Why don't people take lessons ?

[NPVWhiz]

It’s a bit like dating when you were young. I dated girls that were smart and girls that were fun, and had great personalities, but were not so bright. It was a miracle to find one bright, smart, fun and with a great personality. I don’t think lightning will strike me twice. And besides, I’m too old now to waste any time.

 

I liken the whole thing to the world of financial advisors. The wide majority of them don’t understand what I understand about the academic finance literature and I read papers as a pastime. Why would I hire a financial advisor that couldn’t teach a donkey to dance? But, that leaves me in the same position. The only financial advisor I would trust is busy working for fellas that have several more exponents of net worth than I do. So it is what it is.

 

But you know the old story about teaching a donkey to dance, right? You ask a guy, “can you teach this donkey to dance?”

 

The guy that doesn’t know how to dance will say, “no, I can’t teach a donkey to dance”.

 

The guy that is arrogant and doesn’t know what he doesn’t know will say, “sure, I can teach that donkey to dance”.

 

But there is also the guy that will say “No, I can’t teach that donkey to dance.”

 

“Why?” you ask.

 

“Because donkeys can’t dance.”, he replies.

 

That’s the guy you want.

 

I think there are a lot of golf instructors out there tryin’ to teach donkeys to dance, and I don’t want to be a donkey.

 

And yes, I made the tale about the donkey up as I was writing this. It seemed apropos.

[TexasTurf]

It sounds like we're on the same page. A lot of the big name guys are the arrogant ones as you described. With books and methods and tour pros etc. There's a reason most of the big name players switch teachers every few years - the teacher is into their own success not the player's.

 

I haven't taken lessons either. I'm still searching for someone without a method in my area (who is actually affordable) who could help me work on what my image of what I'm trying to do is, while also being critical, but not trying to force a swing into a "this is what the majority of tour pros do right now" swing. These technologies they use measure the effects of the forces and feels they have applied but not the intentions or feels that the player has.

[nsxguy]

There are super talented teachers, but you're looking at spending over $1000 to get in the door.

 

The teacher's I've seen that charge that much aren't really that good, they're just famous.

 

THIS is why "people don't take lessons".

 

They have no clue.

[BB28403]

I understand that you want an intelligent golf instructor, and you should. However, golf is about physical movement, not philosophy. A good golf instructor who is obsessed with what he does is going to focus on that and be very knowledgeable of that field, but probably much less so in philosophy. And an instructor that is a very knowledgeable about philosophy probably doesn't put enough time into researching and experimenting with physical movement.

 

The best instructors are really into golf. It is almost all they think about, and they love it.

 

Basically, not knowing or caring about philosophy does not mean that the instructor is less intelligent. They have just focused their effort, time, and thoughts in a different field.

 

But it is like everything else, you have to find the guy that really cares and obsesses over it, not the guy who is in it for the check and lifestyle.

 

I’m stunned. Golf is philosophy. I love golf and live it every day. Golf is the pursuit of excellence.

 

If all they knew was movement then they would not understand how to play. How to see outside yourself to see how to play. The golf swing is only 10% of the game. The real game is in between your ears.

[Ghost of Snead]

I understand that you want an intelligent golf instructor, and you should. However, golf is about physical movement, not philosophy. A good golf instructor who is obsessed with what he does is going to focus on that and be very knowledgeable of that field, but probably much less so in philosophy. And an instructor that is a very knowledgeable about philosophy probably doesn't put enough time into researching and experimenting with physical movement.

 

The best instructors are really into golf. It is almost all they think about, and they love it.

 

Basically, not knowing or caring about philosophy does not mean that the instructor is less intelligent. They have just focused their effort, time, and thoughts in a different field.

 

But it is like everything else, you have to find the guy that really cares and obsesses over it, not the guy who is in it for the check and lifestyle.

 

I’m stunned. Golf is philosophy. I love golf and live it every day. Golf is the pursuit of excellence.

 

If all they knew was movement then they would not understand how to play. How to see outside yourself to see how to play. The golf swing is only 10% of the game. The real game is in between your ears.

 

If one has a sound golf swing, the amount of traffic between the ears is reduced drastically.

[Swisstrader98]

I believe it was Lee Trevino who said he would only take lessons from a guy who could beat him and he never found that guy?

 

On a more serious note, finding a decent instructor is like finding the right lawyer, therapist or doctor. Need to shop around a bit and find someone who fits with your style.

 

When I first took lessons, I was very fortunate in a weird way. Took lessons in the Catskills mountains of NY in a bit of a depressed area at a course that had seen better days and by a pro that was down on his luck and quite a character. Sold me a package deal of 10 lessons for $100. How could I pass that up?? And they were the best lessons I’ve ever had since. He was no BS, very hands on and barely looked at the clock when the lessons started or ended. The guy just loved to teach and see his students learn. That was about 25 years ago.

[BB28403]

I understand that you want an intelligent golf instructor, and you should. However, golf is about physical movement, not philosophy. A good golf instructor who is obsessed with what he does is going to focus on that and be very knowledgeable of that field, but probably much less so in philosophy. And an instructor that is a very knowledgeable about philosophy probably doesn't put enough time into researching and experimenting with physical movement.

 

The best instructors are really into golf. It is almost all they think about, and they love it.

 

Basically, not knowing or caring about philosophy does not mean that the instructor is less intelligent. They have just focused their effort, time, and thoughts in a different field.

 

But it is like everything else, you have to find the guy that really cares and obsesses over it, not the guy who is in it for the check and lifestyle.

 

Iâ€â„¢m stunned. Golf is philosophy. I love golf and live it every day. Golf is the pursuit of excellence.

 

If all they knew was movement then they would not understand how to play. How to see outside yourself to see how to play. The golf swing is only 10% of the game. The real game is in between your ears.

 

If one has a sound golf swing, the amount of traffic between the ears is reduced drastically.

 

Yes, chasing a golf swing will make you dumber. ;)

[MK7Golf21]

I understand that you want an intelligent golf instructor, and you should. However, golf is about physical movement, not philosophy. A good golf instructor who is obsessed with what he does is going to focus on that and be very knowledgeable of that field, but probably much less so in philosophy. And an instructor that is a very knowledgeable about philosophy probably doesn't put enough time into researching and experimenting with physical movement.

 

The best instructors are really into golf. It is almost all they think about, and they love it.

 

Basically, not knowing or caring about philosophy does not mean that the instructor is less intelligent. They have just focused their effort, time, and thoughts in a different field.

 

But it is like everything else, you have to find the guy that really cares and obsesses over it, not the guy who is in it for the check and lifestyle.

 

I’m stunned. Golf is philosophy. I love golf and live it every day. Golf is the pursuit of excellence.

 

If all they knew was movement then they would not understand how to play. How to see outside yourself to see how to play. The golf swing is only 10% of the game. The real game is in between your ears.

 

If one has a sound golf swing, the amount of traffic between the ears is reduced drastically.

 

that's true. You see weekend golfers comment they don't understand how pro golfers play with all the camera's and spectators. Well that's because the weekend golfer tops and chunks many of their shots. When you are good, alot of the nerves go away.

[crapula]

There is no way in hell I would be a 1 handicap if I didn't take lessons. I was basically a 50 handicap when I started 10 years ago at age 27 and I took lessons from day one. I can't even remember how many different coaches I've been to, at least 20.

 

People ask me how I got to where I am and none of them like the answer: Take lessons and practice every day. In the beginning I was hitting 300 balls a day at the range.

 

You want to get good at something? Practice every day, no excuses.

You want to get even better? Make sure you are practicing correctly. The best way to do this is to get lessons.

 

 

Professional athletes, musicians, actors, etc. have a coach, practice, and improve. Most have to practice just to maintain the level they have achieved.

We are no different. Practice to maintain and practice to get better. EVERY DAY.

[BeerPerHole]

Good question. My first reaction is "cost".

 

When I started playing (with lessons) I was the worst golfer I've ever seen.

[Ghost of Snead]

I understand that you want an intelligent golf instructor, and you should. However, golf is about physical movement, not philosophy. A good golf instructor who is obsessed with what he does is going to focus on that and be very knowledgeable of that field, but probably much less so in philosophy. And an instructor that is a very knowledgeable about philosophy probably doesn't put enough time into researching and experimenting with physical movement.

 

The best instructors are really into golf. It is almost all they think about, and they love it.

 

Basically, not knowing or caring about philosophy does not mean that the instructor is less intelligent. They have just focused their effort, time, and thoughts in a different field.

 

But it is like everything else, you have to find the guy that really cares and obsesses over it, not the guy who is in it for the check and lifestyle.

 

Iâ€â„¢m stunned. Golf is philosophy. I love golf and live it every day. Golf is the pursuit of excellence.

 

If all they knew was movement then they would not understand how to play. How to see outside yourself to see how to play. The golf swing is only 10% of the game. The real game is in between your ears.

 

If one has a sound golf swing, the amount of traffic between the ears is reduced drastically.

 

Yes, chasing a golf swing will make you dumber. ;)

 

Not if you catch what you're chasing ;)

[BB28403]

I understand that you want an intelligent golf instructor, and you should. However, golf is about physical movement, not philosophy. A good golf instructor who is obsessed with what he does is going to focus on that and be very knowledgeable of that field, but probably much less so in philosophy. And an instructor that is a very knowledgeable about philosophy probably doesn't put enough time into researching and experimenting with physical movement.

 

The best instructors are really into golf. It is almost all they think about, and they love it.

 

Basically, not knowing or caring about philosophy does not mean that the instructor is less intelligent. They have just focused their effort, time, and thoughts in a different field.

 

But it is like everything else, you have to find the guy that really cares and obsesses over it, not the guy who is in it for the check and lifestyle.

 

Iâ€â„¢m stunned. Golf is philosophy. I love golf and live it every day. Golf is the pursuit of excellence.

 

If all they knew was movement then they would not understand how to play. How to see outside yourself to see how to play. The golf swing is only 10% of the game. The real game is in between your ears.

 

If one has a sound golf swing, the amount of traffic between the ears is reduced drastically.

 

Yes, chasing a golf swing will make you dumber. ;)

 

Not if you catch what you're chasing ;)

 

You will catch a cold with that attitude

[BB28403]

I understand that you want an intelligent golf instructor, and you should. However, golf is about physical movement, not philosophy. A good golf instructor who is obsessed with what he does is going to focus on that and be very knowledgeable of that field, but probably much less so in philosophy. And an instructor that is a very knowledgeable about philosophy probably doesn't put enough time into researching and experimenting with physical movement.

 

The best instructors are really into golf. It is almost all they think about, and they love it.

 

Basically, not knowing or caring about philosophy does not mean that the instructor is less intelligent. They have just focused their effort, time, and thoughts in a different field.

 

But it is like everything else, you have to find the guy that really cares and obsesses over it, not the guy who is in it for the check and lifestyle.

 

I’m stunned. Golf is philosophy. I love golf and live it every day. Golf is the pursuit of excellence.

 

If all they knew was movement then they would not understand how to play. How to see outside yourself to see how to play. The golf swing is only 10% of the game. The real game is in between your ears.

 

If one has a sound golf swing, the amount of traffic between the ears is reduced drastically.

 

that's true. You see weekend golfers comment they don't understand how pro golfers play with all the camera's and spectators. Well that's because the weekend golfer tops and chunks many of their shots. When you are good, alot of the nerves go away.

 

Go on YouTube and watch a guy called golf sidekick . He is the affirmation that you do not need to chase a swing, playas.

[MK7Golf21]

I understand that you want an intelligent golf instructor, and you should. However, golf is about physical movement, not philosophy. A good golf instructor who is obsessed with what he does is going to focus on that and be very knowledgeable of that field, but probably much less so in philosophy. And an instructor that is a very knowledgeable about philosophy probably doesn't put enough time into researching and experimenting with physical movement.

 

The best instructors are really into golf. It is almost all they think about, and they love it.

 

Basically, not knowing or caring about philosophy does not mean that the instructor is less intelligent. They have just focused their effort, time, and thoughts in a different field.

 

But it is like everything else, you have to find the guy that really cares and obsesses over it, not the guy who is in it for the check and lifestyle.

 

I’m stunned. Golf is philosophy. I love golf and live it every day. Golf is the pursuit of excellence.

 

If all they knew was movement then they would not understand how to play. How to see outside yourself to see how to play. The golf swing is only 10% of the game. The real game is in between your ears.

 

If one has a sound golf swing, the amount of traffic between the ears is reduced drastically.

 

that's true. You see weekend golfers comment they don't understand how pro golfers play with all the camera's and spectators. Well that's because the weekend golfer tops and chunks many of their shots. When you are good, alot of the nerves go away.

 

Go on YouTube and watch a guy called golf sidekick . He is the affirmation that you do not need to chase a swing, playas.

 

Not sure what I was suppose to learn from going to his youtube. Looks like a guy with a fundamentally sounds swing who has a ton of course management thoughts and fights a low hook off the tee.

[retro74]

This is a very interesting thread and one that has prompted me to post after lurking awhile

 

I found it fascinating that someone had gone from a complete novice to a 2 handicap in 18 months with nothing more than hard work and no lessons. I've only been playing regularly (once a week) for about 3 years and am nowhere near that standard so I am really intrigued how you get that good that quickly

 

I've considered lessons for a while but I'm not sure that they suit the way I learn. I usually learn best when I see a skill performed correctly and then I can copy that skill - do lessons even work like that? Does a talented instructor even ask "How do you best learn new skills?" I'm not sure they would

 

The other reason I've not had lesson is similar to what other people have said, it doesn't matter too much - as long as I'm out with my friends and I break 90 every so often I'm ok with that

[FairwaysToHeaven]

part of the problem is there is no correct way to swing. one instructor tells you one thing, another tells you something that is opposite. one instructor tries to fix the slice by changing grip, another tells you its your shoulder line, another tells you to use your hands. its not only there are so many different possibilities in how to diagnose a fault, but there are too often methods that directly contradict each other.

 

over the last two or three weeks i've seen instructors

 

put a poker chip on your putter and instruct the player to make it fall off at start of transition vs another say the chip should remain on your putter to improve tempo

 

an instructor talk about how we need a cupped wrist at top of swing followed by flexion vs another mentioning that cupped at the top needs to be avoided

 

an instructor who states low hands and less ulnar deviation vs another who wants higher hands and fully ulnar deviation at impact

 

an instructor who wants your chest to remain square to ball through impact vs another who wants you to open your chest prior to impact as fast as possible

 

i could go on and on...

 

 

bottom line, golfers are confused and don't know who or what to trust. combine this with the costs involved and its simply avoided. why spend several hundred dollars on lessons to have someone pick apart your swing if you have no real confidence that what they are saying will actually help your game. because often guys that are getting lessons are working on their swing and seeking advice from others. they then watch a youtube video of another famous instructor telling you the exact opposite of what you were just told in your $100 lesson the night before.

[MK7Golf21]

part of the problem is there is no correct way to swing. one instructor tells you one thing, another tells you something that is opposite. one instructor tries to fix the slice by changing grip, another tells you its your shoulder line, another tells you to use your hands. its not only there are so many different possibilities in how to diagnose a fault, but there are too often methods that directly contradict each other.

 

over the last two or three weeks i've seen instructors

 

put a poker chip on your putter and instruct the player to make it fall off at start of transition vs another say the chip should remain on your putter to improve tempo

 

an instructor talk about how we need a cupped wrist at top of swing followed by flexion vs another mentioning that cupped at the top needs to be avoided

 

an instructor who states low hands and less ulnar deviation vs another who wants higher hands and fully ulnar deviation at impact

 

an instructor who wants your chest to remain square to ball through impact vs another who wants you to open your chest prior to impact as fast as possible

 

i could go on and on...

 

 

bottom line, golfers are confused and don't know who or what to trust. combine this with the costs involved and its simply avoided. why spend several hundred dollars on lessons to have someone pick apart your swing if you have no real confidence that what they are saying will actually help your game. because often guys that are getting lessons are working on their swing and seeking advice from others. they then watch a youtube video of another famous instructor telling you the exact opposite of what you were just told in your $100 lesson the night before.

 

You have to pick an instructor who's preferences you agree with and stick with it. Important thing is having them match up, not who's right

[FairwaysToHeaven]

I don't take lessons anymore, maybe 1-2/year, but for me it was the realization that I'm not going to practice, and even if I had time to practice, I'd rather play. But I'm perfectly content with it for now, my game's good enough to play some friendly games for a little scratch.

 

What always amazes me is when I'm working with an instructor and they start talking about how someone is resistant to change and to listen to feedback, even though they are paying good money for that exact service? That always baffles me, why are people so hesitant to try something new?

 

i'd say because often trying something new causes the golfer to feel uncomfortable and hit bad shots. i'm sure there are instructors all over the country that know from the start of the lesson whether that player is committed to making real change or if its going to be a waste of time because the player is filled with excuses on why they do something a certain way and why it just doesn't feel right when they do it the way an instructor tells them to do it.

[FairwaysToHeaven]

I've always wondered what brings the person back who has shot 90+ for the past 20 years but have never asked them....

I haven't played for 20 years but you're basically describing me. And the answer is pretty simple: the surroundings, the exercise and the people I meet. It's just a fun way to spend three or four hours. And borrowing somewhat from an earlier post: You might as well ask why some people tend their gardens. Or knit clothes. Or complete crosswords. Or paint pictures. It's just something they like doing and as long as they don't run into serious problems they are all happy to just potter around doing it.

 

I've met a lot of people over the years playing golf and a lot of them don't give a fig about who won. There's a brief acknowledgement and maybe the winner gets a free drink but it's soon forgotten. The conversation might dwell on notable events during the round but soon moves onto more general topics. For most of the golfers I've met in the UK golf is mostly just a social activity and taking lessons to improve and become the best player in your clique is pointless. All it'll do is alienate your friends.

 

And there you have it. The game offers something for everyone and I would say you are in the majority. Most people don't play to get better, they play to enjoy the game, the company they are in and other things.

 

i would agree with this, but i'm not sure i've ever seen a golfer that would say they don't think they'd enjoy the game just a little more if they hit better shots or made fewer mistakes. i get that many accept their game for what it is and just want to enjoy a day on the course with friends, but these same guys can get pretty upset after a couple awful shots. i think every golfer wants to get better, its just that only some are willing to put in the work and make real changes. And often, even those willing to go to the range and work on specific changes aren't actually making the recommended changes. without a second set of eyes or video, its so easy to beat balls thinking you are making a change when in reality nothing has changed. i think it then becomes a situation where the instructor teaches, but the player doesn't get better because they aren't making or practicing the correct changes, and then they lose confidence in the instructor.

[naval2006]

I don’t know how golf is enjoyable when you play like a duffer all your rounds. I don’t find much honesty in that statement. There are however many golfers who try to improve via You Tube and miracle fixes. I do know too how good golfers become good: they get a good instructor, take lessons and practice. That’s what the guys on tv have done, or your club champion or your scratch buddy. There’s no big secret to it. Now, doing that is way harder than blaming the coach that ruined your swing or your hard luck because you can’t get a coach in your area you get along with.

 

Coaching is the name of tha game if you want to be good at golf. The rest comes after. Even your mind. No matter how much of a cold blooded SOB you can be on the course, you ain’t got game, you ain’t no player.