Oceans Eleven Confessions to break a man's heart....

[billh17]

I have found out more about bounce the last two days than i ever knew existed !

No arguments

No trolls.

No insults

No surprise

Good discussion guys.

[Michael C.]

Guys, I'm looking at updating my wedges this year but am a bit lost. Do any of you know anything about wedge 'bounce' or what I should be looking for?

 

Wolf, I sense some sarcasm but it may just be your English vernacular. ;)

 

I have a 52* and 58*. Both are considered medium bounce. I'm not crazy about high bounce off tight lies and low bounce out off fluffy lies or loose sand.

 

Does that help? Probably not. Lol.

 

Still tooled! I've must be giving Ninja too many likes. I can't help. I like him. :)

[Pigems]

Guys, I'm looking at updating my wedges this year but am a bit lost. Do any of you know anything about wedge 'bounce' or what I should be looking for?

 

Wolf, I sense some sarcasm but it may just be your English vernacular. ;)

 

I have a 52* and 58*. Both are considered medium bounce. I'm not crazy about high bounce off tight lies and low bounce out off fluffy lies or loose sand.

 

Does that help? Probably not. Lol.

 

I see us Lefties Bounce along the same path on this one ;)

[MMB1500]

Guys, I'm looking at updating my wedges this year but am a bit lost. Do any of you know anything about wedge 'bounce' or what I should be looking for?

 

Wolf, I sense some sarcasm but it may just be your English vernacular. ;)

 

I have a 52* and 58*. Both are considered medium bounce. I'm not crazy about high bounce off tight lies and low bounce out off fluffy lies or loose sand.

 

Does that help? Probably not. Lol.

 

Still tooled! I've must be giving Ninja too many likes. I can't help. I like him. :)

Just teasing MC. :tease: I couldn't resist after the stimulating back and forth here over the last few days. Not mocking any of you though. You're all much more knowledgable than me. As such, I've kept out of it, because I was always taught to keep my mouth shut unless I have anything intelligent to contribute to a debate and I know my limits. Lol!

[DeNinny]

It's kinda like George Foreman espousing how great his grill is...

 

 

...or Miura espousing how great their forgings are...

 

Teehee! :D

 

Yeah, I'm bein' a stinker! Call it 'The Butterscotch Effect'

 

 

TOOLED!

 

And it took my hands on experience hitting hundreds of balls between my mp67s and various Miuras before I even considered buying mine.

 

One thing I've NEVER done is used Miuras website or "papers" by them and claimed any of it was true.

 

Nor would I bring up points about bounce unless I have exhausted the complete physics AND have direct experience playing both high and low bounce 60* wedges.

 

The only thing stinking is whatever you tried to just tried to imply.

 

Hundreds of balls?

 

NICE, my Bronerdian friend.

 

LMAO!! (hundreds of balls he says)

I bought two big buckets of balls on the order of more than a hundred balls total when I demoed the Miuras on the range and compared them to my mp67s. It only took about 10 shots but I didn't want to waste the opportunity to hit Miuras so I hit well over 100 balls that day.

 

I also still have and play both sets. Mp67s and baby blades. It's at least hundreds by now. And probably 30 rounds with each set.

[Conrad1953]

Guys, I'm looking at updating my wedges this year but am a bit lost. Do any of you know anything about wedge 'bounce' or what I should be looking for?

 

All I know is that if you jump out of a boat at 100mph you WILL bounce.

[Conrad1953]

I have found out more about bounce the last two days than i ever knew existed !

No arguments

No trolls.

No insults

No surprise

Good discussion guys.

 

We do this cause we know it gives Ninja a woody.

[Michael C.]

It's kinda like George Foreman espousing how great his grill is...

 

 

...or Miura espousing how great their forgings are...

 

Teehee! :D

 

Yeah, I'm bein' a stinker! Call it 'The Butterscotch Effect'

 

 

TOOLED!

 

And it took my hands on experience hitting hundreds of balls between my mp67s and various Miuras before I even considered buying mine.

 

One thing I've NEVER done is used Miuras website or "papers" by them and claimed any of it was true.

 

Nor would I bring up points about bounce unless I have exhausted the complete physics AND have direct experience playing both high and low bounce 60* wedges.

 

The only thing stinking is whatever you tried to just tried to imply.

 

Hundreds of balls?

 

NICE, my Bronerdian friend.

 

LMAO!! (hundreds of balls he says)

I bought two big buckets of balls on the order of more than a hundred balls total when I demoed the Miuras on the range and compared them to my mp67s. It only took about 10 shots but I didn't want to waste the opportunity to hit Miuras so I hit well over 100 balls that day.

 

I also still have and play both sets. Mp67s and baby blades. It's at least hundreds by now. And probably 30 rounds with each set.

 

I figured. Don't tell anybody but I still hit my JPX800s, too!

[MMB1500]

By the way, happy anniversary MC! 10 years is a great milestone. I'm only at 6 myself, so am a comparative beginner, but I hope to be emulating you in the not too distant future.

[MMB1500]

PD, I've been behind some GRINDERS. You'd think they were playing a major of something, I don't get it either. A few guys I played with were pretty slow, but at least scored decent. I just don't watch lol. In the off island tournaments I've played it's much worse. I'm pretty decisive, visualize and hit it. Repeat. Good luck out there, mental toughness exercise!!

 

Don't get me started on snow play Hammy. I'll be ranting until tomorrow morning. All I'll say is that I'm certain many of the hackers that line putts up from multiple angles would actually putt better if they had a quick look, went with their gut instinct and just hit the putt.

[mdgboxx]

I have found out more about bounce the last two days than i ever knew existed !

No arguments

No trolls.

No insults

No surprise

Good discussion guys.

 

Don't blink, we're just getting started!!!!!!!!!!! :taunt:

[Michael C.]

By the way, happy anniversary MC! 10 years is a great milestone. I'm only at 6 myself, so am a comparative beginner, but I hope to be emulating you in ht e not too distant future.

 

Thank you. 10 years was a miracle the first time around. This time it was remarkably easy. I hope it continues in that fashion.

[Conrad1953]

Can't imagine too many people out there swinging anything but their Woods over 100mph....just to Nit Pick ;)

 

And a few of us (me) don't swing ANYTHING at 100mph, lol.

 

I need to go buy some force multipliers.

[billh17]

I have found out more about bounce the last two days than i ever knew existed !

No arguments

No trolls.

No insults

No surprise

Good discussion guys.

 

Don't blink, we're just getting started!!!!!!!!!!! :taunt:

 

I'm like Wolf...i fully know when I am in over my head,so I keep my mouth closed !

[MMB1500]

By the way, happy anniversary MC! 10 years is a great milestone. I'm only at 6 myself, so am a comparative beginner, but I hope to be emulating you in ht e not too distant future.

 

Thank you. 10 years was a miracle the first time around. This time it was remarkably easy. I hope it continues in that fashion.

 

Well the fact it was easy tells you everything you need to know. IMO marriage or relationships shouldn't be difficult, or a strain, but rather the opposite. Takes some trial and error to come to that realisation though.

[Palauan Hammer]

Tooled :D

 

Wolf, I was one of those line on the ball guys once upon a time. I mark my ball with a single dot on the non-logo side of the ball and use that as a place for my eyes to focus. I pick a spot in front of the ball, aim the face, and roll the putt. I also don't take any practice swings for anything but partial wedges, and greenside shots (excluding putts). I would analyze my practice swings on the course and as a result it messed my mind and game up. Gut instinct is great way to putt BTW

[MMB1500]

On a side note, I've booked myself in for a driver and fairway fitting at Modern Golf at the end of May. This will be the first time I've ever been properly fit for anything, so it should be interesting. I'm going to try and go in with an open mind and zero ego and heed some of the fitting lessons from others here on WRX. If the fitter says I need a ladies flex Ping Rhapsody, then that's what I'm gonna get!

 

I'm also going with a friend to do a Trackman skills test the week after. I need to get my swing in order first, but it should be a lot of fun.

[PeanutsDaddy]

By the way, happy anniversary MC! 10 years is a great milestone. I'm only at 6 myself, so am a comparative beginner, but I hope to be emulating you in ht e not too distant future.

 

Thank you. 10 years was a miracle the first time around. This time it was remarkably easy. I hope it continues in that fashion.

 

10 'easy' years is an indication of a life well lived. Congratulations to you and Mrs. C on the milestone.

 

The PD's will be celebrating their 10th in a few weeks as well. Amazing how quickly time passes when you are in a loving relationship.

[MMB1500]

Tooled :D

 

Wolf, I was one of those line on the ball guys once upon a time. I mark my ball with a single dot on the non-logo side of the ball and use that as a place for my eyes to focus. I pick a spot in front of the ball, aim the face, and roll the putt. I also don't take any practice swings for anything but partial wedges, and greenside shots (excluding putts). I would analyze my practice swings on the course and as a result it messed my mind and game up. Gut instinct is great way to putt BTW

 

Well, I'm certainly not perfect myself, but I try not to dwell too long on putts. It just makes me tense. Not sure if you've read any of the Bob Rotella books, but he basically says the same thing, about trusting the subconscious and going with it. The rounds I've really putted well, I've managed to do that and get out of my own way. Most of the time I'm over analysing and over-thinking things though - but doing it quickly so as to not slow anyone down! It's something I need to work on.

 

As for practice swings I try and make them all about rhythm and tempo. I try not to think about mechanics at all, but of course don't always manage it. I might have to give the no practice swings thing a try too.

[PeanutsDaddy]

Tooled :D

 

Wolf, I was one of those line on the ball guys once upon a time. I mark my ball with a single dot on the non-logo side of the ball and use that as a place for my eyes to focus. I pick a spot in front of the ball, aim the face, and roll the putt. I also don't take any practice swings for anything but partial wedges, and greenside shots (excluding putts). I would analyze my practice swings on the course and as a result it messed my mind and game up. Gut instinct is great way to putt BTW

 

While I was waiting one of the gents felt the need to urinate in a pond and then did the same next to the 9th green, the other spent time lighting his cigar on the 8th. I'm at a loss at times.

 

On a positive note, I've hit some good golf shots under conditions that would normally bend me out of shape. I'm discovering that I'm best to not stick a peg in the ground or pull a club until I'm 100 percent confident that I can hit without visual distractions. I have a speedy PSR and my motor runs fast on the course so I need to keep that tempo to play well.

[Michael C.]

In case someone missed my earlier post this morning, I'd like to thank you all for your well wishes.

[Palauan Hammer]

Wolf, the only Bob Rotella book I've read is "Golf is not a Game of Perfect", read that one too many times to count. Before I read that book I "discovered" the step in and roll it method on the practice green. I noticed when I threw down a couple balls on the putting green and started putting I made a lot. Get to the course and grind over the line, make practice strokes and all that, miss badly. So I decided to just putt like I did on the putting green. Read the putt, see the line, pick my spot, roll the putt.

 

As for full shots, I stopped mostly because I would take divots and felt bad, but also if I made a "bad" practice swing I would attempt to correct what I just did over the ball. Not good Lol!

 

 

 

PD, yeah that's unfortunate you were behind people like that. I've been in that situation many times, and I'll admit I've haven't exactly handed great every time. Good your finding all these little things that make a big difference in your game. Being mentally committed to any shot is a big one. Any seed of doubt will sprout into an ugly shot usually. Make sure you write down your findings too! A golf journal is a GREAT thing to have.

[Reasonability]

The USGA's collective wee-wee is hereby flattened so thin you could make orthotic ant shoes with it.

 

OGA members don't ask for a number.... they TAKE one. OGA is behind why eye-balls, eagles, and pyramids appear on currency. There is a secret OGA handshake. There are "orders" of OGA membership. At the highest order - we turn to the south at 2 PM Greenwich on the third Tuesday of every month with an "R" in it's spelling and say three words to the first person who happens by.... "Pull My Finger". For that reason we consume mass quantities of legumes at 1 PM Greenwich.

 

Item next....

 

Lean the shaft forward enough to take bounce out of the equation until AFTER impact - accelerate PAST the ball - THEN let the bounce do its thing.

 

OR - Stand the shaft straight up level with the ball and blade it - and as long as you do so below the equator - up she goes. In that scenario - as was pointed out many pages ago, keep that trail forearm MOVING.

 

How MUCH bounce? How WIDE the flange? How straight vs radiused should the sole be? OR how curved vs straight should the leading edge be? Which of the countless "grinds" is best? Are we talking wedges or irons in general? Are we in the sand or not, here?

 

That journey will hopefully never end given the countless lies, soil and sand conditions, weather, etc... And with a little luck I'll pass from this earth having never fully figured it out but finally owning a clue. Its going to get pretty boring when the day comes I know it all and can execute flawlessly every time up.

 

Next....

 

Putting - Rumor has it that there is some sort to way of using two simple sticks to improve putting but that one must be strictly a rumor.

 

Most importantly and all sarcastic humor aside....

 

How ya doing guys? Happy anniversary MC - good health to Matt's back - Pige...way to win her back.... Stu - I HOPE to get down your way soon for at least a Captain Jack's on me. And Hammy - It WILL happen. The day is coming when you don't have the challenges of parked cars and not much turf to practice on. ITS COMING. TIme to start thinking of HOW to ease yourself back into all those things. What will that look like? What percent will be short vs long game tune-ups. We are ALL right there with you on this.

 

MDG - 30 yards off the tee sounds like about 300+ yards of pure happiness in my book.

 

Getting close to 2PM Greenwich - Gotta go. Have fun fellers.

[PeanutsDaddy]

Really nice to 'hear' your voice of Reason.

 

: )

[Michael C.]

The USGA's collective wee-wee is hereby flattened so thin you could make orthotic ant shoes with it.

 

OGA members don't ask for a number.... they TAKE one. OGA is behind why eye-balls, eagles, and pyramids appear on currency. There is a secret OGA handshake. There or "orders" of OGA membership. At the highest order - we turn to the south at 2 PM Greenwich on the third Tuesday of every month with an "R" in it's spelling and say three words to the first person who happens by.... "Pull My Finger". For that reason we consume mass quantities of legumes at 1 PM Greenwich.

 

Item next....

 

Lean the shaft forward enough to take bounce out of the equation unto AFTER impact - accelerate PAST the ball - THEN let the bounce do its thing.

 

OR - Stand the shaft straight up level with the ball and blade it - and as long as you do so below the equator - up she goes. In that scenario - as was pointed out many pages ago, keep that trail forearm MOVING.

 

How MUCH bounce? How WIDE the flange? How straight vs radiused should the sole be? OR how curved vs straight should the leading edge be? Which of the countless "grinds" is best? Are we talking wedges or irons in general? Are we in the sand or not, here?

 

That journey will hopefully never end given the countless lies, soil and sand conditions, weather, etc... And with a little luck I'll pass from this earth having never fully figured it out but finally owning a clue. Its going to get pretty boring when the day comes I know it all and can execute flawlessly every time up.

 

Next....

 

Putting - Rumor has it that there is some sort to way of using two simple sticks to improve putting but that one must be strictly a rumor.

 

Most importantly and all sarcastic humor aside....

 

How ya doing guys? Happy anniversary MC - good health to Matt's back - Pige...way to win her back.... Stu - I HOPE to get down your way soon for at least a Captain Jack's on me. And Hammy - It WILL happen. The day is coming when you don't have the challenges of parked cars and not much turf to practice on. ITS COMING. TIme to start thinking of HOW to ease yourself back into all those things. What will that look like? What percent will be short vs long game tune-ups. We are ALL right there with you on this.

 

MDG - 30 yards off the tee sounds like about 300+ yards of pure happiness in my book.

 

Getting close to 2PM Greenwich - Gotta go. Have fun fellers.

 

Thanks, Reasy and good to hear from you.

[Palauan Hammer]

The USGA's collective wee-wee is hereby flattened so thin you could make orthotic ant shoes with it.

 

OGA members don't ask for a number.... they TAKE one. OGA is behind why eye-balls, eagles, and pyramids appear on currency. There is a secret OGA handshake. There are "orders" of OGA membership. At the highest order - we turn to the south at 2 PM Greenwich on the third Tuesday of every month with an "R" in it's spelling and say three words to the first person who happens by.... "Pull My Finger". For that reason we consume mass quantities of legumes at 1 PM Greenwich.

 

Item next....

 

Lean the shaft forward enough to take bounce out of the equation until AFTER impact - accelerate PAST the ball - THEN let the bounce do its thing.

 

OR - Stand the shaft straight up level with the ball and blade it - and as long as you do so below the equator - up she goes. In that scenario - as was pointed out many pages ago, keep that trail forearm MOVING.

 

How MUCH bounce? How WIDE the flange? How straight vs radiused should the sole be? OR how curved vs straight should the leading edge be? Which of the countless "grinds" is best? Are we talking wedges or irons in general? Are we in the sand or not, here?

 

That journey will hopefully never end given the countless lies, soil and sand conditions, weather, etc... And with a little luck I'll pass from this earth having never fully figured it out but finally owning a clue. Its going to get pretty boring when the day comes I know it all and can execute flawlessly every time up.

 

Next....

 

Putting - Rumor has it that there is some sort to way of using two simple sticks to improve putting but that one must be strictly a rumor.

 

Most importantly and all sarcastic humor aside....

 

How ya doing guys? Happy anniversary MC - good health to Matt's back - Pige...way to win her back.... Stu - I HOPE to get down your way soon for at least a Captain Jack's on me. And Hammy - It WILL happen. The day is coming when you don't have the challenges of parked cars and not much turf to practice on. ITS COMING. TIme to start thinking of HOW to ease yourself back into all those things. What will that look like? What percent will be short vs long game tune-ups. We are ALL right there with you on this.

 

MDG - 30 yards off the tee sounds like about 300+ yards of pure happiness in my book.

 

Getting close to 2PM Greenwich - Gotta go. Have fun fellers.

 

Thank you Reasy for the kind and wise words as usual!! :) Excellent post! For the record I'm always "packing heat" no legumes required here! As a matter of fact no need to pull my finger, just a glance in the general direction of any of my fingers is sufficient :D :stinker:

[Matt J]

Anecdotally speaking, I feel like that a low bounce wedge on a soft lie seems to want to dig straight into the turf while a high bounce wedge doesn't want to dig, but rather like Conrad says, obliquely skim through the ball. It's more difficult for me to 'nip' a high bounce wedge off a tight lie. It's just not as precise of an instrument. Don't know anything about the science so I'll leave it at that... that's what the conventional wisdom is and that's what I've found anecdotally so I've never challenged the premise.

 

Chief, I got another little putting tip I found with my back ache. If I poke my butt out and roll my weight onto the outsides of my feet, the "blade" of your foot if you will, then I go 80/20 front foot weight, and I feel like I have this super solid base. That's helping my properly aligned and relaxed shoulders to rock correctly through the stroke.

 

I also think I need more course time with my blades. I hit them so well on the range, but I don't seem to adjust to the more various lies out on the golf course as well. I think I simply need more reps out on the golf course. Miuras may be spending some more time in the garage for now.

 

Judge, welcome back. Thanks for popping in on us!

[Chief Illiniwek]

Will give it a try minus the 80/20 thing Matt! I tried that last spring and I still struggle with having balance in my putting posture without putting it on the checklist of things to think about over the ball. Be careful. It worked great for me at first too. I'm trying to get back to just the slightest bit more weight on the front. 55/45 or 60/40.

[mdgboxx]

This is what I could find on the subject. Are they experts? Depends on your definition. Do they have degrees and a COMPLETE understanding of physics? IDK

 

Read and decide for yourselves.

 

http://www.publinksg...ight/Page1.html

 

http://www.customfit...g-wedge-bounce/

 

http://wishongolf.co...f-tour-players/

 

http://www.golfclub-...golfwedges.html

 

;)

 

There's a lot of marketing expertise in all of this. But the science is no different than what you/others have brought up already. Did you notice they were all from the perspective of a club manufacturer in the business of selling various bounce clubs? It's kinda like George Foreman espousing how great his grill is...

 

So much to refute. So little time. Just see all my points already made.

 

An independent study would have a little more credibility.

 

In the mid '90s, when I was learning to pronounce the word Golf, someone instructed me that I needed to get rid of my 2i and add a 60° wedge to my arsenal. Keep in mind that I had barely learned that I was a righty, after all. A buddy took me to a club fitter and I bought a *Professional Open 60°/06. When I upgraded to the S58s, 3-PW, I had to search for a SW. By then, I was a frequent visitor at Golftown, and better acquainted with the staff. I learned that when you put two clubs face to face, (touching/glued) if the two shafts form a straight line, they are the same loft. I left the store with both a Ping Tour-W 54°/10 and 60°/06. Until my newer Glides, I have not played with anything else....I took extensive short game lessons with the Tour-Ws. The transition to new ones is much easier.

 

In comparison, to the blade vs cavity debate, I've hit the 714Mb, 6i, and felt comfortable with it. I'm in the process of getting reacquainted with my i20s, and my S58s (lofts jacked to S55) are on stand-by. At soon to turn 72, I'll settle for what I have on hand for now.

 

When things get too technical, I normally take a step back and listen to common sense......my common sense. I'm prepared to live with the consequences.

 

In the end, when we get fitted for clubs, any club, doesn't it still come down to trial and error?

Simulators and computers only assist in saving time, IMHO.

[Matt J]

Thanks Chief.

 

I actually hesitated over writing 80/20 because I think it's probably a feel that's not real. I'm drawn to a 50/50 putting stance, but I think I pull putts when my weight hangs back, so I'm trying to get over the ball with more weight forward.

 

Never thought of the "base" thing until my back started hurting, but I think it's very similar to the shoulders which made me think of you. Basically the same intent to keep the stroke from feeling jammed and forced to "hit" the ball instead of just rocking the shoulders and letting the stroke happen. One thing I'm also playing with, but the jury is still out, is trying to feel like I "aim" the shoulder turn. I think we use this term "pendulum" and talk about the shoulders without breaking down what's really happening. Your shoulders don't actually articulate at any joint, but rather your whole pectoral girdle rotates due to the articulation between the vertebrae in your spine. I think that can happen on different axis depending on your setup and the plane you turn on. I'm starting to use the target line as a swing thought for the shoulder turn so I don't cut across it and pull it. Finally I've gotten my hands and wrists out of it for the most part :)