MD/DC/VA Golfers - This One Goes to Eleven

[TerpInTime]

I don't understand why you think being able to access tee times early mornings on Saturday/Sunday is a junk perk. That's what the courses are giving them. When is the last time you teed off at 11:30am on a Saturday in May at a public course in the area?

 

Why do you think people sleep in their cars at Bethpage? And I'm not talking about us who treat it like a tailgate, I'm talking about the guys we see every year who take turns for their groups and literally are there by themselves to sleep in their cars. Access to early tee times is an enormous perk.

 

 

How many members do you think a course like say Waverly or Blue Mash has? How many of the "prime" tee times do you think they're really booking up during their exclusive access period? I don't know the answers to these questions, but I suspect the answer to both is "not a whole lot."

 

 

Waverly and Blue Mash don't offer memberships that even allow you to book prime weekend times. They're not semi-private. They're public courses.

 

At UMD? I bet the members are booking 80% of the times before 10am on weekends.

 

edit - and 100% of the first hour of tee times on weekend mornings.

 

I believe that. Certainly more of the exception than the rule as far as public courses offering memberships around here goes.

 

Somebody like Terphack or T.i.T. might know this better - how does UMD course operate from a financial perspective? Is it operating 100% on the revenue it generates? Is there any subsidy from the university?

 

Hack might know better, but I believe they operate on their own revenue or are otherwise largely separate from the university budget. I do know for general maintenance inside the clubhouse they use university staff, so there is at least some connection between the entities. But I don't think the university has much, if any, control in the operations per se.

 

EDIT: For instance, if a club or team wanted to have an event at the golf course, they have to pay the golf course as they would anywhere else. And students pay to play, so there isn't any subsidy in the general student fees.

[mtn1414]

UMD could be considered a good semi-private. Membership allows you to book in advance of public, so that you have first shot at prime tee times. To me, that's what a semi-private should look like.

 

I don't know what the cost is like, but it better be cheap AF. Advanced tee times is a junk perk. It's still basically a discount pass.

 

 

Funny you should ask... I might have just made a spreadsheet of UMD last week.

(Assumes paid in full by March 31, which gives you a 10% discount on all except twilight. And $15 cart fee is required before 11:30 Fridays, weekends, and holidays even if you walk.)

 

Cost

 

Full membership $2,250

 

4 day unlimited, twilight F, SA, SU $1,485

 

5 day unlimited, twilight SA, SU $1,710

 

7 day twilight $600

[thechief16]

We need to stop with the "emotional support x" BS. The United/peacock story not withstanding (A publicity stunt by a struggling social media artist), if you have emotional issues, take the bus with the other crazy people. Or stay at home.

[dcmidnight]

Really good Pinehurst Resort deal going on right now for anyone interested in March/April...

 

https://www.pinehurst.com/get-fit-this-spring-at-pinehurst/

 

Would match up well with a night/round at Tobacco Road

[Gmen1204]

https://www.golfadvisor.com/articles/best-of-2017-top-50-us-17605.htm

 

PaMatt and I played #2 in October nice place surprised to see it at #2 it's about 45 min. north of me.

[eagle1997]

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1593206-winners-cut-golf-ball-and-hat-giveaway-check-here/

 

oh baby.

have you played the CUT ball yet city? which model? i think you mentioned buying some last year.

[TheCityGame]

http://www.golfwrx.c...way-check-here/

 

oh baby.

have you played the CUT ball yet city? which model? i think you mentioned buying some last year.

No.

 

MTB and Snell.

 

I'm about to dump an essay on Waverly woods on you guys that I've been pecking at for a few days.

[dcmidnight]

I wish WW wasnt a 60+ mile drive. Aside from #8 I really like that track.

[eagle1997]

I'm about to dump an essay on Waverly woods on you guys that I've been pecking at for a few days.

 

i bought the valentine's gift card special from WW, so if the stars align we might actually get to tee it up there together a couple times this summer. :)

[baddomes]

I'm about to dump an essay on Waverly woods on you guys that I've been pecking at for a few days.

 

i bought the valentine's gift card special from WW, so if the stars align we might actually get to tee it up there together a couple times this summer. :)

 

ahem me too. Even received my email confirmation that was shipped yesterday.

 

I haven't received a shipping confirmation from Blue Mash though.

[Johnny T]

GTF - Being out in the sticks, the golf scene is different. There are two courses in the county - Country Club of Culpeper (private) and South Wales (public). While not in the county, you could throw Meadows Farm in the conversation since it is 25 min from town.

 

The CC has had trouble with membership for a while but they keep hanging on. For 2-3 years (2012-2014 maybe?), they ran membership promos where you could pay $99 to become a member March-May. You had to pay cart fee each time which was $18. Really good deal IMO and I took advantage of it. Facilities aren't that great....they're old. Restaurant is average at best. Range is really nice but range balls are extra, even for members (unless you get the range membership which is an extra $150-250/year). Golf course is meh. It was originally a 9-hole course and added the back 9 years later. Layout is strange in that the front 9 has two par 5's back to back IIRC. And conditions were slightly above average for most public courses that see a lot of play. The membership is largely older people. I think when I was doing the promo membership, I was the second youngest person I met out there. The youngest person was the son of a member that just graduated college and was moving to the DC area over the summer. Cost isn't too bad...maybe $350-400/month if you factor in food minimums. They have some sort of equity thing going on so you had to buy stock in the club when you joined (although no initiation fee) They do have a pool and tennis courts too. But I just couldn't get excited about playing there. I kind of got bored with the course during the three month membership. I would think they will have to turn semi-private or public over the next decade or so if they want to stick around.

 

South Wales...I'm surprised they are still open. They closed down for a couple of years when the owner was going to sell out to a developer. The development deal supposedly fell through so the son opened the course back up. He has put some money into it but conditions can still be really rough. I mean they managed to kill the bermuda fairways this past summer. Now to their defense, I don't think they have irrigation in the fairways. But you would think that would be an easy way, albeit expensive, to improve conditions. My guess is that they will close again in a few years when they can finally get a developer in there to build houses on it.

 

Meadows Farm probably has the best chance to do well. It was bought by a family a couple of years ago and they have really put some money into it. Conditions have improved in that time but the course sees a ton of action so it takes a beating. The place has 27 holes and is always packed on the weekends. They now offer memberships that are around $1800/year for all you can play with cart and range balls. I think they do well with that deal. If they continue to do what they are doing, it will still be around in 20 years.

 

Ultimately there is just a small golfing population in this area. Meadows Farm has the benefit of being close to Fredericksburg so they get a lot of traffic from there, plus a large portion of the Culpeper and Orange county golfers. Assuming I'm still here in 20 years, I think my golf course choices are only going to get smaller...and farther away.

[baddomes]

Where's the damn Waverly essay?

[pquarta1]

Where's the damn Waverly essay?

 

IDK, but it better be glowing. Best course in MD, all things considered.

[TheCityGame]

Where's the damn Waverly essay?

proof reading it.

 

Did you buy valentines from Waverly or Worthington? I thought it was worthington with the valentines.

[baddomes]

Where's the damn Waverly essay?

proof reading it.

 

Did you buy valentines from Waverly or Worthington? I thought it was worthington with the valentines.

 

Both.

 

And Blue Mash.

[TheCityGame]

(OK, I started this Wednesday, but I've just been pecking at during lunch, so it took some time, and I got carried away).

 

After listening to DMK and playing Waverly yesterday (meaning Tuesday) for like the 100th time in the last 5 years, I started trying to reckon with what makes the course so durned appealing to me. Like, why do I keep going back there and not going to Woodlands, or Diamond Ridge or Timbers which are all RIGHT THERE and a bit cheaper?

 

I'm going to start by saying somethign obvious : it's fun.

 

But, what's "fun" mean when you're talking about golf. I'm going to break it down.

 

For starters, you want to know something that (usually) ISN'T fun when you play golf. . .hitting a ball 5 yards off the fairway and it's unplayable/OB/cart path/lost/in a hazard, especially if it's frequent, or a defining feature of the course (PoSho, Northwest, Diamond Ridge, Timbers (sort of)).

 

Waverly Woods is WIDE. You can hit drives 80 yards left to right on a lot of holes and be in play, and in some cases have a shot at the green. On the holes you need to be a little tighter, those holes are generally shorter. This applies to Worthington, too, which is one reason we're always going back.

 

Of course, it would be missing the point of golf if anyone could step up and spray drives 80 yards and have a good second shot, so Waverly Woods rewards good drives all over the place. On hole 1, if you hit a good drive (not a GREAT drive, a good drive), you bounce down to the left, and have a flattish lie, with a wedge, at a good angle to the green. But, you don't need to pipe one 280 through a chute to get there. You just need to hit a good drive. If you miss right, you're coming into the green from a poor angle, from the rough, usually off a down hill lie. If you REALLY miss right, it's OB, but I'm not talking about drives that are F- bad. You can write a similar story for the drive on almost any hole out there (think 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, 18).

 

The other aspect of driving at Waverly that is fun is this : almost every hole gives you a little "surprise". I wouldn't call Waverly Woods a "blind driving" course (you might), but there are very few holes where you can see your ball come to rest. So, you stroll off the tee on 1, walk up over the bluff where the 150 is, and discover if your ball ran down to the flat spot, if it's in a divot, if it ran through into the rough, if it's 140 out, or 105 out. That's fun and it happens ALL THE TIME out there.

 

This happens on some approach shots, too. . .like a blind shot into 4 green (that's always one of those, "I THINK it was good" kind of shots), 12 green, or the second shot on 2, or the approach on 17 (sometimes), tee shot on 4, 6, 8, etc.

 

The approach angles relate to the drives I'm talking about, so you feel "rewarded" for a good drive. 1 opens up if you're down to the left. 16 opens up if you get out to the right, but it's TOTALLY playable if you miss left.

 

While the course lets you get a lot out of your good shots, it still has a lot of places where you really need "great" shots. One hole 2, anyone can hit two good shots and have a wedge in from over the hazard, but the green is reachable, and more accessible, if you play over or to the right of the hazard, but you need to hit 2 VERY good shots to do it. On hole 4, you need to hit a GREAT drive for the primo angle, and you need to elevate a ball into a blind green to get the second shot close, but there are bailouts and misses there to give you options to make a tough par.

 

The green complexes are very good. Nice surfaces, plenty of nice folds, humps, kicks. To get close to a front pin on 3, the play is to hit the shaved turf right and short and hope for a good kick. It's the only way to get close to a middle pin when the greens are very firm. This can be said about Worthington and PB Dye, too.

 

The last thing I'll mention that is related to all of this, especially the "fun" part. Bad shots (C-'s, not F's) at Waverly typically lead to BOGEYS, not DOUBLE BOGEYS. If an 18 handicapper hits a 175 yard slice off the tee, he can often pound that at the green. He's not punching out from the woods and still being left with 200 in. And, by the way. . .when you consider something like that, consider how much fans of links golf hate trees.

 

Holes 7 and 13 are two of the toughest, longest, tricky-green par 3's in the state. Anyone would take 3 on those holes and walk off happy. But, here's the thing. . .they're pretty easy bogeys. If you miss 17 at Worthington in any one of 4 places, you're easily looking at double. You never really know where to drop of if you have to play a provisional. That doesn't happen at Waverly. You can miss 7 & 13 pretty wide and still put one on and two putt. And, you can even get some pretty generous bounces on hole 13 off the right side.

 

17

 

Here's the thing about 17. I think it was designed so that a good drive would bounce over the hump and kick down to a flat spot around the 150. Here's the issue. . .from the appropriate tee box. . .that takes an A+++ drive to do and a little luck. I don't expect to be able to do it from the blacks, but it takes a 1 in a 100 drive from me to do it from the blues. And, there's no spot that is like a good, "OK, if I can't do that, I can go here." If you're short, you have a blind 215 in. Also, let's say you're PQ and you go, "ok, I'm going to pound one over that mound." He can do that, and hit an A+ drive, but very often that drive is going to kick run through the fairway into a crap lie in the rough. The only shot there to wind up in position A is a 270 yard drive that comes down with the trajectory and spin of a gap wedge.

 

But, I like the length.

 

Here's my solution. . .take that large mound on the left and just move it 20 yards closer to the tee. Now that "valley" becomes a hump and the hump area becomes a flat spot. Now, it's a 245 drive (from the blues) to get over the hump instead of 265. You still need to hit a good drive. You can't miss right, and a poor drive is going to kick off to the right, forcing a lay-up like always, or a 215 shot from the right side where you can sort of see the green, or bail out left.

 

Holes 8 & 12 are the other controversial holes there. Let me say this. . .people are mistaken about 12. That's a great hole. There are 3 distinct options off the tee all that all play to different strengths. My favorite option (going down below) forces a totally blind wedge shot into a very elevated green. This is a very classical challenge for a golfer. If you don't want that, then you can lay back to 150 in the fairway, or try to push your luck by playing a precise shot down the left side where it stays high. You need to have great distance control and accuracy into this green, but if you miss. . .guess what. . .bogey. Not double.

 

8 is weak, but I think people overrate its negatives. There's really only one good spot for a drive and you can drive into the water, but a perfect drive can also give you a great shot at the green. The second shot does offer options. Going for it is one. Playing the second to the fairway can bring water into play if you make a mistake. There's actually a spot in the right rough that is the best angle for the green, and has less tree trouble than most people think. The green is great there. Very tough to get one close to a front pin. Lot of slope in the back of the green. Tough green to read.

 

In short :

 

Very wide.

"Fun" bounces and surprises.

Not many "frustrating" double bogeys.

Good risk/reward on ballsy shots.

[pquarta1]

(OK, I started this Wednesday, but I've just been pecking at during lunch, so it took some time, and I got carried away).

 

After listening to DMK and playing Waverly yesterday (meaning Tuesday) for like the 100th time in the last 5 years, I started trying to reckon with what makes the course so durned appealing to me. Like, why do I keep going back there and not going to Woodlands, or Diamond Ridge or Timbers which are all RIGHT THERE and a bit cheaper?

 

I'm going to start by saying somethign obvious : it's fun.

 

But, what's "fun" mean when you're talking about golf. I'm going to break it down.

 

For starters, you want to know something that (usually) ISN'T fun when you play golf. . .hitting a ball 5 yards off the fairway and it's unplayable/OB/cart path/lost/in a hazard, especially if it's frequent, or a defining feature of the course (PoSho, Northwest, Diamond Ridge, Timbers (sort of)).

 

Waverly Woods is WIDE. You can hit drives 80 yards left to right on a lot of holes and be in play, and in some cases have a shot at the green. On the holes you need to be a little tighter, those holes are generally shorter. This applies to Worthington, too, which is one reason we're always going back.

 

Of course, it would be missing the point of golf if anyone could step up and spray drives 80 yards and have a good second shot, so Waverly Woods rewards good drives all over the place. On hole 1, if you hit a good drive (not a GREAT drive, a good drive), you bounce down to the left, and have a flattish lie, with a wedge, at a good angle to the green. But, you don't need to pipe one 280 through a chute to get there. You just need to hit a good drive. If you miss right, you're coming into the green from a poor angle, from the rough, usually off a down hill lie. If you REALLY miss right, it's OB, but I'm not talking about drives that are F- bad. You can write a similar story for the drive on almost any hole out there (think 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, 18).

 

The other aspect of driving at Waverly that is fun is this : almost every hole gives you a little "surprise". I wouldn't call Waverly Woods a "blind driving" course (you might), but there are very few holes where you can see your ball come to rest. So, you stroll off the tee on 1, walk up over the bluff where the 150 is, and discover if your ball ran down to the flat spot, if it's in a divot, if it ran through into the rough, if it's 140 out, or 105 out. That's fun and it happens ALL THE TIME out there.

 

This happens on some approach shots, too. . .like a blind shot into 4 green (that's always one of those, "I THINK it was good" kind of shots), 12 green, or the second shot on 2, or the approach on 17 (sometimes), tee shot on 4, 6, 8, etc.

 

The approach angles relate to the drives I'm talking about, so you feel "rewarded" for a good drive. 1 opens up if you're down to the left. 16 opens up if you get out to the right, but it's TOTALLY playable if you miss left.

 

While the course lets you get a lot out of your good shots, it still has a lot of places where you really need "great" shots. One hole 2, anyone can hit two good shots and have a wedge in from over the hazard, but the green is reachable, and more accessible, if you play over or to the right of the hazard, but you need to hit 2 VERY good shots to do it. On hole 4, you need to hit a GREAT drive for the primo angle, and you need to elevate a ball into a blind green to get the second shot close, but there are bailouts and misses there to give you options to make a tough par.

 

The green complexes are very good. Nice surfaces, plenty of nice folds, humps, kicks. To get close to a front pin on 3, the play is to hit the shaved turf right and short and hope for a good kick. It's the only way to get close to a middle pin when the greens are very firm. This can be said about Worthington and PB Dye, too.

 

The last thing I'll mention that is related to all of this, especially the "fun" part. Bad shots (C-'s, not F's) at Waverly typically lead to BOGEYS, not DOUBLE BOGEYS. If an 18 handicapper hits a 175 yard slice off the tee, he can often pound that at the green. He's not punching out from the woods and still being left with 200 in. And, by the way. . .when you consider something like that, consider how much fans of links golf hate trees.

 

Holes 7 and 13 are two of the toughest, longest, tricky-green par 3's in the state. Anyone would take 3 on those holes and walk off happy. But, here's the thing. . .they're pretty easy bogeys. If you miss 17 at Worthington in any one of 4 places, you're easily looking at double. You never really know where to drop of if you have to play a provisional. That doesn't happen at Waverly. You can miss 7 & 13 pretty wide and still put one on and two putt. And, you can even get some pretty generous bounces on hole 13 off the right side.

 

17

 

Here's the thing about 17. I think it was designed so that a good drive would bounce over the hump and kick down to a flat spot around the 150. Here's the issue. . .from the appropriate tee box. . .that takes an A+++ drive to do and a little luck. I don't expect to be able to do it from the blacks, but it takes a 1 in a 100 drive from me to do it from the blues. And, there's no spot that is like a good, "OK, if I can't do that, I can go here." If you're short, you have a blind 215 in. Also, let's say you're PQ and you go, "ok, I'm going to pound one over that mound." He can do that, and hit an A+ drive, but very often that drive is going to kick run through the fairway into a crap lie in the rough. The only shot there to wind up in position A is a 270 yard drive that comes down with the trajectory and spin of a gap wedge.

 

But, I like the length.

 

Here's my solution. . .take that large mound on the left and just move it 20 yards closer to the tee. Now that "valley" becomes a hump and the hump area becomes a flat spot. Now, it's a 245 drive (from the blues) to get over the hump instead of 265. You still need to hit a good drive. You can't miss right, and a poor drive is going to kick off to the right, forcing a lay-up like always, or a 215 shot from the right side where you can sort of see the green, or bail out left.

 

Holes 8 & 12 are the other controversial holes there. Let me say this. . .people are mistaken about 12. That's a great hole. There are 3 distinct options off the tee all that all play to different strengths. My favorite option (going down below) forces a totally blind wedge shot into a very elevated green. This is a very classical challenge for a golfer. If you don't want that, then you can lay back to 150 in the fairway, or try to push your luck by playing a precise shot down the left side where it stays high. You need to have great distance control and accuracy into this green, but if you miss. . .guess what. . .bogey. Not double.

 

8 is weak, but I think people overrate its negatives. There's really only one good spot for a drive and you can drive into the water, but a perfect drive can also give you a great shot at the green. The second shot does offer options. Going for it is one. Playing the second to the fairway can bring water into play if you make a mistake. There's actually a spot in the right rough that is the best angle for the green, and has less tree trouble than most people think. The green is great there. Very tough to get one close to a front pin. Lot of slope in the back of the green. Tough green to read.

 

In short :

 

Very wide.

"Fun" bounces and surprises.

Not many "frustrating" double bogeys.

Good risk/reward on ballsy shots.

 

Concur. It's a great course. Challenging. Variety. Good length. Even from the blues. Great conditions. Fairly priced in the afternoon. Staff is usually good. Bartenders wear tight spandex. What's not to like?

[TheCityGame]

Always good conditions. Drains well. Very good staff. Great driving range, Putting green and Chipping green. Always open.

 

Crap bar.

[bayrat88]

DC - on my phone so not going back to quote but regarding knock off go pros I have a lightdow 6000 which is Amazon’s model. So far it has worked great we even did side by side comparisons to my brother in laws go pro. You couldn’t tell a difference in video or sound. Granted I have only used it to take videos of my daughter nothing extreme but zero complaints. We bought it bc I wanted to see how much we would actually use a camera before shelling out 300+ for a go pro. Figured I would hang it off the side of my boat or throw it around if it didn’t work out, but it has. The only downside is it doesn’t come or have an English instruction manual but it is self intuitive you don’t really need instructions to figure out 4 buttons. You can’t really go wrong for the price.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00XC46RWG/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1518206864&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=lightdow+ld6000+wifi+1080p+hd+sports+action+camera+bundle&dpPl=1&dpID=41x9RMXXdVL&ref=plSrch

[FAbb]

I'd agree with the vast majority of what City said. It's wide, but smartly so. You're rewarded for hitting a great shot, without being unduly punished for something less than stellar. That, and it's conditioning are it's best attributes.

 

Just because I feel the need to be contrary, we can't be all rainbows and unicorns.

 

It's got its downfalls, which primarily stem from it being built as part of a residential development project.

 

It's hot garbage to walk. Make all the excuses about the holes and transfers that aren't bad walks that you like. They won't help. It's a crappy walk. There are many transfers that are awful, and lots of hilly walks in general. It's not un-walkable, obviously, and the walkability doesn't keep me from playing it. It still doesn't mean I like it. It's a bad walk, and I think that takes something away from it.

 

As I imagine is the case with most residential projects, the houses tend to get the more desirable land, while the golf course is fighting for anything it can get. Places like from 250 out on #8 to #9 tee - that's just a crappy piece of property. It's where all the water drains off from the residential property to the right. They had to cram the approach to and 8th green in between a couple runoff ponds and some condos. The 12th hole is pretty well executed to bake as much strategy as there is into a very difficult piece of land.

 

They're not really in play, but as is basically always the case, houses just kind of disturb the golf experience. It's why places like 16-17 at Waverly, or that blob of undisturbed holes on the back at Hobbits are some of the most enjoyable places on the property to be.

 

The greens are generally good, but I'd actually like to see them take better advantage of what they've created and have more holes with collection areas around the green. The vast majority are tightly mown at the entrance, and completely surrounded by rough everywhere else. Maybe it's too steep to mow, but imagine the left of the 9th green being tightly mown from the green down to that collection area on the left. You could try to putt a ball, or bump it into the hill. As it is, your only option is to execute a perfect high pitch from a tight lie. There are tons of green complexes out there where I think some tightly mown areas would add an interesting element. As it stands, #3 and #17 are really the only holes that have anything beyond the entrance to the green mowed tight.

[SullGolf]

The quality of the walk is the one thing that keeps Blue Mash and Waverly Woods pretty much at parity for me. The course at WW is superior, but the walk at BM is just leaps and bounds better. I'm actually a little surprised City didn't bring this up with his focus on naturalness. BM is a weirdly good walk considering they have big transmission lines running right down the property. That's certainly not natural.

[XHoop24]

City - nice writeup. I've only played WW twice and enjoyed it both times. I love hole three, but have hit two terrible drives. Wish I had a chance to play it with a good drive, would be a very fun hole.

 

Also, the talk of re-gripping earlier in the week has the clubs going in for the yearly oil change on Monday.

[FAbb]

City - nice writeup. I've only played WW twice and enjoyed it both times. I love hole three, but have hit two terrible drives. Wish I had a chance to play it with a good drive, would be a very fun hole.

 

Also, the talk of re-gripping earlier in the week has the clubs going in for the yearly oil change on Monday.

 

Sully calls that taking his clubs in for servicing, in his dreams at least.

[2moreTerps]

Waverly Woods is literally my favorite course in the entire state including all the privates that I’ve played. And that is primarily due to, to summarize city’s whole post into one word, it’s playability. MKLs point about “really hard courses aren’t normally as fun” was super interesting. Like compare Waverly, UMD and Avenel. Avenel just isn’t a “fun” course. There are doubles EVERYWHERE. Hole 11 was the hardest hole on tour last year. It’s just not a good hole. From the tees I played you basically have to hit a small green with a 230 shot and a 170;shot. And if you miss either ... double. No strategy. Just a binary pass fail test. I can’t recall a single customer who is a 100 player making anything better than double on that hole. Wavery and UMD from the appropriate tees are challenging without just being brutal. That said Hialeah can be pretty doublish and I’ve come to relish the challenge.

 

You know the worst course in the area ? Northwest. Man I hate that place.

 

 

[TheCityGame]

The thing about walking Waverly... I've just gotten used to it.

 

I never go "oh, here's this crappy walk again". I just walk it. And, also, the back is a nice walk.

 

If you're gonna knock bad transfers, you gotta praise nice ones. Some of the transfers are very cool. Like going from 3 to 4, and 11 to 12 and 16 to 17.

 

Its a housing course, but much more tolerable than, say, Cross Creek. I know that's a low bar.

 

[pquarta1]

Fabb, if Waverly had tightly mown areas around most greens, like 1, 2, 6, 8. 9, 11, and 16, you'd be losing balls left and right because there's nothing to stop them. It's too steep. And let's say some of the fall offs were shaved, the ball would end up in the rough anyhow, because it's too steep.

 

Yes. The bar is crap. But the service is good and they have nice specials on tap beers during the week --- just have to hope they have a decent one on tap, like Miller Rite, amirite?

 

I actually think Waverly does a nice job of not having the houses distract from the playability of the course, but yes it would be amazing to have it in it's original state with no or very few houses.

 

I love 6. It gives tons of options off of the tee, which determine the angle and difficulty of the approach, to a tough and slopey green. Pin position will often dictate the tee shot there. Get close as possible with a middle or back pin. Back left, better to go right, and maybe even lay back a bit to have a full shot if you go down the left side. Front pin is very tough to get close to, so I like to have a full shot --- 100 yards or so. Middle pins are go time, but if you're left and the pin is middle right, you a go a little long and say goodbye to your little ball (automatic if the sides were shaved).

 

What's wrong with Hole 8 from 250 out? I do think that hole is the only one where I feel like the houses sort of impinge on the hole. I don't think that's true anywhere else.

 

The worst hole on that course, IMO, is 18. But it's usually a nice opportunity for birdie, so that's good.

 

5 would be better if the green weren't so massive. If the pin is just on the front it can be dicey, but anything else and it's a little flip wedge in there. However, as City said, 7 and 13 more than make up for it. 7 is ridiculous with any wind, which prevails into the face on that tee. It's a hole that I am not miserable taking a 4 on, and feel like I came out ahead with a 3.

 

I don't mind the walk. To me, it's no worse than Hobbit's. Hobbit's I think is even hillier. If the front and back 9s at WW were the same, the walk would suck. As it is, it's not too bad. It's not as easy as BM, for sure. I just don't care for that golf course. Good Par 3s. A few nice 4s, but it's not my favorite. Again, usually nicely conditioned (greens usually pretty quick).

 

Hialeah I don't find too crazy, except for the 1st hole. The rest of the course gives you options where you should avoid doubles. It has some of the best holes on the property, IMO. Holes, 3, 4, 7, 8, 11, and 12 I really like. The thing I like least about TV is the Par 3s. There's only 2 on the lot that I think are nice holes. The 3rd and 13th on OG. The rest I find boring and not particularly attractive. (I might have some hole numbers wrong, so maybe City or 2MT can correct me, but they'll know what I'm talking about).

[FAbb]

Waverly is a very enjoyable course. It's my go-to within 20-25 minutes of home by far. I like it for all the things City talked about.

 

 

That doesn't mean I find it without weakness/things I wish were different. People criticize/nit pick at great golf courses, so Waverly isn't immune. Doesn't mean I don't thoroughly enjoy it, either. Just human nature to look back at things when they're done and think, "what if?"

 

The walk sucks. It's indefensible. There are some fine transfers, and a lot of awful ones. There's also a substantial amount of hill climbing. None of that keeps me from playing it, and walking. It just keeps me from ever walking off thinking about how much I enjoyed the walk.

 

There are certainly other holes you could add more tightly mown areas. I mentioned mowing the rough to the left of the 9th green. You could potentially bring the tightly mown grass up part way on the mound left of the 4th green, to allow more opportunity to use that slope to bring a ball on the green. There are low areas left of the 6th green, and long of the 7th green. I could list more, but that's enough to make a point that there aren't zero areas where that's a possibility.

 

You want to know another course I really like that is a crappy walk? Worthington Manor. Tons of hill climbing, especially if you play the tips. Near every GD hole it feels like you've got to climb a hill to get to the back tee box. Some annoying walk arounds you have to make out there, too.

 

I finished the DMK pod. I really liked it. It just seemed less dry, and like less of a history lesson than some other architecture pods I've listened to. He's not lecturing about the great holes at such and such course, and templates, and whatever. Some stuff I've listened to seems to just drone on. Instead DMK is talking about his vision for what he thinks golf is, where maybe he took some missteps, and how he's since refined his approach. I LOVED his bit about how the Scots, and Euros in general tend to think longer term. He wants to build a golf course that will endure, and be praised 100 years from now. He doesn't want to build a golf course as part of a F'ing residential development because it's going to line a bunch of pockets right now. Amen. Just listening to it not only got me rock hard for Bandon, but makes me think twice about whether to do stick with Pac Dunes for our replay, or do Bandon Dunes instead. He seems like a guy that's kind of hard on himself, and maybe took a little detour to find himself, but who here hasn't?

 

TL;DR - PQ should just marry Waverly since he loves it so blindly, and I should spare you guys any more gushing and get a room with DMK

[pquarta1]

 

TL;DR - PQ should just marry Waverly since he loves it so blindly, and I should spare you guys any more gushing and get a room with DMK

 

That's cute.

 

Generally speaking, my golf goal for 2018 is to quit whining about this and that. I do too much complaining/focusing on the negative. I'm trying to lose time with that. Sometimes we learn the hard way. In fact, I learn EVERYTHING the hard way.

 

Funny, I don't mind the walk at Worthington. But 1 and 2 force you to go around big valleys off of the tee. And 12. Most courses require extra walking for back tees, which is a bummer. Generally, the transfers at WM are short though.

 

None of these are worse walks than Dormie. Seemed like every hole had a big forced carry area to walk around, and transfers weren't great either.

[FAbb]

Dormie was also an awful walk. Lots of walk arounds, and crappy transfers. I guess the later is inevitable when you build 18 holes on like 700 acres.

[dagoose383]

Speaking of regripping, got a package today and it had a nice note, gripe sample and poker chip.

 

 

 

 

Cord for all the clubs...