The 2016-2017 NBA basketball thread

[xxio]

That's what happens when you allow a financial penalty for going over the cap. Teams figure they can probably pay for the penalties with what they make in tickets and merchandise.

 

It has to be a harder cap than what it is/will be.

 

However the Superteams also make the regular season more exciting, I mean more profitable. People buy their games on their apps in bulk. The potential for ads and pop ups during Warriors games is huge. I played with different guys who were streaming GSW games on their phones during our entire rounds on the course. Regular season games.

 

Just like golf, tech is making a difference how sports are run.

[devinh821]

Is Ball really gonna end up in LA? I love the kid. Just can't stand his dad.

 

Just watched him on skip and Shannon and he's actually calmed down a little. Some of his statements about himself just drive me crazy.

 

And those shoes are dope. Just not for 495. 95 bucks and they would be the hottest shoe on the market.

 

[CHuntsman]

Is Ball really gonna end up in LA? I love the kid. Just can't stand his dad.

 

Just watched him on skip and Shannon and he's actually calmed down a little. Some of his statements about himself just drive me crazy.

 

And those shoes are dope. Just not for 495. 95 bucks and they would be the hottest shoe on the market.

 

Listen to today's interview on the Colin Cowturd show, he went all in on that lady for no reason. I hope the Lakers trade the 2nd pick to the Pacers for Paul George and he ends up in Indiana. As far as the shoes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[tocino]

Is Ball really gonna end up in LA? I love the kid. Just can't stand his dad.

 

Just watched him on skip and Shannon and he's actually calmed down a little. Some of his statements about himself just drive me crazy.

 

And those shoes are dope. Just not for 495. 95 bucks and they would be the hottest shoe on the market.

 

Just buy a pair of kobe 11's. They look eerily similar and cost only a quarter of what the zo2's do.

 

I think the ball family really messed this up by only wanting to work out for the lakers. I heard a local sports take radio show talk about the situation and if the lakers really wanted him (and to be honest, I would trade that pick for PG in a heartbeat), then if I were the Celtics I would threaten to draft lonzo unless the lakers gave them something in return (draft picks, money, etc...). The former san diego chargers did the same thing when they drafted eli manning after the manning family stated they would NOT be going to san diego. That turned into a couple extra picks from the giants and they still got their franchise qb with rivers.

[scratchswinger]

Is Ball really gonna end up in LA? I love the kid. Just can't stand his dad.

 

Just watched him on skip and Shannon and he's actually calmed down a little. Some of his statements about himself just drive me crazy.

 

And those shoes are dope. Just not for 495. 95 bucks and they would be the hottest shoe on the market.

 

Just buy a pair of kobe 11's. They look eerily similar and cost only a quarter of what the zo2's do.

 

I think the ball family really messed this up by only wanting to work out for the lakers. I heard a local sports take radio show talk about the situation and if the lakers really wanted him (and to be honest, I would trade that pick for PG in a heartbeat), then if I were the Celtics I would threaten to draft lonzo unless the lakers gave them something in return (draft picks, money, etc...). The former san diego chargers did the same thing when they drafted eli manning after the manning family stated they would NOT be going to san diego. That turned into a couple extra picks from the giants and they still got their franchise qb with rivers.

 

I don't think that will work.... What is Boston going to do with him? I don't see how Ball and IT would work when both are ball dominate PG's. The reason that Flutz works in Boston and Ball works in LA is because Flutz and D'Angello are basically hybrid 1/2s so they can play with or without the ball. "if" Boston were to draft Ball then so be it and the Lakers take Flutz and trade him or other assets to get an established player. I can't see any situation where the Lakers are willing to give up assets for any one of these guys when there is no clear no. 1 player on the board. Boston wants to draft the best player to help them win, that is more than likely Flutz, what if they gamble like suggested and LA doesn't take the bait?

 

Also I don't think the Lakers should give up any assets for PG, chances are they can sign up outright next summer. If not him they can get someone, the front office they now have in place and the assets at hand will give LA an advantage in FA talks that they have not had in a number of years.

[MtlJeff]

Fultz to me is the #1. he has everything, can shoot, handle, pass, is big and athletic. He's a point guard for the modern game designed in a lab. As has been said, surround him with shooting and he'll live in the lane.

 

Ball is a ridiculous passer and can shoot. But his midrange game is literally non existent right now. He should be a very good player too, but it's hard to be a full blown superstar without creating shots for yourself against top defence. Not saying it won't happen. I'd just be more comfortable with Fultz

[MtlJeff]

I'd like to see Ball in Philly with Ben Simmons. That would be something to watch but the Lakers will take him

 

I'm also a big deAaron Fox fan. A big point guard who can defend like him and cares about defending like him is going to be a great asset as long as he can shoot a bit. I think Philly should take him at #3. If Embiid is healthy ever he and Fox are great bookends for their defence, and they need a guard.

[scratchswinger]

The concern with Flutz has to be his intangibles and leadership, as far as numbers he will get his. When you are the best player in College your team should win more than 9 games. The exact opposite can be said about Ball, he took UCLA deep and won 35 games. That teams second best player "might" make an NBA roster if lucky. Ball reminds me a lot of Jason Kid. I don't think you can go wrong with either of them. Flutz can take over a game, Ball can lead a franchise.

[MtlJeff]

It's hard to gauge because so many top guys go to the big schools like Kentucky. Not a ton of data points, Ben Simmons would be another guy who had a bad college team so we'll see with him too. But there's something to be said for winning for sure. Especially when you win while being saddled with slow, unathletic, white players who hold your team back in key games

[scratchswinger]

That's funny.... as bad as LSU was they won more than twice the games that Washington won.

[Peanut191]

That's funny.... as bad as LSU was they won more than twice the games that Washington won.

 

That LSU team had a lot of talent. Just looked to me like they weren't coached very well. With the talent they had that year, someone like a coach K could have probably won a championship, or at least made a deep run in the tournament.

[BoogieThumper]

Is Ball really gonna end up in LA? I love the kid. Just can't stand his dad.

 

Just watched him on skip and Shannon and he's actually calmed down a little. Some of his statements about himself just drive me crazy.

 

And those shoes are dope. Just not for 495. 95 bucks and they would be the hottest shoe on the market.

 

Just buy a pair of kobe 11's. They look eerily similar and cost only a quarter of what the zo2's do.

 

I think the ball family really messed this up by only wanting to work out for the lakers. I heard a local sports take radio show talk about the situation and if the lakers really wanted him (and to be honest, I would trade that pick for PG in a heartbeat), then if I were the Celtics I would threaten to draft lonzo unless the lakers gave them something in return (draft picks, money, etc...). The former san diego chargers did the same thing when they drafted eli manning after the manning family stated they would NOT be going to san diego. That turned into a couple extra picks from the giants and they still got their franchise qb with rivers.

95.7 the Game, I heard that same broadcast driving to work the other day

[F171615]

This is hilarious:

 

 

I think this is my favorite part of the playoffs so far: SA Spurs fans suing ZaZa. I was talking to a buddy of mine who's a Spurs fan, and he says that this is actually just a subtle way to get rid of Aldridge. Aldridge has been so disappointing that Spurs fans are hating on him, and then they could apply this lawsuit to him to get him off the team.

[MtlJeff]

I don't really have an issue with the All-NBA teams. There's a lot of guys

 

In a vacuum i probably would take Klay Thompson over Demar Derozan if i were starting a team just for his shooting and defense. But it's really tough to sort through these things in terms of "value" and all that jazz. I do probably agree that Klay is better

 

I would definitely take John Wall over Isaiah but Thomas had a great year too. And the criteria isn't "if you were building a team"

 

The biggest "snub" might have been Karl Towns and not Hayward, George or Thompson, as has been pointed out. I would guess that if given a lie detector the Clippers would have gladly swapped the two guys this season

[WLSTR]

Finals match is set

[scratchswinger]

Finals match is set

 

You could have posted this in July of last year and nobody would have debated it other than Jeff claiming that Toronto is just a trade away.

[pinhigh27]

53-22

[scratchswinger]

Why even finish these two series? The only thing that could happen would be an injury. Love seeing Boston fans sad though.

[MtlJeff]

Hard to feel bad for Boston, they will end up with Markelle Fultz in the draft and probably a 50-50 shot at Gordon Hayward. These are both good things since i think Fultz's dad is OK with Markelle playing with white players

[scratchswinger]

They should draft Flutz and trade IT before his contract comes up and while his value is high.

[Peanut191]

They should draft Flutz and trade IT before his contract comes up and while his value is high.

 

That would probably be good for Celtics long term, but who's gonna score for them in the meantime?

[scratchswinger]

Haven't watched a 4th quarter yet in the conference finals.

[pinhigh27]

They should draft Flutz and trade IT before his contract comes up and while his value is high.

 

I don't get the whole "blow the team up, get rid of IT" philosophy so many seem to be on board with. This is a good team. No matter what they do they are not going to beat the cavs in short term so I don't see why you mess with a pretty good thing. I think GSW got worse trying to improve when they had essentially a perfect team. boston isn't perfect but I don't see the spurs or houston blowing up their teams to try to compete with GS.

 

IT is a really good player. Like top 15 nba player.

 

I don't see how fultz is the answer either. You need a defensive guard to pair with IT, neither fultz nor ball will do it. Bradley is perfect. I'd get a forward. Hayward would be really good. They need to plan for 2-3 years down the road. They will never win east while lebron is still near prime.

[MtlJeff]

They should draft Flutz and trade IT before his contract comes up and while his value is high.

 

I don't get the whole "blow the team up, get rid of IT" philosophy so many seem to be on board with. This is a good team. No matter what they do they are not going to beat the cavs in short term so I don't see why you mess with a pretty good thing. I think GSW got worse trying to improve when they had essentially a perfect team. boston isn't perfect but I don't see the spurs or houston blowing up their teams to try to compete with GS.

 

IT is a really good player. Like top 15 nba player.

 

I don't see how fultz is the answer either. You need a defensive guard to pair with IT, neither fultz nor ball will do it. Bradley is perfect. I'd get a forward. Hayward would be really good. They need to plan for 2-3 years down the road. They will never win east while lebron is still near prime.

 

Some pretty knowledgeable people have Fultz as the clear #1 , with a very good player ceiling and superstar potential. Scratch has pointed out the one flaw , in that his team lost a lot in college so we'll see how that translates. But he is a competent defender already, and has everything (literally everything) you want in an offensive point guard in the modern era. He shoots 40% from 3, he has great hesitation dribbles, he's very athletic, he's big, he's a good passer.

 

Teams envision putting shooters around him and having him play a Harden-type role.

 

Boston is taking him for sure. You don't pass on him because of fit. It reminds me of the story of when the Portland GM told Chuck Daly that they were going to pass on Michael Jordon because they "needed a center" and Daly yelled at him "So play him at center!!!"....LOL

 

I know where you are coming from, but you don't pass on Fultz because of Avery Bradley. I think Thomas is great, but there's not a GM in the league who would take even Thomas himself over Fultz right now.

 

I agree with keeping Thomas there while Fultz develops, he's big enough to play off the ball a bit. And you can move some other guys like Bradley or Smart, especially if you sign Hayward since they won't be able to pay Smart

[pinhigh27]

wait what? you're telling me you would trade thomas straight up for fultz? I don't think there's a GM in the league that would do that....

 

I'm not saying take someone else. I'm saying trade the pick

[MtlJeff]

wait what? you're telling me you would trade thomas straight up for fultz? I don't think there's a GM in the league that would do that....

 

I'm not saying take someone else. I'm saying trade the pick

 

The #1 pick in this year's draft has more value than Isaiah Thomas yes. It's not a knock on Thomas who is very good obviously. This year's pick is just very valuable, i mean you can judge for yourself based on the fact that Boston wouldn't trade it for Paul George or Jimmy Butler.

 

Fultz is generally considered to be a tier below the Anthony Davis level "sure thing"...but not too much below. For example i've heard pretty good scouts say he's definitely a better prospect than Kyrie or John Wall were. You are basically getting the Karl Towns of point guards

 

Maybe 4-5 years ago i got into an argument in our NBA thread because i wrote that the #1 pick in that year's draft (Anthony Davis) had more value than Lamarcus Aldridge. That was the exact argument, some may even remember. Guy told me i was nuts. Before the draft one of the big draft experts told Bill SImmons that pick was untradeable for anyone other than Lebron James or Kevin Durant. I get it that it seems crazy that a pick would be ranked that higher, but it doesn't seem crazy now. Anthony Davis is a 1st team all NBA center and Aldridge is 32-33 and not the same player he once was. And Davis probably surpassed him by his third season in the league

 

Boston would absolutely pick Fultz over Thomas if they had to make that choice

[scratchswinger]

The problem with Thomas is that he will be eligible for a mega contract, no way he is good enough to be the best player on a championship team. So if you don't want to pay him 200 mil (and I wouldn't) then you trade him while his stock is high. Boston needs rebounding bad, they should hit up Indiana for Myles Turner or something like that (obviously not straight up). Indiana might be despret to try and add some players to keep PG13.

[scratchswinger]

They should draft Flutz and trade IT before his contract comes up and while his value is high.

 

I don't get the whole "blow the team up, get rid of IT" philosophy so many seem to be on board with. This is a good team. No matter what they do they are not going to beat the cavs in short term so I don't see why you mess with a pretty good thing. I think GSW got worse trying to improve when they had essentially a perfect team. boston isn't perfect but I don't see the spurs or houston blowing up their teams to try to compete with GS.

 

IT is a really good player. Like top 15 nba player.

 

I don't see how fultz is the answer either. You need a defensive guard to pair with IT, neither fultz nor ball will do it. Bradley is perfect. I'd get a forward. Hayward would be really good. They need to plan for 2-3 years down the road. They will never win east while lebron is still near prime.

 

Some pretty knowledgeable people have Fultz as the clear #1 , with a very good player ceiling and superstar potential. Scratch has pointed out the one flaw , in that his team lost a lot in college so we'll see how that translates. But he is a competent defender already, and has everything (literally everything) you want in an offensive point guard in the modern era. He shoots 40% from 3, he has great hesitation dribbles, he's very athletic, he's big, he's a good passer.

 

Teams envision putting shooters around him and having him play a Harden-type role.

 

Boston is taking him for sure. You don't pass on him because of fit. It reminds me of the story of when the Portland GM told Chuck Daly that they were going to pass on Michael Jordon because they "needed a center" and Daly yelled at him "So play him at center!!!"....LOL

 

I know where you are coming from, but you don't pass on Fultz because of Avery Bradley. I think Thomas is great, but there's not a GM in the league who would take even Thomas himself over Fultz right now.

 

I agree with keeping Thomas there while Fultz develops, he's big enough to play off the ball a bit. And you can move some other guys like Bradley or Smart, especially if you sign Hayward since they won't be able to pay Smart

 

This is why people saying Boston is going to strong arm the Lakers and threaten to take Ball is laughable. Magic would call that bluff in a heartbeat.

[MtlJeff]

^^^ same issue with Kyle Lowry the Raptors have now.

 

He's not worth the contract but he's the best player on the team. Raptors are going to have like 75M a year commited to a backcourt that isn't even the best in their own conference.

 

I wouldn't want Thomas at 32-33 for 40M. Though that's probably better than Kyle Lowry at 36

[sefus12]

Fultz to me is the #1. he has everything, can shoot, handle, pass, is big and athletic. He's a point guard for the modern game designed in a lab. As has been said, surround him with shooting and he'll live in the lane.

 

Ball is a ridiculous passer and can shoot. But his midrange game is literally non existent right now. He should be a very good player too, but it's hard to be a full blown superstar without creating shots for yourself against top defence. Not saying it won't happen. I'd just be more comfortable with Fultz

They should draft Flutz and trade IT before his contract comes up and while his value is high.

 

I don't get the whole "blow the team up, get rid of IT" philosophy so many seem to be on board with. This is a good team. No matter what they do they are not going to beat the cavs in short term so I don't see why you mess with a pretty good thing. I think GSW got worse trying to improve when they had essentially a perfect team. boston isn't perfect but I don't see the spurs or houston blowing up their teams to try to compete with GS.

 

IT is a really good player. Like top 15 nba player.

 

I don't see how fultz is the answer either. You need a defensive guard to pair with IT, neither fultz nor ball will do it. Bradley is perfect. I'd get a forward. Hayward would be really good. They need to plan for 2-3 years down the road. They will never win east while lebron is still near prime.

 

Some pretty knowledgeable people have Fultz as the clear #1 , with a very good player ceiling and superstar potential. Scratch has pointed out the one flaw , in that his team lost a lot in college so we'll see how that translates. But he is a competent defender already, and has everything (literally everything) you want in an offensive point guard in the modern era. He shoots 40% from 3, he has great hesitation dribbles, he's very athletic, he's big, he's a good passer.

 

Teams envision putting shooters around him and having him play a Harden-type role.

 

Boston is taking him for sure. You don't pass on him because of fit. It reminds me of the story of when the Portland GM told Chuck Daly that they were going to pass on Michael Jordon because they "needed a center" and Daly yelled at him "So play him at center!!!"....LOL

 

I know where you are coming from, but you don't pass on Fultz because of Avery Bradley. I think Thomas is great, but there's not a GM in the league who would take even Thomas himself over Fultz right now.

 

I agree with keeping Thomas there while Fultz develops, he's big enough to play off the ball a bit. And you can move some other guys like Bradley or Smart, especially if you sign Hayward since they won't be able to pay Smart

 

This is why people saying Boston is going to strong arm the Lakers and threaten to take Ball is laughable. Magic would call that bluff in a heartbeat.

 

Fox will end up being a better PG than Ball. I don't see Ball getting that shot off in the NBA, not to mention his lack of D. Put Fox on a team with shooters and his speed/defense will turn him into a menace out there.