MD/DC/VA Golfers - Twelve Monkeys Mental Divergence

[dcmidnight]

No contest.

 

[FAbb]

Should've known that one was coming lol.

 

I've actually never played the hole.  Let's see some more details on when and how that tree comes into play, and why you dislike it.

[GooseHook]

3 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

Sidenote - is anyone watching Queens Gambit on Netflix? Watched the first episode last night, really good. I think that makes at least six shows I'm watching now that I cant just grind through, I have to stop and completely start over with a new show.

 

Watched the whole thing over the weekend, it was excellent. My wife even thought chess was cool by the end...seriously. Apparently based on a book from the 80's. 

[TheCityGame]

21 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

Sidenote - is anyone watching Queens Gambit on Netflix? Watched the first episode last night, really good. I think that makes at least six shows I'm watching now that I cant just grind through, I have to stop and completely start over with a new show.

Started ep 1. I need to work it in somehow. 

 

For the foreseeable future, I'm dropping HBO and picked up Hulu/Disney because Mandalorian came back. We watch and episode of "Pen15"  each day during lunchwhich is funny, and started "The Great". But I just haven't had the tube on too much lately.

[GooseHook]

17 hours ago, ALTSean said:

We have a long Par 4 (448 yds from Blue, 464 yds from Black) at Army / Navy.  From the blue tees, a drive of about 250 still leaves you with around 200 yds in over a creek to an elevated green.  There is a large stone retaining wall that keeps the green up away from the creek, but can also repel bad / low shots and is considered an integral object so there is no relief.  If you can drive it 250, then you can probably hit a 200 yd approach, but for guys who may only drive it 220-230, they are not going to hit a 220-230 yd approach over trouble to get on it 2 so they have to lay up to the narrow area and then still hit a delicate pitch across the creek and the stone wall.  The trees line the right side and block you out too if your short or right so it's a hole that really favors length.  It used be a Par 5 like 10+ years ago and so the older members remember it being a 5 and liked it better as a risk / reward Par 5 than a longish Par 4 that plays like a 5 for the shorter and older guys.  It is funny how a hole's par influences our thinking.  The scoring average on this hole likely did not change, but folks were a lot happier with a "par" 5 or "bogey" 6 vice a "bogey" 5 or "double bogey" 6.  It's the #1 rated hole on that 9 and it's tough, but fair IMO.     

 

 

That's the downhill one, right after the turn? EZ, the last bunker on the left is 320 carry. 

[Boogs2]

30 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

No contest.

 

 

 

I actually like that hole.  The only hole I really found "unfair" was Redgate 16.  F**k that hole.

[ALTSean]

15 minutes ago, GooseHook said:

That's the downhill one, right after the turn? EZ, the last bunker on the left is 320 carry. 

 

It's the 2nd hole on the "Red" nine so it can be your 2nd hole of the day or your 11th hole.  

 

A 320 yd carry does present you some additional options.    

 

 

[ALTSean]

33 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

No contest.

 

 

What course and hole #?

 

Are those trees planted on the green?

 

 

[SullGolf]

I can't think of an "unfair" hole on any course I play once a year. 

 

The Potomac Shore tree hole isn't really unfair because you can just play around them.  It makes it a dumb forced 3 shotter, but that's not necessarily unfair.  The trees are skinny enough that I hit one between them in a scramble, but wouldn't try it playing my own ball.

 

17 at Waverly is the closest thing I can think of off the top of my head.  I don't know what you'd do to fix that besides re-grading the landing area.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by SullGolf

[TheCityGame]

I guess I actually don't know what "unfair" means. I think I'd take it to mean that a well-hit golf shot and a poorly-hit golf shot have similar odds of winding up in similar "shots to go" positions.

 

Like an "unfair" golf hole to me would be shaped either like a funnel, or a big smooth upside down bowl. 

 

In the funnel situation, all shots, no matter how accurate or far they're hit, all get funneled back to the exact same spot. In the opposite example, all shots get funneled OFF to equally bad positions. 

 

 

"hard" doesn't mean unfair. 

 

Hole 15 at Pine Ridge in very firm conditions could be considered "unfair". A ball hit into the middle of the fairway can wind up in the left hazard, the same as a ball that was hooked off the tee. And because of the tree and root situation along the side of the water, it was sort of crap shoot whether you'd have a tough lay-up or a shot at the green. IOW, a 275 yard drive that wound up in the hazard might have a worse shot at the green than a 250 drive, and that might be better than a 225 shot, and that might be worse than a 200 shot, but it happens on an unpredictable "micro level". 

 

The other side of the equation on a hole like that is that SOME balls that are hit in the middle of the fairway wind up in a great position. like if all balls hit in the middle of the fairway wound up in the left hazard ,then the middle of the fairway is a bad shot. But, it's a micro-difference that could come down to an ant hill, or an undried puddle whether your ball winds up in position A or position F. 

 

Also on that hole, the bail out is into the right rough, which has enough trees in it (and is patchy enough) that one shot can have a good lie/look at the green and one shot can have a bad lie/look. 

 

Also, so the story goes, Arnold Palmer called that the only "real" golf hole on the course. 

 

So, who knows. 

 

 

[SullGolf]

I think #7 at Blue Mash can begin to get "unfair" when the tees are where they are supposed to be (i.e. blues on the back box).  The drive then becomes pretty tough, and you have a 150+ approach to a green that is well guarded and sloped in a way to not be receptive.  I bet it's one of the hardest greens in the entire area to hold from 150+ yards.  I feel like I don't have a chance unless I have a wedge in my hands.

 

But anything I can think of to make it "more fair" around the green would also make it less interesting from the forward box.  Maybe they could add a new tee box between the forward and back sets.  Then you could take on the risk of hitting D to get a wedge or hitting less and having the tough 2nd shot.

Edited November 3, 2020 by SullGolf

[dcmidnight]

8 minutes ago, SullGolf said:

It makes it a dumb forced 3 shotter, but that's not necessarily unfair. 

 

You cant really play around them though.

 

I've always said I would have been fine with that bowl where the trees are being a giant pond. You want to penalize people who miss the green? You want to make people really think over that second shot? No problem. 

 

I'd have to think this over some more but a dumb forced 3 shotter to me is by definition, unfair. And I dont mean a 3 shotter from a distance standpoint. I have no problems with that. I dont need a par 5 to be short or wide open or easy. But if you pipe one in the middle of the fairway, where the architect has said, this is where you hit the ball on this tee shot - you should not be presented with a wall of trees on your second - which is probably a 3 wood or 2 iron from there.

 

BTW that pin is on the right edge of the green, when its on the far left, its a joke.

 

I've heard that course has been in terrible shape lately. Good. F that course.

[dcmidnight]

(right now SaltyFabb is googling for pictures of MtV 9)

[baddomes]

48 minutes ago, TheCityGame said:

We watch and episode of "Pen15"  each day during lunch

 

File under "things said by people either during a pandemic or who live in a nursing home"

[misplacedtexan83]

25 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

(right now SaltyFabb is googling for pictures of MtV 9)

 

Moving the tee boxes to the right of the practice green would make this hole a lot better. However, I was just off the green in two last week.. just have to send it!

 

correction to the right*

Edited November 3, 2020 by misplacedtexan83

[baddomes]

Pin locations can be unfair, but I can't think of a single golf hole I've ever played which the design of the hole is unfair. 

 

I played Bedford a couple of weeks ago.  It was windy, and the greens were fast.  The hardest scoring conditions I've seen at that course over 20+ rounds.  

 

Volcano - On top of it being a 3w, the green is two tiered.  They had the hole cut on the very beginning of the slope on the top of the tier.  My dad hit the green off the tee, and I was just a yard short in the rough off the tee.  We both took X's.  That's the only thing that comes to mind when I think unfair.

[TheCityGame]

3 minutes ago, baddomes said:

 

File under "things said by people either during a pandemic or who live in a nursing home"

Yeah. 

 

We stay away from each other all day long, but we eat lunch together and typically watch 30 minutes of tv. 

 

Pen15 is this show on Hulu written by these two women who are in their 30's. it's about being in junior high and they play themselves as junior high kids, but every other kid on the show is actually like 12 or 13. We find it very funny. They're really awkward.

[GooseHook]

The dumb/difficult combination is the type of hole I don't like. As in, hard because you need to hit the ball in the exact same spot every single time. Or certain pins that are actually easier to get to from the rough. 

[thechief16]

I'm kind of with City.  I'm not sure what "unfair" is. When I try and think of an "unfair" hole, I keep ending up with one where an A+ drive (270yd within a 10 yard landing area) still requires a A+ approach (150y, shaped) to access the flag (usually precipitated by a tree greenside).  Like Westfields 8.  That's not unfair.  It's just really f'in hard.  Maybe it's something like a couple of the holes at the old Generals Ridge, where the fairways were so sloped you could literally hit a perfect drive, with the right shape, and the ball would still bounce into the woods/rough. 

 

 

[Puppetmaster]

Speaking of unfair/debatable, anyone been to PoSho recently? How's the DCMidnight tree on #10 holding up? 

[Puppetmaster]

Dammit I should have scrolled up - should have known that would already have come up lol

[Puppetmaster]

1 hour ago, Boogs2 said:

 

 

I actually like that hole.  The only hole I really found "unfair" was Redgate 16.  F**k that hole.

 

Is that the par 5 with the fence/rough across the middle of the fairway, then a steep drop downhill and a green the width of a golf cart? 

 

That is also the hole with the portapotty that looks like someone expelled vindaloo all over it, walls, ceiling, everywhere, you should have stopped me from even trying to look in... just sayin. 

[FAbb]

1 hour ago, TheCityGame said:

I guess I actually don't know what "unfair" means. I think I'd take it to mean that a well-hit golf shot and a poorly-hit golf shot have similar odds of winding up in similar "shots to go" positions.

 

Like an "unfair" golf hole to me would be shaped either like a funnel, or a big smooth upside down bowl. 

 

In the funnel situation, all shots, no matter how accurate or far they're hit, all get funneled back to the exact same spot. In the opposite example, all shots get funneled OFF to equally bad positions. 

 

I think this is a pretty excellent definition.  No hole will fit these definitions 100% but there are holes that exhibit these characteristics.

 

Like 17 at Waverly is borderline, when it's firm.  There's probably like 5% or less of perfect distance and line tee shots that you can keep up on the left side of the fairway.  But the other 95% of shots are all going to run into the right rough and be blocked out from the green by trees.

[Huggs157]

2 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

No contest.

 

 

One of the easiest* holes at Posho, making 5 almost feels like bogey....  (*need to know where to hit it...was a member there for a while)  Can understand the difficulty if you never really played there, can be said about the entire course.  Course (Posho) gets lots of hate but still one of my favorites in the DC area.  

 

Hello all, new member and found this thread.  Took the year off for obvious reasons but have been itching to get out.   It's been fun reading up on this local thread, entertaining to say the least.  Hopefully can join one of your events in the future since I'm without a club now.  

Edited November 3, 2020 by Huggs157

[SullGolf]

PoSho conspiracy theory: Jack kept the trees in the middle of that hole to act as a magnet for all the haters.  Distracts from all of the other holes that go fairway to cart path to GONE in the span of 5 yards.  Here we are talking about how you have to play around the trees instead of how you're hitting 3 off the tee because of a stupid cart path and how the holes are built in to the side of a hill.

[dcmidnight]

PoSho was a great track when it first opened because it truly was in the middle of nowhere. Yes there are half mile transfers to the next tee box but you felt like you were in the middle of the woods. And you literally had to drive your cart through the woods to get to the range. Now they've just made it like any other super-massive housing development with 4,000+ homes or whatever they have there. The porch is no longer the quiet/serene/chill place to hang and watch people come up 18 - because instead of a nice green forest you are staring at yet another row of giant overpriced townhouses.

 

I laugh at all of the publicity photos they use of the clubhouse, they must all be three+ years old, none of them show all of the development around the clubhouse now.

 

Oh and I guess on top of everything, thats not even the 18th green anymore.

From a golf standpoint there's no reason I'd head South and drive past Laurel Hill to get to PoSho.

[tungstenplug]

.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by tungstenplug

[FAbb]

There are few things in golf that can match the level of rage seeing a golf ball bounce off a cart path into a hazard/OB can generate.

[Boogs2]

For the VA people, I know it's closed now, but how was Generals Ridge?  I had friends who played it and said it was target golf which made the course difficult.  But then again, they were in the mid to higher handicap players so it may have been unfair to them but not bad to a better player.

[dcmidnight]

9 minutes ago, Boogs2 said:

For the VA people, I know it's closed now, but how was Generals Ridge?  I had friends who played it and said it was target golf which made the course difficult.  But then again, they were in the mid to higher handicap players so it may have been unfair to them but not bad to a better player.

 

Awful.

 

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