Aim "at" or "away" from trouble?

[Sonoronsis]

Opinions wanted to help finish off a friendly argument I'm having with a buddy.

 

Would you rather aim at trouble and curve the ball away from it or aim away from the trouble and curve towards it?

 

I understand there numerous variables like distance, wind, lie and personal stock shot shape but for simplicity sake I'm looking at this more from the mental approach to setting up for the shot.

 

Say you've got 200 yards to the green with death to one side, whats your plan on aim and curve? Moe Norman straight shots aside :wave:

 

Thanks

[Apollo 13]

I tend to aim just to the safe side of the trouble, and try to curve it further away from it. So if I hit the dreaded straight shot it will still fall safe.

 

Nothing makes me feel more like an idiot than puring a dead straight shot into a lake.

[jconroy12]

I feel the best approach is to aim to the safe side and curve it towards the danger. Even aim to miss the green on the safe side and the slight curve will land on the green. You would be better off getting up and down from the save side then risk an OB or whatever is the danger is on the other. If the curve comes off, you are safely on the green. It would be rare that you would curve it too much to reach the danger, especially it you are only playing a small draw or fade. You would have more chance of a straight shot then over curving it.

[Lefthook]

This is a situation where I think the best solution is to stick to your stock ball flight. As soon as you try to turn the ball the other way, you will spread the ball more - and the double cross will be waiting for you.

 

As a lefty drawer, I will aim at the trouble off the tee if it is on the left side of the fairway. Well, perhaps not aiming right at it, but very close to the inside. And I will aim away from trouble on the right side. Most of the time I can put a curve on the ball when I have to, and if I play it like this I should be able to put the ball in the fw no matter which side the trouble is on.

 

The hardest tee shot for me is when the fairway runs diagonally from right to left. It is very easy to get caught up in mind games and aim to align the ball flight with the shape of the fairway. What I have found out works best for me is to block out the overall shape of the fairway and the hazards surrounding it, and simply dial in on the landing area and where I want the ball to come at rest.

 

I used to play at a course where the tee shot on hole 11 was running right to left with water that started in front of the tee and lined the left side if the fariway. Then there were ob on the far right - and finally a fairway bunker that was perfectly located to collect my drive if I hit it well. This hole was asking for a left handed fade (or a right handed draw), so I always tried to shape this tee shot.

 

I frequently pushed the ball out over the water with a straightish ball flight. Sometimes it just came back, but very often it got wet. I also had my fair share of double crosses - snap hooks heading towards the right side, where, trees were blocking the approach and OB was lurking.

 

My luck on with that tee shot improved when I started to envision it as a long par three, with a green in front of the fairway bunker, and the pin way back and very close to the bunker. Suddenly the best shot and the one that could get me closest to the imagined pin was my stock draw with a bit of roll across the fairway /imagined green before resting just short of the bunker. This was still a hard tee shot for me, it was never going to play to my strength.

 

Anyway, the lesson I learned was to envision the tee shot in a way that was consistent with my stock flight pattern, to focus on the landing area and where the ball should come to rest and mentally block out everything else. And if necessary, club down.

[Kuuuch]

I never aim at trouble

[oldschoolrocker]

First, I think one needs to know ones stock pattern, left to right, or right to left, then determine where the trouble fits in the equation.

Personally I play better when I don't focus on the trouble. One has to be aware of it for proper management, but after that initial observation, factor in the days playing conditions and focus on your target.

[QB74]

Aim at target, swing towards trouble.

 

Never swing away from trouble while aiming at target, best way to end up in trouble.

[jacot23]

The trouble does not exist, take dead aim.

[oikos1]

Aim at target, swing towards trouble.

 

Never swing away from trouble while aiming at target, best way to end up in trouble.

 

??????

[QB74]

Aim at target, swing towards trouble.

 

Never swing away from trouble while aiming at target, best way to end up in trouble.

 

??????

 

Ball flight laws. You cannot end up in trouble if your club face is at target and path is towards trouble. Ball will NOT start nor curve towards trouble! For sure the most desired and safest option.

[RRFireblade]

The trouble does not exist, take dead aim.

 

This is the correct answer once standing over the ball.

 

Part 2 is that in a perfect world, one would never aim at nor intentionally bring in the path of trouble if avoidable.

 

Ideally I am fitting in my stock shot or constructing a shot that makes the odds of carrying over or Landing in trouble and absolute minimum if something does not go as planned.

[Boricua Golf]

Play to your strength not to trouble, like stated above, what ever your ball flight is "play it", so many ways to play this game and stay out of trouble, lay up, bombing it over, fading/drawing it away from it, we all have options, choose the one that will benefit the most and will not bring big numbers...

[Stuart_G]

Aim at target, swing towards trouble.

 

Never swing away from trouble while aiming at target, best way to end up in trouble.

 

??????

 

Ball flight laws. You cannot end up in trouble if your club face is at target and path is towards trouble. Ball will NOT start nor curve towards trouble! For sure the most desired and safest option.

 

Agree in principle and it certainly can be a good approach for some, but many of us have to deal with the fact that just because you aim the face in a particular direction at set-up, doesn't mean it will be pointing there at impact. One has to know their own miss tendencies to come up with the best plan for them. e.g. for me it can work well for trouble left, but I have to take a different approach for trouble on the right.

[QB74]

Sure, but most people don't understand ball flight laws and wonder how they ended up in trouble despite swinging away from it. Once you know face/path relationships you can work more towards consistency.

[Albatross85]

Sure, but most people don't understand ball flight laws and wonder how they ended up in trouble despite swinging away from it. Once you know face/path relationships you can work more towards consistency.

In principal i agree with this concept, it gets cloudy however when you add strike into the equation. Gear effect will overtake the path/face relationship when we are talking about longer clubs.

[jmiller2]

Opinions wanted to help finish off a friendly argument I'm having with a buddy.

 

Would you rather aim at trouble and curve the ball away from it or aim away from the trouble and curve towards it?

 

I understand there numerous variables like distance, wind, lie and personal stock shot shape but for simplicity sake I'm looking at this more from the mental approach to setting up for the shot.

 

Say you've got 200 yards to the green with death to one side, whats your plan on aim and curve? Moe Norman straight shots aside :wave:

 

Thanks

 

The trouble does not exist, take dead aim.

 

This is the correct answer once standing over the ball.

 

Part 2 is that in a perfect world, one would never aim at nor intentionally bring in the path of trouble if avoidable.

 

Ideally I am fitting in my stock shot or constructing a shot that makes the odds of carrying over or Landing in trouble and absolute minimum if something does not go as planned.

 

Fireblade said exactly what i do for course strategy.

 

I'm picking a club and initial line that will reduce the chance of me landing the ball into the trouble even on my poor shots.

[DevilDog]

The trouble does not exist, take dead aim.

 

This is the correct answer once standing over the ball.

 

Part 2 is that in a perfect world, one would never aim at nor intentionally bring in the path of trouble if avoidable.

 

Ideally I am fitting in my stock shot or constructing a shot that makes the odds of carrying over or Landing in trouble and absolute minimum if something does not go as planned.

 

I agree with your idea of simply taking enough club so you minimize the risk of landing in trouble. In general on most courses, there isn't much trouble long. Most all trouble is short be it middle, left or right. On the tee, I was taught to tee up on the side trouble is and aim away from it. To the green, take enough club to carry trouble in case you don't strike it well. In my experience, the people who end up in trouble the most don't take enough club to start with.

[QB74]

Sure, but most people don't understand ball flight laws and wonder how they ended up in trouble despite swinging away from it. Once you know face/path relationships you can work more towards consistency.

In principal i agree with this concept, it gets cloudy however when you add strike into the equation. Gear effect will overtake the path/face relationship when we are talking about longer clubs.

 

Yeah, that's even more difficult to bring across. I was telling a few days ago at my local club a fellow golfer where he needs to strike the ball if he wants straighter drives despite an out-to-in swing but gear effect was so alien to him I gave up straight away.

 

What I haven't found out so far is though how much weight the gear effect has with respect to face/path. Ok it depends on the actual club model and the amount of bulge but if anyone has any Info on that I would be very happy to see it.

[nikegal]

The trouble does not exist, take dead aim.

Exactly. I will play my stock shot. Most mid/high caps are taught, and I am one that teaches them this, to tee up on the side of trouble and aim away from it though once one has a consistent reproducible swing and ball flight, ie, "stock shot," and the confidence to execute it, this goes by the wayside. As Richard stated in another thread, he Plays a draw though if he has trouble right, and obviously depending on the cut of the hole though say it goes right, he will will aim center/right and hit a cut and if he "misses," it will be a straight ball instead of cut and he's fine. Basically, there is no right/wrong way to approach this as it depends on you, your swing and what gives you the most confidence to approach the upcoming shot and execute the shot that you have in your mind. Have a nice day guys :) M

[Stuart_G]

What I haven't found out so far is though how much weight the gear effect has with respect to face/path. Ok it depends on the actual club model and the amount of bulge but if anyone has any Info on that I would be very happy to see it.

 

You can play with the equations here if you want but main reason for sharing it is, at the bottom of the page, there is a section called "Sanity test" where some actual (calculated) spin numbers are provided (for toe side misses only but results for heel side misses should be symmetrical). Includes both the separate and combined impact for gear effect and bulge. Unfortunately, I haven't (yet) run into any reports showing actual data collection for horizontal gear effect.

 

http://www.tutelman....gearEffect1.php

[nikegal]

Regardless of whether one has in-to-out or out-in swing path, the goal is to strike the ball center face. Some people are introducing wayyyyy too many variables into what is really a very simple process. Your goal should be to, with whatever swing that you have, to be able to make a reproducible swing and hit that ball as close to center face as you can over and over and over and..... THEN you can predictably and with confidence decide what is the best swing/path/shot for you. Just my .01 worth :) M

[QB74]

What I haven't found out so far is though how much weight the gear effect has with respect to face/path. Ok it depends on the actual club model and the amount of bulge but if anyone has any Info on that I would be very happy to see it.

 

You can play with the equations here if you want but main reason for sharing it is, at the bottom of the page, there is a section called "Sanity test" where some actual (calculated) spin numbers are provided (for toe side misses only but results for heel side misses should be symmetrical). Includes both the separate and combined impact for gear effect and bulge. Unfortunately, I haven't (yet) run into any reports showing actual data collection for horizontal gear effect.

 

http://www.tutelman....gearEffect1.php

 

Excellent, thank you very much.

[Socrates]

I think it is safe to say that none of us are good enough to have 100% dependable ball flights. That is, on any given swing we can hit it somewhere completely different from where we think we were aiming. So unless you are really confident that day, none of us should be aiming at trouble and trying to work it away from it. Sure the goal is to be able to do that and I commend all those that try to make it happen but I wish I had a dollar for every time I got full of myself and hit it at trouble and thought I was good enough ("hang on guys, I'm gonna hit a provisional").

[Forged4ever]

I think it is safe to say that none of us are good enough to have 100% dependable ball flights. That is, on any given swing we can hit it somewhere completely different from where we think we were aiming. So unless you are really confident that day, none of us should be aiming at trouble and trying to work it away from it. Sure the goal is to be able to do that and I commend all those that try to make it happen but I wish I had a dollar for every time I got full of myself and hit it at trouble and thought I was good enough ("hang on guys, I'm gonna hit a provisional").

Agreed, however a Player, be they Amateur or Pro, and I will speak to myself here and explain a little further what Maddie mentioned above. When I walk on to that tee and say there is water right and it dog legs right past the water. I will tee either left of center to center on the box depending on where the dogleg is and also how I'm hitting the ball and I will aim right center FW.

 

When I stand there and visualize my shot and how I plan on Playing the hole, at no time does that water come into play in my shot selection. Sure, I'm not going to aim for the water however I, and most Players, DO NOT factor it in and hit away from it because that usually makes the next shot a longer shot and I am not worried about that water because I can aim center/right center FW and if I hit what I did 90%+ of the time, it's going center/right center.

 

If not, and it's that other 10%, then I'm center/left and ironically I end up where many are aiming and praying that they land, lmao.

 

So no, I don't think many Play for the water however the Vast Vast majority of Players do not factor it in once they process it's location.

 

My only point is to those moving down in cap with their physical game, well, there is also a change in thought in the mental game and Jaco, Blade & Maddie alluded to it and that is that yes, you "manage your miss" in your process(My miss would be straight/left on a cut driver) then you select the target that will give you the best approach shot. If it's near the water, so be it. I've taken the water out if the equation with my cut drive. It takes time, practice and a lot of work however that is the type of thinking/strategizing that one should work towards :)

 

Also, there is no right/wrong answer-

 

Just as my Teacher spoke of the "bridge" that one crosses where they go from depending on their physical swing and thoughts of it to carry the day, once you cross the bridge, it is the mental side that carries the day and will take you to scratch and Plus.

 

Well, so to it on one side of the bridge one plays to avoid the water and really, they are "managing their miss," it's just their "miss" covers a larger range of shots/outcomes and acreage on the course, and then on the other side of the bridge their swing is tighter and more predictable as are their misses.

 

It's an evolution Brodinies :)

 

Have a great season My Friend :)

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever,

Richard

[dlam]

How about aim at the target and curve toward the target?

[Forged4ever]

How about aim at the target and curve toward the target?

Why would someone do that?

 

Edit: My apologies, as I am medicated and processed the word "target" with "water," as in "aim at the water and curve towards the water"

 

So sorry :)

 

My Best,

Richard

[MonteScheinblum]

"You never want a straight shot to get you in trouble."

 

Jack Nicklaus told me that almost 30 years ago and right or wrong I have lived by this.

[GLG20]

My thinking is, Aim right at it... I can't hit anything I aim for anyway.

 

In reality, as a mid cap I don't depend on working the ball or flight. I assume a relatively straight path and aim for safety.

[QB74]

The trouble does not exist, take dead aim.

 

Ignoring the trouble doesn't make you stop worrying about it.

 

The only way to stop worrying is having full confidence in your shot.

[Forged4ever]

In reality, as a mid cap I don't depend on working the ball or flight.

As a Plus neither did I except if it was a dogleg right with trouble right and it took me years of practicing/Playing on the course before I had the confidence to, as my Teacher constantly chirped to me "Trust yourself," in a tourney or money game.

 

Monte's rule is gold and is one of my "commandments," lol.

 

Have a great season :)

 

Golfingly Yours,

RP