3W vs Driver off the tee

[pinestreetgolf]

How many fairways are not straight in front of you? lol.....if you cant assume that is part of the equation, i cant help you there.....if you assumed it to be "Hit it straight into the rough or behind a tree", i don't know what to tell you.....it was about control....hitting straight is control....slicing or pushing isn't.....

 

Quite a few. I'm assuming by this post you don't cut off many doglegs.

[rawdog]

Now you are saying these people have mental issues? That is so wrong, its not even funny.

 

One more try to explain it to you.

 

 

 

Four shots, with a 5 iron, a 3 hybrid, a 3 wood and a driver. Two in the fairway (5 iron, hybrid). One in the woods (3 wood). One OB (Driver). They are identically accurate (2* open). In the contest of a fitting (your OP) if you cut down your shaft and you simply move backwards on the same line you are no more accurate, just shorter, but you might be fooled (the hybrid in the fairway in this picture looks more accurate than the 3 wood in the woods, but it isn't). If you cut down your shaft and the line *actually moves closer* to the target line by more than the distance you lose, you might be a candidate for a cut down driver. A cut down driver can even get *longer* if you hit it in the face more often and create more ballspeed, but you need to make sure your gearing down off the tee is making you more accurate not just shorter. Shorter always appears more accurate and can mask swing / playing flaws.

 

EDIT

Obviously the target and vector lines should be straight, I don't draw well enough in MS Paint. Path also plays a part, but its the same principle.

 

Just as long as neither of you refer to these as "paintings" anymore. Da Vinci is rolling over in his grave... now stop "painting" and go pick up your ex's kids...

[rawdog]

How many fairways are not straight in front of you? lol.....if you cant assume that is part of the equation, i cant help you there.....if you assumed it to be "Hit it straight into the rough or behind a tree", i don't know what to tell you.....it was about control....hitting straight is control....slicing or pushing isn't.....

 

Quite a few. I'm assuming by this post you don't cut off many doglegs.

 

I try not to play any courses where I can't hit my "dead straight" ball.

[tsecor]

How many fairways are not straight in front of you? lol.....if you cant assume that is part of the equation, i cant help you there.....if you assumed it to be "Hit it straight into the rough or behind a tree", i don't know what to tell you.....it was about control....hitting straight is control....slicing or pushing isn't.....

 

Quite a few. I'm assuming by this post you don't cut off many doglegs.

fairway still in front of you....but unlike you, i don't hit a driver 320 all day as you posted earlier....look out Rory!

[rawdog]

How many fairways are not straight in front of you? lol.....if you cant assume that is part of the equation, i cant help you there.....if you assumed it to be "Hit it straight into the rough or behind a tree", i don't know what to tell you.....it was about control....hitting straight is control....slicing or pushing isn't.....

 

Quite a few. I'm assuming by this post you don't cut off many doglegs.

fairway still in front of you....but unlike you, i don't hit a driver 320 all day as you posted earlier....look out Rory!

 

The genesis of this thread is coming into view.

[tsecor]

 

What is going on here? I don't think you mentioned "fairway" once in your original post. You mentioned hitting it straight. I even quoted your OP above.

 

Is the argument now that 3w is easier to aim than a driver? You're changing so many variables that it's impossible to determine what is making the difference in outcome.

 

Arguing that PSG should've hit 3w here is a pretty silly argument. If he hit it "dead accurate" but the only issue was aiming 30 yards right, then I wouldn't tell him to grab a 3w, I'd tell him to aim 30 yards left :)

How many fairways are not straight in front of you? lol.....if you cant assume that is part of the equation, i cant help you there.....if you assumed it to be "Hit it straight into the rough or behind a tree", i don't know what to tell you.....it was about control....hitting straight is control....slicing or pushing isn't.....

 

If the two can be interchanged so easily, why so much grief over using angular deviation as a measure?

 

To the bolded part, I want to be clear what you're saying there. Are you saying someone has to hit the ball with no shaping left or right to be in control? I don't know about you, but I don't play too many tee shots where I don't commit to a shot shape.

......im an amateur.....i hit it straight when i can.......that's all i can commit to.....you "scratch" golfers are much better than me and utilize GPS, vectors, barometers and other pieces of technology that I just don't......im more like a tour player in that regard.....i pick my line, look at my yardage book and swing away.

[tsecor]

How many fairways are not straight in front of you? lol.....if you cant assume that is part of the equation, i cant help you there.....if you assumed it to be "Hit it straight into the rough or behind a tree", i don't know what to tell you.....it was about control....hitting straight is control....slicing or pushing isn't.....

 

Quite a few. I'm assuming by this post you don't cut off many doglegs.

fairway still in front of you....but unlike you, i don't hit a driver 320 all day as you posted earlier....look out Rory!

 

The genesis of this thread is coming into view.

its sure is!!

 

so what are your thoughts on getting fit with a shorter driver shaft and a smaller head for better control? as an amateur that is......

[rawdog]

 

What is going on here? I don't think you mentioned "fairway" once in your original post. You mentioned hitting it straight. I even quoted your OP above.

 

Is the argument now that 3w is easier to aim than a driver? You're changing so many variables that it's impossible to determine what is making the difference in outcome.

 

Arguing that PSG should've hit 3w here is a pretty silly argument. If he hit it "dead accurate" but the only issue was aiming 30 yards right, then I wouldn't tell him to grab a 3w, I'd tell him to aim 30 yards left :)

How many fairways are not straight in front of you? lol.....if you cant assume that is part of the equation, i cant help you there.....if you assumed it to be "Hit it straight into the rough or behind a tree", i don't know what to tell you.....it was about control....hitting straight is control....slicing or pushing isn't.....

 

If the two can be interchanged so easily, why so much grief over using angular deviation as a measure?

 

To the bolded part, I want to be clear what you're saying there. Are you saying someone has to hit the ball with no shaping left or right to be in control? I don't know about you, but I don't play too many tee shots where I don't commit to a shot shape.

......im an amateur So am I.....i hit it straight when i can.......that's all i can commit to.....you "scratch" I'm an 8.6 golfers are much better than me and utilize GPS, vectors, barometers I actually jokingly asked about barometric pressure during my round Sunday and other pieces of technology that I just don't......im more like a tour player in that regard.....i pick my line, look at my yardage book and swing away. Most tour players seem to shape their shots. They do not attempt "dead straight" shots from what I see and have read on golfwrx.

 

I'm not trying to be mean or rude here, but are most amateurs really just aiming for the middle of the fairway and hoping to hit it dead straight?

 

Even the most rudimentary players I've played with acknowledge their natural shot shape and play to that. Most are slicers who adjust by aiming left. I am fortunate to be able to select shot shape most of the time. It's from working on curing a slice. I picked up a nice draw, but can still revert back to a controlled fade or slice. I have degrees of misses (I've had a ton of balls not come back left, trust me!)

 

If this thread is based on the idea that players are trying to achieve dead straight ball flight, I find that concept to be a bit unrealistic.

 

And dude, don't be so down on yourself. I don't care if you don't use GPS (I don't for most of my rounds). And I guarantee no one cares how far you can hit it.

 

Serious question, do you have a preferred shot shape? Or a natural shot shape? Or do you go for a straight ball and see what happens?

 

I have a friend who can straight up mash a ball. 300+ carry, 340+ when it's rolling. He cannot tell me to save his life whether the ball will draw or fade. He can't feel the club face/path relationship. So he aims for the middle of fairways and rolls the dice with a two-way miss. If that's you, it's not THAT uncommon, but I'd say most people are not like you and my buddy. Most people with a few years of golf experience can replicate a particular shot shape (no telling to what degree it will be replicated) the majority of the time.

 

How many fairways are not straight in front of you? lol.....if you cant assume that is part of the equation, i cant help you there.....if you assumed it to be "Hit it straight into the rough or behind a tree", i don't know what to tell you.....it was about control....hitting straight is control....slicing or pushing isn't.....

 

Quite a few. I'm assuming by this post you don't cut off many doglegs.

fairway still in front of you....but unlike you, i don't hit a driver 320 all day as you posted earlier....look out Rory!

 

The genesis of this thread is coming into view.

its sure is!!

 

so what are your thoughts on getting fit with a shorter driver shaft and a smaller head for better control? as an amateur that is......

 

I'm heading into a meeting at 2 here, but I'll show you some real-life photos from my driver fitting that I think you'll enjoy (not sarcasm).

[pinestreetgolf]

im an amateur.....i hit it straight when i can.......that's all i can commit to.....you "scratch" golfers are much better than me and utilize GPS, vectors, barometers and other pieces of technology that I just don't......im more like a tour player in that regard.....i pick my line, look at my yardage book and swing away.

 

Tour players use the most advanced technology in existence to track their stats. They call it shotlink.

[chippa13]

......im an amateur.....i hit it straight when i can.......that's all i can commit to.....you "scratch" golfers are much better than me and utilize GPS, vectors, barometers and other pieces of technology that I just don't......im more like a tour player in that regard.....i pick my line, look at my yardage book and swing away.

 

Weird, I guesstimate the yardage and then pick the club and pick the line.

[rawdog]

Secor, while I'm gone, guess the lengths of each of these shafts... keep in mind I'm an 8.6. Then guess which one is in my bag :)

 

All you need to know about my thoughts on shaft length!

[ZA206]

I hit my 3W alot more off the tee than I do my driver, on my home course from my normal tees. Here is my normal breakdown:

 

Driver = 3 tee shots

3W = 7 tee shots

3H = 4 tee shots

 

My home course is nasty off the tee with ravines, deep bunkering, water and heavily sloped areas in and around landing areas in the fairways. In most instances, the reward of another 20-30 yards closer to the hole is NOT worth the risk of taking a double or worse. I back off and do my best to eliminate the chance of blow up holes. Bad swings happen, but I hit awesome looking drives off the tee on this course (with driver) that got absolutely HOSED.

 

I'm generally very accurate with my 3W and 3H, but not as much with the driver. I think'd I'd be much more accurate with the driver if I hit it more often. It's hard to get into a groove when you only hit it 3 times a round.

 

I score my best when I work on my short game and putting..... who would have thought! hahahaah.....

 

-ZA

[Orange Hog]

My 3 wood carries around 230 yards and (according to Game Golf) puts me in the fairway around 70-80% of the time in regulation. Driver carries another 20-25 yards but the accuracy drops off a bit (around 50-60% FIR). For me it really depends on the layout of the hole and yardage. If I'm under 380 yards I'll hit 3W off the tee, unless the fairway is really wide open. If the hole is longer than 380 yards then I'm hitting driver.

 

Just so we are clear here, you are a 12 handicap and you hit 55% of fairways with a 255 yard drive on average? And you hit the fairway at 230 75% of the time with a 3 wood?

 

I am never playing the people in this thread for money. Holy cow. You must be literally the worst putter of all time. The average scratch golfer is 47% fairways (Again, assuming 30 yards wide - "fairway" isn't a math construct) at 251 yards. The PGA tour median is 276 at 61.1%. So, as a 12 cap, on average, you are about 20 yards shorter and 5% less accurate than a touring professional (its not 10% because 5% of the accuracy comes from "backing up" on the same line).

 

I'm not calling you out or anything. If you kept your stats, great job those are tremendous results. I keep my stats really close as a 1.8 cap and you are significantly better off the tee than I am.

 

First off, no I'm not the worst putter of all time. My average putts per round is around 31-32. Not great but not what I'd call terrible by any stretch either.

 

I had to go back and look at Game Golf and I was a bit conservative in my previous post. My average driver distance is actually 262 yards and 3 wood is 236 yards.

 

As a 12 handicap I don't tend to lose most of my strokes off the tee. The majority of strokes I give up to a Scratch golfer is on approach shots (GIR) and short game (mostly 75-100 yard shots). That's an area that I've worked very hard on over the past year and continue to work on.

 

My 3 wood carries around 230 yards and (according to Game Golf) puts me in the fairway around 70-80% of the time in regulation. Driver carries another 20-25 yards but the accuracy drops off a bit (around 50-60% FIR). For me it really depends on the layout of the hole and yardage. If I'm under 380 yards I'll hit 3W off the tee, unless the fairway is really wide open. If the hole is longer than 380 yards then I'm hitting driver.

 

Just so we are clear here, you are a 12 handicap and you hit 55% of fairways with a 255 yard drive on average? And you hit the fairway at 230 75% of the time with a 3 wood?

 

I am never playing the people in this thread for money. Holy cow. You must be literally the worst putter of all time. The average scratch golfer is 47% fairways (Again, assuming 30 yards wide - "fairway" isn't a math construct) at 251 yards.

just goes to show you stats can be manipulated any way you need to....

 

I don't manipulate any of my stats. Game Golf is pretty simple. Walk to the ball, tag your club, hit ball.

 

Nice try, though.

[pinestreetgolf]

 

First off, no I'm not the worst putter of all time. My average putts per round is around 31-32. Not great but not what I'd call terrible by any stretch either.

 

I had to go back and look at Game Golf and I was a bit conservative in my previous post. My average driver distance is actually 262 yards and 3 wood is 236 yards.

 

As a 12 handicap I don't tend to lose most of my strokes off the tee. The majority of strokes I give up to a Scratch golfer is on approach shots (GIR) and short game (mostly 75-100 yard shots). That's an area that I've worked very hard on over the past year and continue to work on.

 

I don't manipulate any of my stats. Game Golf is pretty simple. Walk to the ball, tag your club, hit ball.

 

Nice try, though.

 

So you are a twelve cap who hits 55% of his fairways at 262 yards of distance. Impressive. Its also insanely impressive its exactly 55% (not 53 or 54).

 

I don't get it though, if all you do is tap it, hit, and tap it how does Game Golf know your in the fairway to calculate the 55%?

[rawdog]

First off, no I'm not the worst putter of all time. My average putts per round is around 31-32. Not great but not what I'd call terrible by any stretch either.

 

I had to go back and look at Game Golf and I was a bit conservative in my previous post. My average driver distance is actually 262 yards and 3 wood is 236 yards.

 

As a 12 handicap I don't tend to lose most of my strokes off the tee. The majority of strokes I give up to a Scratch golfer is on approach shots (GIR) and short game (mostly 75-100 yard shots). That's an area that I've worked very hard on over the past year and continue to work on.

 

I don't manipulate any of my stats. Game Golf is pretty simple. Walk to the ball, tag your club, hit ball.

 

Nice try, though.

 

So you are a twelve cap who hits 55% of his fairways at 262 yards of distance. Impressive. Its also insanely impressive its exactly 55% (not 53 or 54).

 

I don't get it though, if all you do is tap it, hit, and tap it how does Game Golf know your in the fairway to calculate the 55%?

 

Geofencing. Accuracy of geofencing is limited to the accuracy of the GPS. I mean this as a neutral statement.

[Orange Hog]

First off, no I'm not the worst putter of all time. My average putts per round is around 31-32. Not great but not what I'd call terrible by any stretch either.

 

I had to go back and look at Game Golf and I was a bit conservative in my previous post. My average driver distance is actually 262 yards and 3 wood is 236 yards.

 

As a 12 handicap I don't tend to lose most of my strokes off the tee. The majority of strokes I give up to a Scratch golfer is on approach shots (GIR) and short game (mostly 75-100 yard shots). That's an area that I've worked very hard on over the past year and continue to work on.

 

I don't manipulate any of my stats. Game Golf is pretty simple. Walk to the ball, tag your club, hit ball.

 

Nice try, though.

 

So you are a twelve cap who hits 55% of his fairways at 262 yards of distance. Impressive. Its also insanely impressive its exactly 55% (not 53 or 54).

 

I don't get it though, if all you do is tap it, hit, and tap it how does Game Golf know your in the fairway to calculate the 55%?

 

Google Game Golf and check it out for yourself. Great bit of technology, similar to Arccos.

[JunkerJorge]

 

Were you a very low cap at one point? 57% on 257 is *really* good (I'm assuming a standard 30 yard wide fairway, so 15 either side). I'm a low single digit and play mini-tours occasionally without making a fool of myself and that is only slightly behind me. I'm longer but less accurate, but I would never think a 7 would put up numbers like that.

 

Nope. This is actually the first year I've even had a handicap. But if you want an insight as to why I'm a 7/6 handicap and not scratch, look at these stats.

 

 

Out of the 37 rounds I've played in 2017, my driving has been the best part of my game. I'm nearly losing 5 strokes a round due to my short game. And not much better on my approach. Putting could be better, but is pretty on par with my handicap.

 

That's pretty cool. Is this from an app?

[tsecor]

im an amateur.....i hit it straight when i can.......that's all i can commit to.....you "scratch" golfers are much better than me and utilize GPS, vectors, barometers and other pieces of technology that I just don't......im more like a tour player in that regard.....i pick my line, look at my yardage book and swing away.

 

Tour players use the most advanced technology in existence to track their stats. They call it shotlink.

once again, you miss the point..you either purposely do that or you really don't get it......I don't really care to know, but if you are going to respond to me, please keep it in the fairway and not in the rough like you have been the whole time

[tsecor]

First off, no I'm not the worst putter of all time. My average putts per round is around 31-32. Not great but not what I'd call terrible by any stretch either.

 

I had to go back and look at Game Golf and I was a bit conservative in my previous post. My average driver distance is actually 262 yards and 3 wood is 236 yards.

 

As a 12 handicap I don't tend to lose most of my strokes off the tee. The majority of strokes I give up to a Scratch golfer is on approach shots (GIR) and short game (mostly 75-100 yard shots). That's an area that I've worked very hard on over the past year and continue to work on.

 

I don't manipulate any of my stats. Game Golf is pretty simple. Walk to the ball, tag your club, hit ball.

 

Nice try, though.

 

So you are a twelve cap who hits 55% of his fairways at 262 yards of distance. Impressive. Its also insanely impressive its exactly 55% (not 53 or 54).

 

I don't get it though, if all you do is tap it, hit, and tap it how does Game Golf know your in the fairway to calculate the 55%?

why is 55% so unbelievable? its becoming clear who manipulates data and who doesnt

 

time to close the thread.....PSG has once again tried to hijack the thread for his own liking.

[pinestreetgolf]

First off, no I'm not the worst putter of all time. My average putts per round is around 31-32. Not great but not what I'd call terrible by any stretch either.

 

I had to go back and look at Game Golf and I was a bit conservative in my previous post. My average driver distance is actually 262 yards and 3 wood is 236 yards.

 

As a 12 handicap I don't tend to lose most of my strokes off the tee. The majority of strokes I give up to a Scratch golfer is on approach shots (GIR) and short game (mostly 75-100 yard shots). That's an area that I've worked very hard on over the past year and continue to work on.

 

I don't manipulate any of my stats. Game Golf is pretty simple. Walk to the ball, tag your club, hit ball.

 

Nice try, though.

 

So you are a twelve cap who hits 55% of his fairways at 262 yards of distance. Impressive. Its also insanely impressive its exactly 55% (not 53 or 54).

 

I don't get it though, if all you do is tap it, hit, and tap it how does Game Golf know your in the fairway to calculate the 55%?

why is 55% so unbelievable? its becoming clear who manipulates data and who doesnttime to close the thread.....PSG has once again tried to hijack the thread for his own liking.

 

I said it was incredibly impressive not unbelievable. My post is literally quoted above yours.

[tsecor]

First off, no I'm not the worst putter of all time. My average putts per round is around 31-32. Not great but not what I'd call terrible by any stretch either.

 

I had to go back and look at Game Golf and I was a bit conservative in my previous post. My average driver distance is actually 262 yards and 3 wood is 236 yards.

 

As a 12 handicap I don't tend to lose most of my strokes off the tee. The majority of strokes I give up to a Scratch golfer is on approach shots (GIR) and short game (mostly 75-100 yard shots). That's an area that I've worked very hard on over the past year and continue to work on.

 

I don't manipulate any of my stats. Game Golf is pretty simple. Walk to the ball, tag your club, hit ball.

 

Nice try, though.

 

So you are a twelve cap who hits 55% of his fairways at 262 yards of distance. Impressive. Its also insanely impressive its exactly 55% (not 53 or 54).

 

I don't get it though, if all you do is tap it, hit, and tap it how does Game Golf know your in the fairway to calculate the 55%?

why is 55% so unbelievable? its becoming clear who manipulates data and who doesnttime to close the thread.....PSG has once again tried to hijack the thread for his own liking.

 

I said it was incredibly impressive not unbelievable. My post is literally quoted above yours.

and your post literally is a sad commentary on how you conduct yourself when someone doesn't agree with your point of view.......almost like the slur you had against people with "mental issues" as you described it. Very sad how you pulled only part of your quote, but everyone can see the sarcasm

 

"Its also insanely impressive its exactly 55% (not 53 or 54).

 

I don't get it though, if all you do is tap it, hit, and tap it how does Game Golf know your in the fairway to calculate the 55%?"

[tsecor]

MODS. I THINK ITS TIME TO CLOSE THE THREAD. its run its usefulness

 

thanks

[chippa13]

Can we stop misusing the word literally?

[JeffreySpicoli]

Can we stop misusing the word literally?

 

Don't even start. So many sentences begin with an uncapitalized letter.

 

E. B. White can't cease rolling in his grave.

[matchavez]

im not mocking it. Im just saying his theory doesn't hold water, especially when you playa course like erin hills and your theory doesn't hold water either....but were off point anyway....the topic is the 3w vs driver.....should fitting be changed? I mean if you get on a monitor and field test a driver with a much shorter shaft but hit it straight and 20 yard shorter, shouldn't that be factored in?

 

Its pretty on-point, actually. You arn't getting straighter. Your just getting shorter on the same line.

 

 

 

Which golfer is the "most accurate", 1, 2, 3 or 4? Two are in the fairway, ones in the trees, one is OB. Are 1 and 2, in your mind, "more accurate" than 3 and 4? (pretend the red ballflight line is straight). If you had to place a bet on which of these players was the best based solely on this diagram, which would you pick?

 

If shortening the shaft changes the line, it should be done. But if it just reduces speed so you are shorter on the same line, its silly.

 

More to the point, which golfer, above, would you rather be? I mean, two of them are in the fairway...

 

This is helpful. If you think of accuracy in terms of degrees offline then your driver may be as or more accurate than other clubs. However, on a tight hole w OB a driver at x degrees offline may be OB whereas a hybrid is fine. Accuracy may not be the correct term but a shorter club brings less trouble into play. Depending on your miss range some people, as Harvey Penick said, might be better off with the Driver in their closet.

 

I would take any of those positions over OB.

 

The point isn't that hole. Its that being in the fairway and accuracy don't have that much to do with each other. Shorter hitters arn't more accurate, but they are in the fairway a whole lot more. Being in the fairway is a cocktail of aim line, club choice, distance and impact. Being accurate is your path and face at impact. Its insane to purposefully make yourself shorter to be in the fairway more. Its an optical illusion. Your not more accurate, you are just shorter. A whole lot of people get fooled by this. Missing the same just shorter isn't better. Its worse. There may be some holes where its better in the short-term, but over time its much worse to miss short on the same line than long.

 

Nobody ever misses a fairway and says "dang, I hit it too far for that aim line", but that is usually what is actually happening. Its not your accuracy *unless* you isolate the variable. You have no idea if you are 1,2,3 or 4 in the drawing above. Until/unless you do, you can't fix it no matter how many times you get fit.

 

I'd say none of them should be hitting driver. The first two obviously can't take advantage of any increased distance and the second 2 are very out of control with it.

 

Which do you think is the most accurate?

 

Three earlier posters had said they want accuracy so they can be in the fairway. That was the question I asked you, not what club should someone hit.

 

I think the disconnect here is that everyone is generally right. PSG is absolutely right about the stats. Everyone considering being in the cabbage behind a tree, etc. also right.

 

The part about Broadie's study was that it assumed you didn't get in trouble. As soon as your shot is obstructed, the strokes gained goes out the window. However, it is clearly a fact that, fliers included, your proximity to the pin is absolutely going to be better with an 8-iron in rough vs a 6-iron from the centre of the fairway. It's irrefutable. The book is fantastic in that way.

 

So, what a fairway wood can be is for someone looking to stay out of the nasties. I think PSG would agree strongly that driver should not be avoided because you're worried about rough. If you're worried about worse-than-rough, manage your game. But there is a lot of unnecessary concern about the first cut of rough. Unless your rough is unplayable and truly unpleasant, it is probably not as bad as you think in altering the outcome of shots.

[Squirrels]

My 4W isn't really any more dependable than my driver. When I'm playing a tight hole where I absolutely need to hit the fairway and I haven't been driving well, I use my 3 hybrid. I'm usually not playing very long courses though so that still usually leaves me a mid iron or less into the green, playing a 7000 yard course would be another story.

 

I am with you on the 3 hybrid use. It is my accuracy tee club. My 5W is primarily a downshift / take off 25 yards option against the driver, and maybe a bit more "there is no way I can go right" feeling.

[JeffreySpicoli]

 

I think the disconnect here is that everyone is generally right. PSG is absolutely right about the stats. Everyone considering being in the cabbage behind a tree, etc. also right.

 

The part about Broadie's study was that it assumed you didn't get in trouble. As soon as your shot is obstructed, the strokes gained goes out the window. However, it is clearly a fact that, fliers included, your proximity to the pin is absolutely going to be better with an 8-iron in rough vs a 6-iron from the centre of the fairway. It's irrefutable. The book is fantastic in that way.

 

So, what a fairway wood can be is for someone looking to stay out of the nasties. I think PSG would agree strongly that driver should not be avoided because you're worried about rough. If you're worried about worse-than-rough, manage your game. But there is a lot of unnecessary concern about the first cut of rough. Unless your rough is unplayable and truly unpleasant, it is probably not as bad as you think in altering the outcome of shots.

 

Nice post.

 

I'll add that, IMO, Scott Fawcett's work extends Broadie's in a way that directly addresses what club to hit, when, and why. If this thread focused more on Fawcett than Broadie, there would be more consensus, more quickly.

[bobfoster]

Can we stop misusing the word literally?

 

Don't even start. So many sentences begin with an uncapitalized letter.

 

E. B. White can't cease rolling in his grave.

 

But e.e. cummings is happy! (Haha).

[hybrid25]

Steel shafted driver.

[matchavez]

 

I think the disconnect here is that everyone is generally right. PSG is absolutely right about the stats. Everyone considering being in the cabbage behind a tree, etc. also right.

 

The part about Broadie's study was that it assumed you didn't get in trouble. As soon as your shot is obstructed, the strokes gained goes out the window. However, it is clearly a fact that, fliers included, your proximity to the pin is absolutely going to be better with an 8-iron in rough vs a 6-iron from the centre of the fairway. It's irrefutable. The book is fantastic in that way.

 

So, what a fairway wood can be is for someone looking to stay out of the nasties. I think PSG would agree strongly that driver should not be avoided because you're worried about rough. If you're worried about worse-than-rough, manage your game. But there is a lot of unnecessary concern about the first cut of rough. Unless your rough is unplayable and truly unpleasant, it is probably not as bad as you think in altering the outcome of shots.

 

Nice post.

 

I'll add that, IMO, Scott Fawcett's work extends Broadie's in a way that directly addresses what club to hit, when, and why. If this thread focused more on Fawcett than Broadie, there would be more consensus, more quickly.

 

If his work was a book instead of a pricy subscription, we probably would be!