Most Over Rated Course on the Major Rotation

[knock it close]

Probably Torrey, I totally get why they use it though, tough, public, and west coast checks three boxes but is grossly overwhelmed by other US open venues.

[vitaminsteve]

Pebble Beach great course for the average golfer and a bucket list course. But with no wind it is a pitch and putt course for pros. As historic as it is to win a US Open at Pebble, the course is to short for todays game and majors. Let them play that At&t pro-am, but as hard as it is time might have passed for men's major golf.

A lot of courses can become "pitch & putts" with no wind, including pretty much all Open rota courses, Kiawah, Whistling, etc.

 

The last US Open at Pebble was won at E.

Other than Tiger's dominance in 2000, +2, -6, -6, -3, and E have won.

Straits is over 700 yds longer and Kiawah about the same. Huge difference playing a course that barely gets to 7000yds and one that is almost 7800yds.

[QMany]

For being a pitch & putt, Pebble has seemed to stand up pretty well (except Tiger's otherworldly performance).

[VNutz]

I don't understand the fascination with Congressional. I've never liked that course nor found its events all that compelling. Very few holes felt interesting while watching. Also never cared for Atlanta Athletic Club or Southern Hills, but neither seem to be on the regular or frequent rotation.

[knock it close]

I don't understand the fascination with Congressional. I've never liked that course nor found its events all that compelling. Very few holes felt interesting while watching. Also never cared for Atlanta Athletic Club or Southern Hills, but neither seem to be on the regular or frequent rotation.

I like Southern hills but agree on the other two

[CEPick]

Sawgrass. Just like every other Pete Dye course.

[SHIVAN]

Congressional. When Rory won the US Open there it was set up like a season opener on the Champions Tour.

 

That one is unfair, as was pointed out, there was something like 2.5" of rain that fell on Potomac, MD and surrounding areas. I will also tell you that from watching Rory hit drives that week (in person), no course, no where, was going to contain him. He was playing absolutely unconsciously. Just pegging it up, and drilling every shot.

[cdnglf]

Sawgrass. Just like every other Pete Dye course.

 

Uh oh, here come 500 posts arguing whether the Players is the fifth major or not.

[Jasonic]

St. Andrews for me, I mean I get the history aspect but its a pretty boring course.

 

It is far from boring to play.

 

The more one plays St Andrews, the more one comes to respect it. It looks boring on TV. So what? Many of the very best players have come to recognize its charm and character.

 

But it takes more than a couple rounds for most.

Ive never played it or visited it but I think it id enjoy it a lot. I see a lot of variety and interesting shot choices.

 

Off top of my head, 1 has the target golf.kind of approach with the creek abutting the putting surface, 17 road hole is unique as memorable and challenging as you'll find anywhere, and I like the drivable 18th tee too with the valley of sin.

 

Unless you've been there in person it's hard to explain the full appeal. The greens are massive and the undulations are not represented at all on tv. It looks like a giant put his hands on either side of the property and squished it to half the original size. It's quite surprising. I played it a few times and really loved it more every time. Weather is a huge factor as well.

[vitaminsteve]

For being a pitch & putt, Pebble has seemed to stand up pretty well (except Tiger's otherworldly performance).

Not at the AT&T they kill that course. But I want to change my mind, bigger is always better (my wife says that also, for another time) a major at Pebble gives everyone a chance

[CEPick]

Sawgrass. Just like every other Pete Dye course.

 

Uh oh, here come 500 posts arguing whether the Players is the fifth major or not.

Stirring the pot!

[Jasonic]

Sawgrass. Just like every other Pete Dye course.

 

Uh oh, here come 500 posts arguing whether the Players is the fifth major or not.

Stirring the pot!

 

It's not. ?

[2over]

Any PGA champ course.

 

St. Andrews is awesome, totally different style of golf. Can't judge until you've played it. But that's just my opinion :)

 

If St Andrews was in the middle of Iowa, they'd be lucky to get $7 for greens fees because of the course conditions. IMO

 

 

Greg

 

I've played the Old Course about once a decade since 1983--I've seen it in rough shape, but most of my rounds it has been in fine condition, though maybe I've been lucky with my timing. I think dinging a course for conditioning is not quite fair. I've seen Pinehurst #2 (an undeniably wonderful golf course) in much worse shape than the Old Course at times over the last 20 years (lately it's been fantastic though). The Old Course, like Pinehurst #2 is a great layout, makes you think, makes you play a variety of shots. A lot of top players list the Old Course in their top 10 like Tom Watson, Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus. It's not for nothing the OC is acclaimed.

 

I think Troon has to be a contender for the "over-rated". Every hole looks the same, pretty straight, flat, and not terribly long. Without a gale force wind it is not a great test of golf.

[pquarta1]

When the Ryder Cup is played at Whistling Straits and it is chilly and windy, the course will be difficult. I've played it on 40mph winds and 45 degrees in the spring and on perfect days in August and Early September. It is at least 5 shots harder, if not more, with the former conditions. It has produced great champions, too.

 

Not a fan of Congressional for a major.

[Obee]

Any PGA champ course.

 

St. Andrews is awesome, totally different style of golf. Can't judge until you've played it. But that's just my opinion :)

 

If St Andrews was in the middle of Iowa, they'd be lucky to get $7 for greens fees because of the course conditions. IMO

 

 

Greg

 

Curious if you have played it. I played it two summers ago, and it was in excellent condition for a links.

 

Give me firm, fast, brownish links over our over-watered, over-fertilized courses any day.

 

Golf is more fun when you can use the ground or the air to attack your target.

 

To each his own, though, of course.

[philly2kuk]

Any PGA champ course.

 

St. Andrews is awesome, totally different style of golf. Can't judge until you've played it. But that's just my opinion :)

 

If St Andrews was in the middle of Iowa, they'd be lucky to get $7 for greens fees because of the course conditions. IMO

 

 

Greg

 

Can't quite read your tone but that sounds like an incredibly ignorant comment . Explain to me how you think the old course is in poor condition ?

 

I walked all 18 holes the Sunday before the Scottish Open (the course was closed so I walked it and took photos of each hole) and there was at least 100+ divots per every fairway and the greens were in really bad shape. Lots of bare ground in play. It looked very much like a very abused muni. So the fact that I was there recently, walked the course and have been in the golf business for 48 years (34 as a PGA Golf professional), I think it was based on eye witnessed fact and not so much an "incredibly ignorant comment".

 

But I did say it was my opinion. The first time Sam Snead saw St Andrews he said "we would't even grow cow beets on land that looked like this place"

 

 

Greg

 

It's funny, I'm in St. Andrews right now and they're preparing for the dunhill links. The course is in fantastic condition. Yes, if there's no wind the course is a joke (I had the pleasure of playing here daily for 5 years) but otherwise most people struggle to play to their handicap. The only time I see the course in a bad condition is right after hosting a tournament of some description and they host a lot of amateur tournaments too.

 

Overrated doesn't necessarily mean easy either. I find Troon an overrated course and also Carnoustie. The latter is a tough course (I've played it) but doesn't seem to produce interesting Open championships to me. Despite being tough, I also didn't enjoy playing it. I just found it very monotonous.

[JD3]

Now that you mention it, carnoustie is more like a US Open course

[knock it close]

For being a pitch & putt, Pebble has seemed to stand up pretty well (except Tiger's otherworldly performance).

Not at the AT&T they kill that course. But I want to change my mind, bigger is always better (my wife says that also, for another time) a major at Pebble gives everyone a chance

Pebble has consistently crowned good to great champions in majors.

[philly2kuk]

Now that you mention it, carnoustie is more like a US Open course

 

They make it too tough in my opinion. I watch the US open to see the players tortured, I watch the Open to see them adapt to links golf and our completely changeable British weather.

[Jwin323]

Valhalla

[Dave230]

People calling Pebble Beach too short to be a major is a classic case of not looking behind the numbers. It was probably the same people that said Merion would be easy for the pros at under 7000 yards.

 

For example, the 7th hole plays 100 yards but still is not an easy hole. Probably plays as hard as some holes 70-80 yards longer especially in the wind. Then several of the par 4s around 400 yards or lower aren't straight forward straight ahead doglegs, many are tight par 4s with doglegs and other features reducing distances and making it play a lot longer than the yardage.

 

Pebble Beach is more than enough of a challenge for the pros. 2010 U.S. Open was an excellent tournament.

[Blindman]

Can't remember name, that crappy place where they had to Mark greens with paint as they were patchy like camouflage.

 

Chambers bay ? Old mine or something ?

 

Rancid looking place

 

St Andrews ... Although they seem to have a good tournament every time

Ever been there ?

[Hankshank]

First of all - Old Course. It IS kind of funny. Played it, and a lot of holes are like... what? And it seems like top pro's feet the same thing. But the feeling of playing there is absolutely orgasmic, the views, the holes you recognize. And 14-18 are great finishing holes.

 

Anyhow, poor courses forThe Open, to watch on TV : Royal Liverpool and Royal Lytham ain't too exciting.

 

On the other side, those "bunch-of-long-par-four-holes-all-the-same" courses, like Oakmont and Pinehurst. Chambers Bay was a truly spectacular course but with broccoli greens.

.

[stinger_gc]

Hazeltine is just a bunch of long par 4s and par 5s not bad just extremly boring.

[Dave230]

On the other side, those "bunch-of-long-par-four-holes-all-the-same" courses, like Oakmont and Pinehurst. Chambers Bay was a truly spectacular course but with broccoli greens.

 

Chambers Bay looked nice on the postcard and what it was supposed to look like:

 

 

The reality was:

 

 

In truth, that's partly the organisers fault. The USGA are so determined to keep score near par that they dried it out to a point where it stayed near par but aesthetically dreadful. If Chambers Bay was a PGA course and they weren't afraid of a -15 winner, then it might be a different story.

[JD3]

I honestly thought chambers looked good as a design and the baked out conditions too. Maybe if I played them id feel different but imo it looked a lot better than whistling straits

[Blindman]

On the other side, those "bunch-of-long-par-four-holes-all-the-same" courses, like Oakmont and Pinehurst. Chambers Bay was a truly spectacular course but with broccoli greens.

 

Chambers Bay looked nice on the postcard and what it was supposed to look like:

 

 

The reality was:

 

 

In truth, that's partly the organisers fault. The USGA are so determined to keep score near par that they dried it out to a point where it stayed near par but aesthetically dreadful. If Chambers Bay was a PGA course and they weren't afraid of a -15 winner, then it might be a different story.

First picture is their tinder account pic.

 

The second is the actual pic, they'd never get a ride looking like that :D

[Andrew Bond of Glencoe]

Throwing St Andrews under the bus is quite the cheap shot. Insignificant? Most of the great courses in the United States have holes that were copied from the Old Course. As a matter of fact a course that sits on most golfers bucket list, Augusta National was Alister Mackenzie's tribute to the Old Course.

 

The problem with most golfers is that they don't give a crap about the history of the game. History for most golfers ends somewhere around Hogan and Palmer.

 

I have played the Old Course and it is stunning. It is certainly on my list of courses that I could play everyday and never grow tired from.

 

A PGA Pro mentioned that he walked the course and mentioned its condition. A couple of thoughts...walking a course and playing a course are two different things. You quote Sam Snead when he first saw the course (which is a famous quote) but years later he reflected on its beauty in its design. It's such a terrible course which is probably why it has more copied holes than any course in the world. He also mentioned divots in the fairways, well it gets more play than your hometown muni. In saying that, I have played it several times in July (busy month) and have never thought the course to be in poor shape.

 

Is it obsolete for the Open? No. Why, because the best golfer wins. It's not a US Open, it's not a torture chamber. The lowest score wins and winning there is winning where golf began (well not really that happened at Leith Links but that's a different story).

[Andrew Bond of Glencoe]

Any PGA champ course.

 

St. Andrews is awesome, totally different style of golf. Can't judge until you've played it. But that's just my opinion :)

 

If St Andrews was in the middle of Iowa, they'd be lucky to get $7 for greens fees because of the course conditions. IMO

 

 

Greg

 

Greg, as someone who was born and raised in Iowa I say this with respect...shhhhh! You are making us look bad.

 

I have played every good course in Iowa and that is all you have. Harvestor is a very good course andi it's not in the ballpark of the Old Course or any other major championship venue and if you don't see that bless your heart.

 

I don't mean to come down hard on you but the Iowa pride is misplaced here. I come back to Iowa for a month a year and play golf with my friends and family and there isn't one course I really miss when I think about it.

 

The best course in your proximity (public mind you) is likely to be Wild Horse Golf Club and that is all the way in Gothenburg, NE. Now if you put that course on the ocean you would have a Top 10 course and perhaps an argument. Let's leave Harvestor out of it:)

[glenametz]

I've played Oak Hill in tournament conditions and man alive that course is a beast as well. WF as well. I think the world of majors could stand to bring in some new blood to show what else is out there. Players learn courses and it becomes target golf for them. PH #2's only defense to me is the domed greens but if they are soft and wet and the greens slow down it's not a tough track at all. Pebble is another I could see being in the overrated column because the greens are just crappy as all get out. No championship should ever be decided by a lucky bounce off crappy poa.

 

I played OHCC a few weeks after the PGA in 2013, and the Friday before the club championship. It was tough, but extremely fair. Back then I was about a 22 index, shot a 99 from the whites, and I think the differential was in the high-teens. Typical Donald Ross course, its all right there in front of you, go get it. I've played all of Ross' designs in the area, and OHCC is significantly better then all of them. The things you don't see on TV is how much up and down and subtle swings there are on the course. They all look straight away on TV, they are not. Balls you think should find the fairway, are on a slightly wrong line, or take a bounce into the rough. A well played shot is rewarded though, which is all you can ask for out of championship layout. That course was blessed with some great land to start with.