Question for Blade Players

[nowitski41]

If you were to switch out your blades for a set of GI irons (i.e. RSi1s) with the exact same fitting specs would you shoot a higher score? Would you shoot the same? I assume that you wouldn't shoot better. Or would you?

 

I have the RSi1s and am wondering if a change would really help me. I went from GI to Ping i30 to Ping Anser Forged. My game peaked with the i30's and got worse with the Anser's. So I decided to go staight GI and now my hdc is the lowest it's ever been at 11.7. Mostly due to the work I put in but equipment is somewhere in the equation. I'm just trying to figure out how much difference equipment actually makes.

[Grizz06]

I sometimes think great ball strikers are the ones that this effects the most rather than guys like me.

I am not a great ball striker; when playing well I'm pretty good off the tee and my short game sans putting is above average but my ball striking is often suspect (esp 6i on). When I play with my blades (mizzy mp69's) and put a less than stout swing on the ball I generally see a minor loss of distance and minor directional error. The feel of the club is horrible with the blades (on mishits) but that's about it. I have tried numerous GI irons and when I put a bad swing on the ball I get the exact same results (as the blades) but at times I feel like all shots feel the same. I also have more issues hitting big shovels (vs. blades) in the short irons so I've stayed away from the big GI irons.

I play whatever looks the best to me (not based on what I should) and I think that emboldens confidence and the results follow. I certainly don't play anything out of pride as I have been known to put a shank proof wedge in my bag at times. I also have some CB Miura's and sadly most people I play with think I got them at Target:).

When I got fitted for my blades that's not what I wanted going in; I was set on another set of "more forgiving" mizuno irons. The fitter talked me into trying the blades and my dispersion (significantly) and distance (not so significant) numbers were improved vs the more GI.

[DTXgolfer12]

I play blades. I recently traveled and rented a set of rsi 1 irons. My iron play was very average that day. In my opinion it makes no difference in score either way you go.

[xabia]

I can hit a G25 just as poorly as I can hit my vapor pros so bad shots doesn't matter. However its the good where the difference is illuminated and the blades allow me to do the things I want to do. My assumption is after a few rounds I would shoot the same, I just wouldn't be able to do it the way I want to.

[MichiganMan]

[quote name='xabia' timestamp='1440171764' post='12182906']
I can hit a G25 just as poorly as I can hit my vapor pros so bad shots doesn't matter. However its the good where the difference is illuminated and the blades allow me to do the things I want to do. My assumption is after a few rounds I would shoot the same, I just wouldn't be able to do it the way I want to.
[/quote]

This is spot on. I choose to play players irons because of two things: look and feel. To me they look cleaner at address and feel better when you hit it on the sweet-spot. Plus I'm able to hit the ball both ways easier because there's little to no perimeter weighting.

In all honesty though, I could easily play a game enhancement club (i30, AP2, etc) and have very similar results.

[oldschoolrocker]

My take, personal preference, confidence in the club, eye appeal at address, feel, not ballstriking feel, but, how does it feel when you hold it, waggle it. Ballstriking "feel" is so debatable. The forged versus cast, blade versus GI yada yada yada...
I think we all gravitate over time to what meets our own unique criteria. Head design, size, shape, offset, lie angles, all play a part.
Let's face it, most of us here, no matter what our age difference, are geeks and tinkerers and that's just another reason we are so drawn magnetically to the sport.

[dpatti]

Well said. Make sure you're using the correct shaft and you like the head your looking at.

[RRFireblade]

I've bounced back and forth occasionally between a 'blade' and a cavity although I'm not sure about a full GI.

Really, there's not much difference in my scores although it certainly did not get better with a larger head. I think I'm just less comfortable with a larger head as I kinda feel like I can get lost in it. I don't like the idea that I can get drift around at impact a bit before it's clear I've done so. The very few yards of assumed forgiveness (far less than most people probably think) don't add up to any real scoring benefit. If you miss your target by 10 yards instead of 12, that just doesn't add up to anything at the end of the day. And if you're calculating your carry distance over a hazard by a yard or two...well then 'forgivness' is not the answer to that problem. Additiionally, I'm not a fan of the larger/wider soles on most Gi style clubs but I'm an old dude and grew up playing old crap.

However... if one is a high handicap, there's no question that a larger head and wider sole is going to result in better shots than a smaller one. The 'forgiveness' factor is debatable in scoring though IMO.

[oldschoolrocker]

Good point Fire about "what you grew up with." 61 here and cut my teeth on small blades when I started playing, so that's what is in my comfort zone. Addressing a ball with anything else puts so much doubt in my mind, like I don't know how to use the tool anymore.

[cb24]

[quote name='Grizz06' timestamp='1440168021' post='12182466']
I sometimes think great ball strikers are the ones that this effects the most rather than guys like me.

I am not a great ball striker; when playing well I'm pretty good off the tee and my short game sans putting is above average but my ball striking is often suspect (esp 6i on). When I play with my blades (mizzy mp69's) and put a less than stout swing on the ball I generally see a minor loss of distance and minor directional error. The feel of the club is horrible with the blades (on mishits) but that's about it. I have tried numerous GI irons and when I put a bad swing on the ball I get the exact same results (as the blades) but at times I feel like all shots feel the same. I also have more issues hitting big shovels (vs. blades) in the short irons so I've stayed away from the big GI irons.

I play whatever looks the best to me (not based on what I should) and I think that emboldens confidence and the results follow. I certainly don't play anything out of pride as I have been known to put a shank proof wedge in my bag at times. I also have some CB Miura's and sadly most people I play with think I got them at Target:).

When I got fitted for my blades that's not what I wanted going in; I was set on another set of "more forgiving" mizuno irons. The fitter talked me into trying the blades and my dispersion (significantly) and distance (not so significant) numbers were improved vs the more GI.
[/quote]

+1 on this. Couldn't agree anymore on the review of blades versus CBs for me as well. I Get a lot less dispersion with blades than I did with CBs. For me my ball striking is so mental it's becoming absurd. I will have a round where I hit 15/18 greens and then another where I hit 5. It really has very little to do with my equipment and everything to do with my focus.

[GOLF4373]

It's really not score that is affected it's just feel and looks. The feel and look of an iron can effect the swing you make I guess technically that can effect your score. Better players usually prefer blades because they are better for controlling shot shape and trajectory on balls hit in the center of the face. more "Game Improvement" style irons are especially harder to hit lower trajectories with.

[John L.]

I have owned and played Macgregor Tourney's (various models) for many years. I have also owned a few Ping iron sets....Zings, Eye 2, G25.

Never made any difference is my scores.

I always hit the Ping's higher and a tad further.

The MacGregor's were better under hard fairway conditions, rough, and chipping for me.

[Buzzkill]

[quote name='nowitski41' timestamp='1440164010' post='12182074']
[b]If you were to switch out your blades for a set of GI irons (i.e. RSi1s) with the exact same fitting specs would you shoot a higher score? Would you shoot the same? I assume that you wouldn't shoot better. Or would you?[/b]

I have the RSi1s and am wondering if a change would really help me. I went from GI to Ping i30 to Ping Anser Forged. My game peaked with the i30's and got worse with the Anser's. So I decided to go staight GI and now my hdc is the lowest it's ever been at 11.7. Mostly due to the work I put in but equipment is somewhere in the equation. I'm just trying to figure out how much difference equipment actually makes.
[/quote]

My scoring would be the same whether I played blades/muscles, game improvement or super gamers. Definitely would not enjoy hitting wider soled irons on hard pan though!

[tedbronson]

Met a club pro that told me that GI irons should only be for occasional players. Although they can give a small improvement in score, they can't improve the thing that really needs improving- you. Golfers that want to improve themselves in the long run need the feel that only a blade can give. He was right too. I didn't make large strides in my game until I committed to the change.

[bladehunter]

[quote name='RRFireblade' timestamp='1440172835' post='12183050']
I've bounced back and forth occasionally between a 'blade' and a cavity although I'm not sure about a full GI.

Really, there's not much difference in my scores although it certainly did not get better with a larger head. I think I'm just less comfortable with a larger head as I kinda feel like I can get lost in it. I don't like the idea that I can get drift around at impact a bit before it's clear I've done so. The very few yards of assumed forgiveness (far less than most people probably think) don't add up to any real scoring benefit. If you miss your target by 10 yards instead of 12, that just doesn't add up to anything at the end of the day. And if you're calculating your carry distance over a hazard by a yard or two...well then 'forgivness' is not the answer to that problem. Additiionally, I'm not a fan of the larger/wider soles on most Gi style clubs but I'm an old dude and grew up playing old crap.

However... if one is a high handicap, there's no question that a larger head and wider sole is going to result in better shots than a smaller one. The 'forgiveness' factor is debatable in scoring though IMO.
[/quote]



you can end the thread on that one^^^^ pretty much sums it up 100%

[Guia]

Easy answer. If the clubs are fit for lie, loft, and shaft you will adjust to either in a short time.

[LaggingBehind]

I can hit the shot I envision with blades. With cb's all swings go high which makes distance control more difficult in the short irons (easier to visualize distances by a difference in height). Blades also give more awareness of the clubhead throughout the swing which in turn gives me more confidence to find the sweetspot. Don't listen to people who say this is impossible because the speed of neural conduction is slower than a golfswing, they don't understand the capacity of the human brain to learn and anticipate.

[Titlemade]

I'm going to take a different approach to this question and analyze the club and shaft as a package. Usually blades come with a heavier total weight to include a 120-130g shaft. The biggest difference I noticed while hitting the RSi1 was the light weight of the club. I had to swing with a much smoother tempo to keep track of the club, but when I did that I got great consistent results. I think that is the biggest difference for me because I use tour issue x100 shafts in my gamers. I also tend to hit irons with more offset a tad behind the ball. I have more muscle memory for the hands than head of the club. So total weight and offset are my only real differences in clubs.

[PeanutsDaddy]

Here's the reality I'm most recently faced with . . .

I can shank just about anything.

I'm going to put into play the clubs that give me the greatest confidence.

[Titlemade]

Just about every shank starts with a club that travels too far to the inside on the way back. When a club is heavier, this will happen more often due to the fact that you can make the club travel without lifting it as much. Game improvement irons are usually a lighter total weight and are often swung back and up with more ease. Great way to help fight the underlying cause if you ask me!

[PeanutsDaddy]

[quote name='Titlemade' timestamp='1440216461' post='12187330']
Just about every shank starts with a club that travels too far to the inside on the way back. When a club is heavier, this will happen more often due to the fact that you can make the club travel without lifting it as much. Game improvement irons are usually a lighter total weight and are often swung back and up with more ease. Great way to help fight the underlying cause if you ask me!
[/quote]

Unfortunately I think my problems stem from the space between my ears Titlemade. I wasn't kidding when I state that I can experience the laterals with both head shapes. Happened this week in fact. My set of 'gamers' is a cavity back design.

I do appreciate the insight. I definitely do take the club back too far to the inside at times so you may be on to something.

[IHFN]

I quit playing blades in the late 2000's as I just wasn't playing much golf. The cavity backs helped me some because I was just so inconsistent. But, when I'm playing bad, I hit the ball so bad that there is no technology that is going to help me.

Once I started playing more and getting back to where I was decent again, I was really getting frustrated with my iron play. I tried several different sets of irons and went from game improvements to cavity backs with lots of offset and finally to my Cobra Fly Z Pro's. I'm now hitting my irons as well as I used to.

Part of it is that I'm playing better. But part of it is that these irons allow me to play every type of shot. When I went to CB/GI irons, I also started hitting the ball super high. I never made the correlation between the two. When I went back to blades it was like a atomic bomb light bulb going off. I hit it lower and could hit even lower punch shots and work the ball so much better in either direction.

And I'm talking about the difference between a set of Bridgestone J40 DPC compared to the Fly Z Pro's. I hit the DPC's sky high in comparison.

But in the end, it's all about what you are looking for in a set of clubs. My problem isn't whether or not I hit the ball solid. I either hit it solid, or make a stupid swing and hit it awful. My problem is making sure it goes in the right direction.

If I didn't hit it consistently solid, I don't know if I would play blade irons. The benefits of them are great, but they are only there if you are hitting them solid.

[T.Beau]

[quote name='nowitski41' timestamp='1440164010' post='12182074']
If you were to switch out your blades for a set of GI irons (i.e. RSi1s) with the exact same fitting specs would you shoot a higher score? Would you shoot the same? I assume that you wouldn't shoot better. Or would you?

I have the RSi1s and am wondering if a change would really help me. I went from GI to Ping i30 to Ping Anser Forged. My game peaked with the i30's and got worse with the Anser's. So I decided to go staight GI and now my hdc is the lowest it's ever been at 11.7. Mostly due to the work I put in but equipment is somewhere in the equation. I'm just trying to figure out how much difference equipment actually makes.
[/quote]

Better! I played blades exclusively for several years, took about 18 years off from golf, and when I came back to the game went with cavity backs and now hit the ball w. more quality and greater consistency than ever before. i also dont have to put all the work in at the range to make that happen like i used to

I knew that would happen and no way I would return to playing blades because when I quit golf I noticed the big move to GI irons (particularly Ping Eye's and Armour 845's)...guys were going to those in droves and almost immediately starting scoring better

I happen to believe that irons designed to be easier to flush hit are easier to flush hit and that it is better to make consistent quality contact than hitting those stinkers that cost you strokes

[Shilgy]

I know some will say the Nike Vapor Pro are not blades but I'll lay down my 2 pennies anyway. A couple years ball I tried a friend's full GI clubs on the range. They felt great and every shot was high and straight. So I bought a set. First round with them the wind was up. Couldn't flight them lower no matter what I did. They went back the next day. Thank goodness for 90 day returns! Even SGI clubs I struggle with so no more. Hope I've learned the lesson-for me. Ymmv

[Titlemade]

Start with a club that looks good to your eyes. Confidence sheds tension over the ball and can go a long way in the quality of shots. Some golfers can hit blades with more consistency due to a more confident swing with less muscle tension. The majority of others are the exact opposite and do that with a large sole and lots of offset. Same principle either way. I like a heavy club and that is my comfort blanket.

[Gumby82]

I think I would shoot worse but only because GI clubs have epic amounts of offset which would ruin me. I'd go from hitting a nice high tiny draw to hitting hooks. Plus my clubs are old and have 4 degrees extra loft. So with new GI clubs I'd be hitting hooks and hitting them too long. Give me a few rounds and I think I'd be fine with them.

[BCULAW]

I can say after a lot of hoing . ... Err. .... I mean, testing, that my score is rarely adversely affected by playing blades. But, I have shot nearly all of my lowest rounds with blades, so I do believe there is something about them that makes my best better. I take a lot of dirt when I play, and I tend to spin the ball as a result, and I think that blades tend to resist digging and spin more than the larger soled irons. I think I could play cavities without issue, and am, in fact, in love with a set of Ping s56 irons currently. But, it is typically easier for me to find the turf interaction and launch conditions I am looking for in bladed irons.

[Wardell Stone]

For me something as simple as being able to line up my shot with a blade iron makes enough difference to offset a little less forgiveness. However, turf interaction is not spoken about enough. I can play Callaway blades and have good contact consistently due to the bounce and turf interaction, but put some MP32's in my hands and I'm digging way too much.

[aussiegolferer]

Ill be flushing my long irons. Actually i Might try gi long irons and bladed mid to short irons.

[isaacbm]

I've posted this before in other threads but its been awhile...

The real question is how much does the "implied" forgiveness actually lower your score. For me personally, I have to ask myself how many times do I actually hit an
iron into a green each round. And by iron, I mean 4 iron to 8 iron because I don't personally think that forgiveness matters in the least from inside 150 yards.

So full swing, 4-8 iron. Usually 2 par 3's, possibly one shot on a par 5 in two, and then possibly on 4-5 par 4's that I actually have outside of 160 after my tee shot. The rest of my approaches are with wedges or hybrids. (I don't consider wedges in the "iron" category. )
So for me, I hit iron approaches into greens absolutely max max max 10 shots per round. Usually closer to 6 or 7. So lets say that I flush 3 of those, slightly miss 3 of those, and hit 2-4 of them poorly.

The poor ones are really the ones that make the LEAST difference. Blade or shovel won't matter at all because both will leave me with a similar type of short game shot. My short game is going to determine whether I get up and down on those, not the level of forgiveness.

The flush ones will lead to better birdie looks with the blades because of flight control.

And the slight misses will likely be better with the shovels.

So basically, Shovels have a chance of saving me possibly 1/10 of one shot on 3 different occasions during a round. But they will cost me about the same on 3 other occasions . About a wash.

People really over estimate the value of forgiveness with irons. Rather than have a debate, why not simply go to the course and do a test. Hit 5 balls with 2 different clubs from the same distance and actually see how close to the target you are. Repeat this a bunch of times and come up with and answer for yourself.

One more thing: I've always found it funny that the same people that say (using Titleist for this example) no one should be using the MB because they are simply too hard to hit, refuse to hit the AP1. They'll swear by the CB or the AP2 but even for them, the AP1 is "too big." How can it be too big if it offers "extra forgiveness?" LOL

The simple answer is that forgiveness is not everything and really, it doesn't actually affect your score by more than a shot a round.