MD/DC/VA Golfers - This One Goes to Eleven

[dagoose383]

I always go to the one star reviews on Amazon and work my way backwards. If I can get to the 3 and 4 star reviews and still want to buy the product then it can't be too bad. Or if the stuff they complain about are things I can live with then that's okay too.

[dcmidnight]

How to get your shed rated as the #1 Restaurant in London.

 

https://www.vice.com...-on-tripadvisor

 

LOL, thats fantastic.

 

A few years back I had a wedding out in Gainesville and decided to stay at the Hampton Inn they recommended....which it turns out is no joke 10 feet from a CSX train track. Checking back through the reviews I noticed all the 5 star ones were written by reviewers with only 1 review - and it was the review for that Hampton Inn. Fake sounding names even. But I'm guessing most people dont care or dont even look that closely.

 

I always go to the one star reviews on Amazon and work my way backwards. If I can get to the 3 and 4 star reviews and still want to buy the product then it can't be too bad. Or if the stuff they complain about are things I can live with then that's okay too.

 

My brother and I always do this on Tripadvisor because at the very least, the 1 star reviews are hilarious.

[TheCityGame]

Golf Talk Friday : What are your thoughts on the long term viability of the current model for pricing and accessibility of golf in the US?

 

You know what's it's probably going to look like in 20 years? Look at what it looked like 20 years ago.

 

It's going to look like what it looks like now adjusted for inflation.

 

Some course will be shut down somewhere.

 

EPP will still be sorta crappy and $60.

 

Worthington will be nice and cost $115.

 

It will be $650 a month at Norbeck, and $500,000 to join Congressional.

 

Weekend rounds at Pine Ridge will be 5 hours.

 

Twilight rates will seem reasonable.

[dcmidnight]

You know what's it's probably going to look like in 20 years? Look at what it looked like 20 years ago.

 

Was going to say something similar. I moved to the DC area 22 years ago and for the most part golf looks exactly like it did back then.

 

I imagine in the next 20 years the same things will happen - a few courses will close, a few new ones will open and the other 98% will be pretty much the same.

[FAbb]

GTF :

 

At least in this area, I don't really expect much to change, besides a course being sold off for development here and there.

 

There are so many public golf courses at various price points to satisfy the occasional to avid golfer, and around here they seem to stay busy enough to at a bare minimum stay afloat.

 

The high end privates are going to keep on keeping on. Barring an apocalypse, there will continue to be people with the means to keep those places going, and keep them every bit as exclusive as they are now.

 

The mid-market private clubs seem like they just kind of bob up and down, and likely will continue to do so. They'll jack up the initiation and dues when the going is good, and be forced to scale those back and offer incentives then the going is bad.

 

The lower priced private options seem like they'd be at the highest risk of getting bulldozed in favor of development. They also generally seem to have no problem keeping a full membership slate, so it's hard to imagine them closing en masse.

 

I'd love to see some type of truly semi-private model take hold, but I think it would have by now if it made any financial sense for the facilities. The semi-private model as it exists is just to offer memberships at a fully public course that has no problem keeping a full tee sheet. It's a cost saving incentive for the most avid supporters of your facility, without sacrificing any ability to maximize your earnings on the vast majority of your customer base.

[dcmidnight]

I'd love to see some type of truly semi-private model take hold, but I think it would have by now if it made any financial sense for the facilities. The semi-private model as it exists is just to offer memberships at a fully public course that has no problem keeping a full tee sheet. It's a cost saving incentive for the most avid supporters of your facility, without sacrificing any ability to maximize your earnings on the vast majority of your customer base.

 

Like say Raspberry or Westfields do with this model - assuming its still like it was. Its around $5k a year for membership at essentially a public course - I guess thats worth it if you live pretty close by and are going to play X amount of rounds a year.

 

Westfields is a course I have always been dying to know the financials of. Course is always - at least when I play it - in dog-s condition but seemingly keeps a full tee sheet and does a ton of group/tourney/wedding business. I just dont get it.

[baddomes]

UMD could be considered a good semi-private. Membership allows you to book in advance of public, so that you have first shot at prime tee times. To me, that's what a semi-private should look like.

 

DC - Either completely disconnected ear buds or ones that connect to each other. Thanks for the recommendation.

[eagle1997]

I'd love to see some type of truly semi-private model take hold, but I think it would have by now if it made any financial sense for the facilities. The semi-private model as it exists is just to offer memberships at a fully public course that has no problem keeping a full tee sheet. It's a cost saving incentive for the most avid supporters of your facility, without sacrificing any ability to maximize your earnings on the vast majority of your customer base.

 

Like say Raspberry or Westfields do with this model - assuming its still like it was. Its around $5k a year for membership at essentially a public course - I guess thats worth it if you live pretty close by and are going to play X amount of rounds a year.

 

Westfields is a course I have always been dying to know the financials of. Course is always - at least when I play it - in dog-s condition but seemingly keeps a full tee sheet and does a ton of group/tourney/wedding business. I just dont get it.

 

i'd guess that the clubhouse makes more than the golf. a lot more. weddings are just stupid expensive, and they probably have their own exclusive caterers on site, so they get to triple dip: the venue, the food and the bar.

[FAbb]

UMD could be considered a good semi-private. Membership allows you to book in advance of public, so that you have first shot at prime tee times. To me, that's what a semi-private should look like.

 

I don't know what the cost is like, but it better be cheap AF. Advanced tee times is a junk perk. It's still basically a discount pass.

 

 

I'd be interested in the viability of a more restrictive semi-private model. Your primary source of revenue is membership, which runs at a lower cost point than a fully private. Then you allow very specific restricted access for outside play to get the rest of your revenue.

[baddomes]

UMD could be considered a good semi-private. Membership allows you to book in advance of public, so that you have first shot at prime tee times. To me, that's what a semi-private should look like.

 

I don't know what the cost is like, but it better be cheap AF. Advanced tee times is a junk perk. It's still basically a discount pass.

 

 

I'd be interested in the viability of a more restrictive semi-private model. Your primary source of revenue is membership, which runs at a lower cost point than a fully private. Then you allow very specific restricted access for outside play to get the rest of your revenue.

 

Please expand on your more restrictive semi-private golf course business model.

[FAbb]

I'll tell you what the worst model to partake in as a golfer is - it's called The Hobbits Glen Model. In said model, you pay a very fair price for unlimited golf. Unfortunately your low price is only possible because an entire city population subsidizes the operation of said facility, and for doing so they are given unlimited access to the facility on a pay as you go basis.

[thechief16]

I'd love to see some type of truly semi-private model take hold, but I think it would have by now if it made any financial sense for the facilities. The semi-private model as it exists is just to offer memberships at a fully public course that has no problem keeping a full tee sheet. It's a cost saving incentive for the most avid supporters of your facility, without sacrificing any ability to maximize your earnings on the vast majority of your customer base.

 

Like say Raspberry or Westfields do with this model - assuming its still like it was. Its around $5k a year for membership at essentially a public course - I guess thats worth it if you live pretty close by and are going to play X amount of rounds a year.

 

Westfields is a course I have always been dying to know the financials of. Course is always - at least when I play it - in dog-s condition but seemingly keeps a full tee sheet and does a ton of group/tourney/wedding business. I just dont get it.

 

Agree on Westfields.

 

Lot of talk on the other thread about the BI model, where privates open up the course during the week for public daily fee play to subsidize dues for membership. Model would never work here. They don't have the bro culture segment over there where guys are looking to get in a cart, play 6 hour round and drink a 12 pack. Only way that model works here is a walking-only course with no drink cart.

[dcmidnight]

Please expand on your more restrictive semi-private golf course business model.

 

Agreed. A "very restrictive semi-private model" comes pretty close to "fully private".

 

Domes I have a couple different Taotronics models, the bluetooth ones that are connected. Good stuff and I feel like if it breaks or I lose them I am not out too much money.

[FAbb]

I'd be interested in the viability of a more restrictive semi-private model. Your primary source of revenue is membership, which runs at a lower cost point than a fully private. Then you allow very specific restricted access for outside play to get the rest of your revenue.

 

Please expand on your more restrictive semi-private golf course business model.

 

It's a fantasy. Like I said in a previous post, the existing semi-private model is working for courses. They get to load up some guaranteed revenue from their most loyal customers, without really giving them anything more than a discount. The much larger percent of their customer base loses essentially nothing as far as access goes. The course is winning.

[baddomes]

I'd be interested in the viability of a more restrictive semi-private model. Your primary source of revenue is membership, which runs at a lower cost point than a fully private. Then you allow very specific restricted access for outside play to get the rest of your revenue.

 

Please expand on your more restrictive semi-private golf course business model.

 

It's a fantasy. Like I said in a previous post, the existing semi-private model is working for courses. They get to load up some guaranteed revenue from their most loyal customers, without really giving them anything more than a discount. The much larger percent of their customer base loses essentially nothing as far as access goes. The course is winning.

 

I don't understand why you think being able to access tee times early mornings on Saturday/Sunday is a junk perk. That's what the courses are giving them. When is the last time you teed off at 11:30am on a Saturday in May at a public course in the area?

 

Why do you think people sleep in their cars at Bethpage? And I'm not talking about us who treat it like a tailgate, I'm talking about the guys we see every year who take turns for their groups and literally are there by themselves to sleep in their cars. Access to early tee times is an enormous perk.

[TheCityGame]

Advance tee times is not a junk perk.

 

Restrictive semi-private. . .you could say that of my Dad's course in Maine. It's private. You're not playing there in the morning, especially on a weekend, if you don't belong, but if you call, you can get a tee time. They don't really advertise.

 

They probably get less outside play than Turf, which is not overloaded with outside play. That's really outings and hotel guests, though.

 

Hobbits is the worst way to pretend you're private.

 

Otherwise, just be public with "unlimited green fee" options and call those people members, like Waverly.

 

I have NO IDEA which one of these is the best model.

[TheCityGame]

If you get off at Pine Ridge at 6:45 in the morning during the summer, you can be done in 3:45.

 

If you tee off at 7:15, you're playing in 4:30.

 

60 minute difference in start time can make a 2 hour difference in end time.

[Gmen1204]

Winters Run is a private course 5 minutes from my house, never looks busy I have never played it I hear it's nice but nothing special(Kent might be able to comment)just a basic golf course no fancy clubhouse no pool and it's about $400 a month just seems a little steep to me.

[FAbb]

I don't understand why you think being able to access tee times early mornings on Saturday/Sunday is a junk perk. That's what the courses are giving them. When is the last time you teed off at 11:30am on a Saturday in May at a public course in the area?

 

Why do you think people sleep in their cars at Bethpage? And I'm not talking about us who treat it like a tailgate, I'm talking about the guys we see every year who take turns for their groups and literally are there by themselves to sleep in their cars. Access to early tee times is an enormous perk.

 

I'm talking about just around here. There are so many public courses around here, that nobody is going to sleep in their car for a tee time.

 

How many members do you think a course like say Waverly or Blue Mash has? How many of the "prime" tee times do you think they're really booking up during their exclusive access period? I don't know the answers to these questions, but I suspect the answer to both is "not a whole lot."

 

Around here, a membership at a "semi-private" strikes me as little more than a discount pass for a regular customer.

[baddomes]

If you get off at Pine Ridge at 6:45 in the morning during the summer, you can be done in 3:45.

 

If you tee off at 7:15, you're playing in 4:30.

 

60 minute difference in start time can make a 2 hour difference in end time.

 

Psh, ain't got nothing on EPP.

 

If you tee off before it's officially sunrise, you can play in 3:45.

 

If you wait until 15 minutes after sunrise, you'll play in no less than 6 hours 45 minutes.

[TheCityGame]

psssssh, bish.

[baddomes]

I don't understand why you think being able to access tee times early mornings on Saturday/Sunday is a junk perk. That's what the courses are giving them. When is the last time you teed off at 11:30am on a Saturday in May at a public course in the area?

 

Why do you think people sleep in their cars at Bethpage? And I'm not talking about us who treat it like a tailgate, I'm talking about the guys we see every year who take turns for their groups and literally are there by themselves to sleep in their cars. Access to early tee times is an enormous perk.

 

 

How many members do you think a course like say Waverly or Blue Mash has? How many of the "prime" tee times do you think they're really booking up during their exclusive access period? I don't know the answers to these questions, but I suspect the answer to both is "not a whole lot."

 

 

Waverly and Blue Mash don't offer memberships that even allow you to book prime weekend times. They're not semi-private. They're public courses.

 

At UMD? I bet the members are booking 80% of the times before 10am on weekends.

 

edit - and 100% of the first hour of tee times on weekend mornings.

[jhbangas]

Now look what you've done.

 

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/02/09/l-l-bean-scraps-lifetime-return-policy/

[FAbb]

Now look what you've done.

 

https://www.pressher...-return-policy/

 

Sorry, I'm busy arguing with Domes. I'll read this on the crapper later, after I flush down a few butt wipes.

 

[Gmen1204]

Now look what you've done.

 

https://www.pressher...-return-policy/

 

Sorry, I'm busy arguing with Domes. I'll read this on the crapper later, after I flush down a few butt wipes.

 

[jhbangas]

Now look what you've done.

 

https://www.pressher...-return-policy/

 

Sorry, I'm busy arguing with Domes. I'll read this on the crapper later, after I flush down a few butt wipes.

 

 

 

[TheCityGame]

Now look what you've done.

 

https://www.pressher...-return-policy/

 

Sorry, I'm busy arguing with Domes. I'll read this on the crapper later, after I flush down a few butt wipes.

 

These two things actually really go together. At least in my head.

[baddomes]

Now look what you've done.

 

https://www.pressher...-return-policy/

 

Sorry, I'm busy arguing with Domes. I'll read this on the crapper later, after I flush down a few butt wipes.

 

 

 

 

Good.

[FAbb]

I don't understand why you think being able to access tee times early mornings on Saturday/Sunday is a junk perk. That's what the courses are giving them. When is the last time you teed off at 11:30am on a Saturday in May at a public course in the area?

 

Why do you think people sleep in their cars at Bethpage? And I'm not talking about us who treat it like a tailgate, I'm talking about the guys we see every year who take turns for their groups and literally are there by themselves to sleep in their cars. Access to early tee times is an enormous perk.

 

 

How many members do you think a course like say Waverly or Blue Mash has? How many of the "prime" tee times do you think they're really booking up during their exclusive access period? I don't know the answers to these questions, but I suspect the answer to both is "not a whole lot."

 

 

Waverly and Blue Mash don't offer memberships that even allow you to book prime weekend times. They're not semi-private. They're public courses.

 

At UMD? I bet the members are booking 80% of the times before 10am on weekends.

 

edit - and 100% of the first hour of tee times on weekend mornings.

 

I believe that. Certainly more of the exception than the rule as far as public courses offering memberships around here goes.

 

Somebody like Terphack or T.i.T. might know this better - how does UMD course operate from a financial perspective? Is it operating 100% on the revenue it generates? Is there any subsidy from the university?

[top.h]

have to imagine that UMD is subsidized in large part by the university under title IX since there are mens and womens. My guess - and most universities follow this model - revenue generated from the golf course goes to towards scholarships and athletics funding.