Most Over Rated Course on the Major Rotation

[drbonesvt]

Any PGA champ course.

 

St. Andrews is awesome, totally different style of golf. Can't judge until you've played it. But that's just my opinion :)

 

If St Andrews was in the middle of Iowa, they'd be lucky to get $7 for greens fees because of the course conditions. IMO

 

 

Greg

 

 

 

St. Andrews is technically a public park over there

[JD3]

I've played Oak Hill in tournament conditions and man alive that course is a beast as well. WF as well. I think the world of majors could stand to bring in some new blood to show what else is out there. Players learn courses and it becomes target golf for them. PH #2's only defense to me is the domed greens but if they are soft and wet and the greens slow down it's not a tough track at all. Pebble is another I could see being in the overrated column because the greens are just crappy as all get out. No championship should ever be decided by a lucky bounce off crappy poa.

 

I played OHCC a few weeks after the PGA in 2013, and the Friday before the club championship. It was tough, but extremely fair. Back then I was about a 22 index, shot a 99 from the whites, and I think the differential was in the high-teens. Typical Donald Ross course, its all right there in front of you, go get it. I've played all of Ross' designs in the area, and OHCC is significantly better then all of them. The things you don't see on TV is how much up and down and subtle swings there are on the course. They all look straight away on TV, they are not. Balls you think should find the fairway, are on a slightly wrong line, or take a bounce into the rough. A well played shot is rewarded though, which is all you can ask for out of championship layout. That course was blessed with some great land to start with.

What other Ross courses are in the area?

[johnseg]

This whole thread sums up golf the best for me. Personal preference. Everyone likes something different. One man's trash is another man's treasure. What I like about golf s getting play different places and see different courses. There are always things I will like about places and things I will dislike. For me the biggest marvel about going to tour/major stops is seeing the condition the courses are kept. Much different then what I play on a day to day basis.

 

We went to Philadelphia and played Aronimink GC two summers ago and I was amazed by the 18th tee. It is about 70 yards long, perfectly flat the entire length and the mowed edges looked like they were done a laser.

[VOX]

I have palyed St Andrews about 25 times over the last dozen years and have always found it in excellent condition. In fact.it is the only course that. I can think of that could old a major at a days notice.

 

When did you play it when you found it to be in poor condition?

[gp7xs]

Any PGA champ course.

 

St. Andrews is awesome, totally different style of golf. Can't judge until you've played it. But that's just my opinion :)

 

If St Andrews was in the middle of Iowa, they'd be lucky to get $7 for greens fees because of the course conditions. IMO

 

 

Greg

 

Can't quite read your tone but that sounds like an incredibly ignorant comment . Explain to me how you think the old course is in poor condition ?

 

I walked all 18 holes the Sunday before the Scottish Open (the course was closed so I walked it and took photos of each hole) and there was at least 100+ divots per every fairway and the greens were in really bad shape. Lots of bare ground in play. It looked very much like a very abused muni. So the fact that I was there recently, walked the course and have been in the golf business for 48 years (34 as a PGA Golf professional), I think it was based on eye witnessed fact and not so much an "incredibly ignorant comment".

 

But I did say it was my opinion. The first time Sam Snead saw St Andrews he said "we would't even grow cow beets on land that looked like this place"

 

 

Greg

 

It's funny, I'm in St. Andrews right now and they're preparing for the dunhill links. The course is in fantastic condition. Yes, if there's no wind the course is a joke (I had the pleasure of playing here daily for 5 years) but otherwise most people struggle to play to their handicap. The only time I see the course in a bad condition is right after hosting a tournament of some description and they host a lot of amateur tournaments too.

 

Overrated doesn't necessarily mean easy either. I find Troon an overrated course and also Carnoustie. The latter is a tough course (I've played it) but doesn't seem to produce interesting Open championships to me. Despite being tough, I also didn't enjoy playing it. I just found it very monotonous.

 

My feelings exactly! I've had the pleasure of playing TOC 6 times over the last 5 years and to me it is my favourite golf course (I've played a little over 1/3 of the top 100). The layout grows on you every time you play it. You get to know it better, with its bumps and hollows, intricacies around the greens. It seems every hole can be played a different way, every day. There is not "one best way" of playing the course. To me, this is what golf should be about (in part).

 

As for the conditioning, every time I've played it, it was in top shape. Of course there are divot holes in the fairways... It is the course that gets the most playing in the world! It isn't a private, exclusive course where only 4 or 5 foursomes get out every day. To me, the fact that the course remains in such good condition with the amount of play it gets it a testament to the Links Trust's ability to take good care of their courses.

 

The old Links of of the British Isles are quirky and unique. For some North Americans, this is unappealing. But for me, they are the epitome of what golf is and should be. Granted, not all of the old links are great. For example, I found Royal Troon to be rather boring apart from the 8th hole. Same goes with Western Gailes. But places like TOC, Prestwick, North Berwick, Cruden Bay and Royal Dornoch are works of art. Carnoustie is a great course too, just not amongst my favourites. Haven't played the revamped Turnberry yet, but I keep hearing great things about it. I lad the course when I played it, the setting is unique.

 

Almost every great architect has used TOC as a baseline for course design. I think that speaks volume!!

[pdakc]

Pinehurst #2 for me. 3 minutes after playing it, I couldnt remember a single hole or shot that stuck out. The price they charge is unwarranted and only even marginally justified by its history.

[justwellsy]

Reading all these replies it's hard to tell what merits a course being overrated. Does it have to be really tough? If the players play well does that make it less of a course? Does it have to be in perfect condition? If it's not visually pleasing does it suck?

 

I can't really think of an overrated Major venue, but I can tell you that Torrey Pines is not overrated (having played it in person). I really like watching Bethpage on TV but have not played it. Do you have to play a course in order to be abel to comment on it one way or another? I'm not sure because I like "watching" Bethpage, but felt like some of you about Torrey Pines until I actually played it. I'm wondering if I actually played some of these courses if it would change my mind.

 

The one thing I can say for sure is that there are 3 untouchables in major golf.... Augusta National, Pebble Beach, St. Andrews. There's a reason Pebble and St. Andrews get the "milestone" opens for their respective countries.

[Jshyne]

Personally i remember major courses based more on looks than who won with what score. Alot of courses look similar on TV. Whistling Straights looks tough as balls and just incredible views. I look forward to watching any event played there.

 

Agree.

 

And Whistling Straits does look amazing.

 

Agree I am getting married there in 15 days just was on the grounds yesterday and it is stunning. People making a lot of the course because the low scores and the bunkers. This course could play ridiculously hard if they wanted to set it up that way. The bunkers are a nod to the sand dunes across the pound. Step foot on the grounds and you would instantly get it. You go from flat corn and soybean fields (literally out the gate) to find the amazing sign (see profile pic). Once you make the trek up the drive you are greeted at stone clubhouse that looks transplanted from Ireland. Once you go to the other side you are hit with this amazing view of rolling green and the sand dunes and the shores of lake Michigan. Painted green, blue, sandy browns you get this amazing place. The course lay out is also amazing except for number 5 it just seems out of place but every hole has its own character.

 

Here's a picture from yesterday looking between holes 10 and 18 towards Lake Michigan

 

http://imgur.com/a/lQvO4

 

Edit whats up with no direct links to imgur?

[jsabatke]

Living fairly close to Whistling Straights and playing the Dye courses around there, as well as seeing Blackwolf Run and Wistling Straights, WS is a far sterner test than the other 3 Kohler courses. WS is a monster, and IMHO deserved it's off the charts, highest possible slope when it opened. It's monstrously difficult to drive, and Day tamed it with unbelievable driving. You can only build a course so difficult or it becomes unplayable, and the original WS layout was in that category. They had to modify it to make it pro playable, but it still has viscous teeth. I don't know of any way to defeat pinpoint long drives and that's what happened. Dustin J. should have known the sand rule. I saw it and immediately thought "penalty", and the officials were careful and clear telling the players that all sand was hazard before the tournament began. Walking it is difficult with all the tiny sand areas.

 

So, it seems record scoring despite the courses defenses and being too penal for having sand are both bad. I have to think those two thoughts are a bit contradictory.

[Forged4ever]

I have palyed St Andrews about 25 times over the last dozen years and have always found it in excellent condition. In fact.it is the only course that. I can think of that could old a major at a days notice.

 

When did you play it when you found it to be in poor condition?

It's sort of ironic that I am answering here however Oakmmont could hold a Major on a days notice.

 

It might not be what is given the time to prepare that they had this year, and the scores might be a tad lower, however as I mentioned earlier, Jason Day dropped in when he was in town and had a ho-hum 74.

 

HaHa, as I think about it, how friggin overrated could it be if it could hold a Major on a day's notice and still embarass one third to half the field??

 

Yep, I'm just bitter cuz the Oakmont that I grew up with is a distant memory and it's gettin foggier every day, lol.

 

HaHa, You guys know me and change.

 

That, and sometimes I just say some stupid s*** ;)

 

All the Best,

RP

[Jshyne]

Living fairly close to Whistling Straights and playing the Dye courses around there, as well as seeing Blackwolf Run and Wistling Straights, WS is a far sterner test than the other 3 Kohler courses. WS is a monster, and IMHO deserved it's off the charts, highest possible slope when it opened. It's monstrously difficult to drive, and Day tamed it with unbelievable driving. You can only build a course so difficult or it becomes unplayable, and the original WS layout was in that category. They had to modify it to make it pro playable, but it still has viscous teeth. I don't know of any way to defeat pinpoint long drives and that's what happened. Dustin J. should have known the sand rule. I saw it and immediately thought "penalty", and the officials were careful and clear telling the players that all sand was hazard before the tournament began. Walking it is difficult with all the tiny sand areas.

 

So, it seems record scoring despite the courses defenses and being too penal for having sand are both bad. I have to think those two thoughts are a bit contradictory.

 

Also that week was the best possible conditions I don't think the winds got over 5 mph all week (which is unheard of there) and they got rain early that week and again on Wednesday night. couldn't ask for better scoring conditions.

[sixtysevensixtyseven]

Living fairly close to Whistling Straights and playing the Dye courses around there, as well as seeing Blackwolf Run and Wistling Straights, WS is a far sterner test than the other 3 Kohler courses. WS is a monster, and IMHO deserved it's off the charts, highest possible slope when it opened. It's monstrously difficult to drive, and Day tamed it with unbelievable driving. You can only build a course so difficult or it becomes unplayable, and the original WS layout was in that category. They had to modify it to make it pro playable, but it still has viscous teeth. I don't know of any way to defeat pinpoint long drives and that's what happened. Dustin J. should have known the sand rule. I saw it and immediately thought "penalty", and the officials were careful and clear telling the players that all sand was hazard before the tournament began. Walking it is difficult with all the tiny sand areas.

 

So, it seems record scoring despite the courses defenses and being too penal for having sand are both bad. I have to think those two thoughts are a bit contradictory.

 

Also that week was the best possible conditions I don't think the winds got over 5 mph all week (which is unheard of there) and they got rain early that week and again on Wednesday night. couldn't ask for better scoring conditions.

 

My handicap fluctuates between 0 and +2 and having played the Straits probably 30 times I've had days where I've hit every shot well and shot around par and I've had days where I've hit almost every shot well and shot 85. If you hit every single shot on the button and get good conditions it's playable. If you're a little off and the wind is blowing it's miserable.

 

I'm admittedly not a very big fan of Dye courses. I personally think The River course is more difficult and a better test up there but I think it has done a good job of putting a trophy in the best player's hands.

 

I think Chamber's Bay was the worst golf course I've ever seen a major on. I wish the US Open would get back to a steady diet of old school country clubs with fast greens and deep rough. Erin Hills is going to look a lot like Chamber's Bay only it'll be in far better condition next year.

[WidespreadPanic]

Baltusrol looked like your standard Country Club course. A nice course? Yeah. A Major Championship course for the PGA Tour? Not in my eyes. The PGA Tour needs to check out Bulle Rock in Maryland.

The PGA Tour does not select courses for the PGA Championship. The PGA of America does.

Are you serious?

[jsabatke]

Living fairly close to Whistling Straights and playing the Dye courses around there, as well as seeing Blackwolf Run and Wistling Straights, WS is a far sterner test than the other 3 Kohler courses. WS is a monster, and IMHO deserved it's off the charts, highest possible slope when it opened. It's monstrously difficult to drive, and Day tamed it with unbelievable driving. You can only build a course so difficult or it becomes unplayable, and the original WS layout was in that category. They had to modify it to make it pro playable, but it still has viscous teeth. I don't know of any way to defeat pinpoint long drives and that's what happened. Dustin J. should have known the sand rule. I saw it and immediately thought "penalty", and the officials were careful and clear telling the players that all sand was hazard before the tournament began. Walking it is difficult with all the tiny sand areas.

 

So, it seems record scoring despite the courses defenses and being too penal for having sand are both bad. I have to think those two thoughts are a bit contradictory.

 

Also that week was the best possible conditions I don't think the winds got over 5 mph all week (which is unheard of there) and they got rain early that week and again on Wednesday night. couldn't ask for better scoring conditions.

 

Yes! The course was designed for the swirling winds from the lake. Same thing happens at Open courses with no wind.

[NC IA Hacker]

Lol at Greg...played Bos Landen in Iowa for $40 and felt robbed. Nothing like bunkers that are as hard packed as the cement paths.

[bph7]

Overrated doesn't mean bad, it just means it's rated higher than it should be. St Andrews to me is overrated in that many consider it like a top 3 course in the world. The history and everything is undeniable, but as a course it just seems pretty bland until the end. It's still a great course, IMO not as great as many "rate" it, thus it's "overrated".

[JD3]

Personally i remember major courses based more on looks than who won with what score. Alot of courses look similar on TV. Whistling Straights looks tough as balls and just incredible views. I look forward to watching any event played there.

 

Agree.

 

And Whistling Straits does look amazing.

 

Agree I am getting married there in 15 days just was on the grounds yesterday and it is stunning. People making a lot of the course because the low scores and the bunkers. This course could play ridiculously hard if they wanted to set it up that way. The bunkers are a nod to the sand dunes across the pound. Step foot on the grounds and you would instantly get it. You go from flat corn and soybean fields (literally out the gate) to find the amazing sign (see profile pic). Once you make the trek up the drive you are greeted at stone clubhouse that looks transplanted from Ireland. Once you go to the other side you are hit with this amazing view of rolling green and the sand dunes and the shores of lake Michigan. Painted green, blue, sandy browns you get this amazing place. The course lay out is also amazing except for number 5 it just seems out of place but every hole has its own character.

 

Here's a picture from yesterday looking between holes 10 and 18 towards Lake Michigan

 

http://imgur.com/a/lQvO4

 

Edit whats up with no direct links to imgur?

Congrats on getting married

 

I'm sure it's a stunning setting and overall first class experience.

 

That however does not make it a major worthy track.

[Andrew Bond of Glencoe]

Most overrated is a tough one. My thoughts...

 

1) I am not sure why but I am underwhelmed by Whistling Straights. It has a lot of bunkers and the broadcast team tends to spend 4 hours of airtime over 4 days reminding me.

 

2) It's hard to put Chambers Bay on this list because the USGA screwed up trying to trick the course up. That being said, I played the course in its second year and while it was nice I don't remember thinking, "this is a US Open venue."

 

3) I am flirting with putting Pebble Beach on this list, but I fear the crowd might hunt me down. Again this comes from playing the course a couple of times, and I do realize that the USGA tricks it up, but Pebble just doesn't jump out and scream US Open to me, or tough for that matter. It's fairly wide open and it's a second shot course. That being said it's the most popular dame at the ball and it certainly has the picturesque views.

 

4) Royal Troon is a bit of a snoozer for me. I too would enjoy it if they moved the Open across the Firth to Prestwick, though it will never happen. Prestwick is quirky with a lot of blind shots and pros want precision.

[Double Mocha Man]

Any PGA champ course.

 

St. Andrews is awesome, totally different style of golf. Can't judge until you've played it. But that's just my opinion :)

 

If St Andrews was in the middle of Iowa, they'd be lucky to get $7 for greens fees because of the course conditions. IMO

 

 

Greg

 

Where's Iowa?

[Kdavidson]

So if I understand your definition of an overrated course, and correct me if I am wrong, it would be a course that today's players can overpower with low scores. Does that mean that Pebble Beach is overrated, because Tiger sure had his way with it during a major. Just my personal opinion, I find Bethpage Black greatly overrated. Is it a great public course for being in NYC? Sure it is. But my experience playing it was that its just long and has brutal rough and I would be fine never playing it again. New Yorkers- I look forward to your hate mail. LOL!

 

Sounds like OP just didn't like Whistling Straights on his recent trip and wanted to start a "general" thread about overrated major venues...

 

I could be wrong though.

Never played there. I just see through the deal it gets majors simply to drive golf tourist traffic to the site. It's all about money and was never about the course as a deserving venue

 

Everything is about money lol

 

You don't get 100's of people to pay $300 a round everyday with an undeserving layout...

 

If you haven't played there how can criticize anyways? You have zero leg to stand on.

 

I've never played there, and I have no judgement on the course. That being said, people overpay for an inferior product/experience all the time. You think golf is immune?

[sixtysevensixtyseven]

So if I understand your definition of an overrated course, and correct me if I am wrong, it would be a course that today's players can overpower with low scores. Does that mean that Pebble Beach is overrated, because Tiger sure had his way with it during a major. Just my personal opinion, I find Bethpage Black greatly overrated. Is it a great public course for being in NYC? Sure it is. But my experience playing it was that its just long and has brutal rough and I would be fine never playing it again. New Yorkers- I look forward to your hate mail. LOL!

 

Sounds like OP just didn't like Whistling Straights on his recent trip and wanted to start a "general" thread about overrated major venues...

 

I could be wrong though.

Never played there. I just see through the deal it gets majors simply to drive golf tourist traffic to the site. It's all about money and was never about the course as a deserving venue

 

Everything is about money lol

 

You don't get 100's of people to pay $300 a round everyday with an undeserving layout...

 

If you haven't played there how can criticize anyways? You have zero leg to stand on.

 

I've never played there, and I have no judgement on the course. That being said, people overpay for an inferior product/experience all the time. You think golf is immune?

 

The Straits is a lot more than $300 to play. I think it gets a black eye from getting destroyed under really good conditions and if you use that logic Augusta is a bad course.

 

I suppose you need to make it a little more clear when you say overrated. Overrated from the perspective of a fan view a golf tournament or overrated as in don't go play it because it's a bad course.

 

From a viewer standpoint I think #1 on my list of most overrated would be Pinehurst #2. It's long and ugly and if you miss a green you just pitch or putt it to the center and take bogey. My home course is a Donald Ross design so I don't like to bash it but I just don't think it's a good all around test and it's a boring course to watch a tournament on.

 

From a paying to go play it standpoint Chamber's Bay is so far in the lead I don't think anyone will ever catch it. It's a dump that wasn't good enough to be a quarry so they turned it into a goat ranch. We played it earlier this year and there are too many things that annoyed me about it to list.

[bph7]

 

 

Sounds like OP just didn't like Whistling Straights on his recent trip and wanted to start a "general" thread about overrated major venues...

 

I could be wrong though.

Never played there. I just see through the deal it gets majors simply to drive golf tourist traffic to the site. It's all about money and was never about the course as a deserving venue

 

Everything is about money lol

 

You don't get 100's of people to pay $300 a round everyday with an undeserving layout...

 

If you haven't played there how can criticize anyways? You have zero leg to stand on.

 

I've never played there, and I have no judgement on the course. That being said, people overpay for an inferior product/experience all the time. You think golf is immune?

 

The Straits is a lot more than $300 to play. I think it gets a black eye from getting destroyed under really good conditions and if you use that logic Augusta is a bad course.

 

I suppose you need to make it a little more clear when you say overrated. Overrated from the perspective of a fan view a golf tournament or overrated as in don't go play it because it's a bad course.

 

From a viewer standpoint I think #1 on my list of most overrated would be Pinehurst #2. It's long and ugly and if you miss a green you just pitch or putt it to the center and take bogey. My home course is a Donald Ross design so I don't like to bash it but I just don't think it's a good all around test and it's a boring course to watch a tournament on.

 

From a paying to go play it standpoint Chamber's Bay is so far in the lead I don't think anyone will ever catch it. It's a dump that wasn't good enough to be a quarry so they turned it into a goat ranch. We played it earlier this year and there are too many things that annoyed me about it to list.

 

Neither of your definitions of overrated (esp the second one) is what overrated really means. It has nothing to do with "bad" just "has a better reputation than deserved." I have no idea how courses like Valhalla or chambers bay could be considered overrated as they are consistently rated very lowly in terms of major championship venues. They seem to be more likely to be properly rated (since most rate them as not as good as other venues). The best candidates for overrated are the ones that are always rated super high (St. Andrews, pebble, and say oakmont). Since there ratings are so high, there is more room for them to possibly be overrated. The thread should've been titled "worst courses on major rotation" since that's what everyone seems to want to discuss, but IMO that has nothing to do with overrated.

[bearyjohnson]

I agree with whistling straits. The 18th is played directly into the sun and does not make for a good viewing tournament which is what they are looking for.

[LBV]

Interesting conversation... The more I read the posts I think the best comments were made by those who have PLAYED major venues, although can we really compare our experiences to those of world-class players under what are considered the most scrutinizing conditions?

 

I am no world-class player, but I've had privilege of playing several major championship courses on the west coast and thought I could stand on my soap box and comment about why NONE of them should be discussed on this thread.

 

 

Torrey Pines in 2012 - Perfect day and did not play the US Open tees, but I felt like it was a great experience and definitely worthy of hosting a major championship (I also visited the course during the 2008 US Open).

 

The world's best player won with one good leg over 90+ holes. How many of you called in sick on Monday to watch the playoff??? Say what you want about the golf course but we were treated to a wonderful golf tournament.

 

I also think about the field that week and how many of those players grew up dreaming of playing (or did play) the junior worlds on that course. I'm sure most of them were licking their chops when Torrey got awarded a US Open.

 

 

Pebble Beach in 2004 and 2011 - Played it twice, again not in US Open Conditions and not from the back tees. Once in breezy, overcast conditions and once in calm, "chamber of Commerce" conditions. Two completely different courses without question depending on weather (I was a spectator at both the 2000 and 2010 US Open) but I would take either course and stack it up against any 7,500 yard beast in US Open conditions, both for it's beauty and it's challenge.

 

This just in... Until the USGA can control the weather, in my opinion, mother nature shouldn't factor in to people's criteria as to whether or not a golf course "overrated."

 

History aside I"m still surprised that Pebble is even mentioned in this thread. I will concede that length relative to other US Open venues is short, but I would venture a guess (and it is a guess) that the average surface area of the greens is smaller than that of many venues posting yardages of 7,200+. "Crappy Poa?" A bad bounce on poa annua greens is a reality, yes, but everyone in the field plays the same greens the week of a major, and these are the best players in the world. Why is that any different than a spike mark on a bentgrass green in major conditions???

 

US Open Winners... Nicklaus in '72 @ +2 (18 majors, also won the 1961 US Am), Watson in '82 @ -6 (8 majors), Kite in '92 @ -3 (1 - but for many years the all time leading money winner on tour. Anyone remember players hitting 5 irons on the 7th tee that Sunday - a 100 yard hole!), Woods in '00 @ -12 (14 majors), and McDowell in '10 @ E (1 major) - Not a bad fraternity of major champions.

 

I think, like the R&A with St. Andrews, the USGA puts Pebble in a constant rotation because everyone knows the venues and because of their respective history and beauty. Those venues also produce great champions year in and year out. And why shouldn't those organizations feel compelled to showcase their countries best, most recognizable courses on a regular basis?

 

 

Olympic Club Lake Course, four to six occasions between 2010 & 2013 - played mostly from the blue tee markers, but I've played it twice from the most current USGA tees (one of those occasions was two weeks post tournament). One of the toughest tests of golf I've ever experienced, bar none. I've never experienced Oakmont but I do know Olympic Club members take immense pride in the rich history of their club and the challenge the Lake Course presents to world-class players. I wouldn't say the course is tricked up by any means. The conditions were consistently good and the more I played it, the more I figured out where NOT to hit it (in my mind. Generally the golf ball still found it's way there).

 

I think the Lake Course might be known more for the players who couldn't close the door rather than the players who won there. Hogan couldn't win there, and Jack Fleck flew under the radar (multiple PGA tour winner). Palmer couldn't win there, losing to Billy Casper in a playoff. Casper is certainly no slouch of course and was one of the best players on tour NOT named, Hogan, Nicklaus or Palmer. Tom Watson and Seve Ballesteros couldn't win there, both being bested by Scott Simpson. While SImpson was a solid player and contended late in several US Opens, he certainly did not have the resumes of Watson or Ballesteros.

 

Payne Stewart couldn't win there, and Lee Janzen probably shouldn't have won but got the break of the century when one of his tee shots thought to be lost was suddenly found. Again, Janzen was a solid player and two-time winner but probably not in anyone's pick for that tournament. Finally, Furyk's bid for a second Open was thwarted after hooking his tee shot on the 16th hole into the corporate tents, paving the cart path for Webb Simpson (shanks for the memories at Medinah) to win.

 

I remember being on the grounds that week and watching Simpson hit balls before a practice round. I remember being fairly unimpressed with how we was hitting it and figured he wouldn't be a factor. He's certainly very young and who knows if he can regain his confidence post anchored putter, but for now he's another major winner at Olympic who I think takes a back seat to the runner-up.

 

 

I think the true test of an overrated Championship venue should be based on a major golf association's desire to return to a venue to contest a championship. There can be many reasons why the PGA/R&A/USGA won't return to certain venues, but I do think the courses they make return trips to have the overwhelming support of the membership (and the political will of some, especially the east coast clubs who I assume have many members who have served as high ranking USGA officials), as well as the convenience and infrastructure to host a large group of spectators, media, and corporate entities. Revenues are also a huge part of the decisions, and I do think they factor in courses the players like as well.

 

Whether they choose not to return to certain courses because they felt the championship was lack luster or membership was upset due to the disruption the championship created is anyone's guess. I do think the PGA has taken the most risks with championship venues, particularly in the 80's-90's, but their choices over the past decade I believe have been more conservative with the exceptions of Whistling Straights and Kiawah.

 

Perhaps the only thing that really matters is what the competitors of these championships think. My guess is they are all excited to be a part of the event no matter where it is being held. I don't think any US Open qualifier was bummed last year about playing Chambers Bay... and I feel pretty safe saying that no player with their names on those trophies is disappointed they won at Kemper Lakes instead or Hazeltine instead of Winged Foot or Oakmont.

 

I certainly think the PGA and USGA could spread the love a little on both coasts to showcase more of our nation's great courses. I would love to see Riviera in major conditions again, and although it would probably never happen, I think players would love to see Spyglass Hill in major conditions. And who wouldn't want to see the best players in the world play Seminole for four days? You don't think the players would get jacked about that?!

 

If you actually spent the time to read my ENTIRE post, thanks!

[Guest]

Most overrated is a tough one. My thoughts...

 

1) I am not sure why but I am underwhelmed by Whistling Straights. It has a lot of bunkers and the broadcast team tends to spend 4 hours of airtime over 4 days reminding me.

 

2) It's hard to put Chambers Bay on this list because the USGA screwed up trying to trick the course up. That being said, I played the course in its second year and while it was nice I don't remember thinking, "this is a US Open venue."

 

3) I am flirting with putting Pebble Beach on this list, but I fear the crowd might hunt me down. Again this comes from playing the course a couple of times, and I do realize that the USGA tricks it up, but Pebble just doesn't jump out and scream US Open to me, or tough for that matter. It's fairly wide open and it's a second shot course. That being said it's the most popular dame at the ball and it certainly has the picturesque views.

 

4) Royal Troon is a bit of a snoozer for me. I too would enjoy it if they moved the Open across the Firth to Prestwick, though it will never happen. Prestwick is quirky with a lot of blind shots and pros want precision.

 

I dont really think that was the problem. The only problem that week was the greens. They have different grass on different greens and some of them had horrible quality. Players didnt complain about the course that much, it was the quality of the greens that was the problem and rightly so. They were horrible. Fix the greens and it a great course imo!

[Santiago Golf]

I've played Oak Hill in tournament conditions and man alive that course is a beast as well. WF as well. I think the world of majors could stand to bring in some new blood to show what else is out there. Players learn courses and it becomes target golf for them. PH #2's only defense to me is the domed greens but if they are soft and wet and the greens slow down it's not a tough track at all. Pebble is another I could see being in the overrated column because the greens are just crappy as all get out. No championship should ever be decided by a lucky bounce off crappy poa.

 

I played OHCC a few weeks after the PGA in 2013, and the Friday before the club championship. It was tough, but extremely fair. Back then I was about a 22 index, shot a 99 from the whites, and I think the differential was in the high-teens. Typical Donald Ross course, its all right there in front of you, go get it. I've played all of Ross' designs in the area, and OHCC is significantly better then all of them. The things you don't see on TV is how much up and down and subtle swings there are on the course. They all look straight away on TV, they are not. Balls you think should find the fairway, are on a slightly wrong line, or take a bounce into the rough. A well played shot is rewarded though, which is all you can ask for out of championship layout. That course was blessed with some great land to start with.

What other Ross courses are in the area?

 

Oakland Hills North

Detroit Golf Club

Rackham

Barton Hills

Dearborn CC

Warren Valley

Western Golf and CC

Franklin Hills

Gross Ile Golf and CC

[JD3]

I've played Oak Hill in tournament conditions and man alive that course is a beast as well. WF as well. I think the world of majors could stand to bring in some new blood to show what else is out there. Players learn courses and it becomes target golf for them. PH #2's only defense to me is the domed greens but if they are soft and wet and the greens slow down it's not a tough track at all. Pebble is another I could see being in the overrated column because the greens are just crappy as all get out. No championship should ever be decided by a lucky bounce off crappy poa.

 

I played OHCC a few weeks after the PGA in 2013, and the Friday before the club championship. It was tough, but extremely fair. Back then I was about a 22 index, shot a 99 from the whites, and I think the differential was in the high-teens. Typical Donald Ross course, its all right there in front of you, go get it. I've played all of Ross' designs in the area, and OHCC is significantly better then all of them. The things you don't see on TV is how much up and down and subtle swings there are on the course. They all look straight away on TV, they are not. Balls you think should find the fairway, are on a slightly wrong line, or take a bounce into the rough. A well played shot is rewarded though, which is all you can ask for out of championship layout. That course was blessed with some great land to start with.

What other Ross courses are in the area?

 

Oakland Hills North

Detroit Golf Club

Rackham

Barton Hills

Dearborn CC

Warren Valley

Western Golf and CC

Franklin Hills

Gross Ile Golf and CC

Country club of Buffalo too.

 

Played it once and though not tough enuf to be a major venue, still a fun little track nonetheless. Quarry par 3 hole is stunning

 

[bruinsPATSirish]

I think The Ocean Course is the most UNDERRATED major venue. That bad boy could host a US Open if they tipped it out, hit the gas on the greens, and let that paspallum rough grow up.

[Potatohead]

I would like to see some different courses than the usual stuff. The US Open a lot of the time is pretty boring, Chambers was different and I suppose next year will be different but most of the time it's par 70 and 7500+ yards, 22 yard wide fairways, greens bordering on ridiculous... It's boring. Pebble and Torrey are of course great courses but we see them so much already. I know it's likely for membership, logistical reasons, or they're simply too short but it would be pretty awesome to see a major at Cypress or Spyglass, Pine Valley, Sand Hills, Bandon, Shadow Creek...

[Skipperation]

Well it looks like at least on golfwrx The Old Course is likely the most underrated course on a major rotation!

 

Bobby Jones would probably sympathize with the view but I'm not sure Tiger would.

 

If you've made a comment on it either way can I recommend reading Alister Mackenzie's 'The Spirit of St Andrews' book if you haven't already. It's insightful and Interesting stuff.

 

This might also be of interest;

 

http://www.golfcours...es-in-the-world

 

It may be the case that in a strange way The Old Course is the most underrated course in the world....?!

 

-

 

I can't really speak authoritatively on the US courses but the majority of PGA courses don't inspire me and although some of the US Open venues look great the set-up is often a turn off.

 

Also interesting to note for all those Pinehurst bashers that Jack Nicklaus thinks it's the best course in the world from a design standpoint, though not his favourite to play on, that was before the restoration so would interesting to see if anything has changed since.

 

As far as Open venues go Birkdale, Lytham or Troon are probably the most 'overrated' though Troon did throw that tag abit this year with a few interesting changes being made but in general the quality of the golf far overshadowed the course and probably would have done on most courses. It didn't really matter where it was played, Stenson and Mickelson were just ridiculous. Prestwick would be far more fun but not going to happen in this day and age. Quick shout out to Dornoch too which would be a great venue. I'd say generally St Georges and The Old Course throw up the most interesting tournaments and Muirfield seems to sort the wheat from the chaff.

 

 

 

So all in all the 3 GOAT candidates disagree with most of what has been said in this thread.....