Thoughts on Couch Potatoes Calling in Penalties

[Vindog]

I would like to add that if anyone I know ever admits to calling/e-mailing/texting in a penalty on someone to a major professional tour I will punch them in d!ck as hard as I can and never speak with them again.

 

do you know any girls?

[Bad9]

What a lot of reactions. A lot has been said about the situation as such. About her moving the ball deliberately and so. Kind of uninteresting in regard of the thread title. There is also relevant comments about how to make the couch potato ruling go away. I'm leaning towards the idea of having rules officials watching video footage on-line in some way. It gets ridiculous when people e-mail long after. Seems like there are little rule nerds all over the place slow-motioning their way through the TV coverage afterwords in search of millimeters to give them 15 minutes of fame. Guess the guy laughed when Lexi cried.

 

Some easy ways to limit it IMO:

~ Don't acknowledge calls/emails once the next round starts.

~ Tours make a local rule to ignore the 2 stroke penalty on after the fact penalties for called in penalties.

~ Don't publish it, but the rules committee can decide that only if you can determine watching unzoomed footage in real time that a rule was broken that you will apply the penalty. Thinking more the DJ situation and Anna N last your. Took really slow mo, zoomed in footage to know it happened. If you can't see it in real time like the players did, then there should be no penalty.

~ Question the caller or emailer!! How did you see it? Why did you notice it? Did you watch multiple times to come to your conclusion? Did you notice it right away in real time or on replay? How those questions get answered should determine the intent of the whistle blower.

~The easy of easy one to me: There's a rumor this was an official from another tour. Ignore their calls!!! They clearly know what the result will be of calling in, especially if they call in late. That means if this rumor is true, that person called in knowing full and well the impact of what they were doing.

 

Oh and your last sentence:

Wouldn't shock me if that's is the case. Some of these people are sick in that way. After working at a club that hosted a USWO and hearing about their stalkers and crazies, I wouldn't be shocked if it was a stalker of someone behind Lexi that didn't want Lexi to win and was looking for infractions.

 

Why all the hoops. Do not accept call/mail ins at all. Period end of story. I could live with a tournament rules official or another player requesting a replay because that's the world we live in but that's it.

[youraway2]

The game is based on the integrity of the player. The playing field is not confined as in other sports. If a player violates a rule, it's irrelevant of how it was discovered. Play by the rules and if you violate them, accept the appropriate penalty. If you don't like coach potatoes calling in infractions; address it to the LPGA or PGA Tour, it has nothing to do with the Rules of Golf. Calling in, or reporting an infraction one might say, is oversight. The bottom line is the entire field was protected and the player who violated a rule wasn't allowed to fudge the position of the ball.

[CCTxGolf]

OK NOW WE ARE GETTING OUT OF HAND. Everyone calm down. The ANA is over, Ryu won, Lexi messed up. Period. Everyone has an opinion about it. No need for insults or bashing. Can't we all just get along?

 

Haha! Yes, I concede that I could very well be wrong. I actually hope I am because I'm a fan of hers. Sorry for the fluster

NP, we're good. I never try to be condescending or insulting. But when reading someone's typed words we all can throw our own emotions into them and take away what we may think is an insult. It's all good. Lexi messed up. Period. She should have marked her ball properly. I can also bet my life she'll never do that again. Though I must say my last statement(OK NOW WE ARE GETTING OUT OF HAND) was not meant for you. There are some heated back and forth a here and that is unfortunate.

 

It's a forum bro, people are going to disagree. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen....or so the saying goes.

 

It is interesting, however, that you're willing to take issue with "heated" back and forth exchanges, but take no issue with someone's effort to defame a player by calling them a cheater. That's unfortunate.

 

Give me a break. In one breath you cry about character because someone shares a different belief/opinion/argument than you and in another you discuss unfortunate qualities of someone that cant take the heat. Get over yourself. Lexi is a big girl that made big girl decision and got caught. What I and actually quite a few others in this forum believe is not going to change that. If you want to let her off the hook good for you. The whole point is she improved her line and got caught. Then it got reported and she got penalized in an unacceptable fashion.

 

Get out of the kitchen

[MtlJeff]

The game is based on the integrity of the player. The playing field is not confined as in other sports. If a player violates a rule, it's irrelevant of how it was discovered. Play by the rules and if you violate them, accept the appropriate penalty. If you don't like coach potatoes calling in infractions; address it to the LPGA or PGA Tour, it has nothing to do with the Rules of Golf. Calling in, or reporting an infraction one might say, is oversight. The bottom line is the entire field was protected and the player who violated a rule wasn't allowed to fudge the position of the ball.

 

My fear is not so much regarding obvious infractions, but when a ball moves so little it's only discernible on an Hd camera... Or cases like DJ last year where whether or not a rule was broken couldn't even be really determined

 

 

[whr]

OK NOW WE ARE GETTING OUT OF HAND. Everyone calm down. The ANA is over, Ryu won, Lexi messed up. Period. Everyone has an opinion about it. No need for insults or bashing. Can't we all just get along?

 

Haha! Yes, I concede that I could very well be wrong. I actually hope I am because I'm a fan of hers. Sorry for the fluster

NP, we're good. I never try to be condescending or insulting. But when reading someone's typed words we all can throw our own emotions into them and take away what we may think is an insult. It's all good. Lexi messed up. Period. She should have marked her ball properly. I can also bet my life she'll never do that again. Though I must say my last statement(OK NOW WE ARE GETTING OUT OF HAND) was not meant for you. There are some heated back and forth a here and that is unfortunate.

 

It's a forum bro, people are going to disagree. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen....or so the saying goes.

 

It is interesting, however, that you're willing to take issue with "heated" back and forth exchanges, but take no issue with someone's effort to defame a player by calling them a cheater. That's unfortunate.

 

Give me a break. In one breath you cry about character because someone shares a different belief/opinion/argument than you and in another you discuss unfortunate qualities of someone that cant take the heat. Get over yourself. Lexi is a big girl that made big girl decision and got caught. What I and actually quite a few others in this forum believe is not going to change that. If you want to let her off the hook good for you. The whole point is she improved her line and got caught. Then it got reported and she got penalized in an unacceptable fashion.

 

Get out of the kitchen

 

Two completely different things. Sounds like a struck a chord.

 

Look, if you're comfortable running around spewing falsehoods by accusing someone of being cheat with no evidence, that's on you. Your character, not mine. Just don't get upset when people challenge your belief/assertions and you can't back it up with facts.

[CCTxGolf]

Ok whr. I am pretty sure my character is not in jeopardy for disagreeing with some Internet jerk off about a point that really doesn't even matter. There is plenty of evidence and Lexi paid for it. You think you win. But Lexi still lost.

[heavy_hitter]

The game is based on the integrity of the player. The playing field is not confined as in other sports. If a player violates a rule, it's irrelevant of how it was discovered. Play by the rules and if you violate them, accept the appropriate penalty. If you don't like coach potatoes calling in infractions; address it to the LPGA or PGA Tour, it has nothing to do with the Rules of Golf. Calling in, or reporting an infraction one might say, is oversight. The bottom line is the entire field was protected and the player who violated a rule wasn't allowed to fudge the position of the ball.

 

Hogwash.

 

It is mathematically improbable to set your ball down in the same exact spot every time you mark your ball. Not only is it unlikely, but it takes luck to get it in the same exact spot. Had Lexi marked and went behind her ball for 5 seconds, no one knows. Had the picture not been blown up with a STILL shot, no one knows. You could not tell in real time with the naked eye.

[bigchucksr]

Eight pages!

 

[HighSpeedScene]

The game is based on the integrity of the player. The playing field is not confined as in other sports. If a player violates a rule, it's irrelevant of how it was discovered. Play by the rules and if you violate them, accept the appropriate penalty. If you don't like coach potatoes calling in infractions; address it to the LPGA or PGA Tour, it has nothing to do with the Rules of Golf. Calling in, or reporting an infraction one might say, is oversight. The bottom line is the entire field was protected and the player who violated a rule wasn't allowed to fudge the position of the ball.

 

Hogwash.

 

It is mathematically improbable to set your ball down in the same exact spot every time you mark your ball. Not only is it unlikely, but it takes luck to get it in the same exact spot. Had Lexi marked and went behind her ball for 5 seconds, no one knows. Had the picture not been blown up with a STILL shot, no one knows. You could not tell in real time with the naked eye.

 

Luckily, the rules don't require the kind of precision you appear to think they do. Also fortunate, they actually publish the rules so one doesn't have to make these kind of speculative arguments.

 

What a simple concept.

[HighSpeedScene]

The game is based on the integrity of the player. The playing field is not confined as in other sports. If a player violates a rule, it's irrelevant of how it was discovered. Play by the rules and if you violate them, accept the appropriate penalty. If you don't like coach potatoes calling in infractions; address it to the LPGA or PGA Tour, it has nothing to do with the Rules of Golf. Calling in, or reporting an infraction one might say, is oversight. The bottom line is the entire field was protected and the player who violated a rule wasn't allowed to fudge the position of the ball.

 

My fear is not so much regarding obvious infractions, but when a ball moves so little it's only discernible on an Hd camera... Or cases like DJ last year where whether or not a rule was broken couldn't even be really determined

 

I believe the rules adequately already address these two types of situations. But fear of what, exactly Jeff? Appropriately applying the rules? That risk is omnipresent - not much you can do to legislate away mistakes, and committees will continue to make them sporadically.

[MtlJeff]

The game is based on the integrity of the player. The playing field is not confined as in other sports. If a player violates a rule, it's irrelevant of how it was discovered. Play by the rules and if you violate them, accept the appropriate penalty. If you don't like coach potatoes calling in infractions; address it to the LPGA or PGA Tour, it has nothing to do with the Rules of Golf. Calling in, or reporting an infraction one might say, is oversight. The bottom line is the entire field was protected and the player who violated a rule wasn't allowed to fudge the position of the ball.

 

My fear is not so much regarding obvious infractions, but when a ball moves so little it's only discernible on an Hd camera... Or cases like DJ last year where whether or not a rule was broken couldn't even be really determined

 

I believe the rules adequately already address these two types of situations. But fear of what, exactly Jeff? Appropriately applying the rules? That risk is omnipresent - not much you can do to legislate away mistakes, and committees will continue to make them sporadically.

 

What I mean is that as coverage and camera work continue to get better, where do we draw the line? What if she had put the ball down a bit closer to the original spot, not as noticeable but still noticeable under a CSI type investigation. Do we penalize someone for that?

 

Remember the call that went against Tiger maybe 5-6 years ago where someone recorded him playing a shot out of the trees and caught his ball moving a very small amount. Tiger said he didn't notice anything. Some movements are so small they are almost imperceptable to the naked eye, do we penalize people for these?

 

I would rather we just leave it to on course officials before if becomes even more of sideshow, but that's just my opinion

[HighSpeedScene]

The game is based on the integrity of the player. The playing field is not confined as in other sports. If a player violates a rule, it's irrelevant of how it was discovered. Play by the rules and if you violate them, accept the appropriate penalty. If you don't like coach potatoes calling in infractions; address it to the LPGA or PGA Tour, it has nothing to do with the Rules of Golf. Calling in, or reporting an infraction one might say, is oversight. The bottom line is the entire field was protected and the player who violated a rule wasn't allowed to fudge the position of the ball.

 

My fear is not so much regarding obvious infractions, but when a ball moves so little it's only discernible on an Hd camera... Or cases like DJ last year where whether or not a rule was broken couldn't even be really determined

 

I believe the rules adequately already address these two types of situations. But fear of what, exactly Jeff? Appropriately applying the rules? That risk is omnipresent - not much you can do to legislate away mistakes, and committees will continue to make them sporadically.

 

What I mean is that as coverage and camera work continue to get better, where do we draw the line? What if she had put the ball down a bit closer to the original spot, not as noticeable but still noticeable under a CSI type investigation. Do we penalize someone for that?

 

Remember the call that went against Tiger maybe 5-6 years ago where someone recorded him playing a shot out of the trees and caught his ball moving a very small amount. Tiger said he didn't notice anything. Some movements are so small they are almost imperceptable to the naked eye, do we penalize people for these?

 

I would rather we just leave it to on course officials before if becomes even more of sideshow, but that's just my opinion

 

That's exactly what I mean - they addressed that specifically after the tiger incident. The line is already drawn, no? Or am I misremembering that?

 

Lemme go read a bit to see how off I am on that.

 

Edit: http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/9997686/golf-rules-limit-use-high-definition-replays

[manku]

I haven't read everything here, but this exact situation happened a couple years ago on the LPGA tour..http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2014/8/23/chella-choi-disagrees-with-penalty-wds-instead.html

 

Different situation, as it was Friday I believe and the player wasn't in contention.

 

Clearly, the tours have to wrap their hands around this post round penalty. The biggest obstacle, IMHO, is that golf is a "game of honor" and if these infractions are brought up, and no penalty is issued, then the players themselves might be labeled as cheats and their wins may be tainted. It's really a no win situation.

[MtlJeff]

The game is based on the integrity of the player. The playing field is not confined as in other sports. If a player violates a rule, it's irrelevant of how it was discovered. Play by the rules and if you violate them, accept the appropriate penalty. If you don't like coach potatoes calling in infractions; address it to the LPGA or PGA Tour, it has nothing to do with the Rules of Golf. Calling in, or reporting an infraction one might say, is oversight. The bottom line is the entire field was protected and the player who violated a rule wasn't allowed to fudge the position of the ball.

 

My fear is not so much regarding obvious infractions, but when a ball moves so little it's only discernible on an Hd camera... Or cases like DJ last year where whether or not a rule was broken couldn't even be really determined

 

I believe the rules adequately already address these two types of situations. But fear of what, exactly Jeff? Appropriately applying the rules? That risk is omnipresent - not much you can do to legislate away mistakes, and committees will continue to make them sporadically.

 

What I mean is that as coverage and camera work continue to get better, where do we draw the line? What if she had put the ball down a bit closer to the original spot, not as noticeable but still noticeable under a CSI type investigation. Do we penalize someone for that?

 

Remember the call that went against Tiger maybe 5-6 years ago where someone recorded him playing a shot out of the trees and caught his ball moving a very small amount. Tiger said he didn't notice anything. Some movements are so small they are almost imperceptable to the naked eye, do we penalize people for these?

 

I would rather we just leave it to on course officials before if becomes even more of sideshow, but that's just my opinion

 

That's exactly what I mean - they addressed that specifically after the tiger incident. The line is already drawn, no? Or am I misremembering that?

 

Lemme go read a bit to see how off I am on that.

 

Edit: http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/9997686/golf-rules-limit-use-high-definition-replays

 

Hmmm, I don't recall seeing that. I guess that's a good stipulation if it's adhered to. Thanks for the link

 

I still don't like the way the US open ended last year or this tournament. Like to my first point, what if her ball wasn't off THAT much. I just don't like stuff being called that needs to be caught on camera, but at least to your point they have addressed some of it

[warfelg]

I haven't read everything here, but this exact situation happened a couple years ago on the LPGA tour..http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2014/8/23/chella-choi-disagrees-with-penalty-wds-instead.html

 

Different situation, as it was Friday I believe and the player wasn't in contention.

 

Clearly, the tours have to wrap their hands around this post round penalty. The biggest obstacle, IMHO, is that golf is a "game of honor" and if these infractions are brought up, and no penalty is issued, then the players themselves might be labeled as cheats and their wins may be tainted. It's really a no win situation.

 

Hers was caught during the round, she disagreed with the ruling, WDed.

[HighSpeedScene]

 

Well, that's really shaky territory for rules in any sport. Look at the flagrant foul rules now in basketball - any contact with head or face? It's silly, but they did it because there was too much arbitrary calling of it - so, it's dumb that I can graze your ear with my hand and get called for a flagrant, but it's much more consistent.

[BLLDWG23]

If I was the Commish. or head of any major tour I'd come out and say as of today we are no longer listening to or verifying any rules infractions called in by a T.V viewer. If the caddies, competitors, or walking rules official doesn't see it or calls them out on it, it didn't happen.

[jacot23]

I haven't read everything here, but this exact situation happened a couple years ago on the LPGA tour..http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2014/8/23/chella-choi-disagrees-with-penalty-wds-instead.html

 

Different situation, as it was Friday I believe and the player wasn't in contention.

 

Clearly, the tours have to wrap their hands around this post round penalty. The biggest obstacle, IMHO, is that golf is a "game of honor" and if these infractions are brought up, and no penalty is issued, then the players themselves might be labeled as cheats and their wins may be tainted. It's really a no win situation.

 

The problem is not so much issuing a penalty, but there is a big problem with awarding an extra 2 stroke penalty for a correct at the time scorecard. All they have to do is allow the player to resign an altered scorecard; it ain't rocket science.

[mallrat]

I would like to add that if anyone I know ever admits to calling/e-mailing/texting in a penalty on someone to a major professional tour I will punch them in d!ck as hard as I can and never speak with them again.

 

Because picking up a phone or sending an email is on the same scale as punching someone in the crotch.

 

Freaking classy. What a tough guy - and so witty.

 

Advocating violence for this? Really?

 

We are, as a species, screwed

 

Point being, I don't want to associate with someone who thinks that is ok or cool.

 

Never said I was tough and not trying to be. Good to know you are a much better person than me. Carry on.

 

I would like to add that if anyone I know ever admits to calling/e-mailing/texting in a penalty on someone to a major professional tour I will punch them in d!ck as hard as I can and never speak with them again.

 

do you know any girls?

 

No why?

[mallrat]

First thing the tours need to address is the fairness of this. Until every shot by every player is taped and reviewed by a rules official it is not a level playing field. You can't punish players just for playing well or being popular which these call in penalties do. They will need to establish a way for everyone to be under the same scrutiny.

[HighSpeedScene]

I would like to add that if anyone I know ever admits to calling/e-mailing/texting in a penalty on someone to a major professional tour I will punch them in d!ck as hard as I can and never speak with them again.

 

Because picking up a phone or sending an email is on the same scale as punching someone in the crotch.

 

Freaking classy. What a tough guy - and so witty.

 

Advocating violence for this? Really?

 

We are, as a species, screwed

 

Point being, I don't want to associate with someone who thinks that is ok or cool.

 

Never said I was tough and not trying to be. Good to know you are a much better person than me. Carry on.

 

I would like to add that if anyone I know ever admits to calling/e-mailing/texting in a penalty on someone to a major professional tour I will punch them in d!ck as hard as I can and never speak with them again.

 

do you know any girls?

 

No why?

 

You mean someone that understands the rules and likes to see them applied at the highest level? That kind of cretin?

[Strike Force]

How does a person find out what the email address or phone number is so they can contact the LPGA or PGA rules committee? I've heard they are not made public...

[mallrat]

 

 

Or just someone who thinks they are better than everyone else. Sound familiar?

 

The other problem is we are making A LOT of assumptions that the person who informed the tour is doing this for the good of the game. What if the person didn't like the player, had money riding on it or just wanted or had an interest in someone else winning?

[HighSpeedScene]

 

 

Or just someone who thinks they are better than everyone else. Sound familiar?

 

The other problem is we are making A LOT of assumptions that the person who informed the tour is doing this for the good of the game. What if the person didn't like the player, had money riding on it or just wanted or had an interest in someone else winning?

 

That's quite an implication. Was there an infraction regardless of motivation?

[Hankshank]

The game is based on the integrity of the player. The playing field is not confined as in other sports. If a player violates a rule, it's irrelevant of how it was discovered. Play by the rules and if you violate them, accept the appropriate penalty. If you don't like coach potatoes calling in infractions; address it to the LPGA or PGA Tour, it has nothing to do with the Rules of Golf. Calling in, or reporting an infraction one might say, is oversight. The bottom line is the entire field was protected and the player who violated a rule wasn't allowed to fudge the position of the ball.

 

It is NOT the bottom line. That is a simple fact outside the thread. The bottom line is the way the tournament was spoiled. If the result of every tournament is to be held four days for allowing every rule nerd to slo-mo their way through their recordings of the tournament make ab-so-lu-te-ly sure that no millimeter anywhere is violated - is that what you want?

 

The bottom line is that rules have to be handled in a fashion that makes rule violations dealt with in an acceptable manner, both in terms of rules being followed and tournaments not ruined by late calls. A compromise, like everywhere else in the world where two interests clash.

 

And really, it has never been the idea that outside judges should walk around as in football or american rugby. The idea is that penalties is called by the player themselves. Gentleman's (and Gentlewoman's) sport and all that

[bladehunter]

what we are witnessing is the bubble being burst on the truman show that has been for decades the idea that golf is played 100% by the written rule... I hasnt been and it cannot be... not 100% of the time... there are too many things like this, the rule of not touching anything in a hazard , backswing and all, touchign a grain of sand in a trap etc.. these things have been broken by everyone from hacker to major champ and not been caught by anyone.. including the offenders.... But now that is over.... and some have their shocked faces on.... im not talking about the ones who are angry over the decision.. i mean the ones who think "rules are rules" .... well under this microscope the game will die in the eye of public opinion ..why ? it defies common sense.... The truth is being told and it wont get easier to hear...

[HighSpeedScene]

what we are witnessing is the bubble being burst on the truman show that has been for decades the idea that golf is played 100% by the written rule... I hasnt been and it cannot be... not 100% of the time... there are too many things like this, the rule of not touching anything in a hazard , backswing and all, touchign a grain of sand in a trap etc.. these things have been broken by everyone from hacker to major champ and not been caught by anyone.. including the offenders.... But now that is over.... and some have their shocked faces on.... im not talking about the ones who are angry over the decision.. i mean the ones who think "rules are rules" .... well under this microscope the game will die in the eye of public opinion ..why ? it defies common sense.... The truth is being told and it wont get easier to hear...

 

Easy to sling arrows - if I accept your premise, what do we do about it?

[nbg352]

I think it is important the LPGA find out exactly who reported the infraction. The infraction was next to impossible to be spotted by a golf fan watching the tournament. IMO, it could be someone connected to a player that was trailing Thompson. Someone that spent hours scrutinizing previous round replays to try and find any possible infraction to help their player.

 

But she still cheated

Actually, it appears that she may have broken a rule. Kind of hard to tell, exactly, if she even did that, cameras what they are and all.

Try to remember, breaking a rule is not cheating unless there is clear evidence that the rule breaking was a deliberate act for the purpose of gaining advantage.

Had the RB felt that she had cheated, I believe a DQ would have been in order.

 

What other reason would a pro golfer, that knows the rules, and has marked thousands of golf balls have for marking a golf ball then replacing it in a better position? I know that they did not DQ her. I also know she knows how to mark a golf ball.

The LPGA really knows the rules.

It says, no cheating. What makes you more knowledgeable than the LPGA in this matter, do you suppose?

[OLD_BONES]

HATE IT!