the pgatour vs the lpga

[jmvargas]

this latest controversy about the Evian has got me thinking about the differences in both tours particularly in their objectives, philosophy, and even management principles...partly as an explanation as to vast difference in their tournament purses..

 

here are my observations:

 

1. the pga tour often emphasises power and distance while the lpga relies on finesse and glamour when applicable.

 

2. the pgatour and the men's tour in general have a strong sense of tradition and history....the lpga not so much mainly because theirs is a young organisation with not yet as much history or tradition.

 

3. in the pgatour the US players are the dominators...not so in the lpga.

 

4. there are more male golfers than women.

 

5. no matter what gender golf is still perceived as a game where power is king...

 

any others??

[mallrat]

I just get the perception that the LPGA can't get out of it's own way. There has been some great golf played this year but 2017 will be remembered as the year of the Lexi penalty, clothing memo (which I have no issue with) and no this Evian restart junk.

 

The PGA seems to put the golf played above everything else. Even the LPGA's marketing doesn't emphasize their play, "see why it's different out here". Until the main focus is the golf, seems like they will keep shooting themselves in the foot.

[Shilgy]

The PGA tour was founded in 1929, the ladies in 1950. Both tours were like gypsies the early years. Driving town to town in made up events.

The women's purses are much smaller due to less interest and TV ratings. Mostly because, sad to say, their game is not as good as the mens. Period. There I said it. And I follow the LPGA at least as strongly as I follow the men. But for the masses of viewers that is it. Same as NBA versus WNBA.

It's too bad imo. If you could market it as a different sport entirely they'd be better off.

[thug the bunny]

Its more entertaining watching men go for a 600 yd par 5 in two than watching ladies lay up on a 490 par 5. At my local LPGA tournament they don't even put the tees at the tips on a number of holes. The most notable being a long par 3, which is usually 225 for members from the whites, but they let the ladies play 180 from the forward tees. Cmon man.

[jmvargas]

thanks for the great answers so far..

 

the comment about marketing it as a different sport seems to make sense too as they're already putting it forth by the "see why it's different out here" slogan..

 

...and why tennis is so successful in the marketing of both genders in the same sport??

[big yellow]

...and why tennis is so successful in the marketing of both genders in the same sport??

What if they played on different dates and locations?

Will it be same?

[jmvargas]

...and why tennis is so successful in the marketing of both genders in the same sport??

What if they played on different dates and locations?

Will it be same?

 

am not that familiar but aren't the non-grand slam/major events played at different dates and venues?..

 

in any case perhaps the lpga can explore that option of holding their events at the same courses as the men's albeit different dates as the us open a few years back..

[Shilgy]

...and why tennis is so successful in the marketing of both genders in the same sport??

What if they played on different dates and locations?

Will it be same?

 

am not that familiar but aren't the non-grand slam/major events played at different dates and venues?..

 

in any case perhaps the lpga can explore that option of holding their events at the same courses as the men's albeit different dates as the us open a few years back..

yes, in many/most of the season events they are separate. Seems like most folks just watch the slam events.

[coops]

The 4 major tournaments should be the crown jewels - yet I certainly can't tell you what the 4 LPGA majors are... because they've been sold off to corporate sponsors - at one point wasn't one the 'Weetabix' Open or something?

 

At the very worst, you could have say the Women's "US Open" sponsored by whoever/whatever - but to sell the name of the major tournament indicates how desperate and poorly marketed the Women's tour is.

[jmvargas]

i really like watching the lpga nowadays as i got older since our games are now much more alike..

 

i enjoy knowing that many of their club set ups are similar to mine and so are their distances...

 

many of them are also easy on the eyes and their games are pretty good considering their limitations...

 

i really hope they succeed in making their tour much more successful than what they are now but they have to make some drastic changes to do so..

 

they have to attract a different market and not compete with the men cuz they can't..

 

it will take a lot of work and dedication plus the political will to succeed..

 

i wish them well and hope they will be able to do it...

 

..and the sooner the better..

[Shilgy]

i really like watching the lpga nowadays as i got older since our games are now much more alike..

 

i enjoy knowing that many of their club set ups are similar to mine and so are their distances...

 

many of them are also easy on the eyes and their games are pretty good considering their limitations...

 

i really hope they succeed in making their tour much more successful than what they are now but they have to make some drastic changes to do so..

 

they have to attract a different market and not compete with the men cuz they can't..

 

it will take a lot of work and dedication plus the political will to succeed..

 

i wish them well and hope they will be able to do it...

 

..and the sooner the better..

grr, had a nice response about finished and my tablet crapped out...

 

I agree with all of the above but how do you implement the changes in marketing you suggest? At the end of the day it is still golf so comparisons by many folks is inevitable.

You and I and most on this forum can enjoy women's golf, and probably women's tennis - softball - track or any other sport without constantly comparing and thinking the men are better so why watch? But others cannot. I have a buddy that declare no woman hits it longer than him, even when given proof some average 20 years or so past his best pokes.

So what is the lpga to do?

[jmvargas]

i really like watching the lpga nowadays as i got older since our games are now much more alike..

 

i enjoy knowing that many of their club set ups are similar to mine and so are their distances...

 

many of them are also easy on the eyes and their games are pretty good considering their limitations...

 

i really hope they succeed in making their tour much more successful than what they are now but they have to make some drastic changes to do so..

 

they have to attract a different market and not compete with the men cuz they can't..

 

it will take a lot of work and dedication plus the political will to succeed..

 

i wish them well and hope they will be able to do it...

 

..and the sooner the better..

grr, had a nice response about finished and my tablet crapped out...

 

I agree with all of the above but how do you implement the changes in marketing you suggest? At the end of the day it is still golf so comparisons by many folks is inevitable.

You and I and most on this forum can enjoy women's golf, and probably women's tennis - softball - track or any other sport without constantly comparing and thinking the men are better so why watch? But others cannot. I have a buddy that declare no woman hits it longer than him, even when given proof some average 20 years or so past his best pokes.

So what is the lpga to do?

 

very good question and i honestly don't have all the answers..

 

i believe however that there should be a serious examination among their golf leaders about where they are and where they want to be much like what corporations do in similar situations..

 

as a start they should consult with experts in marketing women's products and go from there..

 

in a sense they have nowhere to go but up..

[bandrz]

Are we sure they are doing that poorly? I'm guessing the Asian market is much larger than the US market. The LPGA is much more a global tour than the PGA. Also, I recall just a few years ago, they were worried about even having a full season. This year they are up to 35 events (4 added for 2017), added 4 MM in prize money (LPGA record set this year at 67MM). In 2011 there were 25 events and 42MM in total prize money. They also have recently implemented the Race for the CME Globe, their version of the FedEx Cup. It seems to be on the upswing with the new commissioner. I hate the 5 majors and the re-start at the Evian was entirely premature. But I've heard nothing but good things about Mike Whan.

 

I'm certainly not the barometer, but I watch and enjoy the LPGA all the time. If there was an event anywhere near Austin, I would eagerly attend with both my daughter and son.

[Argonne69]

 

I'm certainly not the barometer, but I watch and enjoy the LPGA all the time. If there was an event anywhere near Austin, I would eagerly attend with both my daughter and son.

 

The Texas Shootout is held in Irvine in late April. You consider a 3 hour drive too far?

[duffer987]

I'm certainly not the barometer, but I watch and enjoy the LPGA all the time. If there was an event anywhere near Austin, I would eagerly attend with both my daughter and son.

 

The Texas Shootout is held in Irvine in late April. You consider a 3 hour drive too far?

 

6hr+ round trip. With kids. Via a boring AF drive up and down i35. Think the answer is yes ;)

[Argonne69]

I'm certainly not the barometer, but I watch and enjoy the LPGA all the time. If there was an event anywhere near Austin, I would eagerly attend with both my daughter and son.

 

The Texas Shootout is held in Irvine in late April. You consider a 3 hour drive too far?

 

6hr+ round trip. With kids. Via a boring AF drive up and down i35. Think the answer is yes ;)

 

I understand. It's four hours each way on Amtrak. At least one could catch some zzzz's on the train.

[bandrz]

I'm certainly not the barometer, but I watch and enjoy the LPGA all the time. If there was an event anywhere near Austin, I would eagerly attend with both my daughter and son.

 

The Texas Shootout is held in Irvine in late April. You consider a 3 hour drive too far?

 

6hr+ round trip. With kids. Via a boring AF drive up and down i35. Think the answer is yes ;)

 

lol. that drive is pretty uneventful! Plus you can add at least one hour travelling with the boogers.

 

we're spoiled with the Dell match play right here in town.

[dlygrisse]

I think for the American audience it is difficult to relate to the players when most of the winners need an interpreter during the post round interview. As for the rest of the world, I'm not sure, someone else would need to chime in.

[Argonne69]

I think for the American audience it is difficult to relate to the players when most of the winners need an interpreter during the post round interview. As for the rest of the world, I'm not sure, someone else would need to chime in.

 

Huh? Have you watched an LPGA event recently? Can you please name one winner this season who needed an interpreter?

 

Oh, wait. You must be referring to Hideki on the PGA.

 

Puleez.

[dlygrisse]

I think for the American audience it is difficult to relate to the players when most of the winners need an interpreter during the post round interview. As for the rest of the world, I'm not sure, someone else would need to chime in.

 

Huh? Have you watched an LPGA event recently? Can you please name one winner this season who needed an interpreter?

 

Oh, wait. You must be referring to Hideki on the PGA.

 

Puleez.

It's the perception. The reality of a situation rarely has an impact.

[duffer987]

I think for the American audience it is difficult to relate to the players when most of the winners need an interpreter during the post round interview. As for the rest of the world, I'm not sure, someone else would need to chime in.

 

Huh? Have you watched an LPGA event recently? Can you please name one winner this season who needed an interpreter?

 

Oh, wait. You must be referring to Hideki on the PGA.

 

Puleez.

It's the perception. The reality of a situation rarely has an impact.

 

Since reality typically has no impact on your perception of things, not sure you're in a position to comment on the greater "American audience".

[Shilgy]

Funny how the perception according to some is that the Korean women can't speak English. But of course that is not an issue for Sergio, Rahm, Kim, Matsuyama and the like.

[jmvargas]

Are we sure they are doing that poorly? I'm guessing the Asian market is much larger than the US market. The LPGA is much more a global tour than the PGA. Also, I recall just a few years ago, they were worried about even having a full season. This year they are up to 35 events (4 added for 2017), added 4 MM in prize money (LPGA record set this year at 67MM). In 2011 there were 25 events and 42MM in total prize money. They also have recently implemented the Race for the CME Globe, their version of the FedEx Cup. It seems to be on the upswing with the new commissioner. I hate the 5 majors and the re-start at the Evian was entirely premature. But I've heard nothing but good things about Mike Whan.

 

I'm certainly not the barometer, but I watch and enjoy the LPGA all the time. If there was an event anywhere near Austin, I would eagerly attend with both my daughter and son.

 

 

a lot of good points here..

 

doing more events in the far east sounds good if the money is attractive and the scheduling is well planned..

 

the best golfing weather over here is normally from october to february which is kinda off season in the west anyway..

 

no doubt also that the LPGA has made good strides in increasing purses and prize money but there is still lots of room for improvement..

 

consider that they play for 67M a year and the prize money for the US Open tennis alone was 50M for one event!

[thug the bunny]

I think women's sports will always come in second because of the prodigious things that male pro athletes can do. In every sport. When McEnroe was called out by the View girls on stating that Serina was the greatest female player ever but why not the greatest period, he was unapologetic and stated because any male pro in the top 100 would bagel her 3 sets straight 9 times out of 10. I mean, cmon, Wozniacki can beat her. Let's face it the reason most sports fans watch sports is to watch unimaginable feats of physicality. I volunteer every year for our local LPGA tourney, and it is always great golf, but nothing compares to watching (and hearing) Stenson hit his infamous 3 wood in person.

[jmvargas]

I think women's sports will always come in second because of the prodigious things that male pro athletes can do. In every sport. When McEnroe was called out by the View girls on stating that Serina was the greatest female player ever but why not the greatest period, he was unapologetic and stated because any male pro in the top 100 would bagel her 3 sets straight 9 times out of 10. I mean, cmon, Wozniacki can beat her. Let's face it the reason most sports fans watch sports is to watch unimaginable feats of physicality. I volunteer every year for our local LPGA tourney, and it is always great golf, but nothing compares to watching (and hearing) Stenson hit his infamous 3 wood in person.

 

 

...and THIS guys is the main reason why the Lpga lags so much behind the Pgatour..

 

..i wish them good luck on how to overcome this..

[Raving Shanker]

Men's golf is demonstrably better in every way, yet I prefer to watch LPGA. Why is that? Some previous posters have put forward theories on this (relatable games, easier on the eye etc). I am not sure what it is. Certainly I love these women! I mean In Gee Chun? Come on! One poster's tag line is "In Gee is God". Who can mount a case against that?

 

In sport, I always seem to be the patron saint of lost causes. So my recent upsurge in interest in LPGA spells doom for it.

[dhc1]

The PGA tour was founded in 1929, the ladies in 1950. Both tours were like gypsies the early years. Driving town to town in made up events.

The women's purses are much smaller due to less interest and TV ratings. Mostly because, sad to say, their game is not as good as the mens. Period. There I said it. And I follow the LPGA at least as strongly as I follow the men. But for the masses of viewers that is it. Same as NBA versus WNBA.

It's too bad imo. If you could market it as a different sport entirely they'd be better off.

 

Do people here want the LPGA to be popular or admired for their golfing skills?

 

If it's the latter, it's a pipe dream as there's just not enough interest - the natural audience of American women have little interest in following the game. As for a male audience, the LPGA would be much more interesting if there were a lot of very attractive women playing in tight outfits (a la tennis). I know it upsets a lot of people here (and understandably when viewed from a golf skill level) but the LPGA would be much more popular if girls like Paige Spirinac were playing and highlighted all the time. It's not a coincidence that the most clicked pages on any major golf site are the WAGs of the PGA tour.

 

I personally enjoy watching the LPGA as the golf that they play is a much better version of the game I play. That being said I primarily watch when Michelle Wie is playing. I also find Shanshan Feng to be unwatchable.

[new2g0lf]

I think women's sports will always come in second because of the prodigious things that male pro athletes can do. In every sport. When McEnroe was called out by the View girls on stating that Serina was the greatest female player ever but why not the greatest period, he was unapologetic and stated because any male pro in the top 100 would bagel her 3 sets straight 9 times out of 10. I mean, cmon, Wozniacki can beat her. Let's face it the reason most sports fans watch sports is to watch unimaginable feats of physicality. I volunteer every year for our local LPGA tourney, and it is always great golf, but nothing compares to watching (and hearing) Stenson hit his infamous 3 wood in person.

 

 

...and THIS guys is the main reason why the Lpga lags so much behind the Pgatour..

 

..i wish them good luck on how to overcome this..

 

There are other reasons why the LPGA lags, women don't support ladies sports so the audience is a smaller segment of the population. Attend a PGA Tour event and you'll see mostly men but a fair number of women as well. Attend an LPGA Tour event and you'll still see mostly men. Most of the caddies on the LPGA tour are men, why? If Patrick Reeds pregnant wife can carry a golf bag, why aren't more LPGA golfers asking women to carry their bag?

[jmvargas]

I think women's sports will always come in second because of the prodigious things that male pro athletes can do. In every sport. When McEnroe was called out by the View girls on stating that Serina was the greatest female player ever but why not the greatest period, he was unapologetic and stated because any male pro in the top 100 would bagel her 3 sets straight 9 times out of 10. I mean, cmon, Wozniacki can beat her. Let's face it the reason most sports fans watch sports is to watch unimaginable feats of physicality. I volunteer every year for our local LPGA tourney, and it is always great golf, but nothing compares to watching (and hearing) Stenson hit his infamous 3 wood in person.

 

 

...and THIS guys is the main reason why the Lpga lags so much behind the Pgatour..

 

..i wish them good luck on how to overcome this..

 

There are other reasons why the LPGA lags, women don't support ladies sports so the audience is a smaller segment of the population. Attend a PGA Tour event and you'll see mostly men but a fair number of women as well. Attend an LPGA Tour event and you'll still see mostly men. Most of the caddies on the LPGA tour are men, why? If Patrick Reeds pregnant wife can carry a golf bag, why aren't more LPGA golfers asking women to carry their bag?

 

another good point..

 

i'm guessing it's the opposites attract thing..

[Sean2]

I wonder how the WNBA relates to this? It believe the NBA attracts a wider audience than the WNBA.