Impact Question

[progolf4life]

left wrist

1. Recently I have been hitting my driver very low. When I hit all my clubs I try to have a bowed wrist because this is what I thought was right. Now I am not too sure. This makes hitting my driver, 3 wood, and low irons very difficult and I find my carry distance is absolutely horrible.

What i'm asking is how should the left hand be at impact compared to how it is at setup?



2. The second thing i'm asking ties into the first. How far ahead of the ball should the shaft be at impact? and how far ahead of the ball should the shaft be at setup?

[parpar41]

Sounds to me like you might be overdoing it.

 

I found the image " drag the knuckles along the ground" to be very helpful.

 

Never could figure out what Hogan meant by "supination" of the left wrist.

 

No doubt that the bowed left wrist is an important impact fundamental.

[progolf4life]

Anyone else?

[leekgolf]

Sounds to me like you might be overdoing it.

 

I found the image " drag the knuckles along the ground" to be very helpful.

 

Never could figure out what Hogan meant by "supination" of the left wrist.

 

No doubt that the bowed left wrist is an important impact fundamental.

 

To supinate the left wrist means the palm of the left hand is facing up (at impact). Pronate means the palm is facing down.

 

The left wrist should not be bowed, unless you want to hit a fade. The left wrist should be flat. Put a credit card inside your glove and practice keeping the wrist flat against it.

[KMeloney]

Re: 1.: I'd say you're hitting the ball as you should be -- but perhaps your loft and shaft aren't ideal for your swing. I've only just recently begun to work on bowing my left wrist at impact, and the ball wants to go a lot way when I do this, my accuracy has improved, and my ball flight is either the same or a tad higher. Based on all of this, I know that my impact position is much better, and that this is the way I should be hitting the ball.

 

Also, maybe your left wrist is correct at impact, but something else is wrong...

 

Re: 2.: What I've SEEN a lot of (in magazines, watching the pros on TV, etc.) is that at set up with the driver, the shaft and hands trail behind the clubhead slightly, and at impact the shaft, left arm, and driver head are all INLINE.

 

The higher the loft of the club, the more the tilt of the shaft might lean the opposite way at setup, such that the hands are ahead of the ball. This promotes a downward strike with the irons. (You don't want a downward strike with the driver.) But, with either, the impact position looks very similar, and that is with the hands, left arm, and shaft inline (with a bowed right wrist).

 

If the shaft of the driver were tilting away from the head at impact, it would suggest that you "casted" the club (something I know I struggle with), likely resulting in a hook.

 

Sure wish I could get in the right impact position more often than not!

 

/< / /2 /<

[parpar41]

"The left wrist should not be bowed, unless you want to hit a fade"

 

not sure we are all speaking the same language.

 

Bowed as in supinated means draw; hitting down on the ball; removing loft ; hence " dragging the knuckles at impact.

 

Bowed as in pronated can mean fade but it sure don't mean draw ; not compressing the ball; adding loft.

[boxpressed]

I've been working hard on keeping my left wrist flat at impact too. It's not an easy transition if you are used to "picking" the ball at best and "scooping" it at worst. I'm concentrating on taking a good divot with all but the shortest of wedges.

 

Everything I've read says that the hands should be slightly ahead of the clubface at impact, regardless of what club you're using. The credit card idea is a good one. I bought this thing called a Swing Glove which is basically a leather glove with a hinged plastic swing plate sewn into it. I ended up with huge blisters on the back of my hand from the plate, but I'm breaking my left wrist a lot less. My iron shots carry at least 10 yards longer with only this adjustment.

[leekgolf]

"The left wrist should not be bowed, unless you want to hit a fade"

 

not sure we are all speaking the same language.

 

Bowed as in supinated means draw; hitting down on the ball; removing loft ; hence " dragging the knuckles at impact.

 

Bowed as in pronated can mean fade but it sure don't mean draw ; not compressing the ball; adding loft.

 

No we are speaking the same language. If the left wrist is bowed at impact, this places the hands farther in front of the clubhead and produces an open clubface, assuming a neutral grip. Bowing, flat or cupping have nothing to do with pronation or supination.

 

If you want to know more, check out: http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/index.php

[progolf4life]

If the wrist is bowed it can be a draw, fade, or a straight shot depending on where the bow in the wrist is facing... Also, after taking a lesson with a pro I found out all I needed and I wouldn't ever use any of the training aids that are out (swing glove..etc...). I don't believe in those things.

 

P.S: A bowed wrist at impact is not good at all and can cause errors in the swing to occur (duck hook, un-wanted fades, etc...). If you look at any pros swing at impact you can see that they have a straight wrist and not a bowed one.

 

KMeloney if you are using a bowed wrist and have gotten a higher trajectory then you are doing something wrong. For this to happen it means that your original impact position was somewhere with the left wrist pointing to the ground which in turn means the shaft would be well in front of the ball. You also don't want to have different wrist positions with each club because it creates great inconsistencies. That is not the way you should be hitting the ball if you plan to advance your game...

[progolf4life]

Re: 1.: I'd say you're hitting the ball as you should be -- but perhaps your loft and shaft aren't ideal for your swing. I've only just recently begun to work on bowing my left wrist at impact, and the ball wants to go a lot way when I do this, my accuracy has improved, and my ball flight is either the same or a tad higher. Based on all of this, I know that my impact position is much better, and that this is the way I should be hitting the ball.

 

Also, maybe your left wrist is correct at impact, but something else is wrong...

 

Re: 2.: What I've SEEN a lot of (in magazines, watching the pros on TV, etc.) is that at set up with the driver, the shaft and hands trail behind the clubhead slightly, and at impact the shaft, left arm, and driver head are all INLINE.

 

The higher the loft of the club, the more the tilt of the shaft might lean the opposite way at setup, such that the hands are ahead of the ball. This promotes a downward strike with the irons. (You don't want a downward strike with the driver.) But, with either, the impact position looks very similar, and that is with the hands, left arm, and shaft inline (with a bowed right wrist).

If the shaft of the driver were tilting away from the head at impact, it would suggest that you "casted" the club (something I know I struggle with), likely resulting in a hook.

 

Sure wish I could get in the right impact position more often than not!

 

/< / /2 /<

 

What you have said there is not correct. If everything was in line then the wrist would be straight. With a bowed wrist you would have the shaft trailing. This is not the proper impact postition as I said in my above post. You were mis-informed.

[tbyeaton0627]

Re: 1.: I'd say you're hitting the ball as you should be -- but perhaps your loft and shaft aren't ideal for your swing. I've only just recently begun to work on bowing my left wrist at impact, and the ball wants to go a lot way when I do this, my accuracy has improved, and my ball flight is either the same or a tad higher. Based on all of this, I know that my impact position is much better, and that this is the way I should be hitting the ball.

 

Also, maybe your left wrist is correct at impact, but something else is wrong...

 

Re: 2.: What I've SEEN a lot of (in magazines, watching the pros on TV, etc.) is that at set up with the driver, the shaft and hands trail behind the clubhead slightly, and at impact the shaft, left arm, and driver head are all INLINE.

 

The higher the loft of the club, the more the tilt of the shaft might lean the opposite way at setup, such that the hands are ahead of the ball. This promotes a downward strike with the irons. (You don't want a downward strike with the driver.) But, with either, the impact position looks very similar, and that is with the hands, left arm, and shaft inline (with a bowed right wrist).

 

If the shaft of the driver were tilting away from the head at impact, it would suggest that you "casted" the club (something I know I struggle with), likely resulting in a hook.

 

Sure wish I could get in the right impact position more often than not!

 

/< / /2 /<

 

As far as the driver is concerned, it depends on where the ball is played, usually at low point, and in fact, there is a downward force, ideally you would rather a flat left wrist at impact but "arched" or bowed is far more acceptable then bent

[progolf4life]

Re: 1.: I'd say you're hitting the ball as you should be -- but perhaps your loft and shaft aren't ideal for your swing. I've only just recently begun to work on bowing my left wrist at impact, and the ball wants to go a lot way when I do this, my accuracy has improved, and my ball flight is either the same or a tad higher. Based on all of this, I know that my impact position is much better, and that this is the way I should be hitting the ball.

 

Also, maybe your left wrist is correct at impact, but something else is wrong...

 

Re: 2.: What I've SEEN a lot of (in magazines, watching the pros on TV, etc.) is that at set up with the driver, the shaft and hands trail behind the clubhead slightly, and at impact the shaft, left arm, and driver head are all INLINE.

 

The higher the loft of the club, the more the tilt of the shaft might lean the opposite way at setup, such that the hands are ahead of the ball. This promotes a downward strike with the irons. (You don't want a downward strike with the driver.) But, with either, the impact position looks very similar, and that is with the hands, left arm, and shaft inline (with a bowed right wrist).

 

If the shaft of the driver were tilting away from the head at impact, it would suggest that you "casted" the club (something I know I struggle with), likely resulting in a hook.

 

Sure wish I could get in the right impact position more often than not!

 

/< / /2 /<

 

As far as the driver is concerned, it depends on where the ball is played, usually at low point, and in fact, there is a downward force, ideally you would rather a flat left wrist at impact but "arched" or bowed is far more acceptable then bent

 

You hit the nail on the head BUT with a bowed wrist it could mean a few things... you could have came too far on the inside and could catch the club up, you could have help your wrists too long, etc... this means that with a bowed wrist your trajectory/alignment/ballflight will all be altered and this means that your shot will not go where you want it too and actually this will lead to a loss in carry and total distance.

[leekgolf]

If the wrist is bowed it can be a draw, fade, or a straight shot depending on where the bow in the wrist is facing... Also, after taking a lesson with a pro I found out all I needed and I wouldn't ever use any of the training aids that are out (swing glove..etc...). I don't believe in those things.

 

P.S: A bowed wrist at impact is not good at all and can cause errors in the swing to occur (duck hook, un-wanted fades, etc...). If you look at any pros swing at impact you can see that they have a straight wrist and not a bowed one.

 

KMeloney if you are using a bowed wrist and have gotten a higher trajectory then you are doing something wrong. For this to happen it means that your original impact position was somewhere with the left wrist pointing to the ground which in turn means the shaft would be well in front of the ball. You also don't want to have different wrist positions with each club because it creates great inconsistencies. That is not the way you should be hitting the ball if you plan to advance your game...

 

I agree with you. I was assuming we are talking about a inside- down the target plane - inside swing, with proper alignments. If this is the case, a bowed left wrist produces a fade. This has been proved at a number of TGM symposiums and is pretty standard knowledge. In fact it produces a hard power fade.

[ej002]

Okay, I am not disagreeing with the bowed wrist = power fade. But in my experience a bowed wrist lowers the flight AND causes me to hook or draw. Sometimes this becomes a problem for me (like yesterday). So could someone with more knowledge enlighten us on how it is possible to hit a fade with a bowed wrist. A detailed explaination would be awesome, because I just can't conceptualize how this is possible. (I think we are all assuming in - out - in path)

 

 

also Leekgolf, which thread did you have in mind on the Brian Manzella forum? I tried looking but could not find anything.

 

thanks all.

[akanacl]

move the ball more forward in your stance.

[tbyeaton0627]

Re: 1.: I'd say you're hitting the ball as you should be -- but perhaps your loft and shaft aren't ideal for your swing. I've only just recently begun to work on bowing my left wrist at impact, and the ball wants to go a lot way when I do this, my accuracy has improved, and my ball flight is either the same or a tad higher. Based on all of this, I know that my impact position is much better, and that this is the way I should be hitting the ball.

 

Also, maybe your left wrist is correct at impact, but something else is wrong...

 

Re: 2.: What I've SEEN a lot of (in magazines, watching the pros on TV, etc.) is that at set up with the driver, the shaft and hands trail behind the clubhead slightly, and at impact the shaft, left arm, and driver head are all INLINE.

 

The higher the loft of the club, the more the tilt of the shaft might lean the opposite way at setup, such that the hands are ahead of the ball. This promotes a downward strike with the irons. (You don't want a downward strike with the driver.) But, with either, the impact position looks very similar, and that is with the hands, left arm, and shaft inline (with a bowed right wrist).

 

If the shaft of the driver were tilting away from the head at impact, it would suggest that you "casted" the club (something I know I struggle with), likely resulting in a hook.

 

Sure wish I could get in the right impact position more often than not!

 

/< / /2 /<

 

As far as the driver is concerned, it depends on where the ball is played, usually at low point, and in fact, there is a downward force, ideally you would rather a flat left wrist at impact but "arched" or bowed is far more acceptable then bent

 

You hit the nail on the head BUT with a bowed wrist it could mean a few things... you could have came too far on the inside and could catch the club up, you could have help your wrists too long, etc... this means that with a bowed wrist your trajectory/alignment/ballflight will all be altered and this means that your shot will not go where you want it too and actually this will lead to a loss in carry and total distance.

 

coming too far from the inside would be a plane issue and not a wrist condition, "holding the wrists" im assuming your talking about maintaining wristcock too long (?) would deal with handspeed and bending of the right elbow, your ball flight would only be altered if your normal stroke pattern uses a flat left wrist im not advoating an arched wrist but you could use it to produce ideal shots

[tbyeaton0627]

Okay, I am not disagreeing with the bowed wrist = power fade. But in my experience a bowed wrist lowers the flight AND causes me to hook or draw. Sometimes this becomes a problem for me (like yesterday). So could someone with more knowledge enlighten us on how it is possible to hit a fade with a bowed wrist. A detailed explaination would be awesome, because I just can't conceptualize how this is possible. (I think we are all assuming in - out - in path)

 

 

also Leekgolf, which thread did you have in mind on the Brian Manzella forum? I tried looking but could not find anything.

 

thanks all.

take a golf club in your left wrist where the shaft is perpendicular to the ground...then arch your wrist, so the shaft leans forward with the wrist... the more shaft lean, the more open the face is

[leftyshindig]

I'm hardly eloquent enough to explain this myself, so I will refer you to Bobby Clampett's Impact Zone. the main focus of the book seems to be the wrist position at impact. Check it out...

[progolf4life]

Re: 1.: I'd say you're hitting the ball as you should be -- but perhaps your loft and shaft aren't ideal for your swing. I've only just recently begun to work on bowing my left wrist at impact, and the ball wants to go a lot way when I do this, my accuracy has improved, and my ball flight is either the same or a tad higher. Based on all of this, I know that my impact position is much better, and that this is the way I should be hitting the ball.

 

Also, maybe your left wrist is correct at impact, but something else is wrong...

 

Re: 2.: What I've SEEN a lot of (in magazines, watching the pros on TV, etc.) is that at set up with the driver, the shaft and hands trail behind the clubhead slightly, and at impact the shaft, left arm, and driver head are all INLINE.

 

The higher the loft of the club, the more the tilt of the shaft might lean the opposite way at setup, such that the hands are ahead of the ball. This promotes a downward strike with the irons. (You don't want a downward strike with the driver.) But, with either, the impact position looks very similar, and that is with the hands, left arm, and shaft inline (with a bowed right wrist).

 

If the shaft of the driver were tilting away from the head at impact, it would suggest that you "casted" the club (something I know I struggle with), likely resulting in a hook.

 

Sure wish I could get in the right impact position more often than not!

 

/< / /2 /<

 

As far as the driver is concerned, it depends on where the ball is played, usually at low point, and in fact, there is a downward force, ideally you would rather a flat left wrist at impact but "arched" or bowed is far more acceptable then bent

 

You hit the nail on the head BUT with a bowed wrist it could mean a few things... you could have came too far on the inside and could catch the club up, you could have help your wrists too long, etc... this means that with a bowed wrist your trajectory/alignment/ballflight will all be altered and this means that your shot will not go where you want it too and actually this will lead to a loss in carry and total distance.

 

1) coming too far from the inside would be a plane issue and not a wrist condition, 2) "holding the wrists" im assuming your talking about maintaining wristcock too long (?) would deal with handspeed and bending of the right elbow, 3) your ball flight would only be altered if your normal stroke pattern uses a flat left wrist im not advoating an arched wrist but you could use it to produce ideal shots

 

1) Yes it could be a plane issue but it also could result in the bowing of the wrist.

2) Yes

3) Your ballflight would be altered if the wrist is bowed because in a properly strucken shot it should be flat.

[tbyeaton0627]

Re: 1.: I'd say you're hitting the ball as you should be -- but perhaps your loft and shaft aren't ideal for your swing. I've only just recently begun to work on bowing my left wrist at impact, and the ball wants to go a lot way when I do this, my accuracy has improved, and my ball flight is either the same or a tad higher. Based on all of this, I know that my impact position is much better, and that this is the way I should be hitting the ball.

 

Also, maybe your left wrist is correct at impact, but something else is wrong...

 

Re: 2.: What I've SEEN a lot of (in magazines, watching the pros on TV, etc.) is that at set up with the driver, the shaft and hands trail behind the clubhead slightly, and at impact the shaft, left arm, and driver head are all INLINE.

 

The higher the loft of the club, the more the tilt of the shaft might lean the opposite way at setup, such that the hands are ahead of the ball. This promotes a downward strike with the irons. (You don't want a downward strike with the driver.) But, with either, the impact position looks very similar, and that is with the hands, left arm, and shaft inline (with a bowed right wrist).

 

If the shaft of the driver were tilting away from the head at impact, it would suggest that you "casted" the club (something I know I struggle with), likely resulting in a hook.

 

Sure wish I could get in the right impact position more often than not!

 

/< / /2 /<

 

As far as the driver is concerned, it depends on where the ball is played, usually at low point, and in fact, there is a downward force, ideally you would rather a flat left wrist at impact but "arched" or bowed is far more acceptable then bent

 

You hit the nail on the head BUT with a bowed wrist it could mean a few things... you could have came too far on the inside and could catch the club up, you could have help your wrists too long, etc... this means that with a bowed wrist your trajectory/alignment/ballflight will all be altered and this means that your shot will not go where you want it too and actually this will lead to a loss in carry and total distance.

 

1) coming too far from the inside would be a plane issue and not a wrist condition, 2) "holding the wrists" im assuming your talking about maintaining wristcock too long (?) would deal with handspeed and bending of the right elbow, 3) your ball flight would only be altered if your normal stroke pattern uses a flat left wrist im not advoating an arched wrist but you could use it to produce ideal shots

 

1) Yes it could be a plane issue but it also could result in the bowing of the wrist.

2) Yes

3) Your ballflight would be altered if the wrist is bowed because in a properly strucken shot it should be flat.

 

Coming too inside is NOT a wrist condition it IS a plane issue and would NOT cause a bowed left wrist, however a bowed left wrist could be the reason for coming to far from the inside, maintaing the wrist **** too long would not have a bowed left wrist becuase cocking and uncocking occurs in one plane while bowing the wrist and bending the wrist occurs in a seperate plane of motion...and if someone plays with a bowed wrist then that is part of their stokre pattern... a flat left wrist does not literally mean flat all the time it means GEOMETRICALLY FLAT... an in-line condition witth the club and arm...would i teach someone to arch their wrist at impact? NO...have i had students that do?....yes

[progolf4life]

Coming too inside is NOT a wrist condition it IS a plane issue and would NOT cause a bowed left wrist, however a bowed left wrist could be the reason for coming to far from the inside, maintaing the wrist **** too long would not have a bowed left wrist becuase cocking and uncocking occurs in one plane while bowing the wrist and bending the wrist occurs in a seperate plane of motion...and if someone plays with a bowed wrist then that is part of their stokre pattern... a flat left wrist does not literally mean flat all the time it means GEOMETRICALLY FLAT... an in-line condition witth the club and arm...would i teach someone to arch their wrist at impact? NO...have i had students that do?....yes

 

You basically just contradicted yourself with what you said in the bolded statement... And yes if you do hold your wrist **** too long then yes if you go to turn through the ball then you could have a bowed wrist if the club was not properly release. Would you like to explain yourself on the whole "cocking and uncocking occurs in one plane while bowing the wrist and bending the wrist occurs in a seperate plane of motion." ????

 

P.S: "and if someone plays with a bowed wrist then that is part of their stokre pattern." We all know this and if someone makes an OTT move then it is also apart of their stroke* pattern.

[tbyeaton0627]

cocking and uncocking occurs in a vertical plane, bending and arching occurs in a horizontal plane, p.s its a CAUSE AND EFFECT...one is a Cause, the other is an EFFECT...i did not contradict myself read it more closely

[progolf4life]

cocking and uncocking occurs in a vertical plane, bending and arching occurs in a horizontal plane, p.s its a CAUSE AND EFFECT...one is a Cause, the other is an EFFECT...i did not contradict myself read it more closely

 

That makes sense to me now. Thanks for explaining it. So, if I have this right then if you could to far inside you would have to start the horizontal movement too soon which would make that movement longer than it should thus creating the bowed wrist. And the bowed wrist could be because you couldn't clear your hips right? If the bowed wrist didn't happen with those swing faults then casting would occur if I got this right.

 

A lot of people would have been really impacient so I appreciate you explaining it.

[Jim_0068]

lol, this thread is funny.

 

Bottom line, a flat or slightly arched wrist is preferrable at impact. Which you use is your choice. Want to play more of a fade? Arch it. Want to play more of a normal shot or draw? Keep it flat.

 

[tbyeaton0627]

lol, this thread is funny.

 

Bottom line, a flat or slightly arched wrist is preferrable at impact. Which you use is your choice. Want to play more of a fade? Arch it. Want to play more of a normal shot or draw? Keep it flat.

 

 

done

[KMeloney]

This thread IS funny! Especially since it APPEARS as though some folks think that by "bowed" I meant "cupped" -- and I didn't.

 

I have a swing sequence of Luke Donald sitting on my desktop. In the impact frame (which is actually just AFTER impact), his left wrist is straight-to-bowed. There's no question about it. And I'd say his swing is pretty good.

 

Check out Hogan's "Five Lessons." He describes the left wrist at impact there. I think it's a good model. Incidentally, that's who "informed" me.

 

/< / /2 /<

[KMeloney]

Wait a minute -- I just went back and looked, and the same guy who asked the question is the same one who responded that what I might be doing (and what he claimed he was doing) is wrong. LOL

 

PG4L, if you have a handle on the "answer," then why are you asking the question??

 

Oh well. There's plenty of comic value in this thread anyway.

 

Good luck!

 

/< / /2 /<

[ej002]

I think Hogan called that "suppination" (bowed shut face), but he later said "forget all that business about suppination". Either way, i am not entirely sure he did that on purpose, I think the force of his club head squaring up did that for him.

[leekgolf]

I think Hogan called that "suppination" (bowed shut face), but he later said "forget all that business about suppination". Either way, i am not entirely sure he did that on purpose, I think the force of his club head squaring up did that for him.

 

Actually, when referring to pronation and supination, Hogan was referring to a swivel. Hogan swiveled the club open on the backswing, then swiveled closed. Until he discovered a weak grip, he hooked the ball off the golf course.

[ej002]

He did talk about fanning the club open, but he talked about bowing his wrist too. He said something about Jimmy Demarit being the best at it. Hitting low balls with spin, by bowing the wrist. (delofting the club).