Callaway purchased Travis Matthews?

[Bubby6]

I'm just curious what makes people think right away that Callaway's ownership will have such a negative effect on the brand? I'll admit I'm a fan of most things Callaway but, what about their history and more important, recent history, that makes you just to that conclusion? It's also well noted that the quality of this brand has slipped in the past couple years. Might be the help they need to get back on track.

 

Probably has to do with the Apparel that Callaway currently produces. Which, I assume they realize sucks, which is why they made the move to acquire TM. And I assume they won't suddenly overhaul TM to produce anything like what they currently produce under the Cally apparel line, I would imagine they'll remain pretty hands off with regard to the TM brand. At least, if they are smart anyway.

 

More misinformation and fake news. Callaway apparel is produced by a licensee, Perry Ellis in this case. Yes, Callaway probably has a pressing interest in the quality of anything produced with the Callaway brand on it, but they currently produce no apparel.

[misplacedtexan83]

I wonder if it will be like the Ogio brand...

 

Ogio continues to produce equipment under their own name just with Callaway backing..

 

So, maybe TM will keep producing their merchandise the same way.

 

I for one would like to see some TM clothes come with Callaway logo and some callaway bags come with the silencer technology..

[sharkiesj]

I'd like to see some more SA t-shirts now.

 

How bout..... No more RocketBladez.

 

Or.......Adams, ever heard of them before?

 

 

[tbowles411]

I wonder if it will be like the Ogio brand...

 

Ogio continues to produce equipment under their own name just with Callaway backing..

 

So, maybe TM will keep producing their merchandise the same way.

 

I for one would like to see some TM clothes come with Callaway logo and some callaway bags come with the silencer technology..

THIS

 

People are flipping out over nothing.

[Matt J]

Callaway has the worst apparel in golf. They could have started up a company easier than running TM. Another huge loss move for another golf company.

[xjohnx]

I wonder if it will be like the Ogio brand...

 

Ogio continues to produce equipment under their own name just with Callaway backing..

 

So, maybe TM will keep producing their merchandise the same way.

 

I for one would like to see some TM clothes come with Callaway logo and some callaway bags come with the silencer technology..

THIS

 

People are flipping out over nothing.

 

I think people still have a bad taste in their mouth about what TM did with Adams.

 

But I agree. I don't know what their plans are but, I would think if you're a profitable company with the cash to buy other profitable companies to grow your reach outside the game allowing potential added sustainability WHILE simultaneously growing your bottom line, it just sounds like a smart thing to do. No reason to think much would change at all. Could simply be a big game of monopoly.

[moonshine]

Stuff is $$$$ for no reason IMO. Hope that changes for the better now....

[TheMoneyShot]

I wonder if it will be like the Ogio brand...

 

Ogio continues to produce equipment under their own name just with Callaway backing..

 

So, maybe TM will keep producing their merchandise the same way.

 

I for one would like to see some TM clothes come with Callaway logo and some callaway bags come with the silencer technology..

THIS

 

People are flipping out over nothing.

 

It's fun seeing people flip out over nothing:)

[misplacedtexan83]

Callaway has the worst apparel in golf. They could have started up a company easier than running TM. Another huge loss move for another golf company.

 

I would say PING but every company should always work on improving rather than settling.

[xjohnx]

Callaway has the worst apparel in golf. They could have started up a company easier than running TM. Another huge loss move for another golf company.

 

This may be the most ignorant statement in this thread yet. You literally just said it would be easier to start a company from scratch than buy a successful company with $65m in annual sales?

 

If you guys hate callaway, why not just say it?

[tbowles411]

Callaway has the worst apparel in golf. They could have started up a company easier than running TM. Another huge loss move for another golf company.

 

I would say PING but every company should always work on improving rather than settling.

Lets be honest here. Callaway hasn't be relevant in clothing since they sold off Ashworth. Everything they did SUCKED. I told the reps so for the last 2 years at the PGA Show. We wouldn't stock it because it didn't sell. No one took it seriously. At least NOW, there is a relevant company that has operations in place, which won't probably change a thing because there is no reason to. They can now honestly get the 18-50 market now simply by letting them do what they're already doing. We looked at them strongly because they make stuff all the way to 3X. Their stuff is really good. Pricey, but good. No reasonable company will touch it inappropriately and mess it up.

 

TaylorMade you ask? They wanted Adams' technology. Nothing more. They offered them a lifeline and are in the process of killing it slowly. The Plano TX plant is shuttered. The Money Shot can attest to this on out TM trip years ago. I was the only one using Adams on the trip. They watched me hit hybrids out of the same divot for 5 minutes. A bunch of the fitters and none other then Brian Bozzell, their irons and woods guru. They said they had never seen anyone do that with a hybrid before. Their hybrids at the time couldn't dig the ball out like that. I said I assured them it was the hybrid, not me, because I sucked.

 

Callaway hasn't done soft goods well in forever. This is a great move for them.

[Llortamaisey]

I think everyone should relax and give Callaway a chance. They're just gonna put some chevrons on the polos. It's not like we are gonna see an Epic shirt with jailbreak technology.

[moonshine]

Callaway has the worst apparel in golf. They could have started up a company easier than running TM. Another huge loss move for another golf company.

 

I would say PING but every company should always work on improving rather than settling.

Ping clothing? Their shirts are extremely nice....and $$$$ as well.:(

[tbowles411]

Callaway has the worst apparel in golf. They could have started up a company easier than running TM. Another huge loss move for another golf company.

 

I would say PING but every company should always work on improving rather than settling.

Ping clothing? Their shirts are extremely nice....and $$$$ as well. :(

True on both counts. They're not trying to give them away, that's for sure!

[misplacedtexan83]

Callaway has the worst apparel in golf. They could have started up a company easier than running TM. Another huge loss move for another golf company.

 

I would say PING but every company should always work on improving rather than settling.

 

 

Callaway hasn't done soft goods well in forever. This is a great move for them.

 

Agree with the Adams move and why it happen.

 

We have had this discussion before and they were behind in this category for awhile.

 

However, they have made some smart moves like New balance designing their shoes now, ogio, and now TM.

 

While others are selling they are investing from soft goods to hard goods (Toulon, etc).

 

Footjoy/Titleist balls are the leaders that everyone is chasing.. if Callaway can just bite into that a little bit..$$$

[threeputz]

Quote from Chip Brewer during yesterdays' earnings conference call:

 

We spent considerable time getting to know the core management team at Travis and we're looking forward to partnering with them to continue to develop their business. Given our confidence in their team, we have no plans to consolidate the operations of this business, but will instead continue to operate it as an independent brand and subsidiary. They have been growing at double-digit rates and we believe are well positioned to continue on this path. The vast majority of their current revenue comes from inside the U.S. and primarily in golf distribution channels. We believe there is ample growth opportunity in these channels, as well as significant potential outside of the U.S. and outside of golf-specific product and channels.

 

 

The entire transcript is here:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4094681-callaway-golf-ely-q2-2017-results-earnings-call-transcript?part=single

 

Some of you guys might do some research before offering opinions that are based on total ignorance of the facts.

[tbowles411]

Quote from Chip Brewer during yesterdays' earnings conference call:

 

We spent considerable time getting to know the core management team at Travis and we're looking forward to partnering with them to continue to develop their business. Given our confidence in their team, we have no plans to consolidate the operations of this business, but will instead continue to operate it as an independent brand and subsidiary. They have been growing at double-digit rates and we believe are well positioned to continue on this path. The vast majority of their current revenue comes from inside the U.S. and primarily in golf distribution channels. We believe there is ample growth opportunity in these channels, as well as significant potential outside of the U.S. and outside of golf-specific product and channels.

 

 

The entire transcript is here:

https://seekingalpha...ipt?part=single

 

Some of you guys might do some research before offering opinions that are based on total ignorance of the facts.

And there it is.

[xjohnx]

Callaway has the worst apparel in golf. They could have started up a company easier than running TM. Another huge loss move for another golf company.

 

I would say PING but every company should always work on improving rather than settling.

Lets be honest here. Callaway hasn't be relevant in clothing since they sold off Ashworth. Everything they did SUCKED. I told the reps so for the last 2 years at the PGA Show. We wouldn't stock it because it didn't sell. No one took it seriously. At least NOW, there is a relevant company that has operations in place, which won't probably change a thing because there is no reason to. They can now honestly get the 18-50 market now simply by letting them do what they're already doing. We looked at them strongly because they make stuff all the way to 3X. Their stuff is really good. Pricey, but good. No reasonable company will touch it inappropriately and mess it up.

 

TaylorMade you ask? They wanted Adams' technology. Nothing more. They offered them a lifeline and are in the process of killing it slowly. The Plano TX plant is shuttered. The Money Shot can attest to this on out TM trip years ago. I was the only one using Adams on the trip. They watched me hit hybrids out of the same divot for 5 minutes. A bunch of the fitters and none other then Brian Bozzell, their irons and woods guru. They said they had never seen anyone do that with a hybrid before. Their hybrids at the time couldn't dig the ball out like that. I said I assured them it was the hybrid, not me, because I sucked.

 

Callaway hasn't done soft goods well in forever. This is a great move for them.

 

I think selling the callaway clothing in pro shops and specialty golf stores is tough given the other options at those price points and the fact that the Callaway stuff is constantly on crazy promo at Macy's and the polos are always at TJX stores for $19.99

[SilverBullets]

This deal makes perfect sense. Hopefully TM is enabled to stay true to their core and continues to grow and develop. Only time will tell if that's true. Apparel is really where the money is at in the golf business. It's why we wont see UA make equipment, it's why Nike dropped their equipment line and kept the apparel. It's why Adidas wanted to dump TM and is in the process of finalizing that deal. Callaway not having an apparel line had to hurt them. Grabbing one, which is already established and is continuing to grow should ultimately help their bottom line and diversify their company.

[Bubby6]

Callaway has the worst apparel in golf. They could have started up a company easier than running TM. Another huge loss move for another golf company.

 

I would say PING but every company should always work on improving rather than settling.

Lets be honest here. Callaway hasn't be relevant in clothing since they sold off Ashworth. Everything they did SUCKED. I told the reps so for the last 2 years at the PGA Show. We wouldn't stock it because it didn't sell. No one took it seriously. At least NOW, there is a relevant company that has operations in place, which won't probably change a thing because there is no reason to. They can now honestly get the 18-50 market now simply by letting them do what they're already doing. We looked at them strongly because they make stuff all the way to 3X. Their stuff is really good. Pricey, but good. No reasonable company will touch it inappropriately and mess it up.

 

TaylorMade you ask? They wanted Adams' technology. Nothing more. They offered them a lifeline and are in the process of killing it slowly. The Plano TX plant is shuttered. The Money Shot can attest to this on out TM trip years ago. I was the only one using Adams on the trip. They watched me hit hybrids out of the same divot for 5 minutes. A bunch of the fitters and none other then Brian Bozzell, their irons and woods guru. They said they had never seen anyone do that with a hybrid before. Their hybrids at the time couldn't dig the ball out like that. I said I assured them it was the hybrid, not me, because I sucked.

 

Callaway hasn't done soft goods well in forever. This is a great move for them.

 

For the love of Pete... Callaway never owned Ashworth. Can't sell off something you don't own.

[Matt J]

I probably own a half a dozen of their shirts and a few hats, so obviously I like their current offerings (last 3 years)...

 

anyone want to get into an over/under on how long it takes before their entire catalog is unattractive?

 

I say three seasons.... by Summer of 2018, I wouldn't wear a single shirt or hat.

[BlkNGld]

Lets be honest here. Callaway hasn't be relevant in clothing since they sold off Ashworth.

 

Just to be clear, Callaway never owned Ashworth. Ashworth was producing clothing for Callaway and they had co branded outlet stores up until TM bought Ashworth, but they were independent companies.

 

I agree that it was good... those days were probably the last time I purchased Callaway logo clothing. And Ashworth, too.

[Matt J]

Callaway has the worst apparel in golf. They could have started up a company easier than running TM. Another huge loss move for another golf company.

 

This may be the most ignorant statement in this thread yet. You literally just said it would be easier to start a company from scratch than buy a successful company with $65m in annual sales?

 

If you guys hate callaway, why not just say it?

 

I've liked Callaway, Eli Callaway, and Phil Mickelson since the first Big Bertha hit the shelves.

 

I still think they make great clubs.

 

I just don't understand chasing bad money with good money. I think you could have hired a couple of design interns, a guy who really knows Chinese cut and sew, and a small marketing team and knocked off TM-type success by just making a decent product with a snazzy logo. TM has been riding out Travis Johnson's vision since 2010. Sure, you turn on ESPN and see a guy in one of their hats every once in awhile, but I just don't see that being worth $125 million.

 

$125 million.

 

$125 million.

 

TaylorMade just sold for $425 million.

 

Nike, Under Armour, FootJoy/Titleist/Fila, Adidas, etc. - Super saturated market.

 

Can't wait to see Patrick Reed in their new husky line.

[xjohnx]

Callaway has the worst apparel in golf. They could have started up a company easier than running TM. Another huge loss move for another golf company.

 

This may be the most ignorant statement in this thread yet. You literally just said it would be easier to start a company from scratch than buy a successful company with $65m in annual sales?

 

If you guys hate callaway, why not just say it?

 

I've liked Callaway, Eli Callaway, and Phil Mickelson since the first Big Bertha hit the shelves.

 

I still think they make great clubs.

 

I just don't understand chasing bad money with good money. I think you could have hired a couple of design interns, a guy who really knows Chinese cut and sew, and a small marketing team and knocked off TM-type success by just making a decent product with a snazzy logo. TM has been riding out Travis Johnson's vision since 2010. Sure, you turn on ESPN and see a guy in one of their hats every once in awhile, but I just don't see that being worth $125 million.

 

$125 million.

 

$125 million.

 

TaylorMade just sold for $425 million.

 

Nike, Under Armour, FootJoy/Titleist/Fila, Adidas, etc. - Super saturated market.

 

Can't wait to see Patrick Reed in their new husky line.

 

There is much more margin and less overhead in Apparel vs. 2017 TaylorMade.

 

Also your exact point of it being an over saturated market, especially on tour where all your exposure comes from, would be my exact argument against your idea of starting from scratch.

 

Although it's a bit of a niche, Travis Mathew is also more of a lifestyle brand. That's very hard to do in golf and even harder to do with a new brand. It's been documented that callaway is trying to extend their reach outside of the course. Ogio is a lifestyle luggage brand as well. Expansion like this is gold to shareholders during rough times in the golf industry.

 

Matt, want to be clear in simply participating in discussion. I'm no business genius. I respect your opinion and I'm simply pointing out facts. Can you tell I'm sick of fighting with people around here? Respect.

[Llortamaisey]

I wonder if walmart tried to buy travis Mathew before they acquired bonobos.

[Matt J]

Callaway has the worst apparel in golf. They could have started up a company easier than running TM. Another huge loss move for another golf company.

 

This may be the most ignorant statement in this thread yet. You literally just said it would be easier to start a company from scratch than buy a successful company with $65m in annual sales?

 

If you guys hate callaway, why not just say it?

 

I've liked Callaway, Eli Callaway, and Phil Mickelson since the first Big Bertha hit the shelves.

 

I still think they make great clubs.

 

I just don't understand chasing bad money with good money. I think you could have hired a couple of design interns, a guy who really knows Chinese cut and sew, and a small marketing team and knocked off TM-type success by just making a decent product with a snazzy logo. TM has been riding out Travis Johnson's vision since 2010. Sure, you turn on ESPN and see a guy in one of their hats every once in awhile, but I just don't see that being worth $125 million.

 

$125 million.

 

$125 million.

 

TaylorMade just sold for $425 million.

 

Nike, Under Armour, FootJoy/Titleist/Fila, Adidas, etc. - Super saturated market.

 

Can't wait to see Patrick Reed in their new husky line.

 

There is much more margin and less overhead in Apparel vs. 2017 TaylorMade.

 

Also your exact point of it being an over saturated market, especially on tour where all your exposure comes from, would be my exact argument against your idea of starting from scratch.

 

Although it's a bit of a niche, Travis Mathew is also more of a lifestyle brand. That's very hard to do in golf and even harder to do with a new brand. It's been documented that callaway is trying to extend their reach outside of the course. Ogio is a lifestyle luggage brand as well. Expansion like this is gold to shareholders during rough times in the golf industry.

 

Matt, want to be clear in simply participating in discussion. I'm no business genius. I respect your opinion and I'm simply pointing out facts. Can you tell I'm sick of fighting with people around here? Respect.

 

Your tone is very respectful. More than I deserve from that post. I'm admittedly being belligerent.

 

My logic: So, you had a great fiscal year! Great. Celebrate. Pay dividends to your stockholders. Enjoy rising stock prices, great for employee morale, maybe encourage some to sell some of their employer matched shares and take a vacation. But use that high morale to buckle down and make it happen again. Nike leaving hard goods had to be great for Callaway. The Epic was an Epic success. I'm big on Callaway although I don't own anything they make... but don't spend $125 million on a clothing company that is at best a 10 year trend in making golf clothes look like surf clothes. Big department store brands are already ripping off the TM look. Don't buy high and sell low, Callaway. Pay some kids to surf some surf magazines, buy decent poly cotton blend material, engineer a decent shape for your target market, and pay an efficient cut and sew in China. Just my opinion, and I'm no business analyst admittedly. But, I did work in tourism and trendy retail like specialty snow sports a lot of my life. Smoke and mirrors. Callaway just bought an expensive smoke machine and some fancy mirrors.

[xjohnx]

Callaway has the worst apparel in golf. They could have started up a company easier than running TM. Another huge loss move for another golf company.

 

This may be the most ignorant statement in this thread yet. You literally just said it would be easier to start a company from scratch than buy a successful company with $65m in annual sales?

 

If you guys hate callaway, why not just say it?

 

I've liked Callaway, Eli Callaway, and Phil Mickelson since the first Big Bertha hit the shelves.

 

I still think they make great clubs.

 

I just don't understand chasing bad money with good money. I think you could have hired a couple of design interns, a guy who really knows Chinese cut and sew, and a small marketing team and knocked off TM-type success by just making a decent product with a snazzy logo. TM has been riding out Travis Johnson's vision since 2010. Sure, you turn on ESPN and see a guy in one of their hats every once in awhile, but I just don't see that being worth $125 million.

 

$125 million.

 

$125 million.

 

TaylorMade just sold for $425 million.

 

Nike, Under Armour, FootJoy/Titleist/Fila, Adidas, etc. - Super saturated market.

 

Can't wait to see Patrick Reed in their new husky line.

 

There is much more margin and less overhead in Apparel vs. 2017 TaylorMade.

 

Also your exact point of it being an over saturated market, especially on tour where all your exposure comes from, would be my exact argument against your idea of starting from scratch.

 

Although it's a bit of a niche, Travis Mathew is also more of a lifestyle brand. That's very hard to do in golf and even harder to do with a new brand. It's been documented that callaway is trying to extend their reach outside of the course. Ogio is a lifestyle luggage brand as well. Expansion like this is gold to shareholders during rough times in the golf industry.

 

Matt, want to be clear in simply participating in discussion. I'm no business genius. I respect your opinion and I'm simply pointing out facts. Can you tell I'm sick of fighting with people around here? Respect.

 

Your tone is very respectful. More than I deserve from that post. I'm admittedly being belligerent.

 

My logic: So, you had a great fiscal year! Great. Celebrate. Pay dividends to your stockholders. Enjoy rising stock prices, great for employee morale, maybe encourage some to sell some of their employer matched shares and take a vacation. But use that high morale to buckle down and make it happen again. Nike leaving hard goods had to be great for Callaway. The Epic was an Epic success. I'm big on Callaway although I don't own anything they make... but don't spend $125 million on a clothing company that is at best a 10 year trend in making golf clothes look like surf clothes. Big department store brands are already ripping off the TM look. Don't buy high and sell low, Callaway. Pay some kids to surf some surf magazines, buy decent poly cotton blend material, engineer a decent shape for your target market, and pay an efficient cut and sew in China. Just my opinion, and I'm no business analyst admittedly. But, I did work in tourism and trendy retail like specialty snow sports a lot of my life. Smoke and mirrors. Callaway just bought an expensive smoke machine and some fancy mirrors.

 

I hear you. At the end of the day I guess they have guys that get paid a lot more than you and me to provide insight into why it's a good idea. I guess we'll wait and see. I personally and not a big TM fan these days. Haven't owned their stuff in years. But I also live in New England where the culture couldn't be any different than Southern California.

[tbowles411]

Lets be honest here. Callaway hasn't be relevant in clothing since they sold off Ashworth.

 

Just to be clear, Callaway never owned Ashworth. Ashworth was producing clothing for Callaway and they had co branded outlet stores up until TM bought Ashworth, but they were independent companies.

 

I agree that it was good... those days were probably the last time I purchased Callaway logo clothing. And Ashworth, too.

I always associated one with the other. :)

[PaullyP]

Hmmm.......seems everything is getting reduced to the lowest common denominator.

[Scooter McGavine]

For those of you saying that TM is not worth $125M....You need to get a better understanding of business. TM is estimated to bring in $50-$60 million in revenue in 2017. Many estimates in business value roughly that a business' value is equal to three years of revenue. There is a bit more to it than that, but that rough estimate means $150-$180 if this year is consistent with 15/16. This is unlikely though as the business is CONTINUING to grow. With that in mind, if it's truly a plan to allow TM to develop their style and fabrics independently and Callaway is just planning on reaping the financial benefits, then the $125M purchase price can be argued as a VALUE, not an overvalued purchase.