Thoughts on Couch Potatoes Calling in Penalties

[8thehardway]

With the theme song for Pinky and the Brain playing in the background...

 

linking a high-end computer, high def TV and dimple-mapping software, record all instances of slightly mis-marked or imperfectly replaced balls.

 

disqualify everyone until the long-shot you bet on wins The Masters by default

 

 

 

 

[warfelg]

I have no issue with the two stroke penalty IF she has replaced it incorrectly (I haven't seen the footage). The extra two strokes for the incorrect score are unfair, as this has been noticed a day later. Had it been noticed on the day before she'd finished, they could've been added on with no further issues. The incorrect score penalty is not designed for situations like this.

 

Would just be nice for the rules people to stop making the game look so bad. Yes, they need to protect the field, but the way they have gone about it just paints golf in a bad light.

 

How do they penalize the action but look the other way on the incorrect card penalty? Unless they want to say that there's no way she could have known that it was a penalty for the action?

 

How much sense would that make? The committee really doesn't have any leeway there, unless they want to make it a BIGGER cluster

 

Very easy:

The playing competitor, rules official, and scoring official were not aware Lexi signed an incorrect scorecard at the time. Therefore, no penalty because she was signing an at the time correct scorecard.

 

Unless you also penalize all the other parties for an incorrect scorecard too.

[bunter101]

I'm not going to go on about the rules here. Enough has been said already.

 

The big talking point should be about a pro who "can't" mark a ball correctly. Just why would you think of putting the marker at the side of the ball?

 

I may be a cynic on this one but "I did not mean that at all, I had no idea that I did it" doesn't cut it with me. It either points out she is a liar OR even worse, it is something she does without thinking about it. I.e probably something she does often and probably has done it for years.

[z18]

The biggest problem I had was the extra two strokes for signing an incorrect scorecard. The penalty occurred on the seventh hole which gave someone not affiliated with the tournament the option of calling a two stroke penalty if called before the completion of play that day or just waiting until the next day and having her assessed a four stroke penalty. That kind of power over the outcome of a tournament should never be given to an outside observer. By the way, marking the ball is not an exact science.

[warfelg]

I'm not going to go on about the rules here. Enough has been said already.

 

The big talking point should be about a pro who "can't" mark a ball correctly. Just why would you think of putting the marker at the side of the ball?

 

I may be a cynic on this one but "I did not mean that at all, I had no idea that I did it" doesn't cut it with me. It either points out she is a liar OR even worse, it is something she does without thinking about it. I.e probably something she does often and probably has done it for years.

 

From what I've seen from her she's usually careful about this. I think that she was trying to avoid her playing competitor's line so she didn't want to get fully behind it. Still a silly mistake, but if she wasn't at her usual angle of marking I can see it happening. She should have either marked it, stood up, and then replaced; let her playing competitor play; or just putt it out without marking.

[bladehunter]

my thought s? very simply.. If you have the balls to call in , you should be forced to e-sign a release form giving the tour the ability to post your name and address for reference..... problem solved....

[dave412]

Total BS... same day.. MAYBE.. but next day.. no sir

[Boricua Golf]

I agree, it's total BS, period...

[bunter101]

my thought s? very simply.. If you have the balls to call in , you should be forced to e-sign a release form giving the tour the ability to post your name and address for reference..... problem solved....

 

No sorry, the person only brought it to the attention of the competition rules committee, it is their shout what happens from there.

Putting somebody out to dry because they want the game played to the BASIC rules of the game? It's not a tiny hardly visible to the naked eye movement of a ball caught on slomo HDR 4K TV we are talking about.

[nix]

video replay is the absolute worst thing to happen to sports this century. It's absolutely terrible in all sports.

[CCTxGolf]

I heard Chuck Schumer had the Russians email the LPGA.

[warfelg]

my thought s? very simply.. If you have the balls to call in , you should be forced to e-sign a release form giving the tour the ability to post your name and address for reference..... problem solved....

 

No sorry, the person only brought it to the attention of the competition rules committee, it is their shout what happens from there.

Putting somebody out to dry because they want the game played to the BASIC rules of the game? It's not a tiny hardly visible to the naked eye movement of a ball caught on slomo HDR 4K TV we are talking about.

 

I disagree that it's hanging them out to dry. That's making someone accountable for their actions.

[highergr0und]

The tour should adopt a competitive advantage test here. That would still allow people to call in violations, but would give the tour latitude to determine whether the breach actually gave the offending player an advantage.

 

Outside of that, they would need to either have a rules official marking every player or come up with more bulletproof ways to avoid rules violations. In this instance, adopt a much more formal policy on how to mark and replace a ball on the green.

[JaNelson38]

my thought s? very simply.. If you have the balls to call in , you should be forced to e-sign a release form giving the tour the ability to post your name and address for reference..... problem solved....

 

No sorry, the person only brought it to the attention of the competition rules committee, it is their shout what happens from there.

Putting somebody out to dry because they want the game played to the BASIC rules of the game? It's not a tiny hardly visible to the naked eye movement of a ball caught on slomo HDR 4K TV we are talking about.

 

If a ruling is made because of something being brought to the attention of officials by an outside entity, they totally deserve to be named.

 

If a playing partner of Lexi Thompson called this infraction on her and had the LPGA look at it, everyone would know it. Why should someone sitting at home be allowed to sit in the shadows?

 

Sure, the LPGA rules officials make the final determination, but they only looked at it because of this email. Just in an effort to be transparent, the email and the person who wrote it should be released, especially since the LPGA ruled like they did. Otherwise, this all looks very shady. I mean...does Lexi Thompson even know who emailed the LPGA about this? She was the one most affected, and she probably even doesnt know.

 

Hopefully, this is the straw that breaks the camel's back regarding violations not called by either a player or an tournament official. NO outside influence on any rules decisions.

[stinger_gc]

This just proves the rules need to be easier.

[Hifade]

The USGA's position is that the rules exist to protect the field. My position is that's an excuse because you can NOT protect the entire field when only a few are under the scrutiny of the camera on every shot. Paul Goydos tweeted that this rule is broken every time someone marks their ball, because, in theory, you can't put it back in the EXACT SAME SPOT....and he's right. The solution is for every major Tour to now adopt their own "local rule" that says, at the end of the day's play.....all play is final and cannot be changed, thereby, eliminating call in's and emails the day after. Furthermore, have a rules official in EVERY group for rules decisions, and to oversee play for day by the players in their group. If nothing is reported by that official, at the end of the round, those scores in that group stand. They have a huge opportunity to enact change now and protect their players immediately.......TODAY and every day moving forward regardless of what the USGA and R&A decide to do.

 

Furthermore, why are the players even responsible for scores anymore? If every group has a walking scorekeeper, they should be ultimately responsible for getting the scores from each player in their group on every hole. This way the whole "signed for an incorrect score" and a resulting addition 2-shot penalty goes away completely. How can a player be penalized for signing an incorrect score from 24 hours before (or at all) when they didn't even know they committed an infraction to begin with? Oh, and where did the USGA get 2 shots as the penalty for this? Why 2 shots.....why not 5 shots... or 6 shots? Why not 1 shot? Yes, they changed it from being a DQ.....but it still appears subjective and complete ridiculous.

[DannyG]

With today's technology you could probably prove that 90% of replaced balls are not EXACTLY in the same spot. There was no advantage gained by the way Lexi placed her ball and that should be the deciding factor with a controversial call.

 

I would like to see all PGA and LPGA pros boycott all future tournaments until call-ins are officially prohibited.

[HighSpeedScene]

I have no issue with the two stroke penalty IF she has replaced it incorrectly (I haven't seen the footage). The extra two strokes for the incorrect score are unfair, as this has been noticed a day later. Had it been noticed on the day before she'd finished, they could've been added on with no further issues. The incorrect score penalty is not designed for situations like this.

 

Would just be nice for the rules people to stop making the game look so bad. Yes, they need to protect the field, but the way they have gone about it just paints golf in a bad light.

 

How do they penalize the action but look the other way on the incorrect card penalty? Unless they want to say that there's no way she could have known that it was a penalty for the action?

 

How much sense would that make? The committee really doesn't have any leeway there, unless they want to make it a BIGGER cluster

 

Very easy:

The playing competitor, rules official, and scoring official were not aware Lexi signed an incorrect scorecard at the time. Therefore, no penalty because she was signing an at the time correct scorecard.

 

Unless you also penalize all the other parties for an incorrect scorecard too.

 

Where is awareness a requirement of the rule?

[golfer07840]

And especially needs to stop a full day later. If these fuc@tards feel the need to call in, call in when you see it not days later. Lexi showed so much class. Life changing event. needs to be a limit when these people can call in, rules of golf need to be updated regarding this.

 

What if someone review all of Ryu's shots and finds something is she getting a DQ? After the call they should have reviewed it and deremined it had no effect on the outcome. At worse a 2 shot penalty.

 

Results have been announced and the championship is over. You can review and call/email all you want, but they aren't going to do anything about it.

 

I have a few thoughts on this.

 

1st. I have no issue with people calling in or emailing if they see something. It's been said time and again, and I happen to believe it, that this is our game, as in collectively. I do believe that there has to be some control in place as to when the complaint is looked at, by whom and how the decision is made to pursue penalty. We are not just spectators, and that's what separates this game from basketball, and football, etc.. We are all stewards of the game.

 

2nd. Just like you stated above, when the tourney is over, it's over... When the 1st tee shot in the next round is hit, any chance to penalize players for previous rounds should be lost. So to clarify.. You played day 1 with 15 clubs and no one noticed, round 2 starts and 1st player's ball is in the air... It's over, you got away with it... You hit the wrong ball and didn't say anything and no one noticed and called you on it... next day, 1st tee shot of the day, It's over, you got away with it... etc.. Any penalties for previous round must be incurred before the 1st player of the next round hits a shot. That way you can adjust scores and pairings. Obviously the PGA Tour can levy whatever suspensions and punishment for misconduct etc. they deem appropriate (If it's egregious and intentional or frequent)

 

3rd. The 2 stroke penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard should be reserved for those times where it's deemed more likely than not an attempt to deceive... It doesn't seem right to penalize someone for not declaring something that they were unaware of... And, btw, Lexi wasn't the only one who signed an incorrect scorecard then... Both signers were unaware an infraction was committed, but both attested and signed it was correct.

 

4th. The idea of replacing the ball to the exact spot is an absurd premise, it's pretty much impossible to return the ball to the EXACT spot. So rule on an official max marker size, then allow for placement around the entire perimeter of the mark as long as it's no closer to the hole (so basically 180 degrees). Limit the ability to mark to once per putt.

 

100% agree with points 2 - 4. Totally disagree with Point #1.

 

Viewers should stay the hell out of it.

[warfelg]

I have no issue with the two stroke penalty IF she has replaced it incorrectly (I haven't seen the footage). The extra two strokes for the incorrect score are unfair, as this has been noticed a day later. Had it been noticed on the day before she'd finished, they could've been added on with no further issues. The incorrect score penalty is not designed for situations like this.

 

Would just be nice for the rules people to stop making the game look so bad. Yes, they need to protect the field, but the way they have gone about it just paints golf in a bad light.

 

How do they penalize the action but look the other way on the incorrect card penalty? Unless they want to say that there's no way she could have known that it was a penalty for the action?

 

How much sense would that make? The committee really doesn't have any leeway there, unless they want to make it a BIGGER cluster

 

Very easy:

The playing competitor, rules official, and scoring official were not aware Lexi signed an incorrect scorecard at the time. Therefore, no penalty because she was signing an at the time correct scorecard.

 

Unless you also penalize all the other parties for an incorrect scorecard too.

 

Where is awareness a requirement of the rule?

 

IMO either everyone that signed and reviewed that scorecard made a mistake and needs to be penalized or no one.

 

If you're out there as my marker, sign the card, then find out there's a mistake, there should be a penalty to you too. That's just the way I feel about it. Either everyone goofed or no one goofed.

 

EDIT:

The wrong scorecard rule is one that I have always disagreed with. In actual tournament play both sides need to sign the card and the official needs to review it before everything is entered and submitted as final. So the way I see it is if everyone signs the card, and signs off that it's correct, and then a day later something is found to be wrong, then everyone involved gave the okay to an incorrect scorecard. The marker, the player and the official all made the same "mistake" in saying that the card was a good one. The competitor for saying the score on that hole was right, the marker for putting down the wrong score and not correcting the competitor, the official for not noticing there was a mistake and correcting it.

[Whatsinthebag]

Only sport that does this. Absolutely ridiculous. Can you imagine if the NFL allowed this. 8 hr games. Needs to stop

[fillwelix]

Does any other sport let this happen? No. Does it penalize the popular players more? Yes. Completely unfair.

[rainkingjr]

Have a rule a official walk with every single group. No calling in a rules infraction. No after-the-fact rulings.

 

That's the solution in my opinion. This call in from BS is pure non-sense.

[cinnepa]

Have a rule a official walk with every single group. No calling in a rules infraction. No after-the-fact rulings.

 

That's the solution in my opinion. This call in from BS is pure non-sense.

 

seriously, stop all call-in's/emails/texts, period. if it's not called on the course by the player/scorer/official...it's over, on to the next hole. this going back crap is just that, crap, especially by some person sitting at home. should never be allowed.

[ping rat]

Unless the name of the person emailing/calling is released at least to the player involved it has no merit. For all we know it could be a person with a grudge against the player, or a competitors family member or a competitors sponsor. That said it is ludicrous that a professional sport would allow anyone to influence the rules officials who is not properly vetted as being impartial. I personally would have declined the trophy knowing I was bested. The whole thing stinks and I really believe the real cheating was far more insidious and conducted behind the scenes.

[kristan]

Here's how to stop couch potato refs: Let them know when they call in, they (personally) will be exposed to the media. Bet it only takes one for people to think twice about it.

[27x10.5]

I think the LPGA people knew this was bogus but it would make headlines

[Hifade]

Unless the name of the person emailing/calling is released at least to the player involved it has no merit. For all we know it could be a person with a grudge against the player, or a competitors family member or a competitors sponsor. That said it is ludicrous that a professional sport would allow anyone to influence the rules officials who is not properly vetted as being impartial. I personally would have declined the trophy knowing I was bested. The whole thing stinks and I really believe the real cheating was far more insidious and conducted behind the scenes.

 

It's been reported that the person who sent the email was a rules official from another tour. That makes sense because they are trained to observe and "see" these kinds of things. More importantly, they would be the ones to know how to go about alerting and connecting with the correct person who could (or would have to) take action. Meaning, the average fan would have no idea how to get in touch with the right person that quickly.

[grillinandgolfin]

Absolute hogwash, especially coming a day later mid round. Who watches a replay with that much focus?!

 

Nothing like a slice of cold pizza and sabotage for Sunday brunch.

[Hifade]

Here's how to stop couch potato refs: Let them know when they call in, they (personally) will be exposed to the media. Bet it only takes one for people to think twice about it.

 

Good idea but could be damaging and put someone in harms way. I mean you thing Steve Bartman's interference with the Cubs in '03 caused him a problem in Chicago with death threats and all? He had to leave the city. With the craze of some fans and some people, this type of exposure may lead to real stalking, eventual harm and even liability from the fallout.