b][/u] exactly pin high or within 3 yards left or right of the pin even with sand wedges into the green.

Answer - not all that often.

So what chance do double digit HCers,,,,,,, or even single digit HCers,,,,,,, have of hitting ANY club within 10 feet or so on ANY given (full) shot ? Allowing for wind ? Allowing for the firmness of the green and the tilt ? Correct the first time. Not much.

So "precision" ? "Consistency" ? For guys who are NEITHER ? When the Pros can't do it consistently. Give me a break.
[/quote]

Granted I'm a plus handicap golfer but I would say that I hit it between 3-4 yards long or short of my target approximately 12-13 times per round. This is the single biggest thing that separates below scratch golfers from high single handicap golfers. Tour pros do it all of the time. It's just that a lot of the time their "target" is not actually the pin.

I'm almost never a full club short and when I play with my high single cap buddies or high teen handicap buddies, they are hardly ever pin high and almost all of their shots are short.

I'm surprised that anyone would make an argument that pros don't hit the ball their intended distance very often....


It's a lot harder on really firm fast greens but when the course soft and easy, they pepper their target distance on almost every shot.
[/quote]

I'm going by what I see.

And I'll grant you their target distance isn't always the flag but their ultimate target is.

And keep in mind we're only seeing the BEST of that tournament. The others are almost certainly worse; that weekend anyway. And the best still aren't [u]ending up[/u] pin high 50% of the time. And these guys are the best in the world.

I will grant you, as a +3 do and probably should have, exceptional distance control but no CB guys are ever going to suggest that YOU play CBs.

But keep in mind that the CB guys aren't talking about exceptionally skilled players. Most of the time when this sort of discussion comes up it's a 10+ handicapper asking if they should play blades.

And the CB guys, pretty much to a man I might add, besides [u]suggesting[/u] these guys should be playing CBs, ALSO say that anyone should play [u]anything[/u] they want for [u]whatever reasons[/u] they want.
[/quote]To be fair, this is exactly what 'blade guys' are wont to say. And for the record, I play CBs but don't want to be known as a CB guy or a blade guy. I'm nerdy enough without those kind of handles.
[/quote]I was referring to just gopherguts' last paragraph, where the CB guys are being very tolerant and compassionate to their fellow golfers.

[Exactice808]

I'm going by what I see.

 

And I'll grant you their target distance isn't always the flag but their ultimate target is.

 

And keep in mind we're only seeing the BEST of that tournament. The others are almost certainly worse; that weekend anyway. And the best still aren't ending up pin high 50% of the time. And these guys are the best in the world.

 

I will grant you, as a +3 do and probably should have, exceptional distance control but no CB guys are ever going to suggest that YOU play CBs.

 

But keep in mind that the CB guys aren't talking about exceptionally skilled players. Most of the time when this sort of discussion comes up it's a 10+ handicapper asking if they should play blades.

 

And the CB guys, pretty much to a man I might add, besides suggesting these guys should be playing CBs, ALSO say that anyone should play anything they want for whatever reasons they want.

 

 

This this this this this.......

 

 

This goes back to my If you suck or if you are good statement.

 

 

im an 11 I leave a lot of shots on the table, but this comes from my trending down, Before I didnt have an all around game, Improved my short game, then I had to work on my long game, then I had to work on my short game again, then now I have THE ALL AROUND GAME....now its a mental game to put it all together.

 

I can birdie with the likes of my scratch and + players, but I cant do it consistently.....Nor do I have the mental fortitude to keep a level head.....

 

 

99% of these threads pop up from guys that either JUST shot a 79 for the first time in their life and feel they are ready to hit the big stage. Or the guy that just had a 1 in a life time round and pured a whole bunch of shots...... What I never understood is, if you just did that... why would you change????

 

 

There is that talented 1% kid that was a 10 handi and then scratch in 1 year after 2 years of playing.... that knows nothing about equipment and has a question..... but these threads are all around that 18-10 Handicap range......If not they are lying......... Addiction sucks....... but the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem....

 

[Wknd_Warrior]

[quote]
Granted I'm a plus handicap golfer but I would say that I hit it between 3-4 yards long or short of my target approximately 12-13 times per round. This is the single biggest thing that separates below scratch golfers from high single handicap golfers.
[/quote]
I actually did that today and still shot in the 80s , I must be the pin high king of double digit players lol.

[Wknd_Warrior]

I don't see an issue being addicted to blades

It's funny, a lot of the guys on tour only really impress in certain areas, and not always iron play. One thing they have in common is a low score at the end of the day, and they all do it a little different, but they do it.

[T.Beau]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1440462876' post='12202144']


99% of these threads pop up from guys that either JUST shot a 79 for the first time in their life and feel they are ready to hit the big stage. Or the guy that just had a 1 in a life time round and pured a whole bunch of shots...... What I never understood is, if you just did that... why would you change????



[/quote]

I think the biggest reason/answer is they would change because of the mythical stuff they hear around here about the magic of the blades. how sublime they are. how their dispersion is better, how they force you to use good technique (even if you dont have good technique i guess), how the compact head and thin topline inspires confidence..wha?, how they're really not hard to flush hit, how you need a blade to be able to really work the ball, how they feel so much better, how the negative feedback of miss hitting helps, how the blades force you to focus better...etc etc. so they have a couple good rounds with their GI irons and start the standard thread "am i ready for blades"...all because of the bad info parsed around here

[LaggingBehind]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440467887' post='12202720']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1440462876' post='12202144']
99% of these threads pop up from guys that either JUST shot a 79 for the first time in their life and feel they are ready to hit the big stage. Or the guy that just had a 1 in a life time round and pured a whole bunch of shots...... What I never understood is, if you just did that... why would you change????



[/quote]

I think the biggest reason/answer is they would change because of the mythical stuff they hear around here about the magic of the blades. how sublime they are. how their dispersion is better, how they force you to use good technique (even if you dont have good technique i guess), how the compact head and thin topline inspires confidence..wha?, how they're really not hard to flush hit, how you need a blade to be able to really work the ball, how they feel so much better, how the negative feedback of miss hitting helps, how the blades force you to focus better...etc etc. so they have a couple good rounds with their GI irons and start the standard thread "am i ready for blades"...all because of the bad info parsed around here
[/quote]
I bet your a terrible ball striker yet shoot fairly low. Someone with minimal talent who maximizes their game, so obviously you can't understand the other side of the argument.

[Exactice808]

99% of these threads pop up from guys that either JUST shot a 79 for the first time in their life and feel they are ready to hit the big stage. Or the guy that just had a 1 in a life time round and pured a whole bunch of shots...... What I never understood is, if you just did that... why would you change????

 

 

 

 

I think the biggest reason/answer is they would change because of the mythical stuff they hear around here about the magic of the blades. how sublime they are. how their dispersion is better, how they force you to use good technique (even if you dont have good technique i guess), how the compact head and thin topline inspires confidence..wha?, how they're really not hard to flush hit, how you need a blade to be able to really work the ball, how they feel so much better, how the negative feedback of miss hitting helps, how the blades force you to focus better...etc etc. so they have a couple good rounds with their GI irons and start the standard thread "am i ready for blades"...all because of the bad info parsed around here

I bet your a terrible ball striker yet shoot fairly low. Someone with minimal talent who maximizes their game, so obviously you can't understand the other side of the argument.

 

[T.Beau]

[quote name='LaggingBehind' timestamp='1440470159' post='12202970']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440467887' post='12202720']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1440462876' post='12202144']
99% of these threads pop up from guys that either JUST shot a 79 for the first time in their life and feel they are ready to hit the big stage. Or the guy that just had a 1 in a life time round and pured a whole bunch of shots...... What I never understood is, if you just did that... why would you change????



[/quote]

I think the biggest reason/answer is they would change because of the mythical stuff they hear around here about the magic of the blades. how sublime they are. how their dispersion is better, how they force you to use good technique (even if you dont have good technique i guess), how the compact head and thin topline inspires confidence..wha?, how they're really not hard to flush hit, how you need a blade to be able to really work the ball, how they feel so much better, how the negative feedback of miss hitting helps, how the blades force you to focus better...etc etc. so they have a couple good rounds with their GI irons and start the standard thread "am i ready for blades"...all because of the bad info parsed around here
[/quote]
I bet your a terrible ball striker yet shoot fairly low. Someone with minimal talent who maximizes their game, so obviously you can't understand the other side of the argument.
[/quote]

no actually i am considered a good ball striker..i routinely hit a lot of greens....a lot of greens and quite often slightly short of pin high as planned..my ave score is 75..that would prob make me scratch i would think..i havent had any rounds in the 80's in months. i'm a lousy short putter (my reg guys dont give me any piutts). i learned the game with blades. i;m self taught i was also a good multisport athlete and a long time tennis teaching pro and a brief playing pro. thanks for asking and way to make it personal. i'm guessing you are a blades user

[bladehunter]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440467887' post='12202720'][quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1440462876' post='12202144']


99% of these threads pop up from guys that either JUST shot a 79 for the first time in their life and feel they are ready to hit the big stage. Or the guy that just had a 1 in a life time round and pured a whole bunch of shots...... What I never understood is, if you just did that... why would you change????



[/quote]

I think the biggest reason/answer is they would change because of the mythical stuff they hear around here about the magic of the blades. how sublime they are. how their dispersion is better, how they force you to use good technique (even if you dont have good technique i guess), how the compact head and thin topline inspires confidence..wha?, how they're really not hard to flush hit, how you need a blade to be able to really work the ball, how they feel so much better, how the negative feedback of miss hitting helps, how the blades force you to focus better...etc etc. so they have a couple good rounds with their GI irons and start the standard thread "am i ready for blades"...all because of the bad info parsed around here[/quote]


This horse has been dog food for a while now. Play what YOU want and let everyone else worry about what THEY want. A good ball striker has zero trouble playing whatever suits his eye. That's the ultimate answer to this threads question. Same goes for a poor one. Won't make any difference over any length of time. Chunks a chunk , thin is thin and right and left are still where the good lord put them.

[Exactice808]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440470557' post='12203008']
[quote name='LaggingBehind' timestamp='1440470159' post='12202970']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440467887' post='12202720']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1440462876' post='12202144']
99% of these threads pop up from guys that either JUST shot a 79 for the first time in their life and feel they are ready to hit the big stage. Or the guy that just had a 1 in a life time round and pured a whole bunch of shots...... What I never understood is, if you just did that... why would you change????



[/quote]

I think the biggest reason/answer is they would change because of the mythical stuff they hear around here about the magic of the blades. how sublime they are. how their dispersion is better, how they force you to use good technique (even if you dont have good technique i guess), how the compact head and thin topline inspires confidence..wha?, how they're really not hard to flush hit, how you need a blade to be able to really work the ball, how they feel so much better, how the negative feedback of miss hitting helps, how the blades force you to focus better...etc etc. so they have a couple good rounds with their GI irons and start the standard thread "am i ready for blades"...all because of the bad info parsed around here
[/quote]
I bet your a terrible ball striker yet shoot fairly low. Someone with minimal talent who maximizes their game, so obviously you can't understand the other side of the argument.
[/quote]

no actually i am considered a good ball striker..i routinely hit a lot of greens....a lot of greens..my ave score is 75..that would prob make me scratch i would think..i havent had any rounds in the 80's in months. i'm a lousy short putter (my reg guys dont give me any piutts). i learned the game with blades. i;m self taught i was also a good multisport athlete and a long time tennis teaching pro and a brief playing pro. thanks for asking and way to make it personal
[/quote]

Its Funny,...... Tbeau..... dont get offended as you gotta think of it this way..... To really like a club style.....You actually have to be a good ballstriker to make a good decision.... LOL.....


I feel the same way of the Myths of the Blades going back and forth either way...... Good or Bad..... but the only way I could make a true judgement was to get out there become a decent ball striker and put them head to head......and right now.....I see no determinable difference...... Thats just that, I could take either set and play them the same, what will make my score go up or down is as long as I keep the ball in the fairway, and my Putting!!!!


LOL someone random calling you a terrible ball striker LOL..........HAHAHAHAAHAH I find it more funny than anything..... LOL.......





As for the "Truth" yeah....a while back when I was playing my Burner 1.0's in regular shaft I thought the only way to get good was get some Nike VrPro's and play.... yeah no... didnt work for me.....I drank the KoolAid that was being slung around..... it was funny... how you reflect back and see what worked and didnt work........

But now 2 and a half years later... I have both blades and CB and they work just fine either way and..... I like them both.... but a learned a great lesson from RRFireblade....

Who the hell rotates clubs just stick with one, So I do and just for fun I pull out the other but I dont do it regularly and with the intent to shoot a better round than the next.

[T.Beau]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1440470900' post='12203048']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440470557' post='12203008']
[quote name='LaggingBehind' timestamp='1440470159' post='12202970']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440467887' post='12202720']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1440462876' post='12202144']
99% of these threads pop up from guys that either JUST shot a 79 for the first time in their life and feel they are ready to hit the big stage. Or the guy that just had a 1 in a life time round and pured a whole bunch of shots...... What I never understood is, if you just did that... why would you change????



[/quote]

I think the biggest reason/answer is they would change because of the mythical stuff they hear around here about the magic of the blades. how sublime they are. how their dispersion is better, how they force you to use good technique (even if you dont have good technique i guess), how the compact head and thin topline inspires confidence..wha?, how they're really not hard to flush hit, how you need a blade to be able to really work the ball, how they feel so much better, how the negative feedback of miss hitting helps, how the blades force you to focus better...etc etc. so they have a couple good rounds with their GI irons and start the standard thread "am i ready for blades"...all because of the bad info parsed around here
[/quote]
I bet your a terrible ball striker yet shoot fairly low. Someone with minimal talent who maximizes their game, so obviously you can't understand the other side of the argument.
[/quote]

no actually i am considered a good ball striker..i routinely hit a lot of greens....a lot of greens..my ave score is 75..that would prob make me scratch i would think..i havent had any rounds in the 80's in months. i'm a lousy short putter (my reg guys dont give me any piutts). i learned the game with blades. i;m self taught i was also a good multisport athlete and a long time tennis teaching pro and a brief playing pro. thanks for asking and way to make it personal
[/quote]

Its Funny,...... Tbeau..... dont get offended as you gotta think of it this way..... To really like a club style.....You actually have to be a good ballstriker to make a good decision.... LOL.....



LOL someone random calling you a terrible ball striker LOL..........HAHAHAHAAHAH I find it more funny than anything..... LOL.......

[/quote]

yea man, it would be funny were it not so pathetic.

[Exactice808]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440471335' post='12203086']


yea man, it would be funny were it not so pathetic.
[/quote]

Im going to agree.... its sad, I see people and I hate to say pathetic.... but..... They have just the most terrible swing..... and they think its the irons and they change irons SOOOOOO much hoping and praying that it will fix their swing.


Or when they start hitting their "Recommended" fitted irons really well, they think its time to change to something better.......... LOL........why.. are you changing.... I want to V8 forehead slap them.....

[Wknd_Warrior]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440470557' post='12203008']
[quote name='LaggingBehind' timestamp='1440470159' post='12202970']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440467887' post='12202720']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1440462876' post='12202144']
99% of these threads pop up from guys that either JUST shot a 79 for the first time in their life and feel they are ready to hit the big stage. Or the guy that just had a 1 in a life time round and pured a whole bunch of shots...... What I never understood is, if you just did that... why would you change????



[/quote]

I think the biggest reason/answer is they would change because of the mythical stuff they hear around here about the magic of the blades. how sublime they are. how their dispersion is better, how they force you to use good technique (even if you dont have good technique i guess), how the compact head and thin topline inspires confidence..wha?, how they're really not hard to flush hit, how you need a blade to be able to really work the ball, how they feel so much better, how the negative feedback of miss hitting helps, how the blades force you to focus better...etc etc. so they have a couple good rounds with their GI irons and start the standard thread "am i ready for blades"...all because of the bad info parsed around here
[/quote]
I bet your a terrible ball striker yet shoot fairly low. Someone with minimal talent who maximizes their game, so obviously you can't understand the other side of the argument.
[/quote]

no actually i am considered a good ball striker..i routinely hit a lot of greens....a lot of greens and quite often slightly short of pin high as planned..my ave score is 75..that would prob make me scratch i would think..i havent had any rounds in the 80's in months. i'm a lousy short putter (my reg guys dont give me any piutts). i learned the game with blades. i;m self taught i was also a good multisport athlete and a long time tennis teaching pro and a brief playing pro. thanks for asking and way to make it personal. i'm guessing you are a blades user
[/quote]

does it really surprise you someone made it personal?

Your post was clearly incendiary and brilliantly so in that in one short paragraph you managed to insult anyone who has ever said anything positive about blades ever.

[T.Beau]

[quote name='Wknd_Warrior' timestamp='1440472855' post='12203238']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440470557' post='12203008']
[quote name='LaggingBehind' timestamp='1440470159' post='12202970']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440467887' post='12202720']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1440462876' post='12202144']
99% of these threads pop up from guys that either JUST shot a 79 for the first time in their life and feel they are ready to hit the big stage. Or the guy that just had a 1 in a life time round and pured a whole bunch of shots...... What I never understood is, if you just did that... why would you change????



[/quote]

I think the biggest reason/answer is they would change because of the mythical stuff they hear around here about the magic of the blades. how sublime they are. how their dispersion is better, how they force you to use good technique (even if you dont have good technique i guess), how the compact head and thin topline inspires confidence..wha?, how they're really not hard to flush hit, how you need a blade to be able to really work the ball, how they feel so much better, how the negative feedback of miss hitting helps, how the blades force you to focus better...etc etc. so they have a couple good rounds with their GI irons and start the standard thread "am i ready for blades"...all because of the bad info parsed around here
[/quote]
I bet your a terrible ball striker yet shoot fairly low. Someone with minimal talent who maximizes their game, so obviously you can't understand the other side of the argument.
[/quote]

no actually i am considered a good ball striker..i routinely hit a lot of greens....a lot of greens and quite often slightly short of pin high as planned..my ave score is 75..that would prob make me scratch i would think..i havent had any rounds in the 80's in months. i'm a lousy short putter (my reg guys dont give me any piutts). i learned the game with blades. i;m self taught i was also a good multisport athlete and a long time tennis teaching pro and a brief playing pro. thanks for asking and way to make it personal. i'm guessing you are a blades user
[/quote]

does it really surprise you someone made it personal?

Your post was clearly incendiary and brilliantly so in that in one short paragraph you managed to insult anyone who has ever said anything positive about blades ever.
[/quote]

all of those things are said around here. and no i am not surprised that someone made things personal in an insulting way. thats what some desperate people do when they have nothing of substance and on topic to counter with...and i think that is sad. way to make it personal

[bladehunter]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440424646' post='12198244']
[quote name='BMC' timestamp='1440380342' post='12196334']
Blades and GI both have pluses and minuses. I rarely have to an iron above a 6.
To me, blades are a surgical instrument. If I want to hit a low 7 iron 130 yards right at the pin on a soft green, I feel I can do that with a blade, but not with a GI iron.
[/quote]

problem is that most of the so called advantages of blades are glorified, mystical, mythical, and contrived or just perceived reality which most usually does not match real world reality.

it's been proven that the advantage of playing blades is for the POSSIBLE 3 feet better dispersion from 160 yards side to side and the POSSIBLE 6 feet better dispersion front to back BUT ONLY on a perfect strike which is exceedingly rare for almost all golfers.

everything else is BIG advantage GI, other than ball flight which is a wash and workability which is a wash assuming the blade is struck as well as the GI iron (which is unlikely)..if not perfectly struck, then once again, big advantage GI

i think that irons that are easier to flush hit are easier to flush hit and that it is better to flush hit than miss hit. i also dont claim to be smarter than the manufacturers who think that irons designed for very advanced ball strikers are best used by advanced ball strikers. but realize that some wrxers /think they are/ smarter than manufacturers and industry experts.

have a nice day
[/quote]



skimming this thread as it is just more of the same old same old...but it only took a quick glance to find personal jabs as early as page 2.... so please don't cry "fowl" when the barb is returned in kind.... after all passive aggression still has the word aggression in it.... we get it ..you hate any iron without a depression in the back...the whole discussion is so tired, and dare I say it..RETARDED! literally..not in a handicapped slang way, in a way that it is really causing a retardation in the actual discussion in any iron thread on here... There really cant be a thread started without someone telling someone else how stupid they are for playing x y or z.... Now admittedly I don't have to comment here...but good grief misinformation is still misinformation regardless of what opinion .(yes opinion ) camp it comes from... [url="http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=uncle+bs&FORM=VIRE9#view=detail&mid=7FBE1788CE0D84BCB3167FBE1788CE0D84BCB316"]http://www.bing.com/...788CE0D84BCB316[/url] (uncle BS link)
some in these threads remind me of the Tim Wilson skit.."Uncle BS" this guy has a story for everything.... he knows all sees all and can tell you whats better for you !!

[gopherguts]

[quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1440474146' post='12203330']
There really cant be a thread started without someone telling someone else how stupid they are for playing x y or z....
[/quote]

Exaggeration for effect ?

[T.Beau]

[quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1440474146' post='12203330']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440424646' post='12198244']
[quote name='BMC' timestamp='1440380342' post='12196334']
Blades and GI both have pluses and minuses. I rarely have to an iron above a 6.
To me, blades are a surgical instrument. If I want to hit a low 7 iron 130 yards right at the pin on a soft green, I feel I can do that with a blade, but not with a GI iron.
[/quote]

problem is that most of the so called advantages of blades are glorified, mystical, mythical, and contrived or just perceived reality which most usually does not match real world reality.

it's been proven that the advantage of playing blades is for the POSSIBLE 3 feet better dispersion from 160 yards side to side and the POSSIBLE 6 feet better dispersion front to back BUT ONLY on a perfect strike which is exceedingly rare for almost all golfers.

everything else is BIG advantage GI, other than ball flight which is a wash and workability which is a wash assuming the blade is struck as well as the GI iron (which is unlikely)..if not perfectly struck, then once again, big advantage GI

i think that irons that are easier to flush hit are easier to flush hit and that it is better to flush hit than miss hit. i also dont claim to be smarter than the manufacturers who think that irons designed for very advanced ball strikers are best used by advanced ball strikers. but realize that some wrxers /think they are/ smarter than manufacturers and industry experts.

have a nice day
[/quote]



skimming this thread as it is just more of the same old same old...but it only took a quick glance to find personal jabs as early as page 2.... so please don't cry "fowl" when the barb is returned in kind.... after all passive aggression still has the word aggression in it.... we get it ..you hate any iron without a depression in the back...the whole discussion is so tired, and dare I say it..RETARDED! literally..not in a handicapped slang way, in a way that it is really causing a retardation in the actual discussion in any iron thread on here... There really cant be a thread started without someone telling someone else how stupid they are for playing x y or z.... Now admittedly I don't have to comment here...but good grief misinformation is still misinformation regardless of what opinion .(yes opinion ) camp it comes from... [url="http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=uncle+bs&FORM=VIRE9#view=detail&mid=7FBE1788CE0D84BCB3167FBE1788CE0D84BCB316"]http://www.bing.com/...788CE0D84BCB316[/url] (uncle BS link)
some in these threads remind me of the Tim Wilson skit.."Uncle BS" this guy has a story for everything.... he knows all sees all and can tell you whats better for you !!
[/quote]

didnt read all of your post but way to make it personal, and i dont hate any iron without a depression in it..thats just a lie. as i;ve said over and over again, i agree with what the manufacturers have to say...that irons designed for very advanced ball strikers are best used by advanced ball strikers. why that brings forth the wrath of some posters really escapes me. i also dont care one bit that people play blades or whatever they play. when i came here after an 18 years absence from the game and looking for good info to get me current, i was given horrible advice, mostly by the blades enthusiasts...i;m just trying to dispel all the bad info parsed around here in a non personal way..dont believe what i say..fine with me, but all of the personalising insults are really uncalled for. so..have anything on topic to contribute?

[bladehunter]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1440474856' post='12203408']
[quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1440474146' post='12203330']
There really cant be a thread started without someone telling someone else how stupid they are for playing x y or z....
[/quote]

Exaggeration for effect ?
[/quote]



only way to go when dealing with drama .queens.... facts aren't allowed didn't you get the memo gopher? Facts like every player thinks and plays differently... or that our likes and dislikes are largely if not 100% based on personal opinions...not any real evidence of one thing directly effecting ones score for better or worse... Its just tiresome... (again I know I don't have to read it) ....who knows if the OP started this thread with pure intentions or just to see the car wreck... ...but ether way I knew it would be doomed as soon as it was noticed.... just soo funny how the opinions here differ from the real world teaching pros and better players I come in contact with .. to a man none I know of give a rip which iron you play...the general consensus is play what you like the look and feel of and practice practice practice ...

[bladehunter]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440475708' post='12203458']
[quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1440474146' post='12203330']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440424646' post='12198244']
[quote name='BMC' timestamp='1440380342' post='12196334']
Blades and GI both have pluses and minuses. I rarely have to an iron above a 6.
To me, blades are a surgical instrument. If I want to hit a low 7 iron 130 yards right at the pin on a soft green, I feel I can do that with a blade, but not with a GI iron.
[/quote]

problem is that most of the so called advantages of blades are glorified, mystical, mythical, and contrived or just perceived reality which most usually does not match real world reality.

it's been proven that the advantage of playing blades is for the POSSIBLE 3 feet better dispersion from 160 yards side to side and the POSSIBLE 6 feet better dispersion front to back BUT ONLY on a perfect strike which is exceedingly rare for almost all golfers.

everything else is BIG advantage GI, other than ball flight which is a wash and workability which is a wash assuming the blade is struck as well as the GI iron (which is unlikely)..if not perfectly struck, then once again, big advantage GI

i think that irons that are easier to flush hit are easier to flush hit and that it is better to flush hit than miss hit. i also dont claim to be smarter than the manufacturers who think that irons designed for very advanced ball strikers are best used by advanced ball strikers. but realize that some wrxers /think they are/ smarter than manufacturers and industry experts.

have a nice day
[/quote]



skimming this thread as it is just more of the same old same old...but it only took a quick glance to find personal jabs as early as page 2.... so please don't cry "fowl" when the barb is returned in kind.... after all passive aggression still has the word aggression in it.... we get it ..you hate any iron without a depression in the back...the whole discussion is so tired, and dare I say it..RETARDED! literally..not in a handicapped slang way, in a way that it is really causing a retardation in the actual discussion in any iron thread on here... There really cant be a thread started without someone telling someone else how stupid they are for playing x y or z.... Now admittedly I don't have to comment here...but good grief misinformation is still misinformation regardless of what opinion .(yes opinion ) camp it comes from... [url="http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=uncle+bs&FORM=VIRE9#view=detail&mid=7FBE1788CE0D84BCB3167FBE1788CE0D84BCB316"]http://www.bing.com/...788CE0D84BCB316[/url] (uncle BS link)
some in these threads remind me of the Tim Wilson skit.."Uncle BS" this guy has a story for everything.... he knows all sees all and can tell you whats better for you !!
[/quote]

didnt read all of your post but way to make it personal, and i dont hate any iron without a depression in it..thats just a lie. as i;ve said over and over again, i agree with what the manufacturers have to say...that irons designed for very advanced ball strikers are best used by advanced ball strikers. why that brings forth the wrath of some posters really escapes me. i also dont care one bit that people play blades or whatever they play. when i came here after an 18 years absence from the game and looking for good info to get me current, i was given horrible advice, mostly by the blades enthusiasts...i;m just trying to dispel all the bad info parsed around here in a non personal way..dont believe what i say..fine with me, but all of the personalising insults are really uncalled for. so..have anything on topic to contribute?
[/quote]



whew.... sure I do.... OPs question was "how many if any strokes will you loose or gain if switching to GI" On that topic how many if any strokes would YOU ( self proclaimed good ball striker) loose if switching to a properly fitted MB? Now rememeber to take into account a good ball striker is making center face contact often....I cant wait to hear how your scores will rise with flush hit irons shots of any brand or design.... I simply think its a conundrum you cant explain.... Now im pleased as punch that you like your current irons..we all should..but being a good ballstriker you should have ZERO trouble playing a modern MB... what gives?

[T.Beau]

[quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1440476114' post='12203482']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440475708' post='12203458']
[quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1440474146' post='12203330']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440424646' post='12198244']
[quote name='BMC' timestamp='1440380342' post='12196334']
Blades and GI both have pluses and minuses. I rarely have to an iron above a 6.
To me, blades are a surgical instrument. If I want to hit a low 7 iron 130 yards right at the pin on a soft green, I feel I can do that with a blade, but not with a GI iron.
[/quote]

problem is that most of the so called advantages of blades are glorified, mystical, mythical, and contrived or just perceived reality which most usually does not match real world reality.

it's been proven that the advantage of playing blades is for the POSSIBLE 3 feet better dispersion from 160 yards side to side and the POSSIBLE 6 feet better dispersion front to back BUT ONLY on a perfect strike which is exceedingly rare for almost all golfers.

everything else is BIG advantage GI, other than ball flight which is a wash and workability which is a wash assuming the blade is struck as well as the GI iron (which is unlikely)..if not perfectly struck, then once again, big advantage GI

i think that irons that are easier to flush hit are easier to flush hit and that it is better to flush hit than miss hit. i also dont claim to be smarter than the manufacturers who think that irons designed for very advanced ball strikers are best used by advanced ball strikers. but realize that some wrxers /think they are/ smarter than manufacturers and industry experts.

have a nice day
[/quote]



skimming this thread as it is just more of the same old same old...but it only took a quick glance to find personal jabs as early as page 2.... so please don't cry "fowl" when the barb is returned in kind.... after all passive aggression still has the word aggression in it.... we get it ..you hate any iron without a depression in the back...the whole discussion is so tired, and dare I say it..RETARDED! literally..not in a handicapped slang way, in a way that it is really causing a retardation in the actual discussion in any iron thread on here... There really cant be a thread started without someone telling someone else how stupid they are for playing x y or z.... Now admittedly I don't have to comment here...but good grief misinformation is still misinformation regardless of what opinion .(yes opinion ) camp it comes from... [url="http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=uncle+bs&FORM=VIRE9#view=detail&mid=7FBE1788CE0D84BCB3167FBE1788CE0D84BCB316"]http://www.bing.com/...788CE0D84BCB316[/url] (uncle BS link)
some in these threads remind me of the Tim Wilson skit.."Uncle BS" this guy has a story for everything.... he knows all sees all and can tell you whats better for you !!
[/quote]

didnt read all of your post but way to make it personal, and i dont hate any iron without a depression in it..thats just a lie. as i;ve said over and over again, i agree with what the manufacturers have to say...that irons designed for very advanced ball strikers are best used by advanced ball strikers. why that brings forth the wrath of some posters really escapes me. i also dont care one bit that people play blades or whatever they play. when i came here after an 18 years absence from the game and looking for good info to get me current, i was given horrible advice, mostly by the blades enthusiasts...i;m just trying to dispel all the bad info parsed around here in a non personal way..dont believe what i say..fine with me, but all of the personalising insults are really uncalled for. so..have anything on topic to contribute?
[/quote]



whew.... sure I do.... OPs question was "how many if any strokes will you loose or gain if switching to GI" On that topic how many if any strokes would YOU ( self proclaimed good ball striker) loose if switching to a properly fitted MB? Now rememeber to take into account a good ball striker is making center face contact often....I cant wait to hear how your scores will rise with flush hit irons shots of any brand or design.... I simply think its a conundrum you cant explain.... Now im pleased as punch that you like your current irons..we all should..but being a good ballstriker you should have ZERO trouble playing a modern MB... what gives?
[/quote]

you really expect me to respond to something like that? but i will play a little.....i guess for the same reasons that 75% or more of the touring pros dont play a modern well fitted MB.....maybe why Spieth hacks it around with those ap2's of his for just one example...and why, by his own admission, he said he hit that PW very thin w. his ap2's and got lucky on the 18th hole of that one tourney to win...and no, i am not comparing myself to a pro..congrats on yet another contentious personalizing post. nice work on the 'self proclaimed' comment....if you read and understood and didnt wish to twist about to insult what i said, you would have comprehended what it means when i said i am 'considered a good ball striker'..that means that other people think that is so

[isaacbm]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1440461181' post='12201952']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1440460286' post='12201864']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1440454345' post='12201304']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440437131' post='12199504']
<paste>
[color=#282828]You'd be able to hit your highest shots higher if you played GMax but your lowest shots would be lower with MP4s. Every design has its limitations and the human operator should be cognizant of what those limitations are and how they interact with his tendencies if he's going to find what works best for himself. [/color]
[color=#282828]<end paste>[/color]

[color=#282828]exactly...good one DF. It really isnt complicated. there are tradeoffs[/color]

[color=#282828]personally I think the [b]POTENTIAL for 3-6 feet better dispersion with blades but ONLY on a perfectly struck shot isnt worth giving up consistently solid on target ball contact[/b] which lead to consistently better scoring. not to mention those days when you arent hittin' it that great (i do realize that some wrx'ers evidently dont seem to have off ball striking days).....[/color]
[/quote]

Thank you.

The blade guys like to stick with how much tighter the dispersion is and how much more "consistent" the distance (direction ?) is with a well struck blade vs. a well struck CB.

Meanwhile, every golfer should ask themselves this - How often are [u][b]TOUR players[/b][/u] exactly pin high or within 3 yards left or right of the pin even with sand wedges into the green.

Answer - not all that often.

So what chance do double digit HCers,,,,,,, or even single digit HCers,,,,,,, have of hitting ANY club within 10 feet or so on ANY given (full) shot ? Allowing for wind ? Allowing for the firmness of the green and the tilt ? Correct the first time. Not much.

So "precision" ? "Consistency" ? For guys who are NEITHER ? When the Pros can't do it consistently. Give me a break.
[/quote]

Granted I'm a plus handicap golfer but I would say that I hit it between 3-4 yards long or short of my target approximately 12-13 times per round. This is the single biggest thing that separates below scratch golfers from high single handicap golfers. Tour pros do it all of the time. It's just that a lot of the time their "target" is not actually the pin.

I'm almost never a full club short and when I play with my high single cap buddies or high teen handicap buddies, they are hardly ever pin high and almost all of their shots are short.

I'm surprised that anyone would make an argument that pros don't hit the ball their intended distance very often....


It's a lot harder on really firm fast greens but when the course soft and easy, they pepper their target distance on almost every shot.
[/quote]

I'm going by what I see.

And I'll grant you their target distance isn't always the flag but their ultimate target is.

And keep in mind we're only seeing the BEST of that tournament. The others are almost certainly worse; that weekend anyway. And the best still aren't [u]ending up[/u] pin high 50% of the time. And these guys are the best in the world.

I will grant you, as a +3 do and probably should have, exceptional distance control but no CB guys are ever going to suggest that YOU play CBs.

But keep in mind that the CB guys aren't talking about exceptionally skilled players. Most of the time when this sort of discussion comes up it's a 10+ handicapper asking if they should play blades.

And the CB guys, pretty much to a man I might add, besides [u]suggesting[/u] these guys should be playing CBs, ALSO say that anyone should play [u]anything[/u] they want for [u]whatever reasons[/u] they want.
[/quote]

My point has nothing to do with blades or not blades. it is that using tour pros to compare to the average players game is not apples to apples because they play different course setups then the average player. If you watch a tour player on the range, their distance control inside of 175 yards is pretty much plus/minus 3-4 yards and closer to 2-3yards with a sand wedge and I'm talking about shot after shot after shot. Its because they hit the middle again and again.

Take a tour player to a regular semi private club with soft conditions and their distance control will blow you mind, especially with no wind. The single biggest noticeable difference as a players handicap improves in 5 shot increments is distance control with all shots.


I think the whole blade vs cb argument is pretty tired. I was simply refuting the point that basically said that even the best guys on tour aren't very good at controlling distance.
That's simply incorrect.

[LaggingBehind]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440473302' post='12203264']


all of those things are said around here. and no i am not surprised that someone made things personal in an insulting way. thats what some desperate people do when they have nothing of substance and on topic to counter with...and i think that is sad. way to make it personal
[/quote]
No point in adding anything to a topic that has been beaten to death, especially when someone as close minded and ignorant as yourself is involved. Its not possible in your little world that people can have different perspectives or experiences than yourself, meaning both sides of the argument are actually correct. The bad info you received may be good info for someone else. Yet, rather than allowing yourself to be open you shun everything that contrasts to your ideals, leaving yourself with little to learn and teaching nothing along the way.

Sure I've lost some respect for myself for dropping down to your level, but enough is enough. I'm tired of reading through these threads that all come to the same conclusion. The point isn't even about blades vs GI anymore, its about considering you might be wrong at times.

And yes, I did feel personally insulted with your snarky comments about blades helping you focus better. You just can't fathom that some people actually focus better when given a task of perceived greater difficulty.

[wmblake2000]

To tell the truth, I have played with every style. When I am in a groove, doesn't seem to matter much what I play. Same for when I am in a rut. I am reintroducing a cb set to the blade set I have been playing. I expect to hit the same number of greens.

Actually, now that I think about it....I chip and pitch with 8-9-w. This is where the head design matters most. I like smaller head, narrower sole for this.

[Wknd_Warrior]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440473302' post='12203264']
way to make it personal
[/quote]

oh give us a break

[bladehunter]

T again really do not wish to convert a single soul.... I may joke but I don't think I have ever seriously given someone anything more that "heres what I have seen in my trials and errors" I guess I assume (yes I know a mistake) that most have common sense and are able to know whats best for them...

and one of these days im going to start my "what the pros play" list to dispel that urban myth that 75% of tour pros play a GI iron.... I just cant go along with you on that one at all.... Plenty of Mbs out there.. I mean a lot... that's not to say any of us should be playing them for that reason...but it is also to say that we shouldn't not play them because of the idea that "not even the best play an MB".... you have to remember a lot of guys like Ells etc who advertise for GI irons don't play them ....you have to look at their actual bag..not the ads on TV ....anyway im out....bed time on right side of the world

[Wknd_Warrior]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440475708' post='12203458']
[quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1440474146' post='12203330']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440424646' post='12198244']
[quote name='BMC' timestamp='1440380342' post='12196334']
Blades and GI both have pluses and minuses. I rarely have to an iron above a 6.
To me, blades are a surgical instrument. If I want to hit a low 7 iron 130 yards right at the pin on a soft green, I feel I can do that with a blade, but not with a GI iron.
[/quote]

problem is that most of the so called advantages of blades are glorified, mystical, mythical, and contrived or just perceived reality which most usually does not match real world reality.

it's been proven that the advantage of playing blades is for the POSSIBLE 3 feet better dispersion from 160 yards side to side and the POSSIBLE 6 feet better dispersion front to back BUT ONLY on a perfect strike which is exceedingly rare for almost all golfers.

everything else is BIG advantage GI, other than ball flight which is a wash and workability which is a wash assuming the blade is struck as well as the GI iron (which is unlikely)..if not perfectly struck, then once again, big advantage GI

i think that irons that are easier to flush hit are easier to flush hit and that it is better to flush hit than miss hit. i also dont claim to be smarter than the manufacturers who think that irons designed for very advanced ball strikers are best used by advanced ball strikers. but realize that some wrxers /think they are/ smarter than manufacturers and industry experts.

have a nice day
[/quote]



skimming this thread as it is just more of the same old same old...but it only took a quick glance to find personal jabs as early as page 2.... so please don't cry "fowl" when the barb is returned in kind.... after all passive aggression still has the word aggression in it.... we get it ..you hate any iron without a depression in the back...the whole discussion is so tired, and dare I say it..RETARDED! literally..not in a handicapped slang way, in a way that it is really causing a retardation in the actual discussion in any iron thread on here... There really cant be a thread started without someone telling someone else how stupid they are for playing x y or z.... Now admittedly I don't have to comment here...but good grief misinformation is still misinformation regardless of what opinion .(yes opinion ) camp it comes from... [url="http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=uncle+bs&FORM=VIRE9#view=detail&mid=7FBE1788CE0D84BCB3167FBE1788CE0D84BCB316"]http://www.bing.com/...788CE0D84BCB316[/url] (uncle BS link)
some in these threads remind me of the Tim Wilson skit.."Uncle BS" this guy has a story for everything.... he knows all sees all and can tell you whats better for you !!
[/quote]

didnt read all of your post but way to make it personal, and i dont hate any iron without a depression in it..thats just a lie. as i;ve said over and over again, i agree with what the manufacturers have to say...that irons designed for very advanced ball strikers are best used by advanced ball strikers. why that brings forth the wrath of some posters really escapes me. i also dont care one bit that people play blades or whatever they play. when i came here after an 18 years absence from the game and looking for good info to get me current, i was given horrible advice, mostly by the blades enthusiasts...i;m just trying to dispel all the bad info parsed around here in a non personal way..dont believe what i say..fine with me, but all of the personalising insults are really uncalled for. so..have anything on topic to contribute?
[/quote]

you can't really be serious...

Just so you know, this isn't how you come off at all, at least not to me. Your posts reek of baggage, condescendence, dogma and the usual flame warrior tactics and fallacies. I really can't believe you are playing "I'm just trying to help" card.

[SpartanDog]

i am a high handicapper, and i recently found a set of older blades (mizuno mp-32), and decided to pull the trigger. I've had them in the bag for a few rounds now and I feel myself getting better. I'm very inconsistent to begin with but I like how they look at address and when I hit the ball correctly they blow my GI irons out of the water (callaway x-22).

i like the thin look and soft feel, and I believe that if i finish this season playing them and hit them at the range over the winter I will be able to significantly lower my handicap

[Nard_S]

Over the last 35-40 years, an era where cavity backs have been prevalent on tour, how many majors have been won with them and how many have been won with "blades"? It's really not even close. Does that mean one will attain "golf summer slam" infamy by playing a traditional profile? No. But kept in perspective the game will be more rewarding and more fun. I've recently switched to 3 piece wound balls. Scores are the same, but the game is harder. Same can be said of "blades".

[gopherguts]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1440476953' post='12203512']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1440461181' post='12201952']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1440460286' post='12201864']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1440454345' post='12201304']

Thank you.

The blade guys like to stick with how much tighter the dispersion is and how much more "consistent" the distance (direction ?) is with a well struck blade vs. a well struck CB.

Meanwhile, every golfer should ask themselves this - How often are [u][b]TOUR players[/b][/u] exactly pin high or within 3 yards left or right of the pin even with sand wedges into the green.

Answer - not all that often.

So what chance do double digit HCers,,,,,,, or even single digit HCers,,,,,,, have of hitting ANY club within 10 feet or so on ANY given (full) shot ? Allowing for wind ? Allowing for the firmness of the green and the tilt ? Correct the first time. Not much.

So "precision" ? "Consistency" ? For guys who are NEITHER ? When the Pros can't do it consistently. Give me a break.
[/quote]

Granted I'm a plus handicap golfer but I would say that I hit it between 3-4 yards long or short of my target approximately 12-13 times per round. This is the single biggest thing that separates below scratch golfers from high single handicap golfers. Tour pros do it all of the time. It's just that a lot of the time their "target" is not actually the pin.

I'm almost never a full club short and when I play with my high single cap buddies or high teen handicap buddies, they are hardly ever pin high and almost all of their shots are short.

I'm surprised that anyone would make an argument that pros don't hit the ball their intended distance very often....


It's a lot harder on really firm fast greens but when the course soft and easy, they pepper their target distance on almost every shot.
[/quote]

I'm going by what I see.

And I'll grant you their target distance isn't always the flag but their ultimate target is.

And keep in mind we're only seeing the BEST of that tournament. The others are almost certainly worse; that weekend anyway. And the best still aren't [u]ending up[/u] pin high 50% of the time. And these guys are the best in the world.

I will grant you, as a +3 do and probably should have, exceptional distance control but no CB guys are ever going to suggest that YOU play CBs.

But keep in mind that the CB guys aren't talking about exceptionally skilled players. Most of the time when this sort of discussion comes up it's a 10+ handicapper asking if they should play blades.

And the CB guys, pretty much to a man I might add, besides [u]suggesting[/u] these guys should be playing CBs, ALSO say that anyone should play [u]anything[/u] they want for [u]whatever reasons[/u] they want.
[/quote]

My point has nothing to do with blades or not blades. it is that using tour pros to compare to the average players game is not apples to apples because they play different course setups then the average player. If you watch a tour player on the range, their distance control inside of 175 yards is pretty much plus/minus 3-4 yards and closer to 2-3yards with a sand wedge and I'm talking about shot after shot after shot. Its because they hit the middle again and again.

Take a tour player to a regular semi private club with soft conditions and their distance control will blow you mind, especially with no wind. The single biggest noticeable difference as a players handicap improves in 5 shot increments is distance control with all shots.


I think the whole blade vs cb argument is pretty tired. I was simply refuting the point that basically said that even the best guys on tour aren't very good at controlling distance.
That's simply incorrect.
[/quote]

And my point DID have to do with blades or not.

And I'm not talking about Pros [u]at the driving range[/u]. I'm talking about all the shots we all see on TV. They do not get the distance right +/- 3 yards half the time, even with say 8-SW.

And NOBODY, least of all me, is saying "even the best guys on tour aren't very good at controlling distance".

I said that the pros don't get their shots within 3 yards of the pin (in any direction) that often - i.e. so what chance do the rest of us have ? The figure 3 yards was brought out by performance testing (Titleist I believe) that claims blades are more consistent/accurate by about 3 yards.

Being that "we" (not necessarily you) are so much more inconsistent than the pros, the 3 yards "better" the blades presumably are is not enough of a reason to play them. The forgiveness aspect of the CB/GI is FAR more important FOR THE REST OF US than the "accuracy/consistency" of the blade.

That is why I'm suggesting that the REST OF US, being nowhere near as consistent as the Pros, should not be playing the most/more difficult to hit irons.

Simple(?) as that.

[TaylormadeNikes]

I don't believe a player should pick players clubs or GIs based on skill even though it does have some impact it's not the only factor to consider. The SGIs are primarily designed for the first timers or the guy that plays a handful in a year. The GIs are for the monthly, players clubs for the weekly and the blades will be for the 3 or more times a week. This is what people should look at instead of "Am I good enough?".
I currently game the vapor pros and have rocketbladez tour (wish I would have known about the n head version) as a second set. You can call me crazy but the bigger the club the harder for me to make my normal swing. The players cavity is probably what most golfers should play and are the clubs I should have purchased, but most are expensive even older models.
I can only give advice and it could be good or bad depending on who receives it. That may not make much sense because it's not supposed to. Some people can play blades better and others SGIs better, then you got the inbetweens. I think it's best if everyone tries all the types and sees which ones they like best and STICK WITH IT.