MD/DC/VA Golfers - Twelve Monkeys Mental Divergence

[TheCityGame]

On 11/9/2020 at 8:51 PM, mizuno player said:

Played PB Dye today. It's in nice shape and the greens are as fast and firm as I've ever seen them. Everything was running out. Weather today couldn't have been better I don't think. I still wish they would redo the green on 12. Just makes no sense to me. 

I literally can't even.  

 

It's the greatest green in the entire state and I don't even think it's close. Well, nothing is coming to mind. 

 

IMO. . .like, there's that green -- toss it out, and then have a discussion about the best greens in the state that AREN'T that green.  14 at PB Dye would be in the running. 

 

[FAbb]

PB Dye has awesome greens.  I should probably put on my flame suit before making this suggestion, but I think they're better than Worthington's greens.  It just feels like it's a little easier to get balls into the correct sections at PB than it is at Worthington.

 

I love the green on 2, for a short par 3.

 

5 is an awesome green.  It's a super wavy potato chip, with a couple bowls.

 

8 is fun.  The back-left pin is tough because it's such a long shot, but the green itself helps you to feed one back there.

 

I could keep going.

[mizuno player]

1 hour ago, FAbb said:

PB Dye has awesome greens.  I should probably put on my flame suit before making this suggestion, but I think they're better than Worthington's greens.  It just feels like it's a little easier to get balls into the correct sections at PB than it is at Worthington.

 

I love the green on 2, for a short par 3.

 

5 is an awesome green.  It's a super wavy potato chip, with a couple bowls.

 

8 is fun.  The back-left pin is tough because it's such a long shot, but the green itself helps you to feed one back there.

 

I could keep going.

I agree PB has really good greens. Especially when they are as fast and firm as they were Monday.  A lot of chips will funnel to the hole. 

I just don't like the 12th green. 

[SullGolf]

Im also a big fan of the 12th green at PB.  There aren't many places north of Tobacco Road where you get to hit crazy putts like that.

 

The green on 5 is interesting, but for that hole I don't like it at all.  It's probably the only green there I don't like.  It has that false front before you get on the green, then it slopes front to back.  You're usually playing a longer approach club.  If you land it short it stops.  If you land it on it flies to the back.  The best option there is usually just to hit it long and then try to get up and down.  The few times I've seen people hit that green, it's usually a long hitter who is playing up a set of boxes and can come in there with a short iron, but that's not how it's designed to be played.

[FAbb]

The snack mess at my new office is like a time machine back to the thread, circa 2013 - It's got Nekot Cookies, and Grandma's Vanilla Sandwich Cookies!

 

@eagle1997 @GooseHook @Puppetmaster

Edited November 11, 2020 by FAbb

[thechief16]

Wet out at WoMan this morning with @Puppetmaster, but the course is in primo shape.  We went off as a two some and waited behind a slow a** 4 some (playing from 3 different tees) for 5-9, then passed them at the turn and blew through the back in 1:30. We both hit the ball as expected, like a couple 45-50 year olds who don't play as much as they used to because kids. WoMan is a surprisingly good walk/push, especially if you know what you are doing (HT to Dom and Tyler who showed me some tricks out there when we played last year). 

[jak77]

6 hours ago, thechief16 said:

Wet out at WoMan this morning with @Puppetmaster, but the course is in primo shape.  We went off as a two some and waited behind a slow a** 4 some (playing from 3 different tees) for 5-9, then passed them at the turn and blew through the back in 1:30. We both hit the ball as expected, like a couple 45-50 year olds who don't play as much as they used to because kids. WoMan is a surprisingly good walk/push, especially if you know what you are doing (HT to Dom and Tyler who showed me some tricks out there when we played last year). 

 

Agreed about the conditions, great shape.  Was out there this morning as well.  Played 1-4 before my group decided to call it quits.  Passed a twosome pushing on our way in, wonder if that was you?  Pro shop gave us a rain check for the amount we paid, so basically played 4 holes for free.  

[thechief16]

Passed us on 9 fairway?  That was us.  That was definitely the worst of the weather (5-9 for us).

[mizuno player]

11 hours ago, SullGolf said:

Im also a big fan of the 12th green at PB.  There aren't many places north of Tobacco Road where you get to hit crazy putts like that.

 

The green on 5 is interesting, but for that hole I don't like it at all.  It's probably the only green there I don't like.  It has that false front before you get on the green, then it slopes front to back.  You're usually playing a longer approach club.  If you land it short it stops.  If you land it on it flies to the back.  The best option there is usually just to hit it long and then try to get up and down.  The few times I've seen people hit that green, it's usually a long hitter who is playing up a set of boxes and can come in there with a short iron, but that's not how it's designed to be played.

Seems I'm wired really backwards. I don't mind the 5th green. In my opinion PB Dye is not a course that's boring. Every shot takes attention. No easy shot where you can just hit it except maybe the tee shot on funny enough #12. That fairway is so wide it's hard to miss. Somehow I have missed it .. 

[TheCityGame]

it all just depends on what your rating criteria are. 

 

If you enjoy a green where a ball can roll within 5 feet of the hole, stop, and roll 60 feet away and you have a 10 foot uphill shot that you can hit with a putter, a PW, a SW, or bump a hybrid and you like to laugh at fellow golfer's (and your own) feeble attempts to get the next one close, then 12 is the hole for you. I love that stuff. 

 

Up top isn't even the only good pin there. Front right has a little flat spot that holds balls, but if you just miss, it can get away to the low spot, and if you rocket in a 3 wood approach that takes off and gets up top, then everyone is going to be in for a treat on your next attempt.

 

There are plenty of "funnel spots" on that green that provide good bird opportunities too. 

 

The drive is wide open, but it's blind and you need to know the hole. You need to go a little further right than you think. I never feel 100% comfortable  with blind tee shots. 

[gregh729]

Everytime I play it and the pin is on the lower tier, we will hit a putt from the far left part of the top tier and try to stop it on the green. almost impossible

[Puppetmaster]

I want Jazz Janewattananond to win the Masters and a bunch of other tourneys, just so that commentators have to say that name again and again and again. 

[Puppetmaster]

19 hours ago, thechief16 said:

Wet out at WoMan this morning with @Puppetmaster, but the course is in primo shape.  We went off as a two some and waited behind a slow a** 4 some (playing from 3 different tees) for 5-9, then passed them at the turn and blew through the back in 1:30. We both hit the ball as expected, like a couple 45-50 year olds who don't play as much as they used to because kids. WoMan is a surprisingly good walk/push, especially if you know what you are doing (HT to Dom and Tyler who showed me some tricks out there when we played last year). 

 

Thanks. Good times as always. Definitely lost the gamble on the weather, but other than the patch of heavy rain AND waiting for the group ahead during the same spell, it was good. Course held up well while we were out, and the greens were already slick and ran smoothly even in the wet. They told us the greens were just cut and rolled, running at a 12 before the rain. Anyway, it is just such a solid course both in terms of challenge and conditions, I may have to try to come up again at least one more time this year. 

 

Yeah, struggled with the game itself for sure. Hit some solid shots, made some putts, and was surprisingly decent around the greens, but 40-110 yards was straight trash. The "nice" thing about not playing much is I've had the chance to work on some longer term, significant swing changes and not have to worry about taking it to the course. Seems like it's working out, but obviously will need more actual rounds, not basement foam ball simulation, to translate it to results, which is always the challenge for me.   

 

Also, good IPA on tap, deliciously hot and well seasoned Old Bay wings, and a good burger were the best way to end the round.   

[Puppetmaster]

Not the best light in the rain, but here you go...

 

[Puppetmaster]

Hmmm that picture of 17 looks much better on a PC than my phone, if I might say so myself. 

[FAbb]

The back-right pin on 17!  Any pars?

[Puppetmaster]

Just now, FAbb said:

The back-right pin on 17!  Any pars?

 

No, I missed a 6 footer for par 🙄 after a good pitch from way right.

[thechief16]

2 minutes ago, FAbb said:

The back-right pin on 17!  Any pars?

[jak77]

21 hours ago, thechief16 said:

Passed us on 9 fairway?  That was us.  That was definitely the worst of the weather (5-9 for us).

It might’ve been. I know we passed a twosome pushing but didn’t pay attention to the hole.  Pin on 1 was in a tough spot especially if you missed right. 

[Gmen1204]

Picked this up tonight.

 

[FAbb]

Those nubs look like they could use some trimming...

[SullGolf]

I completely forgot about that adventure. What happened to that putter?

[FAbb]

What do you think happened to it lol. 

 

The important thing is that I’ve been going steady with my sully spider x since last spring. I can’t even bring myself to swap the ratty grip for a fresh one. 

[Puppetmaster]

3 hours ago, jak77 said:

It might’ve been. I know we passed a twosome pushing but didn’t pay attention to the hole.  Pin on 1 was in a tough spot especially if you missed right. 

Pretty sure we were the only ones walking/pushing yesterday haha. 

[FAbb]

This situation came up the other day, more than once.  It's come up at the home course several times recently as well.  It came up at Worthington at least once a few weeks ago.  Sometimes you get a pin cut on or in very close proximity to a substantial slope.  You have a putt that is perpendicular or somewhere in the ballpark of perpendicular to it, but your straight line to the hole is on a gentler slope.  I wonder what the ideal strategy is in those scenarios, to average the fewest putts. 

 

The only way you have any chance of making the putt is to throw it way up onto the slope.  The downside is that inevitably that slope makes your putt gather speed as it approaches, and runs past the hole.  It seems like even if you could hit a putt with absolute perfect speed, and get your ball to nearly come to a stop at the crest of the slope, it would still just gather up speed from there and run by.

 

On the opposite end of the spectrum, let's say you just whack one directly at the hole, to avoid the slope as much as possible.  It won't have nearly as much speed as it approaches the hole, since you haven't thrown the putt way up onto the slope, but you're still going to miss the hole by a decent margin since you've played zero break.

 

Are either of those approaches ideal, and you just accept that you're going to 3-putt a lot in those scenarios?  Or is there a happy medium, where you play just enough break that you avoid getting a ball way up onto a slope where it's going to gather speed, but you've given yourself a little cushion direction-wise such that you don't miss the hole by a mile?

 

I'm going to cross post this in the instruction forum, to see what other wrx'ers think as well.

[FAbb]

Horrible diagram, with no basis in science, to illustrate what I'm talking about.

[TheCityGame]

@Puppetmaster are those pics all iPhone? 

 

They have a "depth" that looks like a short-focal length lens. 

 

The one of 17 (without Chief) is sweet. The one with Chief is sweet too, but it's degrees of sweetness. 

[Puppetmaster]

@FAbb I'm almost always taking the red line for a good balance of making it or not leaving it too far from the hole, but in a non-stroke play situation where it's a must make putt, I will take less break and give it a run, perhaps closer to the yellow line. 

[Puppetmaster]

1 minute ago, TheCityGame said:

@Puppetmaster are those pics all iPhone? 

 

They have a "depth" that looks like a short-focal length lens. 

 

The one of 17 (without Chief) is sweet. The one with Chief is sweet too, but it's degrees of sweetness. 

 

Yeah, but it's the "old" original iPhone X. I love the one of 17th myself, honestly, with the rain, I was just firing away so I'm surprised at how well that one came out. 

[FAbb]

4 minutes ago, Puppetmaster said:

@FAbb I'm almost always taking the red line for a good balance of making it or not leaving it too far from the hole, but in a non-stroke play situation where it's a must make putt, I will take less break and give it a run, perhaps closer to the yellow line. 

 

The red line is the "give it a chance to go in" line.

 

The yellow line is supposed to be starting it at the hole.

 

What I'm wondering if if one of those is ideal, or there's a line somewhere in-between that when struck with proper pace has no chance to go in, but leaves you with the shortest second putt on average.  You're just not making that putt often, so unless it's a must-make in a match situation, the idea is to 2-putt it as much as possible.