3:1 Tempo

Forged4ever · June 12, 2016

I never knew you and Maddy were tied up with John Novosel!

Here's my TourTempo story:

I had an advance copy of the book, when it first came out. I posted something about the book on another golf forum and it showed up in Golf Digest. I got a phone call from John, about 2 days later. John wanted to know why I hammered his book ... of course, GD only published part of my quote. The part where I said there was "nothing new in TourTempo, we've always known that tempo was a huge key to a good swing". They left out the part where I talked about John being the first one to really quantify the tempo we're looking for.

I spoke to John on & off through the next year or so and took a road trip to CT to take a lesson with a guy who worked with John, on the book. That was a wasted trip and a complete other story.

I bet I've sent 1000 golfers to the TourTempo website over the years and have had the App on my phone, since it came out. Every time my swing gets really out of whack, out comes my Whippy Tempomaster and the TourTempo tones.

When I was with Bobby Clampett last week, we were discussing golf instruction books. I told him my top choices were: How to Play Your Best Golf All the Time (Tommy Armour), The LAWS of the Golf Swing (Adams, Tomassi & Suttie), Understanding the Golf Swing (Manuel de la Torre) and TourTempo. Of course, Bobby suggested I add the Impact Zone to my list :)

It's nice that this thread has stayed more of less on track. The last thread about TourTempo, about 6-7 years ago, degenerated in a discussion of music theory, playing the drums, synthesized music, and how John Novosel knows nothing of tempo and doesn't know how to count. It got really weird. Then again, plenty of threads on WRX turn weird!

Hey Bro, great stories(TT and Bobby Clampett).

Yea, John's the best and though he's a lot different than Pete, we just clicked and he's got that confidence that he doesn't have to go tooth and nail over every issue, and he's funny as hell.

That's amazing about your four top books cuz these are my top four from the top to bottom. I've got em here in the hospital with me, hahaha.

Tommy was Pete's Teacher, Mentor and Friend along with John Redman and that's why I've got John's book as my #2 cuz I look at it as a follow-up on Tommy Armour's book if he'd have written a follow-up. I've gone through at least 8-9 of the Armour paperbacks and Pete gave me a signed hard cover first edition for my 40th BDay however I exchanged it with his son after Pete's funeral for an unsigned first edition.

He didn't ask but he asked if I still had it and did everything but ask. He was nothing like Pete. It never left my study as I always carried the paperbacks, lol. I thought it was kind of bush for him to "insinuate" how much it would have meant to him had Pete given it to him but hey, he was Pete's son. Maddie actually thought that I should have kept it because she said that Pete gave it to who he wanted to have it. I know that, whether I have the book or not.

I listen to the tones/music every day and practically every night when I'm in the hospital, LMAO.

Yea, I'm effed up, lol.

I'd recommend every golfer read MdlT's book regardless of their swing philosophy.

Regarding Bobby's book, the only reason that I've got it with me is this Doc wants to read it and I brought it for him. He's as obsessive as Clampett. Great guy but no wonder he had a meltdown. WhoITF writes a 228 page book on the impact position??? I thought Ben's Hogan's chapter on the grip was pushing the envelope, LMAO. I read the book and it's ok however there's a tad more to the swing, HaHa. I'll leave it at that and I can see why he suffered from Paralysis by Analysis. The boi should have done a hell of a lot more.

Yea, Matt has a nice thread and with the exception of my derailment with Eva's graduation Pics it's stayed the course. Between Matt and the members who've posted in here, it'll never go that far off track.

I'm glad that you're well and I hope that you're hittin the ball well!!

Maddie's layin here and she said to say hey :)

Stay well my Friend,

RP

hankmoody · June 15, 2016

Bouncing over from the hack thread...

Couple of thoughts this morning-

Richard-did you happen to watch the tempo of the swing of In-Gee Chun I linked above? Curious as to your assessment. I believe she would be close to the 27/9 bucket, but not quite. My TT app has 4 tempos (18/6-27/9) and I kind of wish it had one more.

So...last weekend I came very close to breaking 80 for the first time. I had a run of 3 pars in a row on the front side, 1 birdie and no doubles.

The second is more of a general question from the other thread...do we feel the backswing is a source of speed in the overall swing? As I mentioned in the other thread, one has to have the mechanics locked down in order to swing back, transition and down quickly. IMO that is why mid to highs do it slowly (in addition to 30 years of misleading instruction)--its easier to go slow.

glk · June 15, 2016

Bouncing over from the hack thread...

Couple of thoughts this morning-

Richard-did you happen to watch the tempo of the swing of In-Gee Chun I linked above? Curious as to your assessment. I believe she would be close to the 27/9 bucket, but not quite. My TT app has 4 tempos (18/6-27/9) and I kind of wish it had one more.

So...last weekend I came very close to breaking 80 for the first time. I had a run of 3 pars in a row on the front side, 1 birdie and no doubles.

The second is more of a general question from the other thread...do we feel the backswing is a source of speed in the overall swing? As I mentioned in the other thread, one has to have the mechanics locked down in order to swing back, transition and down quickly. IMO that is why mid to highs do it slowly (in addition to 30 years of misleading instruction)--its easier to go slow.

Too slow and it is not a swing but a lift. . Agree a lot of folks go slow to "feel" like they get in a good top of bs position but it works against making an athletic swing. Never thought of bs as source of speed. But it can aid or limit what speed one is capable of depending on compensations required to get to a solid impact. And consistency too. My take.

Thoughtful Hacker · June 15, 2016

I think the first instruction book that cures average golfer's infamous "paralysis by analysis" is Ernest Jones classic book "Swing The Clubhead".

Swinging the clubhead is the simplest and the most efficient and effective swing instruction of all times. He was a top 5 swing instructor in the world for three decades.

Ernest Jones said you can swing the club as fast as you like as long as you don't lose the FEEL of the clubhead swinging around you. Do you know any instruction tip simpler than that?

All you need a handkerchief and a pocket knife to start learning how to swing and ingrain your true natural swinging tempo. No apps, no mechanics!

BTW, he was better than scratch golfer and was playing tournament golf on only one leg.

glk · June 15, 2016

Bouncing over from the hack thread...

Couple of thoughts this morning-

Richard-did you happen to watch the tempo of the swing of In-Gee Chun I linked above? Curious as to your assessment. I believe she would be close to the 27/9 bucket, but not quite. My TT app has 4 tempos (18/6-27/9) and I kind of wish it had one more.

So...last weekend I came very close to breaking 80 for the first time. I had a run of 3 pars in a row on the front side, 1 birdie and no doubles.

The second is more of a general question from the other thread...do we feel the backswing is a source of speed in the overall swing? As I mentioned in the other thread, one has to have the mechanics locked down in order to swing back, transition and down quickly. IMO that is why mid to highs do it slowly (in addition to 30 years of misleading instruction)--its easier to go slow.
Too slow and it is not a swing but a lift. . Agree a lot of folks go slow to "feel" like they get in a good top of bs position but it works against making an athletic swing. Never thought of bs as source of speed. But it can aid or limit what speed one is capable of depending on compensations required to get to a solid impact. And consistency too. My take.

I Also have the mobile golf tempo app on my phone - much more customizable than TT. Has tempo from 1.6 Down to .7. Can set cadence and other things. Has a simple mode too. $10 android app.

Matt J · June 22, 2016

I took a break from the tempo work for about a week. My head wasn't totally in it after trying to use the SwingTip to measure my speed and finding my backswing still wasn't fast enough and my downswing too fast.

Today I was out on the range and decided to give the 21/7 a go. I figure that my downswing tempo is about right with the 7 and I was already having to speed up my backswing so why not try these tones. Results were amazing. I started out with an 8 iron and just felt more free. Basically I hinge my wrists, turn my shoulders, and then BAM - go after the ball. It feels way more athletic and a few elements of my swing were definitely improved like really rotating through the ball. Ironically, the greatest improvement was with driver. Stripe city. I had been struggling with driver since changing some things up with my swing and this is a godsend. I can't wait to play and see what the distance looks like on the golf course. I was rolling the ball up to our 300 yard marker in the fairway and we were about 25 or 30 yards in front of the plaque where it's measured, so they were rolling out to 265 or 270 which is long for me.

games · June 22, 2016

I took a break from the tempo work for about a week. My head wasn't totally in it after trying to use the SwingTip to measure my speed and finding my backswing still wasn't fast enough and my downswing too fast.

Today I was out on the range and decided to give the 21/7 a go. I figure that my downswing tempo is about right with the 7 and I was already having to speed up my backswing so why not try these tones. Results were amazing. I started out with an 8 iron and just felt more free. Basically I hinge my wrists, turn my shoulders, and then BAM - go after the ball. It feels way more athletic and a few elements of my swing were definitely improved like really rotating through the ball. Ironically, the greatest improvement was with driver. Stripe city. I had been struggling with driver since changing some things up with my swing and this is a godsend. I can't wait to play and see what the distance looks like on the golf course. I was rolling the ball up to our 300 yard marker in the fairway and we were about 25 or 30 yards in front of the plaque where it's measured, so they were rolling out to 265 or 270 which is long for me.

Nice.

I think once you reach a certain level, TT is a great way to "re-calibrate" the swing. If the core fundamentals are there, it tightens things back up.

Matt J · June 26, 2016

Well stated games.

I think it hides some mistakes I make as I don't have time for a lot of extra movements, but some of my first swing flaws were from "swinging from the top" so a slower backswing tempo helped me fight the "hit instinct." Right now in rushing my backswing I have to be very conscious of the transition and if I don't time it correctly I hit that straight pull or pull the handle and hit it real fat.

I'm finding I have to take breaks from this tempo work and get back to fundamentals in my swing. I really need to break out the video camera and count frames because I'm just not convinced that the SwingTip sensor is accurate. Not to mention I could use taking a look at what's going on at the moment (should probably send a copy to Monte too, and get some ideas).

My scores are really reflecting not having a grooved swing anymore. My last round out I made the turn at 3 over and all 3 of those strokes were lost on two shanked shots. I'm probably lucky I didn't lose more. Same lie, same attempted shot shape, and same result. Also, the added full shot time working on tempo has cut into short game practice and that's becoming pretty obvious too. Don't think I've had a round with less than 30 putts in two weeks.

kg1128 · June 27, 2016

Bought the book when it first came out about 10 years ago. I remember practicing with the included metronome beats on CD (21:7, 24:8, etc.)

Now I realize that much simpler way to practice is to use Youtube. Find a video of your favorite golfer swinging in regular speed (I bet all wrx-ers can carry 300 yds so all would pick Rory or Ernie or Tiger, but if you are honest about your game, pick an LPGA pro, Lydia Ko for example), and just swing in sync with pro swing in the video. This is 'TOUR TEMPO' in the most literal way.

When I first tried this, unlike many posters above, I realized my transition was way too slow compared to pros. Lesson learned? It's not about getting the 3:1 ratio right. It's about fixing other things that causes you to deviate from the ideal tempo. And for myself (and for most people I think), this was due to excessive tension in my arms and grip especially during the transition sequence. Having relaxed arms and grip, and adding speed at the right place - not immediately from the top but as you enter impact area - will generate right rhythm and tempo ratio.

Matt J · July 16, 2016

Quick update:

I moved away from using the tones for the time being. I felt that realizing that I needed to take the club back faster was a big enough change for the moment. When I began the journey to change my tempo I realized that there were a few swing flaws I was hiding with bad tempo. For one I've always had a flat swing that begins with an early wrist set back and around my body. I've nearly ingrained a good shoulder turn and proper wrist set at an angle that fits the club in my hand. So, after shoring up some mechanics I realized that my biggest challenge has been getting the club to the correct place at the top and quickly and then slowing down enough to shallow before getting to far into the impact zone. Some people could argue that I'm "manipulating" the club at the top, but I don't feel that's accurate, that's just the way I'm describing it.

In truth it's more about the right timing and the mechanics of keeping my trail elbow connected. When I do it right, it seems technically very sound. But the timing just isn't perfect yet to return the level of ball striking I was used to previously. I'm convinced that another two or three weeks will only deliver better more centered contact.

On a very positive note, I've usually suffered from loss of swing speed through the bag creating weird gaps, NOW WITH THE 3:1 TEMPO, I've actually picked up the 10 yard gain per club from about the 7 iron through my wedges. 6 iron up still suffers from just enough mishit to not achieve the distance gain consistently, although I do think that's on the upswing.

Additional note: Don't attempt swing and equipment changes at the same time, that added a level of confusion that wasn't necessary.

Divot License · July 21, 2016

Not to hijack this great thread but what are the tommy drills?

Matt J · July 21, 2016

Tommy Drills refers to a set of two drills advocated by Tommy Armour. They are also called Y and L drills. The Y refers to a one piece takeaway on plane with your wrists straight your arms make a "Y." And the L is the setting of the wrists. You can also refer to the release of the wrists through impact as L back to Y. And the natural set of the wrists through the follow through as another L. Often you'll see L to L drills to encourage a player not to flip at the ball. You'd have to buy the Tour Tempo book to get Mr. Novosel's complete explanation.

There are a bunch of videos and explanations out there. Good luck!

Forged4ever · July 24, 2016

Well, Henrik was clocked in at 18/6 for his full swing and 16/8 for the putter.

LMAO, he is back to impact before 99% of average golfers get to the TOP of their swings, lol.

Have a great week Ladies & Gents :)

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends,

RP

verderraul · July 24, 2016

Well, Henrik was clocked in at 18/6 for his full swing and 16/8 for the putter.

LMAO, he is back to impact before 99% of average golfers get to the TOP of their swings, lol.

Have a great week Ladies & Gents :)

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends,
RP

Took lots of videos of Adam Scott at oakmont. Maintains a cool 21/7 throughout the bag . He was hitting next to Harris English . Couldn't think of a better juxtaposition when it comes to tempo/maintaining width and hitting towering shots.

white03 · July 26, 2016

Amazing that the pro's are swinging this fast, yet it doesn't look like it. The eye will fool you no doubt.

And0o · August 4, 2016

I have been using the tour tempo app lately and it has worked wonderfully with irons and wedges but has anyone else had issues with hybrids, drivers and woods?

Matt J · August 6, 2016

Seems sometimes it brings out swing flaws that are more obvious in the longer clubs. For me it's firing my hips too early.

Thoughtful Hacker · August 6, 2016

"We've heard other teachers say that if you swing the club back too slowly, you will snatch it down from the top. May be. But for every player we've seen take the club back too slowly, we've seen 10,000 who go back too fast." ...Bob Toski & Jim Flick

Matt J · August 11, 2016

Personally, I'm glad I went down this road although I've probably had some of the worst ball striking that I've experienced in at least 18 months.

I have built a better understanding of how tempo effects flight especially path. I do believe at this point that you can take the club back too slowly, but not too quickly. The common mistake would be to let the tempo of the backswing effect your transition and down swing.

I haven't used the tones for about a month and probably won't until after this tournament at the end of the month, but will again this fall. Tempo work is powerful medicine, but as such, it's also difficult to harness.