Question for Blade Players

[T.Beau]

[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1440373320' post='12195670']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440302420' post='12192184']
[quote name='Oldplayer' timestamp='1440284310' post='12190844']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1440278825' post='12190308']
The entire "forgiveness" thing is way overblown.
[/quote]
Agree. In addition to that lower scores are more about the driver and short game than about forgiving iron sets in my experience.
[/quote]

i think lower scores are about doing everything better. funny how ya become a better putter when you;re hitting your irons closer to the hole for example as your scores improve
[/quote]
I agree. Nothing like closer putts than tighter dispersion and more importantly distance control. I have been a marvel for my average score at iron distance control, granted, my accuracy leaves a lot to be desired, but my distance control has been nice. Makes putts that much closer. Really being pin high most of the time has only helped me to make my life best scoring goals with blades this summer. Someone on the range today asked me if I had a laser, I do but didn't have one. I switched clubs to a 9 and hit a flush shot, then told him quite accurately what the 150 likely was based off it. I couldn't do this with such confidence without having many rounds with my current blade set and a rangefinder to just know what shots are. You don't need to be a pro to have consistent distance, just a repeatable swing and a repeatable iron.
[/quote]

quite often being pin high is a really bad place to be even for those who are using blades

[golfortennis]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440428603' post='12198626']
[quote name='Volcanicstrad37' timestamp='1440426710' post='12198420']
Honest question for those who are adamantly opposed to blades. If you are a high spin, high ball flight players with a strong ss, what non blade iron can you play that will allow low ball flight shots to get out of trouble? One reason I play blades is for those shots, I can take my brothers ping G series iron and not hit a low hook out of trouble, it goes too high.
[/quote]

i;m not adamantly opposed to blades, but suggest that most any iron is capable of hitting that sort of shot. it typically requires a more severe adjustment and takes some practice with irons which are unfamiliar. to balance this out there is an advantage to the g series iron over a blade when you wish to flight the ball very high (over trees and pin tucked close to a bunker) the g series do tend to flight the ball higher in a stock shot for sure. thats how they are designed
[/quote]

Agree to disagree. I have a set of 690 CBs that I had brought back out a couple seasons ago, because the blades I had didn't conform to the groove rule. The ball went high and straight, sure, but the control was just not there. Could go long, could be short, but it was real difficult to do anything beyond that. Put the blades in my hand and the ball is on a string. I can curve it easier, I can hit it to the distance I want to hit it. Sample size of n=1, sure, but I'm reading similar stories in this thread.

Sorry, but for someone with a modicum of ability, the options blades give you vs the potential downside is a much better deal, IMHO, than the "protection" you get from CBs when you factor in the loss of flexibility.

And I can throw a ball way up in the air with my blades as well if I need to.

[golfortennis]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440430233' post='12198778']
[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1440373320' post='12195670']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440302420' post='12192184']
[quote name='Oldplayer' timestamp='1440284310' post='12190844']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1440278825' post='12190308']
The entire "forgiveness" thing is way overblown.
[/quote]
Agree. In addition to that lower scores are more about the driver and short game than about forgiving iron sets in my experience.
[/quote]

i think lower scores are about doing everything better. funny how ya become a better putter when you;re hitting your irons closer to the hole for example as your scores improve
[/quote]
I agree. Nothing like closer putts than tighter dispersion and more importantly distance control. I have been a marvel for my average score at iron distance control, granted, my accuracy leaves a lot to be desired, but my distance control has been nice. Makes putts that much closer. Really being pin high most of the time has only helped me to make my life best scoring goals with blades this summer. Someone on the range today asked me if I had a laser, I do but didn't have one. I switched clubs to a 9 and hit a flush shot, then told him quite accurately what the 150 likely was based off it. I couldn't do this with such confidence without having many rounds with my current blade set and a rangefinder to just know what shots are. You don't need to be a pro to have consistent distance, just a repeatable swing and a repeatable iron.
[/quote]

quite often being pin high is a really bad place to be even for those who are using blades
[/quote]

Say what?

[T.Beau]

[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1440430797' post='12198840']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440428603' post='12198626']
[quote name='Volcanicstrad37' timestamp='1440426710' post='12198420']
Honest question for those who are adamantly opposed to blades. If you are a high spin, high ball flight players with a strong ss, what non blade iron can you play that will allow low ball flight shots to get out of trouble? One reason I play blades is for those shots, I can take my brothers ping G series iron and not hit a low hook out of trouble, it goes too high.
[/quote]

i;m not adamantly opposed to blades, but suggest that most any iron is capable of hitting that sort of shot. it typically requires a more severe adjustment and takes some practice with irons which are unfamiliar. to balance this out there is an advantage to the g series iron over a blade when you wish to flight the ball very high (over trees and pin tucked close to a bunker) the g series do tend to flight the ball higher in a stock shot for sure. thats how they are designed
[/quote]

Agree to disagree. I have a set of 690 CBs that I had brought back out a couple seasons ago, because the blades I had didn't conform to the groove rule. The ball went high and straight, sure, but the control was just not there. Could go long, could be short, but it was real difficult to do anything beyond that. Put the blades in my hand and the ball is on a string. I can curve it easier, I can hit it to the distance I want to hit it. Sample size of n=1, sure, but I'm reading similar stories in this thread.

Sorry, but for someone with a modicum of ability, the options blades give you vs the potential downside is a much better deal, IMHO, than the "protection" you get from CBs when you factor in the loss of flexibility.

And I can throw a ball way up in the air with my blades as well if I need to.
[/quote]

yes some of the blades hit the ball very high which also dispels the theory of how blades are so much better for those who need to flight the ball down

[golfortennis]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440431173' post='12198898']
[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1440430797' post='12198840']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440428603' post='12198626']
[quote name='Volcanicstrad37' timestamp='1440426710' post='12198420']
Honest question for those who are adamantly opposed to blades. If you are a high spin, high ball flight players with a strong ss, what non blade iron can you play that will allow low ball flight shots to get out of trouble? One reason I play blades is for those shots, I can take my brothers ping G series iron and not hit a low hook out of trouble, it goes too high.
[/quote]

i;m not adamantly opposed to blades, but suggest that most any iron is capable of hitting that sort of shot. it typically requires a more severe adjustment and takes some practice with irons which are unfamiliar. to balance this out there is an advantage to the g series iron over a blade when you wish to flight the ball very high (over trees and pin tucked close to a bunker) the g series do tend to flight the ball higher in a stock shot for sure. thats how they are designed
[/quote]

Agree to disagree. I have a set of 690 CBs that I had brought back out a couple seasons ago, because the blades I had didn't conform to the groove rule. The ball went high and straight, sure, but the control was just not there. Could go long, could be short, but it was real difficult to do anything beyond that. Put the blades in my hand and the ball is on a string. I can curve it easier, I can hit it to the distance I want to hit it. Sample size of n=1, sure, but I'm reading similar stories in this thread.

Sorry, but for someone with a modicum of ability, the options blades give you vs the potential downside is a much better deal, IMHO, than the "protection" you get from CBs when you factor in the loss of flexibility.

And I can throw a ball way up in the air with my blades as well if I need to.
[/quote]

yes some of the blades hit the ball very high which also dispels the theory of how blades are so much better for those who need to flight the ball down
[/quote]

Are you purposely obtuse? I can hit the ball high with a blade, I can hit it low. It's called flexibility that the blades gives you. You seem to have this notion that it is all club design. And some are designed a certain way. Blades tend not to be. Blades allow the player to do what they want to do.

[dog flog]

Here's how it works for me: I can hit a bladed 8 iron on down well enough to scratch it around but anything lower than that and I start to suck much more. If folks would sell off their old 8 to GW blade iron sets, I could see how it might not hurt me much trying out living the blada loca in the just bottom of my kit but the longer clubs would retain the high launch theme. Because they go much lower than my SGIs, blades give me a noticeably diminishing distance return on the longer irons. When you combine this with the fact that blade heads get smaller as they get longer and it's not surprising to me why I don't like middle or long irons in blades.

[MaxBuck]

[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1440430797' post='12198840']

... for someone with [color=#ff0000][s]a modicum of[/s][/color] [color=#ff0000][u]more [/u][/color]ability[color=#ff0000][u] than MaxBuck has[/u][/color], the options blades give you vs the potential downside is a much better deal, IMHO, than the "protection" you get from CBs when you factor in the loss of flexibility.
[/quote]

FTFY

[dog flog]

[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1440432176' post='12198990']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440431173' post='12198898']
[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1440430797' post='12198840']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440428603' post='12198626']
[quote name='Volcanicstrad37' timestamp='1440426710' post='12198420']
Honest question for those who are adamantly opposed to blades. If you are a high spin, high ball flight players with a strong ss, what non blade iron can you play that will allow low ball flight shots to get out of trouble? One reason I play blades is for those shots, I can take my brothers ping G series iron and not hit a low hook out of trouble, it goes too high.
[/quote]

i;m not adamantly opposed to blades, but suggest that most any iron is capable of hitting that sort of shot. it typically requires a more severe adjustment and takes some practice with irons which are unfamiliar. to balance this out there is an advantage to the g series iron over a blade when you wish to flight the ball very high (over trees and pin tucked close to a bunker) the g series do tend to flight the ball higher in a stock shot for sure. thats how they are designed
[/quote]

Agree to disagree. I have a set of 690 CBs that I had brought back out a couple seasons ago, because the blades I had didn't conform to the groove rule. The ball went high and straight, sure, but the control was just not there. Could go long, could be short, but it was real difficult to do anything beyond that. Put the blades in my hand and the ball is on a string. I can curve it easier, I can hit it to the distance I want to hit it. Sample size of n=1, sure, but I'm reading similar stories in this thread.

Sorry, but for someone with a modicum of ability, the options blades give you vs the potential downside is a much better deal, IMHO, than the "protection" you get from CBs when you factor in the loss of flexibility.

And I can throw a ball way up in the air with my blades as well if I need to.
[/quote]

yes some of the blades hit the ball very high which also dispels the theory of how blades are so much better for those who need to flight the ball down
[/quote]

Are you purposely obtuse? I can hit the ball high with a blade, I can hit it low. It's called flexibility that the blades gives you. You seem to have this notion that it is all club design. And some are designed a certain way. Blades tend not to be. Blades allow the player to do what they want to do.
[/quote]You'd be able to hit your highest shots higher if you played GMax but your lowest shots would be lower with MP4s. Every design has its limitations and the human operator should be cognizant of what those limitations are and how they interact with his tendencies if he's going to find what works best for himself.

[golfortennis]

[quote name='dog flog' timestamp='1440434338' post='12199224']
[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1440432176' post='12198990']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440431173' post='12198898']
[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1440430797' post='12198840']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440428603' post='12198626']

i;m not adamantly opposed to blades, but suggest that most any iron is capable of hitting that sort of shot. it typically requires a more severe adjustment and takes some practice with irons which are unfamiliar. to balance this out there is an advantage to the g series iron over a blade when you wish to flight the ball very high (over trees and pin tucked close to a bunker) the g series do tend to flight the ball higher in a stock shot for sure. thats how they are designed
[/quote]

Agree to disagree. I have a set of 690 CBs that I had brought back out a couple seasons ago, because the blades I had didn't conform to the groove rule. The ball went high and straight, sure, but the control was just not there. Could go long, could be short, but it was real difficult to do anything beyond that. Put the blades in my hand and the ball is on a string. I can curve it easier, I can hit it to the distance I want to hit it. Sample size of n=1, sure, but I'm reading similar stories in this thread.

Sorry, but for someone with a modicum of ability, the options blades give you vs the potential downside is a much better deal, IMHO, than the "protection" you get from CBs when you factor in the loss of flexibility.

And I can throw a ball way up in the air with my blades as well if I need to.
[/quote]

yes some of the blades hit the ball very high which also dispels the theory of how blades are so much better for those who need to flight the ball down
[/quote]

Are you purposely obtuse? I can hit the ball high with a blade, I can hit it low. It's called flexibility that the blades gives you. You seem to have this notion that it is all club design. And some are designed a certain way. Blades tend not to be. Blades allow the player to do what they want to do.
[/quote]You'd be able to hit your highest shots higher if you played GMax but your lowest shots would be lower with MP4s. Every design has its limitations and the human operator should be cognizant of what those limitations are and how they interact with his tendencies if he's going to find what works best for himself.
[/quote]

Absolutely, but the point I was making was that I hit a high shot that gets high enough to do what I want with the blade. Can you hit a low enough shot with a CB? In a lot of cases, no you can't. I was never saying you can do absolutely everything with a particular club, just that the more a club is "designed" to "help" with something, the fewer options you have.

And as a complete aside, I think far too many people fall into the "I can't hit a blade" mentality erroneously. Most people can hit them, but alas it's as much a mental game....

[T.Beau]

<paste>
[color=#282828]You'd be able to hit your highest shots higher if you played GMax but your lowest shots would be lower with MP4s. Every design has its limitations and the human operator should be cognizant of what those limitations are and how they interact with his tendencies if he's going to find what works best for himself. [/color]
[color=#282828]<end paste>[/color]

[color=#282828]exactly...good one DF. It really isnt complicated. there are tradeoffs[/color]

[color=#282828]personally I think the POTENTIAL for 3-6 feet better dispersion with blades but ONLY on a perfectly struck shot isnt worth giving up consistently solid on target ball contact which lead to consistently better scoring. not to mention those days when you arent hittin' it that great (i do realize that some wrx'ers evidently dont seem to have off ball striking days).....[/color]

[Bigmean]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440430233' post='12198778']
[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1440373320' post='12195670']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440302420' post='12192184']
[quote name='Oldplayer' timestamp='1440284310' post='12190844']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1440278825' post='12190308']
The entire "forgiveness" thing is way overblown.
[/quote]
Agree. In addition to that lower scores are more about the driver and short game than about forgiving iron sets in my experience.
[/quote]

i think lower scores are about doing everything better. funny how ya become a better putter when you;re hitting your irons closer to the hole for example as your scores improve
[/quote]
I agree. Nothing like closer putts than tighter dispersion and more importantly distance control. I have been a marvel for my average score at iron distance control, granted, my accuracy leaves a lot to be desired, but my distance control has been nice. Makes putts that much closer. Really being pin high most of the time has only helped me to make my life best scoring goals with blades this summer. Someone on the range today asked me if I had a laser, I do but didn't have one. I switched clubs to a 9 and hit a flush shot, then told him quite accurately what the 150 likely was based off it. I couldn't do this with such confidence without having many rounds with my current blade set and a rangefinder to just know what shots are. You don't need to be a pro to have consistent distance, just a repeatable swing and a repeatable iron.
[/quote]

quite often being pin high is a really bad place to be even for those who are using blades
[/quote]

As much as I would love to ask you to explain what has to be the most inexplicable comment ever made on here, as much as I would love to point out how comically hypocritical this comment is with your history of novels of writing on distance loss on mishits (like, not going where they should distance wise) being a huge disadvantage to playing blades, I think that instead we all need to appreciate this as it is.

"Quite often being pin high is a really bad place to be".

Now I don't think anyone wants to read any back peddling with stuff like "pin high may be above the hole and harder put" or whatever nonsense that is not mentioned that would make pin high bad....this statement is it. This is a statement that says "I am going to argue, no matter how ridiculous. I stopped talking about the subject matter a long time ago, I just come here to refute literally ANYTHING as my goal is simply to argue."

I think this is my new favorite post ever on this subject. It says so, so much, in so few words.

To specifically answer your response, I offer this:

Quite often when I play blades, the sky is blue.



Cheers! That was awesome, for real. Made my day

[T.Beau]

[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1440437219' post='12199514']
As much as I would love to ask you to explain what has to be the most inexplicable comment ever made on here, as much as I would love to point out how comically hypocritical this comment is with your history of novels of writing on distance loss on mishits (like, not going where they should distance wise) being a huge disadvantage to playing blades, I think that instead we all need to appreciate this as it is.

"Quite often being pin high is a really bad place to be".

Now I don't think anyone wants to read any back peddling with stuff like "pin high may be above the hole and harder put" or whatever nonsense that is not mentioned that would make pin high bad....this statement is it. This is a statement that says "I am going to argue, no matter how ridiculous. I stopped talking about the subject matter a long time ago, I just come here to refute literally ANYTHING as my goal is simply to argue."

I think this is my new favorite post ever on this subject. It says so, so much, in so few words.

To specifically answer your response, I offer this:

Quite often when I play blades, the sky is blue.



Cheers! That was awesome, for real. Made my day
[/quote]

so you insult me (again) and expect me to explain something that many good golfers (and likely all touring pros) know to be true...you;re special

[Wknd_Warrior]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1440389129' post='12197118']
[quote name='Wknd_Warrior' timestamp='1440266410' post='12189526']
I don't really know but I accept the distinct possibility that unless the GI clubs were really clumsy I'd probably shoot a couple strokes better over all, especially on bad days.
[/quote]

[attachment=2921568:diogenes.jpg]
[/quote]

don't make too much of that I only said "distinct possibility" lol. and you know I'm going to argue every post you make the rest of this thread...and if you keep posting like that you're going to cost me my online cred with the other blade guys!

I had a day today where I couldn't find the sweet spot with a lab full of particle physics equipment, oddly enough it didn't cost me, the only thing that did was dicing it out to the right half the time and I unfortunately kept getting my number instead of coming up short, which would have been preferable 99% of the time on the course I was playing. Heck, I even clunked a shot to about 6 feet on the first from 170 out.

I still have to agree with the general sentiment, if ya have more fun ya have more fun, but most of the guys I see on the course it won't make much difference what they play, I don't even think different irons will take 6 or 7 strokes off a high capper, but that was a funny post. I think once you get down close to single digits, depending how you play you can start to evolve a game that will take advantage of technology if that's how you play.

I did skank a 1i off the tee about 150 yards so you guys can all laugh. It probably would have rolled out over 2 bills but the groundhog hunter missed the fairway by a couple yards and the wet rough choked it up pretty good. Oddly enough it felt fine, just a bit heely with nothing on it, a little puzzling really.

[Exactice808]

Im going to say what I always say.... cause you know what I love saying it....


But this time I will say it like this.......

[u][i][b][size=8]WHY[/size][/b][/i][/u]

[size=5]Do, you think we would shoot any different from switching between X club from X club.....[/size]

[size=5]2 types of golfers....[/size]


[size=5]1) Good Golfer[/size]
[size=5]2) Bad Golfer[/size]


Lets be realistic for a moment,


If you suck... It dont matter what club you use right......Cause you cant hit the middle nor can you get the intended ball (path,trajectory, distance, and movement) you want, most of the shots are lucky and or go in the "General" Direction and But the rest of your game sucks along with your irons.... so Irons are not the only thing that can save your game....You forget that you still have to get off the tee box and since you are mediocre at best, and your GIR are not 18 out of 18... you are chipping or pitching somewhere around the green, then god knows how you putt......




If you are good..... It DONT matter what club you use..... If you are that good, you have a repeatable swing that can be put on a SGI, GI, CB or Blade. While trajectories will vary along with distances, you adjust and the ability to work the ball left or right negates ANY Benefits you get with a Blade OR the Benefits you get from a GI or SGI........


While yes there are merits to each design of club in addition there are merits to how a player plays the game.... but switching from one to the other without A REASON makes no sense.



Forgiveness is well over rated, (If you are a bad golfer, no measurable amount of forgiveness will make you better, and your putting and driver still probably suffers.) (If you are a good golfer, Forgiveness is a facet of the game... you may sacrifice a little forgiveness for more workability) OMG who does that right.... well a good golfer does that......

A blades difficulty to play is[u][i][b][size=6] WAY[/size][/b][/i][/u] over rated (If you Suck..... it wont matter....the only difference is you will feel a miss hit more with one than the other, but your ball will not get where you wanted it to go, Blades or GIs alike.)

(If you are good..... well its all about distances, consistency and movement, but at that point.... with all the tech blended, we can match lofts, shafts, and balls to get matching flights with a blade and a GI.


The benefits of a GI is over rated (Common if you suck you suck....... ADMIT IT, I KNOW I DID at that was the first step to getting better.....) Its like any mental health related issue, (Golf to me is 80% mental 20% physical), if you cant admit you have a problem (Alcoholics, Drug addicts etc....) you will never fix your problem. Whats the difference with Blades vs GI debates.


Blades have become an iconic tool to achieve as a chest thumping caveman to say my balls are bigger than yours. I did it I know it, I felt it, but I I gave it up because I saw no benefits. While I still play with them and enjoy them.... I see no drastic improvements with playing blades at this time....

So If you started off with blades your whole life..... from a 50 handicapper to scratch, then hell stick with them no reason to really change unless you need the specifics of a GI, Sole, width, launch,


If you have played with GI's there is no benefits to move to a blade unless you need the lower trajectory, and MAX workability...... which, 80% of the golfing world does not need.......


If you WANT TO PLAY BLADES JUST TO DO IT...... DO IT..... who cares what other think.... play it and enjoy it, its part of the growing pains of golf.........

but be realistic.... BLADES are not an Achievement you Unlock like on an XBOX.... that since you play them now you have conquered something.... its a tool to help you score the best possible score you can.... if it doesnt why force it......

[Oldplayer]

Great post Exactice.
Sometimes I struggle to get through long posts, especially in the blade/cb debate; but yours is excellent and read just like a stellar lesson in common sense.
Well done.

[Sean2]

Besides, no one gives a s**t what clubs you play.

[gopherguts]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440437131' post='12199504']
<paste>
[color=#282828]You'd be able to hit your highest shots higher if you played GMax but your lowest shots would be lower with MP4s. Every design has its limitations and the human operator should be cognizant of what those limitations are and how they interact with his tendencies if he's going to find what works best for himself. [/color]
[color=#282828]<end paste>[/color]

[color=#282828]exactly...good one DF. It really isnt complicated. there are tradeoffs[/color]

[color=#282828]personally I think the [b]POTENTIAL for 3-6 feet better dispersion with blades but ONLY on a perfectly struck shot isnt worth giving up consistently solid on target ball contact[/b] which lead to consistently better scoring. not to mention those days when you arent hittin' it that great (i do realize that some wrx'ers evidently dont seem to have off ball striking days).....[/color]
[/quote]

Thank you.

The blade guys like to stick with how much tighter the dispersion is and how much more "consistent" the distance (direction ?) is with a well struck blade vs. a well struck CB.

Meanwhile, every golfer should ask themselves this - How often are [u][b]TOUR players[/b][/u] exactly pin high or within 3 yards left or right of the pin even with sand wedges into the green.

Answer - not all that often.

So what chance do double digit HCers,,,,,,, or even single digit HCers,,,,,,, have of hitting ANY club within 10 feet or so on ANY given (full) shot ? Allowing for wind ? Allowing for the firmness of the green and the tilt ? Correct the first time. Not much.

So "precision" ? "Consistency" ? For guys who are NEITHER ? When the Pros can't do it consistently. Give me a break.

[gopherguts]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1440454261' post='12201282']
Besides, no one gives a s**t what clubs you play.
[/quote]

Hey... be nice.

And don't you know the rules prohibit using **** in place of letters for swear words ?


BTW, season's winding down about now in many parts of the country. How your season go with your CBs ???

OR ???

[Exactice808]

[quote name='Oldplayer' timestamp='1440454034' post='12201258']
Great post Exactice.
Sometimes I struggle to get through long posts, especially in the blade/cb debate; but yours is excellent and read just like a stellar lesson in common sense.
Well done.
[/quote]


Hheeheh After I finished typing I realized it was long and some will bypass it, but I did make the "WHY' big enough to entice people to read LOL!

Seriously though.... I have done the battle and I have given in, I still alternate between the 2, but again.... no determinable difference in score..... I just know it seems like I have to work a little harder with the blades now....

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1440454261' post='12201282']
Besides, no one gives a s**t what clubs you play.
[/quote]

Sean...... Some people do GIVE a @#$$%....Thats the sad part........ and those people can kiss my @$$ and go lick a donkey for all I care.....

But you know who cares the most though right....... The person swinging the club and that sucks cause they have all these self imposed feelings of what others "MAY" be thinking about them.....

so stupid right?...........


Screw them all and play what scores you the best..... 30 Handicapper with Blades or Scratch Golfer with SGIs.........

[Wknd_Warrior]

[quote]
The benefits of a GI is over rated (Common if you suck you suck....... ADMIT IT, I KNOW I DID at that was the first step to getting better.....) Its like any mental health related issue, (Golf to me is 80% mental 20% physical), if you cant admit you have a problem (Alcoholics, Drug addicts etc....) you will never fix your problem. Whats the difference with Blades vs GI debates.
[/quote]

ya, I consider technology to be 90% a distracting obsession the golf companies are glad we have. A big part of me thinks it's simply the wrong solution anyhow, but that's the stubborn blade player in me talking, even so I think there is a point there.

A bit of forgiveness in the longer irons wouldn't be the end of the world, but do it in a way that doesn't compromise club design please. I think we are going to see more progressive sets in the future that will adjust trajectory and forgiveness across the whole range. Regardless of personal preference I think there is something to be said for the simpler design all else being equal.

[gopherguts]

[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1440436345' post='12199436']
[quote name='dog flog' timestamp='1440434338' post='12199224']
[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1440432176' post='12198990']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440431173' post='12198898']
[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1440430797' post='12198840']

Agree to disagree. I have a set of 690 CBs that I had brought back out a couple seasons ago, because the blades I had didn't conform to the groove rule. The ball went high and straight, sure, but the control was just not there. Could go long, could be short, but it was real difficult to do anything beyond that. Put the blades in my hand and the ball is on a string. I can curve it easier, I can hit it to the distance I want to hit it. Sample size of n=1, sure, but I'm reading similar stories in this thread.

Sorry, but for someone with a modicum of ability, the options blades give you vs the potential downside is a much better deal, IMHO, than the "protection" you get from CBs when you factor in the loss of flexibility.

And I can throw a ball way up in the air with my blades as well if I need to.
[/quote]

yes some of the blades hit the ball very high which also dispels the theory of how blades are so much better for those who need to flight the ball down
[/quote]

Are you purposely obtuse? I can hit the ball high with a blade, I can hit it low. It's called flexibility that the blades gives you. You seem to have this notion that it is all club design. And some are designed a certain way. Blades tend not to be. Blades allow the player to do what they want to do.
[/quote]You'd be able to hit your highest shots higher if you played GMax but your lowest shots would be lower with MP4s. Every design has its limitations and the human operator should be cognizant of what those limitations are and how they interact with his tendencies if he's going to find what works best for himself.
[/quote]

Absolutely, but the point I was making was that I hit a high shot that gets high enough to do what I want with the blade. Can you hit a low enough shot with a CB? In a lot of cases, no you can't. I was never saying you can do absolutely everything with a particular club, just that the more a club is "designed" to "help" with something, the fewer options you have.
[/quote]

Besides your disagreeable use of "obtuse",,,,,,,,,,

I would tend to agree with you BUT,,,,,,,,,

Let me ask you something then - seriously.

CBs, or more accurately in this case GIs, are weighted towards the sole so the weight is below the equator of the ball and that in turn will hit a higher shot than, as in your blade where the weight is more evenly distributed in order to hit a "lower" shot, one otherwise would.

That is your argument, yes ?

So what is it about the blade that allows you to hit it [u]higher than normal,[/u] effectively "defeating" the basic design to hit a lower, more boring shot ? And why then can the GI user NOT hit a GI [u]lower than normal,[/u] effectively defeating [u]its[/u] design ??

[Exactice808]

[quote name='Wknd_Warrior' timestamp='1440454689' post='12201330']
[quote]
The benefits of a GI is over rated (Common if you suck you suck....... ADMIT IT, I KNOW I DID at that was the first step to getting better.....) Its like any mental health related issue, (Golf to me is 80% mental 20% physical), if you cant admit you have a problem (Alcoholics, Drug addicts etc....) you will never fix your problem. Whats the difference with Blades vs GI debates.
[/quote]

ya, I consider technology to be 90% a distracting obsession the golf companies are glad we have. A big part of me thinks it's simply the wrong solution anyhow, but that's the stubborn blade player in me talking, even so I think there is a point there.

A bit of forgiveness in the longer irons wouldn't be the end of the world, but do it in a way that doesn't compromise club design please. I think we are going to see more progressive sets in the future that will adjust trajectory and forgiveness across the whole range. Regardless of personal preference I think there is something to be said for the simpler design all else being equal.
[/quote]


Dont get me wrong........ I think TECH has blended the line, sorry my post seems like a contradiction here..... but with SO Many different options out there..... its hard to not find a club that fits you the best..... but it goes both ways.... Blades or GI's

You can now have Blades with Graphite shats that weigh 55grams..... You can now have X offset bent into the blades....

You can also have X100 or PX7.0 in SGI's with less offset and a sharper leading edge.


Blades being the so called Holy Grail of an Iron is starting to fade, and not because they are not as good as they were before, but with SO Much selection and design, its just that everything is else has started to "Catch Up" To the quality of a blade..... Thats it,


Isnt it odd how a blade has not really changed in 50 years (Just throwing out random numbers) But a GI has evolved to max SGI's to Players CB's...........

Its not the blade thats the problem its the ego.......and the addiction that one needs to fight.....

[gopherguts]

[quote name='Wknd_Warrior' timestamp='1440450794' post='12200952']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1440389129' post='12197118']
[quote name='Wknd_Warrior' timestamp='1440266410' post='12189526']
I don't really know but I accept the distinct possibility that unless the GI clubs were really clumsy I'd probably shoot a couple strokes better over all, especially on bad days.
[/quote]

[attachment=2921568:diogenes.jpg]
[/quote]

don't make too much of that I only said "distinct possibility" lol.
[/quote]

"Distinct possibility", in the context of CB vs. blades, is a HUGE "admission",,,,,,,,,

Next thing ya know the black cat will admit his "CB" & blades are pretty much the same club,,,,,,,

[Sean2]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1440454522' post='12201314']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1440454261' post='12201282']
Besides, no one gives a s**t what clubs you play.
[/quote]

Hey... be nice.

And don't you know the rules prohibit using **** in place of letters for swear words ?


BTW, season's winding down about now in many parts of the country. How your season go with your CBs ???

OR ???
[/quote]

I have had a great season, thank you for asking. :-)

And, please don't remind me the season is winding down. The last three winters have been terrible.

[Wknd_Warrior]

[quote]
Thank you.

The blade guys like to stick with how much tighter the dispersion is and how much more "consistent" the distance (direction ?) is with a well struck blade vs. a well struck CB.

Meanwhile, every golfer should ask themselves this - How often are [u][b]TOUR players[/b][/u] exactly pin high or within 3 yards left or right of the pin even with sand wedges into the green.

Answer - not all that often.

So what chance do double digit HCers,,,,,,, or even single digit HCers,,,,,,, have of hitting ANY club within 10 feet or so on ANY given (full) shot ? Allowing for wind ? Allowing for the firmness of the green and the tilt ? Correct the first time. Not much.

So "precision" ? "Consistency" ? For guys who are NEITHER ? When the Pros can't do it consistently. Give me a break.
[/quote]

oh good gawd, why even bother teeing it up?

[Sean2]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1440454679' post='12201326']
[quote name='Oldplayer' timestamp='1440454034' post='12201258']
Great post Exactice.
Sometimes I struggle to get through long posts, especially in the blade/cb debate; but yours is excellent and read just like a stellar lesson in common sense.
Well done.
[/quote]


Hheeheh After I finished typing I realized it was long and some will bypass it, but I did make the "WHY' big enough to entice people to read LOL!

Seriously though.... I have done the battle and I have given in, I still alternate between the 2, but again.... no determinable difference in score..... I just know it seems like I have to work a little harder with the blades now....

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1440454261' post='12201282']
Besides, no one gives a s**t what clubs you play.
[/quote]

Sean...... Some people do GIVE a @#$$%....Thats the sad part........ and those people can kiss my @$$ and go lick a donkey for all I care.....

[b]But you know who cares the most though right....... The person swinging the club and that sucks cause they have all these self imposed feelings of what others "MAY" be thinking about them.....

so stupid right?[/b]...........


Screw them all and play what scores you the best..... 30 Handicapper with Blades or Scratch Golfer with SGIs.........
[/quote]

That is a VERY good point. Some people MAY feel that self-imposed pressure.

And yes, play what will gives you the best score...because the scorecard couldn't care less what is in your bag either. :-)

[AMH58]

Bottom line, I think how it looks at address to you means the most. The minimal difference you'll get with GI irons aren't enough to make you go from a 15 to a 3. Pick what looks best and you can create the desired and optimal ball flight and spin with different shafts and bending the heads' lie angle and lofts.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1440454345' post='12201304']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440437131' post='12199504']
<paste>
[color=#282828]You'd be able to hit your highest shots higher if you played GMax but your lowest shots would be lower with MP4s. Every design has its limitations and the human operator should be cognizant of what those limitations are and how they interact with his tendencies if he's going to find what works best for himself. [/color]
[color=#282828]<end paste>[/color]

[color=#282828]exactly...good one DF. It really isnt complicated. there are tradeoffs[/color]

[color=#282828]personally I think the [b]POTENTIAL for 3-6 feet better dispersion with blades but ONLY on a perfectly struck shot isnt worth giving up consistently solid on target ball contact[/b] which lead to consistently better scoring. not to mention those days when you arent hittin' it that great (i do realize that some wrx'ers evidently dont seem to have off ball striking days).....[/color]
[/quote]

Thank you.

The blade guys like to stick with how much tighter the dispersion is and how much more "consistent" the distance (direction ?) is with a well struck blade vs. a well struck CB.

Meanwhile, every golfer should ask themselves this - How often are [u][b]TOUR players[/b][/u] exactly pin high or within 3 yards left or right of the pin even with sand wedges into the green.

Answer - not all that often.

So what chance do double digit HCers,,,,,,, or even single digit HCers,,,,,,, have of hitting ANY club within 10 feet or so on ANY given (full) shot ? Allowing for wind ? Allowing for the firmness of the green and the tilt ? Correct the first time. Not much.

So "precision" ? "Consistency" ? For guys who are NEITHER ? When the Pros can't do it consistently. Give me a break.
[/quote]

Granted I'm a plus handicap golfer but I would say that I hit it between 3-4 yards long or short of my target approximately 12-13 times per round. This is the single biggest thing that separates below scratch golfers from high single handicap golfers. Tour pros do it all of the time. It's just that a lot of the time their "target" is not actually the pin.

I'm almost never a full club short and when I play with my high single cap buddies or high teen handicap buddies, they are hardly ever pin high and almost all of their shots are short.

I'm surprised that anyone would make an argument that pros don't hit the ball their intended distance very often....


It's a lot harder on really firm fast greens but when the course soft and easy, they pepper their target distance on almost every shot.

[gopherguts]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1440460286' post='12201864']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1440454345' post='12201304']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440437131' post='12199504']
<paste>
[color=#282828]You'd be able to hit your highest shots higher if you played GMax but your lowest shots would be lower with MP4s. Every design has its limitations and the human operator should be cognizant of what those limitations are and how they interact with his tendencies if he's going to find what works best for himself. [/color]
[color=#282828]<end paste>[/color]

[color=#282828]exactly...good one DF. It really isnt complicated. there are tradeoffs[/color]

[color=#282828]personally I think the [b]POTENTIAL for 3-6 feet better dispersion with blades but ONLY on a perfectly struck shot isnt worth giving up consistently solid on target ball contact[/b] which lead to consistently better scoring. not to mention those days when you arent hittin' it that great (i do realize that some wrx'ers evidently dont seem to have off ball striking days).....[/color]
[/quote]

Thank you.

The blade guys like to stick with how much tighter the dispersion is and how much more "consistent" the distance (direction ?) is with a well struck blade vs. a well struck CB.

Meanwhile, every golfer should ask themselves this - How often are [u][b]TOUR players[/b][/u] exactly pin high or within 3 yards left or right of the pin even with sand wedges into the green.

Answer - not all that often.

So what chance do double digit HCers,,,,,,, or even single digit HCers,,,,,,, have of hitting ANY club within 10 feet or so on ANY given (full) shot ? Allowing for wind ? Allowing for the firmness of the green and the tilt ? Correct the first time. Not much.

So "precision" ? "Consistency" ? For guys who are NEITHER ? When the Pros can't do it consistently. Give me a break.
[/quote]

Granted I'm a plus handicap golfer but I would say that I hit it between 3-4 yards long or short of my target approximately 12-13 times per round. This is the single biggest thing that separates below scratch golfers from high single handicap golfers. Tour pros do it all of the time. It's just that a lot of the time their "target" is not actually the pin.

I'm almost never a full club short and when I play with my high single cap buddies or high teen handicap buddies, they are hardly ever pin high and almost all of their shots are short.

I'm surprised that anyone would make an argument that pros don't hit the ball their intended distance very often....


It's a lot harder on really firm fast greens but when the course soft and easy, they pepper their target distance on almost every shot.
[/quote]

I'm going by what I see.

And I'll grant you their target distance isn't always the flag but their ultimate target is.

And keep in mind we're only seeing the BEST of that tournament. The others are almost certainly worse; that weekend anyway. And the best still aren't [u]ending up[/u] pin high 50% of the time. And these guys are the best in the world.

I will grant you, as a +3 do and probably should have, exceptional distance control but no CB guys are ever going to suggest that YOU play CBs.

But keep in mind that the CB guys aren't talking about exceptionally skilled players. Most of the time when this sort of discussion comes up it's a 10+ handicapper asking if they should play blades.

And the CB guys, pretty much to a man I might add, besides [u]suggesting[/u] these guys should be playing CBs, ALSO say that anyone should play [u]anything[/u] they want for [u]whatever reasons[/u] they want.

[dog flog]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1440461181' post='12201952']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1440460286' post='12201864']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1440454345' post='12201304']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1440437131' post='12199504']
<paste>
[color=#282828]You'd be able to hit your highest shots higher if you played GMax but your lowest shots would be lower with MP4s. Every design has its limitations and the human operator should be cognizant of what those limitations are and how they interact with his tendencies if he's going to find what works best for himself. [/color]
[color=#282828]<end paste>[/color]

[color=#282828]exactly...good one DF. It really isnt complicated. there are tradeoffs[/color]

[color=#282828]personally I think the [b]POTENTIAL for 3-6 feet better dispersion with blades but ONLY on a perfectly struck shot isnt worth giving up consistently solid on target ball contact[/b] which lead to consistently better scoring. not to mention those days when you arent hittin' it that great (i do realize that some wrx'ers evidently dont seem to have off ball striking days).....[/color]
[/quote]

Thank you.

The blade guys like to stick with how much tighter the dispersion is and how much more "consistent" the distance (direction ?) is with a well struck blade vs. a well struck CB.

Meanwhile, every golfer should ask themselves this - How often are [u][b]TOUR players[/b][/u] exactly pin high or within 3 yards left or right of the pin even with sand wedges into the green.

Answer - not all that often.

So what chance do double digit HCers,,,,,,, or even single digit HCers,,,,,,, have of hitting ANY club within 10 feet or so on ANY given (full) shot ? Allowing for wind ? Allowing for the firmness of the green and the tilt ? Correct the first time. Not much.

So "precision" ? "Consistency" ? For guys who are NEITHER ? When the Pros can't do it consistently. Give me a break.
[/quote]

Granted I'm a plus handicap golfer but I would say that I hit it between 3-4 yards long or short of my target approximately 12-13 times per round. This is the single biggest thing that separates below scratch golfers from high single handicap golfers. Tour pros do it all of the time. It's just that a lot of the time their "target" is not actually the pin.

I'm almost never a full club short and when I play with my high single cap buddies or high teen handicap buddies, they are hardly ever pin high and almost all of their shots are short.

I'm surprised that anyone would make an argument that pros don't hit the ball their intended distance very often....


It's a lot harder on really firm fast greens but when the course soft and easy, they pepper their target distance on almost every shot.
[/quote]

I'm going by what I see.

And I'll grant you their target distance isn't always the flag but their ultimate target is.

And keep in mind we're only seeing the BEST of that tournament. The others are almost certainly worse; that weekend anyway. And the best still aren't [u]ending up[/u] pin high 50% of the time. And these guys are the best in the world.

I will grant you, as a +3 do and probably should have, exceptional distance control but no CB guys are ever going to suggest that YOU play CBs.

But keep in mind that the CB guys aren't talking about exceptionally skilled players. Most of the time when this sort of discussion comes up it's a 10+ handicapper asking if they should play blades.

And the CB guys, pretty much to a man I might add, besides [u]suggesting[/u] these guys should be playing CBs, ALSO say that anyone should play [u]anything[/u] they want for [u]whatever reasons[/u] they want.
[/quote]To be fair, this is exactly what 'blade guys' are wont to say. And for the record, I play CBs but don't want to be known as a CB guy or a blade guy. I'm nerdy enough without those kind of handles.