MD/DC/VA Golfers - Twelve Monkeys Mental Divergence

[eagle1997]

I need someone who wants to play in a team competition at Beaver Creek today at 12:30.

 

Nevermind. Just got a guy.

[Mizzy45]

Thinking Rattlewood at about 2pm. Anyone want to join me? Text me at+12407933400

[FAbb]

After years of threatening, I'm finally taking the plunge to learn AimPoint.

 

I streamed the AimPoint Express DVD, which honestly wasn't worth it. You can essentially find all the information in the DVD online. It was overly brief, and I think passed over things. For example, they prescribe where to stand when doing the read with your fingers on short putts, but not for longer putts. But if you watch the video, the people are standing in different places for the different length putts. It's like they're leaving a couple ingredients out of the sauce on purpose. I think this is probably a way to help funnel people into seeing certified instructors, and/or attending clinics.

 

The main skill you have to develop in order to make the system work is to be able to accurately determine the slope (measured in percent) at any point on the green. I brought my digital level out, and found spots with slope 1-5 percent, and cycled through getting a feel for those in both directions. After cycling through the known slopes a bit, I went around the green making slope estimates, and checking myself. One thing that really stood out to me was that the difficulty perceiving the slope was much greater than I expected. It's pretty damn subtle, especially at the low end (0-3%) slopes. I'm really going to need some practice in this area, to develop reasonable accuracy.

 

The express reads, given an accurate slope assessment, were just spot on. It was wild to compare them with what my normal read on the putt would be. When I normally read a putt, I tend to see a curved path, and an entry point on the hole. Watching putts I hit with the express reads - those mental pictures actually matched pretty well to the roll of the ball. There was a massive difference in where I perceived the start direction to be, though. The express reads gave me start directions much higher than I would've found with my normal reads - easily 2x higher or more in most cases. So I guess I'm decent at seeing a curve, but AWFUL at determining the actual start direction based off that.

 

It took a little tinkering to find a way to mesh the express read with the way I visualize. I tried visually targeting the spot the express read gave, but that worked out the same way that targeting strategy always works our for me - my putts finish at that point, instead of starting at it. Ultimately, I settled on using a line on the ball to set my aim at the point the express read gave, but visually targeting an entry point on the hole like I have been.

 

The speed of the reading routine is quite good. The longest part, for me at least, is aiming the line on the ball. I was doing that anyway last year, so I think it's either a net wash, or actually faster.

 

I'm definitely liking what I've seen so far, overall. There were certainly eye opening moments out there yesterday. I'd have a subtle (1-1.5% slope) breaker from maybe 20ft, and the true start point would turn out to be just wayyy further outside the hole than I'd ever have imagined - and I'd pour the putt right in the center. My biggest concern is going to be whether I can get really good at feeling the slope or not. I'm hoping it's something I'll just become more and more sensitive to with practice.

[dcmidnight]

2.5 weeks of unread posts...nah

 

Most likely TDLR version

 

City was right about something

Fabb was wrong about something

The forum software is still hot garbage

The DCGolfTour schedule is still not out

 

[TheCityGame]

> @FAbb said:

>

> The express reads, given an accurate slope assessment, were just spot on. It was wild to compare them with what my normal read on the putt would be. When I normally read a putt, I tend to see a curved path, and an entry point on the hole. Watching putts I hit with the express reads - those mental pictures actually matched pretty well to the roll of the ball. There was a massive difference in where I perceived the start direction to be, though. The express reads gave me start directions much higher than I would've found with my normal reads - easily 2x higher or more in most cases. So I guess I'm decent at seeing a curve, but AWFUL at determining the actual start direction based off that.

>

Like 95% of people have no idea how to "name" break, and yet they all do it the same way. Pelz talks about this.

 

Like this is the type of putt that people will say "a foot" because that's the highest it gets above the hole, when in fact this putt looks like it's about 6 feet outside.

 


 

 

 

 

[GooseHook]

Tale of the tape from my round yesterday:

* 85

* 4 doubles

* 7 chunks

The sheer horror that was my short game cost me even more shots than the chunks did. Kind of a miracle I broke 90. My long game felt great at least for most of the round.

[gsrjc]

> @FAbb said:

> After years of threatening, I'm finally taking the plunge to learn AimPoint.

>

> I streamed the AimPoint Express DVD, which honestly wasn't worth it. You can essentially find all the information in the DVD online. It was overly brief, and I think passed over things. For example, they prescribe where to stand when doing the read with your fingers on short putts, but not for longer putts. But if you watch the video, the people are standing in different places for the different length putts. It's like they're leaving a couple ingredients out of the sauce on purpose. I think this is probably a way to help funnel people into seeing certified instructors, and/or attending clinics.

>

> The main skill you have to develop in order to make the system work is to be able to accurately determine the slope (measured in percent) at any point on the green. I brought my digital level out, and found spots with slope 1-5 percent, and cycled through getting a feel for those in both directions. After cycling through the known slopes a bit, I went around the green making slope estimates, and checking myself. One thing that really stood out to me was that the difficulty perceiving the slope was much greater than I expected. It's pretty **** subtle, especially at the low end (0-3%) slopes. I'm really going to need some practice in this area, to develop reasonable accuracy.

>

> The express reads, given an accurate slope assessment, were just spot on. It was wild to compare them with what my normal read on the putt would be. When I normally read a putt, I tend to see a curved path, and an entry point on the hole. Watching putts I hit with the express reads - those mental pictures actually matched pretty well to the roll of the ball. There was a massive difference in where I perceived the start direction to be, though. The express reads gave me start directions much higher than I would've found with my normal reads - easily 2x higher or more in most cases. So I guess I'm decent at seeing a curve, but AWFUL at determining the actual start direction based off that.

>

> It took a little tinkering to find a way to mesh the express read with the way I visualize. I tried visually targeting the spot the express read gave, but that worked out the same way that targeting strategy always works our for me - my putts finish at that point, instead of starting at it. Ultimately, I settled on using a line on the ball to set my aim at the point the express read gave, but visually targeting an entry point on the hole like I have been.

>

> The speed of the reading routine is quite good. The longest part, for me at least, is aiming the line on the ball. I was doing that anyway last year, so I think it's either a net wash, or actually faster.

>

> I'm definitely liking what I've seen so far, overall. There were certainly eye opening moments out there yesterday. I'd have a subtle (1-1.5% slope) breaker from maybe 20ft, and the true start point would turn out to be just wayyy further outside the hole than I'd ever have imagined - and I'd pour the putt right in the center. My biggest concern is going to be whether I can get really good at feeling the slope or not. I'm hoping it's something I'll just become more and more sensitive to with practice.

I started doing this myself this season and I agree I searched online for aimpoint express and how enough information that helped me instead of purchasing. I will agree with you the very small tilts are difficult to figure out and I need more practice. It helped yesterday when I was playing Bluemash and realizing that I didn’t take enough break on putts when I did my usual green readings. I’ll do that first and then do aimpoint. Big difference. We’ll see how it goes but I’m excited for the season. Trying out aimpoint and got a new Callaway epic flash SZ head.

 

[SullGolf]

It's Monday morning of Masters week, and the PGA website still thinks I care to read about the Valero Texas Open. Come on.

[Ocgolfrick]

 

Rules Question:

Hole #14 Newport Bay OCGC. I pull my approach shot to the left and the ball barely clears the pond and embedds itself approx 8 inches above the pond. The ball flight was over the pond early in the flight of the ball. The ball is in line with the red stake above the pond. However, there is no red paint to indicate where the hazard begins and ends. I call one of the other players over for a ruling, and he goes by where the mower grass line ends, which I am inside of. I agree with him that I would be inside where the red paint line "should" be and say I'm going to take a penalty drop. He then says to just drop it outside the red stake. I ask if I need to go back and play the shot from before the pond, but he states no, I cleared the pond. In the end, it didn't matter as I took a max triple bogey, but what would have been the correct ruling? I feel I should have gone back and played a shot from before the pond, not treating it as if I had cleared the hazard.

 

 

[dcmidnight]

> @SullGolf said:

> It's Monday morning of Masters week, and the PGA website still thinks I care to read about the Valero Texas Open. Come on.

 

I appreciate that every year they seem to try harder and harder to sell you on going to the Mariott there. Hey it has a lazy river AND good food. I know nothing else about San Antonio other than the Riverwalk/downtown area is supposed to be pretty cool. And this hotel seems to be at least a half hour outside of town.

[TheCityGame]

So, anyway. . .congrats to Woodmore on putting a beat down on Bowie in the A-Team matches this weekend. I know you got spanked yesterday but Beaver Creek is really good in this thing. I think they're regularly near/in the finals. I think we have a pretty good stable of golfers and we hardly ever get out of the first round.

 

But, we won both this weekend. 15.5 - 2.5 on Saturday vs Cattail. My match we got 1.5 out of 3, so we were responsible for most of that damage.

 

Yesterday we played MD National. They killed Musket Ridge on Saturday and Musket Ridge beat us last year, so we knew it would be tough, but we got them 12-6. We got 8.5 points (out of 9 available) at home and I found a measure of redemption by getting all 3. Next week we have Columbia. Apparently people want to play there. One of our guys had an ace during the match on Sunday at MD Nat.

 

We have a Masters Par 3 contest on Wednesday at the club.

[Ocgolfrick]

> @TheCityGame said:

> Next week we have Columbia. Apparently people want to play there.

>

>

Say Hi to actual Real BethesdaRick for me.

 

[FAbb]

I did a little bit of skill work when I was at the green yesterday, too. I found a relatively straight uphill/downhill 30ft stretch, and stuck a tee at each end. Then I went back and forth putting between them, with 3 balls. Jesus, my distance dispersion was awful, especially at first. I'm trying to get the ball to the tee, but stop within 2ft past. I'd have one ball 2ft short, one 3+ feet long, and one close. Easily 5+ feet of distance dispersion. From 30ft, that's straight up garbage. Got better with some work, but definitely lots of early season rust on the putting touch.

[SullGolf]

City, I'll wave at you when I drive by on my way to Rock Creek to hit off bare dirt.

[TheCityGame]

> @Ocgolfrick said:

>

> Rules Question:

> Hole #14 Newport Bay OCGC. I pull my approach shot to the left and the ball barely clears the pond and embedds itself approx 8 inches above the pond. The ball flight was over the pond early in the flight of the ball. The ball is in line with the red stake above the pond. However, there is no red paint to indicate where the hazard begins and ends. I call one of the other players over for a ruling, and he goes by where the mower grass line ends, which I am inside of. I agree with him that I would be inside where the red paint line "should" be and say I'm going to take a penalty drop. He then says to just drop it outside the red stake. I ask if I need to go back and play the shot from before the pond, but he states no, I cleared the pond. In the end, it didn't matter as I took a max triple bogey, but what would have been the correct ruling? I feel I should have gone back and played a shot from before the pond, not treating it as if I had cleared the hazard.

>

>

If it's totally unmarked, I don't see any reason why you couldn't just treat it like a regular embedded ball. One club length, no nearer the hole. We can't just go around making up where hazards end.

 

It looks like there's two stakes near that pond. If they define a specifc "radius", like they're both 2 feet out from the edge of the water, I might assume that the hazard extends 2 feet out all around it. But this is why courses should be better marked.

[SullGolf]

If it's not marked well with stakes or a line, I believe the boundary is considered the edge of the water. So Rick would have been embedded outside the hazard.

[Ocgolfrick]

> @SullGolf said:

> If it's not marked well with stakes or a line, I believe the boundary is considered the edge of the water. So Rick would have been embedded outside the hazard.

 

Yeah, there was a lot to unpack there and we had a group waiting on us for the green to clear. I knew ordinarily were the paint would be, and if the ball hadn't embedded, I had a stance and a shot, but that's "rub of the green" for you.

[davechen]

It is ON LIKE DONKEY KONG! My son and I will be playing our Colony Collapse Disorder matches on the 20th at Blue Mash.

 

BTW, my son shot a 85 on Saturday and has another tournament next Saturday, so his handicap will be coming down. He's not that happy about that.

[TheCityGame]

> @davechen said:

> It is ON LIKE DONKEY KONG! My son and I will be playing our Colony Collapse Disorder matches on the 20th at Blue Mash.

>

> BTW, my son shot a 85 on Saturday and has another tournament next Saturday, so his handicap will be coming down. He's not that happy about that.

 

How did the 85 hold up?

[davechen]

> @TheCityGame said:

> > @davechen said:

> > It is ON LIKE DONKEY KONG! My son and I will be playing our Colony Collapse Disorder matches on the 20th at Blue Mash.

> >

> > BTW, my son shot a 85 on Saturday and has another tournament next Saturday, so his handicap will be coming down. He's not that happy about that.

>

> How did the 85 hold up?

 

It didn't. The winning score was a 75, IIRC and there was a 76 and some 80's.

[XHoop24]

> @davechen said:

> It is ON LIKE DONKEY KONG! My son and I will be playing our Colony Collapse Disorder matches on the 20th at Blue Mash.

>

> BTW, my son shot a 85 on Saturday and has another tournament next Saturday, so his handicap will be coming down. He's not that happy about that.

 

I have no doubt that if your son keeps working on his game he’ll be contending for Hive championships before he exits high school. Swing looks good, getting good instruction, playing competitive golf - will enjoy watching his progress.

 

[gsrjc]

> @davechen said:

> It is ON LIKE DONKEY KONG! My son and I will be playing our Colony Collapse Disorder matches on the 20th at Blue Mash.

>

> BTW, my son shot a 85 on Saturday and has another tournament next Saturday, so his handicap will be coming down. He's not that happy about that.

Haha... nice. Bluemash was in okay shape. The course is redoing some of the bunkers so they are torn up and i noticed a few less trees standing then usual. The greens were okay but sorta slow. They had the golf channel amateur tour yesterday. i also don't remember it being $89 last year.

 

[XHoop24]

> @gsrjc said:

> > @davechen said:

> > It is ON LIKE DONKEY KONG! My son and I will be playing our Colony Collapse Disorder matches on the 20th at Blue Mash.

> >

> > BTW, my son shot a 85 on Saturday and has another tournament next Saturday, so his handicap will be coming down. He's not that happy about that.

> Haha... nice. Bluemash was in okay shape. The course is redoing some of the bunkers so they are torn up and i noticed a few less trees standing then usual. The greens were okay but sorta slow. They had the golf channel amateur tour yesterday. i also don't remember it being $89 last year.

>

 

Meant to ask above - but how was Epic Flash SZ? What caused move away from M3?

 

[davechen]

Oh, and one of the other kids in his group was playing MP33's with X-stiff shafts. So now he's on eBay looking at those. :roll_eyes:

[gsrjc]

> @XHoop24 said:

> > @gsrjc said:

> > > @davechen said:

> > > It is ON LIKE DONKEY KONG! My son and I will be playing our Colony Collapse Disorder matches on the 20th at Blue Mash.

> > >

> > > BTW, my son shot a 85 on Saturday and has another tournament next Saturday, so his handicap will be coming down. He's not that happy about that.

> > Haha... nice. Bluemash was in okay shape. The course is redoing some of the bunkers so they are torn up and i noticed a few less trees standing then usual. The greens were okay but sorta slow. They had the golf channel amateur tour yesterday. i also don't remember it being $89 last year.

> >

>

> Meant to ask above - but how was Epic Flash SZ? What caused move away from M3?

>

When i tested it the Epic Flash SZ was slightly faster with ball speed compared to the M3 Tour. i went through a driver fitting with Nick at Club Champion because i knew that i was swinging slower than last year already so i wanted to not lose any distance. long story short after trying different shafts with the M3 tour, the Devotion 7 is still the best for me with ball speed and spin. Used that shaft in a bunch of different heads and the Epic Flash SZ was the only one when hit solid had a 3 mph ball speed increase with 200-300 lower spin rate. on miss hits, the ball speed was identical to pure hits on the M3 Tour with comparable spin rate so decided to switch. I don't particularly like the sound of the ball off the head for the Epic but noise doesn't really affect me when playing. So with the possibility of slightly higher ball speed and lower spin rate, i pulled the trigger. it also helped that my old job gave me a gift certificate to CC so that helped. i have a backup Devotion 7 shaft that i'll put the M3 tour so at least i have that if this doesn't work out. i played bluemash yesterday and was hitting it awesome so who knows.

[FAbb]

If I had to make one overly general comment about junior golfers these days, it's that they care too much about the clubs they play, and they spend too much of their time on the range instead of the course.

[eagle1997]

woodmore A Team matches this past weekend was just fantastic. split on saturday at bowie cc in some rough conditions in a back n forth match, then got swept by a couple +hcps on sunday at beaver creek in front of a walking gallery. really enjoyed the experience both days, we both made some key putts in crucial situations to halve or win holes on both days. after getting killed on the front 9, we somewhat hung with the guys sunday on the back 9, losing the back 2&1 when they went birdie-birdie on 16/17. dudes were flying it 300+ and stuffing wedges, which was awesome to see up close. couple real good golfers, and great sportsmen to boot. they were saying they have a hard time getting ATeam guys from other clubs to come up to their place and compete because no one wants to drive that far just to get their teeth kicked in.

 

we had a bit of a planning snafu with our team, poor communication from our new management and a lack of urgency to get things sorted out/started by our pro. i think we'll be better for the july matches. hopefully we can fill out an A and a B team.

 

i seriously love team match play more than any other type of golf. creates incredible energy and focus. i played pretty well at bowie and was scratching and clawing all through the beaver creek round. 6 lip outs (COUNT 'EM UP) would have made a big difference. felt like those guys had another gear in them tho. would have been nice to make them have to go deeper into their reservoir.

[HighBoomingDraws]

what a weekend! Parlayed yesterday being my born day into the green light to just golf my rear end off the whole time. Ended up playing 68 holes. Played in the AM Saturday with BandonDunes, TheButteryCut and Go_Time. Buttery and I had to skip out after 15 because our A team match was about to start. Now, being a 13 HC and all, I know I have no business being on the A team, but we were short bodies and I was more than willing to step up. Saturday afternoon Buttery and I played 2 older gentlemen from Bowie Country Club. We learned as we were approaching the 1st tee that we'd be playing the tips. Never played back there before. Oh well. Let's see how it goes. First tee shots Buttery and I were 70 yards past our competitors with wedge or 9i in hand. Of course they both hit these fluttery soft fairway woods onto the green that look like they landed like an 8i. We pushed the hole with pars but that set up the theme for the day. These guys were consistently in the fairway and on or around the greens. One guy was like Seve chipping the ball around the green with his 5 wood. Every chip within 5 or 6 feet! I couldn't believe it. If Buttery and I sprayed one off the tee and weren't hamming and egging right, we were in serious trouble. We managed to win the front but lost the back 9 and 18 on the 17th hole. I didn't play that well but it was a fun experience.

 

Turning the page to Sunday, we tee off first thing again, baddomes, Buttery and myself. We got paired up with a media mogul CFO type from England. Many entertaining conversations were had. We managed to get all 18 in before hustling right back to the first tee to begin our match against Beaver Creek. It seems like we drew some serious sticks (one being a middle aged guy and the other a young stud) as they both pound their drives down the right side of the fairway. Young stud probably got his out there 280 or so. I proceed to roast my drive 40 yards past them and look quickly back at Go_Time who was watching the groups go off, and he was smirking hard. That didn't change for the next few holes and I clearly got in the young stud's head because he couldn't keep up with me. He ended up developing a wipe drive that he hit out of play on consecutive holes. He actually took some VERY CAVALIER drops, I'm thinking 30-50 yards further up then where he should, but we weren't confrontational enough to call him out. Thankfully it didn't matter. I actually contributed a few holes making the putts for pushes or outright wins. Buttery is just an incredibly consistent golfer and rolled in a few birdies along the way. We won all 3 points Sunday and I must say, the competition was exhilarating.

 

Special shout to Buttery for actually spending the whole damned weekend out there with me. It was a ton of fun and hopefully a sign of things to come this summer at Woodmore!

[TheCityGame]

Few A-team stories :

We start on Cattail Saturday. One guy hits one OB. Other guy hits it right into a hazard. Has to take a horrible drop. Off hard pan, 170 out, up a hill, over a tree. Hits one to 20 feet and makes the putt for par. I barely slide in a 5 footer to halve after getting in a bunker.

 

On hole 2 (dogleg left), guy straight-pulls his tee shot, goes through about 5 trees and he has a wedge in from the middle of the fairway. Makes birdie and I'm like, "gonna be one of those days."

 

But we win 3 and I hit a wedge to a foot on 4. We're tied going into 9 and one of their guys has an eagle putt. He makes bird and I just miss my birdie putt and go 1 down.

 

Then, we lose 10, but I make the only par on 11 after a lucky find. Partner birdies 12 and the match is square. They win 13. We win 14 with par. We win 16 with par. They win 17 with par and halve 18 after a guy duffs a chip. 1.5 a piece.

 

Sunday was so fun. I believe we've never made it out of the second round and guys were fired up. Some good vibes in the group text. I got swapped to play at home. So, I go out and I birdie 1, and par 2 for the win.

 

3rd hole, I hit a wedge to 10 feet, pin high, side-hill. They're hacking it around and as I walk to the green, I tell my partner, "par is going to win this hole". Boom. Guy chips in from over the green. But, I roll in a curly 10 footer and those guys are steaming a little. 3 up.

 

4th hole is the toughest hole at Turf. I hit a nice drive and I've still got 180. All carry. Pin is on a back shelf over a bunker and I center-face a 6 iron to 6 feet. AGAIN, the bad guys are mucking it up, but the guy who just chipped in now rolls in a curling down hill 20 footer for par. I'm above the hole and BREATHE on it. It rolls out to right, wobbles back to the left, straightens out, wobbles to the left edge of the cup and STOPS. . .then does a "IN YOUR LIFE. . ." moment and falls over the edge. 4 up.

 

We win the front by 3. I win 11 with par to go to 4/1. Then we get to 12. A 490 yard par 5. We've got a small gallery and I smash a drive, then 6 iron that lands near the pin and rolls out to 20 feet. Gets a little applause. Now the guy who made those early pars hits a 7 iron to 2 feet. No one claps. He asks for a little love from the gallery. It was such a great shot. Anyway. . .I know I have to sink and I hit a beauty that falls in dead center. He says later he was ready to kill me after that hole.

 

My partner birdies the next hole (oof), and we're 2 up on the back, 5 overall. Lost the next hole, but they couldn't get into us anymore. We won the 18th with par to make it 2 up on the back.

 

It was one of my best rounds ever. I was 73 with two 3 putts. 2 putts DFCS. I took a double on one hole that would have been a bogey in stroke play. I was pin high in 2 on the par 5 17th and made bogey as my ball was basically sitting in a pitch mark, but not it's own, and I tried a superchunk that didn't go well. That had birdie written all over it until I saw the lie.

 

 

[HighBoomingDraws]

both guys getting on in 2 with mid irons had to be fun to watch. I had a 4i in on 8 yesterday and was really feeling my oats. The young stud got on with some ridiculous driving iron from 260 or so. I was so revved up to match him mano-y-mano, but I hooked my 4i into the drink. So disappointing.