Swing Speed Guidance

[Medson]

3 hours ago, bk1 said:

What club is typically used to measure Swing Speed?  Im assuming you want to get a typical shot, and not when they are swinging "out of their shoes"

Driver. 

[LawGenius305]

On 4/19/2024 at 10:28 AM, ezra76 said:

Chiming in after the bump. My son is now 10 and at 72-73mph. Still has the good accuracy.

 

We are going to get a little more serious this year. He's got a great junior league coach, former D1 and minitour player and just won pga instructor of the year up here. My son had a lesson a few days ago and got a little fire under his butt. Keeping it fun but knowing he has a lot of natural talent. Coach wants him to start doing some NEPGA junior events this year to get his feet wet.

 

I've started playing him for robucks vs chores 1stroke a hole and he smoked me 3/2 then hit driver/wedge 2 putt par on 8 for an exclamation point. 😁 

 

I'm really not worried about him keeping up with swing speeds until he's hit puberty. He's playing all ladies shafts and handling ladies tees appropriately. He can strike irons better than any kid in the limited pool we've seen with 7i as 100yd. club. He hits an 18* 5w and DoD routinely into par 5's. 

If a kid misses out on the proper speed development at 10, it makes it much tougher at puberty.

[Golfquant]

related question: what is the relationship between clubhead speed (and carry) for 7i and driver?   what would be considered "elite"?

 

7i clubhead speed much less variable (esp if using numbers from a fitting) as the player is less likely to be swinging as hard as possible?

 

seems like everyone has an "all-time best" swing/ball speed with driver, and advertises that, so a bit less relevant

[mojomover]

1 hour ago, LawGenius305 said:

If a kid misses out on the proper speed development at 10, it makes it much tougher at puberty.

curious about this, is this a generally accepted principle? Does this mean that it is significantly more difficult to close the gap if you SS is below average say at age 10?

[Medson]

1 hour ago, mojomover said:

curious about this, is this a generally accepted principle? Does this mean that it is significantly more difficult to close the gap if you SS is below average say at age 10?

 

Frankly, this is something I'm hoping the newly established USGA national program will provide insight/guideline into. I understand the minimum age of the program is 13 years old. I was hoping they'd provide some roadmap to get the younger kids ready should the kids & parents want to pursue the path. 

 

Among my peers, boys' parents think speed training is a must, and nobody exactly knows how to train it. Girls' parents generally think it's lower priority to train for speed. 

[Tugu]

 

Hmmm🤔

[Golfquant]

1 hour ago, Tugu said:

 

Hmmm🤔

I assume this is total distance (not carry)

 

should Driver should be longer given iron distances?

[Tugu]

5 minutes ago, Golfquant said:

I assume this is total distance (not carry)

 

should Driver should be longer given iron distances?

No idea. Hence the hmmm...🤔

[mojomover]

47 minutes ago, Medson said:

 

Frankly, this is something I'm hoping the newly established USGA national program will provide insight/guideline into. I understand the minimum age of the program is 13 years old. I was hoping they'd provide some roadmap to get the younger kids ready should the kids & parents want to pursue the path. 

 

Among my peers, boys' parents think speed training is a must, and nobody exactly knows how to train it. Girls' parents generally think it's lower priority to train for speed. 

 

At what age do you start speed training though? Obviously 13-14 makes sense but is 10-11 too early? 

[leezer99]

7 hours ago, Golfquant said:

I assume this is total distance (not carry)

 

should Driver should be longer given iron distances?

I don't know what he's playing in the irons but driver carry should be 2x your 9 iron.

 

The driver distance could be carry. My son's carry is a bit longer than that and just a year older. (From what his coach's Trackman says anyway)

[leezer99]

6 hours ago, mojomover said:

 

At what age do you start speed training though? Obviously 13-14 makes sense but is 10-11 too early? 

 

I would guide you towards Science for Sport (https://www.scienceforsport.com/) specifically the Peak Height Velocity information and the Canadian Sports for Life (https://sportforlife.ca/) sites. The Sports for Life site has a great PDF you can download regarding Long Term Athletic Development. 

[RobS]

21 hours ago, Golfquant said:

related question: what is the relationship between clubhead speed (and carry) for 7i and driver?   what would be considered "elite"?

 

7i clubhead speed much less variable (esp if using numbers from a fitting) as the player is less likely to be swinging as hard as possible?

 

seems like everyone has an "all-time best" swing/ball speed with driver, and advertises that, so a bit less relevant

7i swing speed will be around 80% of driver swing speed.  That's average playing speed, not hitting the driver as hard as possible with no regard for where it goes.

[MB19]

9 hours ago, leezer99 said:

I don't know what he's playing in the irons but driver carry should be 2x your 9 iron.

 

The driver distance could be carry. My son's carry is a bit longer than that and just a year older. (From what his coach's Trackman says anyway)

Russell is Carew to your son’s Winfield.

[Golfquant]

10 hours ago, leezer99 said:

I don't know what he's playing in the irons but driver carry should be 2x your 9 iron.

 

The driver distance could be carry. My son's carry is a bit longer than that and just a year older. (From what his coach's Trackman says anyway)

Driver = 2x 9i - hadn't heard that; interesting rule of thumb

 

in reality, RM's distances are irrelevant...and he is only going to get (a lot) better

[RobS]

15 hours ago, mojomover said:

 

At what age do you start speed training though? Obviously 13-14 makes sense but is 10-11 too early? 

Pre-puberty, focus on motor coordination.  For long term benefits of speed training, you need the physical foundation.  At age 10-11, fast twitch muscle development is extremely inefficient.  Kids at this age will increase their speed by developing better, more efficient movement patterns.  You can achieve some temporary or short term gains with speed training at this age but for the long term, developing coordination, balance, rhythm and spacial awareness should be the focus.  This will prepare you to develop speed/power when your anaerobic system really kicks in during the early teen years.  

 

Maturing into your full speed potential takes time.  Kids who are really active...running, jumping, throwing, climbing, playing other sport, etc. will generally make rapid progress in sports and speed/power development once they hit puberty. Longer term, you also need to be wary of repetitive injury.  I play some golf with an orthopedic surgeon.  He says his core clients are young men and women athletes who 'specialized' at an early age and middle aged has beens like me who think they are still athletes.

[LawGenius305]

22 hours ago, mojomover said:

curious about this, is this a generally accepted principle? Does this mean that it is significantly more difficult to close the gap if you SS is below average say at age 10?

There was at one time a skill development chart going around for development phases of golf and when to work on things. That website no longer exists. 

 

When I mention speed development, I am not talking about Swing Speed protocols. I don't believe in the swing speed protocols like Super Speed and some of the others that are out there work for juniors. The majority of the time in young juniors and female golfers it is a strength related issue, not a "teach your brain to swing faster" issue. Increasing chest strength, jumping muscles, etc. will increase the swing speed. 

 

@RobS is 100% correct in his post. 

[JKgolfer]

The really competitive girls are absolutely training speed, and they have been doing so for several years.  The girls are getting longer and I think they are trying to get as much out of their swing early as 7 or 8.  I don't put a ton of stock in Drive, Chip and Putt, but the girl who won the 10-11 division final is a great player.  She's very long compared to her peers, and it showed - her drive would have won the boys 10-11 division.

[MB19]

2 hours ago, JKgolfer said:

The really competitive girls are absolutely training speed, and they have been doing so for several years.  The girls are getting longer and I think they are trying to get as much out of their swing early as 7 or 8.  I don't put a ton of stock in Drive, Chip and Putt, but the girl who won the 10-11 division final is a great player.  She's very long compared to her peers, and it showed - her drive would have won the boys 10-11 division.

Yes, she is a good example of how long a pre-puberty girl can hit with a massive amount of work--whether that be purely technique+repetitiions is unknown to me, but the current crop of 12-13 yo girls here in FL has maybe 4 or 5 girls who were reaching those numbers at 11.  One was a finalist a few years back.

 

The way things are trending, with so many 12 yo girls competing in and even winning AJGA events the past few years here in FL and elsewhere, girls are definitely racing towards 100 mph ss before reaching HS.  Some make it, most probably don't, but they're definitely pushing the envelope.

[TroyB123]

When everyone is quoting swing speeds, what's the generally accepted device?   I know my son is about 7-10 faster on a GC Quad vs a Trackman.

[leezer99]

4 hours ago, TroyB123 said:

When everyone is quoting swing speeds, what's the generally accepted device?   I know my son is about 7-10 faster on a GC Quad vs a Trackman.

 

GC Quad measures speed at the face and TM measures at the center of gravity.

 

I have seen differences in speed but not that drastic. 

[RobS]

13 hours ago, TroyB123 said:

When everyone is quoting swing speeds, what's the generally accepted device?   I know my son is about 7-10 faster on a GC Quad vs a Trackman.

As mentioned above, the devices measure differently.  GC is measuring just before impact and TM is measuring at full compression and GC is measuring with the camera and TM with radar.  With GC it can also vary between having 4 dots, 1 dot and no dots (dot=reflective sticker).  I personally pay little to no attention to swing speed or smash factor any launch monitor in most situations and use ball speed as the gauge for speed/power production.

[mbh922]

If anyone finds this helpful, my son had an enormous jump in swing speed / ball distance / ball speed from April 2023 (12 year old) to April 2024 (13 y/o).  He did speed sticks the year before with very limited gains.  We started weight training 2x week and just rotated between 3-4 exercises (A lot of stretching in between sets):

-   Bench - Dumbbell's

-   Medicine Ball Slams (Squat / lift above head / Slam)

-   Squats holding a dumbbell

-   Burpees

 

I'm not a trainer, i'm just letting you know what worked for him (Puberty had a significant factor too).  I actually googled Rory McIlroy workouts and took the top 3 above from him.  He also plays hockey and works on sprinting off ice.  Again, i'm just letting you know what worked for him because he had tremendous gains over the past year.  

[LawGenius305]

16 hours ago, mbh922 said:

If anyone finds this helpful, my son had an enormous jump in swing speed / ball distance / ball speed from April 2023 (12 year old) to April 2024 (13 y/o).  He did speed sticks the year before with very limited gains.  We started weight training 2x week and just rotated between 3-4 exercises (A lot of stretching in between sets):

-   Bench - Dumbbell's

-   Medicine Ball Slams (Squat / lift above head / Slam)

-   Squats holding a dumbbell

-   Burpees

 

I'm not a trainer, i'm just letting you know what worked for him (Puberty had a significant factor too).  I actually googled Rory McIlroy workouts and took the top 3 above from him.  He also plays hockey and works on sprinting off ice.  Again, i'm just letting you know what worked for him because he had tremendous gains over the past year.  

The studies show that what you are doing is the best way for juniors to gain swing speed. Chest strength and jumping muscle strength will give the biggest returns. There are no studies on speed sticks. Users of speed sticks will get an initial jump the first month and after that will flatten was my experience. Training with Olympic lifts a kid at puberty can increase swing speed 10-15 mph in a year.