SuperSpeed Golf training system

[jestein1679]

5 hours ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

Today was very interesting. I was rested but don’t think that was the difference. Made a setup change and my speed jumped 4mph on max with green stick. You’re exactly right… I think the point of the sticks is to experiment and find where the speed is. I think the launch monitor to track speeds is a must for success. You can see in real time what works and what doesn’t. I think we all have a lot of speed left on the table and the sticks help you find it and not really to develop it. 
 

127 green, 123 blue, 113 red

Now you’re doing it!  My speed has tracked well with the sticks.  So if I gained a couple mph with the sticks, I generally gained a couple with the driver.  So congrats your probably faster already.  
 

Mix in some 1x a week 20 ball all out driver sessions with a radar with no concern where the ball goes.  Only concern club or ball speed.  
 

Everytime you do speed you try to break your prior max (you won’t.).  Be a little careful on volume.  You don’t need to be doing speed work too much or too often.  2-3x a week max. Ideally one with a ball and club.  You don’t need a ton of swings each session either.  
 

You can look at other sports.  Pitchers trying to increase velocity wouldn’t go out and throw 100 pitches max velocity every day.  Same goes for you.  A couple times a week with the sticks.  One time a week with a club.  25-50 swings all out with a radar and done.  You’ll build it over time.

[Brooks_Cupcake]

On 12/20/2022 at 9:21 AM, FormerBigDaddy said:

Today was very interesting. I was rested but don’t think that was the difference. Made a setup change and my speed jumped 4mph on max with green stick. You’re exactly right… I think the point of the sticks is to experiment and find where the speed is. I think the launch monitor to track speeds is a must for success. You can see in real time what works and what doesn’t. I think we all have a lot of speed left on the table and the sticks help you find it and not really to develop it. 
 

127 green, 123 blue, 113 red

can you share what you changed in your setup?

[AceRR]

On 12/7/2022 at 8:54 PM, jestein1679 said:

it’s a pretty simple program.  2-3x a week.   Swing the sticks as fast as you can using a monitor for feedback.   Do not think about technique at all.  Big swings.  Step swings. Matt Wolff swings.  The sole goal is to see if you can get a higher number on the monitor. Whatever you need to do to obtain that.  Keep a chart of your fastest swings with each stick.  Try and beat your max every time you do it.

 

 Ignore the left handed swings.  They’re a waste of time.  
 

Don’t overthink the training schedule. Is it ideal, maybe not.   It won’t prevent you from gaining speed.  You’ll easily gain 5mph if you stick with it in 8 weeks.  Try to mix in some max out sessions at the range with no concern where the ball goes ideally.  
 

If you do it right you’ll have a lot of fun with it.  

nice! what was your speed before the training? And I assume this is showing hitting a golf ball with the driver

[Jim53]

I am old and got to 120 on the radar, only  downside was the back could not take the stress. Be careful with this program, it will hurt you if you are not young and durable.

[jestein1679]

On 12/25/2022 at 8:36 AM, AceRR said:

nice! what was your speed before the training? And I assume this is showing hitting a golf ball with the driver

 

My avg. ball speed when I started was 160 mph / chs 108.  I have had the sticks for about 2.5 years and while I used it off and on, I didn't really use it consistently or smartly until about 14 months ago.  I've been pretty consistent in that time frame and have coupled it with regular gym work as well.  Currently, I only use the sticks about 1-2 times a week, but I do speed work at the range too with a driver and ball.  I've enjoyed golf more, become way more confident with my driver, gotten stronger, and dropped about 2 - 2.5 strokes handicap solely through the process of trying to gain speed.  

 

The screenshot is an actual golf ball, although that was my personal best with regards to ball speed.  I avg. about 171 ball speed / chs 116.  I have been hitting quite a few more 174-175 mph ball speeds recently though in my practice sessions then I have seen previously.

[Rbsiedsc]

26 minutes ago, jestein1679 said:

 

My avg. ball speed when I started was 160 mph / chs 108.  I have had the sticks for about 2.5 years and while I used it off and on, I didn't really use it consistently or smartly until about 14 months ago.  I've been pretty consistent in that time frame and have coupled it with regular gym work as well.  Currently, I only use the sticks about 1-2 times a week, but I do speed work at the range too with a driver and ball.  I've enjoyed golf more, become way more confident with my driver, gotten stronger, and dropped about 2 - 2.5 strokes handicap solely through the process of trying to gain speed.  

 

The screenshot is an actual golf ball, although that was my personal best with regards to ball speed.  I avg. about 171 ball speed / chs 116.  I have been hitting quite a few more 174-175 mph ball speeds recently though in my practice sessions then I have seen previously.

Nice work. I was at the range today, granted a day after speed training and the gym and I topped out at 109 and had several +160 ball speed. Did you also have to focus on going all out with driver or did it come naturally? Maybe I should expect my gains to peak in the summer when I’m not lifting as hard and my focus is total speed

[drtstandy]

On 12/7/2022 at 10:15 AM, FormerBigDaddy said:

This is actually a pretty big concern for me.  I lift 5 days a week, monday through friday, early in the morning before work.  I don't really have the time to lifts after work so I'm not exactly sure how and when I'm going to fit in the speed training.  Obviously I can do speed work in the evenings but there's going to be some overlapping of days where I have to do both on the same day in order to do the program.

 

M/W/F I do a total body lift and Tues/Thurs I do arms and core with some golf specific rotational and anti-rotational movements.  With that said I've been doing this routine for awhile not and I don't really feel sore or fatigued after or later in the day.  I figured I could do 1 of my speed training sessions on the weekend when I don't work out but there's no avoiding the other 2 days overlapping days a work out. I do work out early enough that I could potentially do my speed training in an empty room at my gym directly after my workout but not sure that's the best idea as I won't exactly be rested at all for it.  Hoping by the evenings I can be rested enough to not hinder the speed training.

 

I'll jump in a little here. I am a biomechanics professor doing a lot of research out of my lab related to speed training. I always revert to letting the radar be your guide in terms of when to do your speed training. Individuals are so different related to strength, mobility, speed, training history etc... I have worked with players who do the speed training early on before any strength training for the day after a good warm up and have great success. I have had players do it, as some have mentioned, as a contrast training in their own workout and have had success. Some do it later on in the day after strength training and see great speeds, the idea is use the radar to guide when is the best time for you to do the training. The goal for speed training is to make those radar numbers go as high as possible. 

 

I might also suggest that you will have to pick emphasis on speed or strength. There is a lot of great research to support that to maintain strength, you don't need as much time spent strength training. So if in the process of gaining speed you find that your speeds aren't increasing, it may be worth it to, at least for a period of time, cut back a little on the strength and make speed training the emphasis. 

[drtstandy]

22 hours ago, Rbsiedsc said:

Nice work. I was at the range today, granted a day after speed training and the gym and I topped out at 109 and had several +160 ball speed. Did you also have to focus on going all out with driver or did it come naturally? Maybe I should expect my gains to peak in the summer when I’m not lifting as hard and my focus is total speed

I'd agree again with some other stuff that has been said. I think the SuperSpeed system takes care of a lot of the inhibition to swing fast, but I also think doing some of your work with drivers and balls is good. Not all of your work, but some of it. I also love to actually take the PRGR out on the course for myself or with other players and see how the on course speed is coming along compared to range speed. My goal is to always get those numbers as close as possible so that players aren't gaining a bunch of speed through training, but then leaving it in the tank because they are worried about the driver and ball. The on course radar can really help see if you are doing that out on the course!

[Rbsiedsc]

12 minutes ago, drtstandy said:

 

I'll jump in a little here. I am a biomechanics professor doing a lot of research out of my lab related to speed training. I always revert to letting the radar be your guide in terms of when to do your speed training. Individuals are so different related to strength, mobility, speed, training history etc... I have worked with players who do the speed training early on before any strength training for the day after a good warm up and have great success. I have had players do it, as some have mentioned, as a contrast training in their own workout and have had success. Some do it later on in the day after strength training and see great speeds, the idea is use the radar to guide when is the best time for you to do the training. The goal for speed training is to make those radar numbers go as high as possible. 

 

I might also suggest that you will have to pick emphasis on speed or strength. There is a lot of great research to support that to maintain strength, you don't need as much time spent strength training. So if in the process of gaining speed you find that your speeds aren't increasing, it may be worth it to, at least for a period of time, cut back a little on the strength and make speed training the emphasis. 

Ok so a question on this. I am 3 months into a fit for golf circuit (off-season training) and starting the winter strength for the next three months. These are big muscle workouts near to failure at heavy weight. I also am doing speed training during this time. I already know I may not see huge gains but would it be better for my speed to just go into maintenance mode and then ramp up again when I do more explosive work? I just finished 6 weeks of level 3 SS and move into level 4 next week for 6 weeks. I saw a dry swing bump of 109 to 115 with driver during this time. 

Edited December 28, 2022 by Rbsiedsc

[drtstandy]

1 minute ago, Rbsiedsc said:

Ok so a question on this. I am 3 months into a fit for golf circuit (off-season training) and starting the winter strength for the next three months. These are big muscle workouts near to failure at heavy weight. I also am doing speed training during this time. I already know I may not see huge gains but would it be better for my speed to just go into maintenance mode and then ramp up again when I do more explosive work? I just finished 6 weeks of level 3 SS and move into level 4 next week for 6 weeks. 

 

Ya I think you are pointing our a principle that a lot of elite level athletes utilize for cycling training. If you are in a really strength based focus right now, then I think what you suggest could be very beneficial. Don't fully leave the speed focused training, find one day a week where you are really fresh and can create high speeds and then make sure that you hit it hard during that one session. That way you can maintain the gains you have already built. But otherwise you are in a cycle focusing on the high force/strength side of the force velocity curve, trying to maximize those gains. Then as you transition to the more velocity focused training, you can make the speed sessions your number one priority at 3x a week and then scale back on the strength to just enough to maintain strength while you look to build a bunch of speed. 

[jestein1679]

100% excellent advice Dr. to cycle through a speed/strength focus.   

 

If you are not going to do cycles, I read that most experts recommend not training to failure in the gym (heavy weight, low reps, but leave some reps in reserve) and try to get as strong as you can without a lot of fatigue, so you can be as fresh as possible for speed training the next day or later in the week.  Strength and speed work is a delicate balance.  A lot of fatigue isn't good for speed and probably isn't great for your golf swing either, but the strength is really important to support speed, prevent injuries and helps with coordination so figuring out how to balance everything should be given a lot of consideration.  

 

I highly recommend that you get strong first, then go speed especially if you are over 30-35 and more injury prone.  I can speak from experience, it is almost inevitable that you will hurt yourself trying to increase speed if your body is not ready for it.  

Edited December 29, 2022 by jestein1679

[jestein1679]

On 12/27/2022 at 11:08 AM, Rbsiedsc said:

Nice work. I was at the range today, granted a day after speed training and the gym and I topped out at 109 and had several +160 ball speed. Did you also have to focus on going all out with driver or did it come naturally? Maybe I should expect my gains to peak in the summer when I’m not lifting as hard and my focus is total speed

 

I'd say its pretty unnatural to try to swing as hard as you can with a ball because there is usually a focus on where the ball is going.  You kind of have to free up your mind and just push yourself to do it with absolutely no concern where it goes.   The only concern is the numbers on the radar.    Experiment with small adjustments - longer backswing, higher hands, wider arc.  I like to get my right arm/elbow off my body like almost a baseball player would.  Same thing with the sticks. See what works for you and just try and crush it.  

Edited December 29, 2022 by jestein1679

[jestein1679]

I filmed myself doing a swing with a speed stick if anyone is interested.  Note long backswing, high hands and running start.  This one was 135 with green

 

 

[Brooks_Cupcake]

@jestein1679thanks for posting. I found today that the speed at the bottom (for myself is key.) I actually jumped another 2 mph on the light and 3 on the medium just finding the bottom of the arc

[kengan]

Been using them on and off for 1.5 months~ now. TBH I'm not getting as much speed gain as I thought I'd get from using them, albeit I have not been keeping up with the frequency of the program for most weeks. 

 

Before training my stock driver club speed was 106~. If anything my club head went up 2MPH at most. And I've found that the speed doesn't stick if you don't maintain the program. Personally I've found hitting the gym to benefit my speed much more than doing the super speed sets. Ultimately I'll probably do both throughout the winter and see where it lands me after 2 or 3 months. 

 

Having said that these are great for priming the swing. The balls are noticeably carrying farther after doing the set. 

[darom86]

Inspired by jestein1679, got back after it yesterday with a Speed Sticks session.  Hadn't done a dedicated speed sticks session since early 2021 maybe - fell off the wagon, found the protocols tough on my body and hard to balance with training in the gym and playing 3 to 4 times a week.

 

Hoping to stick with 2 to 3 speed sticks sessions and work in the gym for the next few months for an Northeast offseason protocol.

 

I am starting normal range drivers at 108 chs and 160 ball speed, measured on a trackman in November.

 

Max with the green/blue/red sticks during session one was 120/111/106.

 

I feel stronger golf wise and body wise to better handle the protocols after playing a lot of golf and being consistent in the gym.  I feel I've also made some good improvements full swing wise.  I am 36 years old.

 

One thing that will be tough is that I can't swing the sticks indoors in my apartment or building; I have to go to a nearby park.  That may get tough as it gets cold.  So gonna try to push through that and also dedicate some time to warming up extra to preserve the body in cold weather and also achieve some good max speeds.

 

Any sense how much I can gain chs and bs wise?  My goal is 115 chs and 170 bs - not sure if that is achievable . . . 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by darom86
typo

[FormerBigDaddy]

Ok so I'm a few weeks in and noticing some trends that I found interesting.  As stated before, I lift monday through friday and refuse to sacrifice my workouts for speed training.  Therefore at least 2 of my 3 speed training workouts overlap days I lift.  I try to always do my 3rd speed training workout on the weekend when I'm rested.  Yes, I do see differences in speed (about 4mph on each stick), however my results are still trending upwards.  Let me explain... when recording my results on a spreadsheet, I am sure to also note whether the daily results were on a day where I had already lifted in the morning vs not and being fresh.  Long story short, numbers are going up in both columns regardless of whether I have lifted or not that day.  No, they don't match, but the progress does.

Last non-lift results: 127/121/115

Last lift day results: 123/118/114

 

2nd thing.  When doing my speed training I do swing as hard as I can, however I try to do so while maintaining balance and good finish.  I am conscience about making a swing that can still make solid contact.  I basically try to make my normal golf swing as hard as I can opposed to just being out of control just for extra MPH.  From what I can tell, this is still working nicely.  On SS site it says you should able able to swing the green stick at 130 in order to get a 110 driver swing.  However, after my last session of topping out at 123 on green (lift day), I was able to get a max driver swing hitting a ball at 111.  So despite my green stick not being as high, b/c i feel like i'm still putting a good swing on the stick it seems to still translate well when making a driver swing.  I know I'm a waze away from doing this consistency but it was very encouraging to see.  

 

I am curious to hear if anyone else has taken this approach.  What is your max green stick speed vs. you real life driver speed?

Edited January 6, 2023 by FormerBigDaddy

[FormerBigDaddy]

Update to my update. 
 

Had a good heavy lift this morning and still improved my lift day max speed by 2mph on the green stick this evening. 125! Pumped to see what I can do Sunday on my next rested speed training day. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by FormerBigDaddy
Typo

[jestein1679]

In my experience, your driver max ss will track your red minus a few mph.  You can also expect about a 13-14 mph gap between green and red.  If your green goes up so should your red.  I would expect someone swinging a green 130 to be at about 116 red which would be about 113 max with the driver.

 

Just so you know I didn’t see a ton of incremental gains.  It looks like I did 23 sessions where I was within 1-2 mphs of my prior sessions.  On the 24th session I randomly gained about 4 mphs with each stick. 

 

I then did another 19 sessions where I gained nothing and even went backwards a little then hit personal records in three consecutive sessions to gain another 4 mphs with each stick within those three sessions.

 

Since then I have done 28 sessions and gained 2-3 mphs incrementally.  
 

It’s possible I missed recording a handful of sessions.  I’m really only doing the sticks now like 1x a week, maybe 2.  There days where I feel slow and stop pretty early too and don’t record a session.
 

I would recommend going all out.  You’re trying to break neurological and physical barriers not groove a functional golf swing.  You’re also teaching yourself the proper kinetic sequence.  If you are so out of control you will likely be slower not faster.  Just my opinion but  I would do whatever it takes to move the sticks faster.  
 

For analogy here’s  a link to a mlb player working on increasing velocity.  He’s definitely not focused on his mechanics:

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by jestein1679

[FormerBigDaddy]

9 hours ago, jestein1679 said:

In my experience, your driver max ss will track your red minus a few mph.  You can also expect about a 13-14 mph gap between green and red.  If your green goes up so should your red.  I would expect someone swinging a green 130 to be at about 116 red which would be about 113 max with the driver.

 

Just so you know I didn’t see a ton of incremental gains.  It looks like I did 23 sessions where I was within 1-2 mphs of my prior sessions.  On the 24th session I randomly gained about 4 mphs with each stick. 

 

I then did another 19 sessions where I gained nothing and even went backwards a little then hit personal records in three consecutive sessions to gain another 4 mphs with each stick within those three sessions.

 

Since then I have done 28 sessions and gained 2-3 mphs incrementally.  
 

It’s possible I missed recording a handful of sessions.  I’m really only doing the sticks now like 1x a week, maybe 2.  There days where I feel slow and stop pretty early too and don’t record a session.
 

I would recommend going all out.  You’re trying to break neurological and physical barriers not groove a functional golf swing.  You’re also teaching yourself the proper kinetic sequence.  If you are so out of control you will likely be slower not faster.  Just my opinion but  I would do whatever it takes to move the sticks faster.  
 

For analogy here’s  a link to a mlb player working on increasing velocity.  He’s definitely not focused on his mechanics:

 

Good info.  Do you mind sharing (again if you have already), your records and/or your results from beginning to end?  I can see how you can hit a point where the gains sort of max out with small incremental gains over time.  Kind of like lifting in the gym... you see the most change in the first month or so then it takes a ton of work just to see minimal gains.  I've done about 10 sessions and I think i have a good amount of room to grow.  Still a lot of experimenting going on.  

[SirFuego]

On 1/6/2023 at 8:22 AM, FormerBigDaddy said:

Ok so I'm a few weeks in and noticing some trends that I found interesting.  As stated before, I lift monday through friday and refuse to sacrifice my workouts for speed training.  Therefore at least 2 of my 3 speed training workouts overlap days I lift.  I try to always do my 3rd speed training workout on the weekend when I'm rested.  Yes, I do see differences in speed (about 4mph on each stick), however my results are still trending upwards.  Let me explain... when recording my results on a spreadsheet, I am sure to also note whether the daily results were on a day where I had already lifted in the morning vs not and being fresh.  Long story short, numbers are going up in both columns regardless of whether I have lifted or not that day.  No, they don't match, but the progress does.

Last non-lift results: 127/121/115

Last lift day results: 123/118/114

 

2nd thing.  When doing my speed training I do swing as hard as I can, however I try to do so while maintaining balance and good finish.  I am conscience about making a swing that can still make solid contact.  I basically try to make my normal golf swing as hard as I can opposed to just being out of control just for extra MPH.  From what I can tell, this is still working nicely.  On SS site it says you should able able to swing the green stick at 130 in order to get a 110 driver swing.  However, after my last session of topping out at 123 on green (lift day), I was able to get a max driver swing hitting a ball at 111.  So despite my green stick not being as high, b/c i feel like i'm still putting a good swing on the stick it seems to still translate well when making a driver swing.  I know I'm a waze away from doing this consistency but it was very encouraging to see.  

 

I am curious to hear if anyone else has taken this approach.  What is your max green stick speed vs. you real life driver speed?

I did speed training (without accompanying weight training) a few years ago with good results, but I eventually got to the point that I felt like I was on the brink of injury.  After setting a home gym in my garage, I shifted focus to hitting the weights and mostly abandoned speed training.  However, I did a few sessions here and there during the season and my speeds were a few mph better better than my original speed training -- however, it felt like my body could handle a lot more speed than where I was at.  That said, I think both speed training and lifting can serve as a good complement to each other.

 

This winter, I'm going to approach this differently, and interleave speed training with weight training.  My plan is to lift 4 days a week (lower, upper, 1-2 days rest, lower, upper, 1-2 days rest, etc), do like 15-30 mins of cardio on my rest days (rowing machine most likely), and do speed training 2-3 times/week (minimum 24 hour rest between sessions).  Given the fact that I travel for work and will have typical weeknight/weekend commitments that might make certain days problematic to workout, I figure that any sort of deload or "extra" rest days will just happen organically.  Plus with the ability to work out at home, it's not a big deal if my workout schedule shifts by a day or two and/or move around the times I workout if needed.

 

Since that means there will be overlap between lifting and speed training days, I'm going to just do one of two approaches depending on what the schedule/weather allows: Speed train during the day (I have access to a gym at work with enough room to swing and I normally workout in the evening) or superset my speed training with my warmup sets in whatever my primary lift is for the day.  I did the latter yesterday and I was really fired up to move the weight after my speed training session was done.

 

One other thing I'm going to experiment with is using a single weight per speed training session, but use a different weight every session.  For example, last week, I did a session with just the green stick and a couple days later did a session with just the blue stick.  Part of this is curiosity, the other part is practicality.  I'll be doing some sessions at work and some at home, so rather than bring my sticks to/from work, I'm just keeping one stick at the office and keeping the radar in my backpack which I take to/from work daily.  I'm just doing the level 1 protocol (for now) but with 5 swings per side/swing.  This is about 56% of the volume prescribed by SuperSpeed when you account for the fact that I'm not switching between sticks. 

Edited January 9, 2023 by SirFuego

[FormerBigDaddy]

So I've been spending some time reading through most this thread from start to beginning and I noticed at some point that the protocols changed.

 

At one point did the protocols include swinging from your knees? The current protocols do not include them but I actually think that this could be really beneficial to me.  I am very much a body swinger and feel like i don't use my arms much.  I also have a tendency to tilt and have a lot of left side bend early.  When swinging from my knees I cannot swing this way AT ALL.  Completely changes my swing probably for the good.

 

Anyone have feedback from KNEELING SWINGS?  

Edited January 9, 2023 by FormerBigDaddy

[SirFuego]

35 minutes ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

So I've been spending some time reading through most this thread from start to beginning and I noticed at some point that the protocols changed.

 

At one point did the protocols include swinging from your knees? I actually think that this could be really beneficial to me.  I am very much a body swinger and feel like i don't use my arms much.  I also have a tendency to tilt and have a lot of left side bend early.  When swinging from my knees I cannot swing this way AT ALL.  Completely changes my swing probably for the good.

 

Anyone have feedback from KNEELING SWINGS?  

Swinging from the knees basically takes the lower body out of the equation and it's more of an armsy swing.  A number of people have issues kneeling on the ground and I could see removing the lower body completely potentially cause some lower back issues if folks don't have good thoracic mobility.  From what I remember, the original protocols suggested feet together swings for those folks that don't feel comfortable swinging from their knees.  I vaguely remember this being discussed somewhere in this monster of a thread where people were wondering if they really needed to do kneeling swings because they didn't feel comfortable doing them.  I'm going to guess that these potential issues were the reasons they removed them from the protocols.  Not to mention (placing tin foil on my head), they also now have a SuperSpeed C stick that is counterweighted to improve hand speed.

 

FWIW, while I can't say for sure if they still do, as of December 2021, Par4Success (who has different views than SuperSpeed in terms of overspeed training protocols) was prescribing kneeling swings to begin each session.  That said, Par4Success is a golf fitness company that specializes in individualized training, and won't prescribe overspeed training to their clients unless they feel they are strong and mobile enough to handle overspeed training without a significant injury risk.  So the potential issues with kneeling swings I mentioned above are probably less of an issue for them.

 

When I did the kneeling swings, it kind of felt like a good additional warmup before going all out with full swings.  If you can do kneeling swings and don't feel like you are on the brink of injury, it wouldn't be a bad idea to do them.  But at the same time, I can't say for sure how much benefit you will get from them either as it probably depends on where the "bottleneck" of your speed actually is.  That said, it might be a good new stimulus to introduce later once you start to plateau with your speeds.

Edited January 9, 2023 by SirFuego

[FormerBigDaddy]

19 minutes ago, SirFuego said:

Swinging from the knees basically takes the lower body out of the equation and it's more of an armsy swing.  A number of people have issues kneeling on the ground and I could see removing the lower body completely potentially cause some lower back issues if folks don't have good thoracic mobility.  From what I remember, the original protocols suggested feet together swings for those folks that don't feel comfortable swinging from their knees.  I'm going to guess that these potential issues were the reasons they removed them.  Not to mention (placing tin foil on my head), they also now have a SuperSpeed C stick that is counterweighted to improve hand speed.

 

FWIW, as of December 2021, Par4Success (who has different views than SuperSpeed in terms of overspeed training protocols) was still prescribing kneeling swings to begin each session.  That said, Par4Success is a golf fitness company that specializes in individualized training, and won't prescribe overspeed training to their clients unless they feel they are strong and mobile enough to handle overspeed training without a significant injury risk.  So the potential issues with kneeling swings I mentioned above are probably less of an issue for them.

 

When I did the kneeling swings, it kind of felt like a good additional warmup before going all out with full swings.

Thank you.  I'm definitely going to start including kneeling swings in my protocols.  I'm thinking of putting them right after my first position of "normal" swings.  So kneeling would be #2 and then continue with the given protocol.  

 

Can anyone chime in on what they saw long term from kneeling swings?  

 

Also, can anyone suggest a decent pad that would work well for kneeling swings?  I'm sure there's an amazon special...

Edited January 9, 2023 by FormerBigDaddy

[SirFuego]

18 hours ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

Thank you.  I'm definitely going to start including kneeling swings in my protocols.  I'm thinking of putting them right after my first position of "normal" swings.  So kneeling would be #2 and then continue with the given protocol.  

 

Can anyone chime in on what they saw long term from kneeling swings?  

 

Also, can anyone suggest a decent pad that would work well for kneeling swings?  I'm sure there's an amazon special...

I think the original protocols were Kneeling->Normal->Step Change->Normal with 5 swings each side/stick, so the new protocols basically just removed the kneeling swings and reduced it to 3 swings each side/stick.  Doing kneeling first is also consistent with Par4Success and another trainer Jason Glass (who at least as of a year or two ago used single-knee swings -- like a genuflecting position) instead of both knees on the ground.  You could probably argue that the last set of "normal" swings is the most important for skill transition.  Perhaps the set before that as well where you typically do a swing that is faster than a regular maxed out swing to get your nervous system amped up.  But anything before those sets?  Not sure how much the order really matters.

 

For kneeling swings, you can use a pillow or those cheap anti-fatigue foam mats you can get at Harbor Freight, Lowes, etc.

https://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-anti-fatigue-foam-mat-set-94635.html

 

Comparatively speaking the difficulty of an overspeed session is a lot easier than a strength training session -- but the overspeed training is still taxing on the nervous system.  If you can handle the volume of overspeed training, then it's probably not hurting anything adding in a set of kneeling swings.  Someone that is already strength trained could probably handle more volume than someone just doing overspeed training without any sort of fitness base. 

 

The unfortunate thing is that we are unlikely to find any unbiased research into what is optimal and what isn't optimal when it comes to overspeed training, so it might be worthwhile to just do a prescribed protocol as-is (like the SuperSpeed Level 1 protocol) to get the "lay of the land", if you will, then venture off into program modifications as you better understand how your body reacts to overspeed training.  You can kind of equate it to getting into strength training for the first time -- you are probably better off just doing a predefined program as-is before you venture off and start modifying programs.

Edited January 10, 2023 by SirFuego

[FormerBigDaddy]

30 minutes ago, SirFuego said:

I think the original protocols were Kneeling->Normal->Step Change->Normal with 5 swings each side/stick, so the new protocols basically just removed the kneeling swings and reduced it to 3 swings each side/stick.  Doing kneeling first is also consistent with Par4Success and another trainer Jason Glass (who at least as of a year or two ago used single-knee swings -- like a genuflecting position) instead of both knees on the ground.  You could probably argue that the last set of "normal" swings is the most important for skill transition.  Perhaps the set before that as well where you typically do a swing that is faster than a regular maxed out swing to get your nervous system amped up.  But anything before those sets?  Not sure how much the order really matters.

 

For kneeling swings, you can use a pillow or those cheap anti-fatigue foam mats you can get at Harbor Freight, Lowes, etc.

https://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-anti-fatigue-foam-mat-set-94635.html

 

Comparatively speaking the difficulty of an overspeed session is a lot easier than a strength training session -- but the overspeed training is still taxing on the nervous system.  If you can handle the volume of overspeed training, then it's probably not hurting anything adding in a set of kneeling swings.  Someone that is already strength trained could probably handle more volume than someone just doing overspeed training without any sort of fitness base. 

 

The unfortunate thing is that we are unlikely to find any unbiased research into what is optimal and what isn't optimal when it comes to overspeed training, so it might be worthwhile to just do a prescribed protocol as-is (like the SuperSpeed Level 1 protocol) to get the "lay of the land", if you will, then venture off into program modifications as you better understand how your body reacts to overspeed training.  You can kind of equate it to getting into strength training for the first time -- you are probably better off just doing a predefined program as-is before you venture off and start modifying programs.

Thanks for the info... yeah I have a strong base of strength training for a number of years and I don't feel anything from speed training.  I've been doing a few more reps with each club in protocol 1 from the beginning.  Not concerned with adding kneeling.  I'll play around with doing them first vs second.  For me I think I need the feeling of an on plane turn and arm swing.  I tend to tilt too much so kneeling would be good to level me out a bit.  Might be a good idea to do them first so that I can take that feeling into my first set of normal swings.  Just want to be good and loose before kneeling though.

[FormerBigDaddy]

I'm really really digging these speedsticks and the training protocols.  I've been reading through most of this entire thread and it's very interesting to see and compare numbers and how different people performed.  I've done 11 sessions and speed has definitely jumped.  The trend of being slower on days I've done a lift continues but even on those days I'm seeing gains and I'm still seeing slow gains on days I don't work out, which is about 4 mph difference than days I've lifted.

 

Yesterday was interesting.  It was a day i lifted so numbers were 123/118/112.  However I did some driver swings at the end (not hitting a ball) and peaked at 116 and averaged 113.  That was really encouraging to see my driver faster than red stick.  Also really exciting to see driver swings that high on a day I had already lifted.

 

Anyone else do driver swings on air at the end of their workouts?  How does that number usually compare to hitting a ball?  How have those drivers on air compare to your red stick?

 

Interesting stuff.  

Edited January 11, 2023 by FormerBigDaddy

[SirFuego]

2 hours ago, FormerBigDaddy said:

I'm really really digging these speedsticks and the training protocols.  I've been reading through most of this entire thread and it's very interesting to see and compare numbers and how different people performed.  I've done 11 sessions and speed has definitely jumped.  The trend of being slower on days I've done a lift continues but even on those days I'm seeing gains and I'm still seeing slow gains on days I don't work out, which is about 4 mph difference than days I've lifted.

 

Yesterday was interesting.  It was a day i lifted so numbers were 123/118/112.  However I did some driver swings at the end (not hitting a ball) and peaked at 116 and averaged 113.  That was really encouraging to see my driver faster than red stick.  Also really exciting to see driver swings that high on a day I had already lifted.

 

Anyone else do driver swings on air at the end of their workouts?  How does that number usually compare to hitting a ball?  How have those drivers on air compare to your red stick?

 

Interesting stuff.  

A few years ago when I was doing this regularly (just a few sessions getting back into it), a max effort red stick was a few mph faster than a "normal" driver hitting balls after a typical warm up.  In the few times I swung an actual driver (without a ball) after an overspeed session using "normal" effort, it tracked pretty well with a max effort red stick.  So I would say that the max effort red stick minus a few mph may be a reasonable indicator for actual on-the-course or on-the-range speed for a normal effort driver hitting a ball -- but it might be a bit different for someone else.

 

That said, are you at least hitting balls or playing regularly outside of your overspeed work?  If not, hitting actual balls with normal effort (even if it's just partial wedges with a foam/wiffle ball) after an overspeed session gave me good results to maintain some semblance of consistency during the off-season we have here.  It's like a good "cool down", but also reminds your brain that you actually need to hit the ball squarely -- so when you do get back into hitting balls regularly, melding your speed and ability to square the clubface will be less of an issue.

Edited January 11, 2023 by SirFuego

[FormerBigDaddy]

1 hour ago, SirFuego said:

A few years ago when I was doing this regularly (just a few sessions getting back into it), a max effort red stick was a few mph faster than a "normal" driver hitting balls after a typical warm up.  In the few times I swung an actual driver (without a ball) after an overspeed session using "normal" effort, it tracked pretty well with a max effort red stick.  So I would say that the max effort red stick minus a few mph may be a reasonable indicator for actual on-the-course or on-the-range speed for a normal effort driver hitting a ball -- but it might be a bit different for someone else.

 

That said, are you at least hitting balls or playing regularly outside of your overspeed work?  If not, hitting actual balls with normal effort (even if it's just partial wedges with a foam/wiffle ball) after an overspeed session gave me good results to maintain some semblance of consistency during the off-season we have here.  It's like a good "cool down", but also reminds your brain that you actually need to hit the ball squarely -- so when you do get back into hitting balls regularly, melding your speed and ability to square the clubface will be less of an issue.

Great feedback.  That's pretty much what I've gathered after reading most of this monster thread.  I'm truly addicted... I'm pretty confident that I've already gained about 4-5 real life mph on my driver swing through 12 sessions and planning to continue to do it 3x a week for the next 2-3 months.  Hoping to squeak out maybe 3-4 more mph on a normal effort driver swing on the course.  I started at around 105-106mph and would be thrilled to be cruising at like 112-113 by summer. I think there's a decent amount left on the table.  I'm not much of an arm swinger and the C club and arm swing drills have me intrigued.  I've had a decent amount of ah-ha moments already and I think there's a few more in store. 

 

As for the second questions, yes I have a mat and net in my garage where I do my speed work and I do hit balls after or on days off.  I still play or go to the range probably once a week as well in the winter.  Last time out i noticed my mechanics actually improve.  I think the sequencing that you work on with speed training is actually really beneficial to my on course swing.  I had a tendency to be inside out and hang back a bit and speed training speed to be helping me get through the ball better.  

Edited January 11, 2023 by FormerBigDaddy

[joshsparham]

So I have a really interesting data set, I think, working on overspeed training. 

 

My speed numbers are all really close across all of the different weights and ultimately with my driver.  

 

My max with the light stick is 117-120, 114-116 with the medium, and 108-110 with the heavy stick.   Then measuring speed with my driver it is on average around 111-113 mph.

 

I am not complaining this time last year I was about 106-108 with the driver.  I have kept at this 3x a week along with weight training, but have not seen gains in quite a while. 

 

I am also confused on why my numbers are so closely bunched.