New World Handicap System

[mark m]

Exceptional Score: A Score Differential which is at least 7.0 strokes better than the player’s Handicap Index at the time the round was played (see Rule 5.9 Submission of an Exceptional Score).

I live in MN and - due to the lockdown - we began our season in late this season - in late April. So it's been almost 2 months with the new WHS. So far there are at least 3 guys in our club that have an 'E' (exceptional) score in their scoring record. For the three scores (all in the 7.0 to 7.2 range) that I know of - one was scored at another public club in an invitational/open type of tournament and the other two happened in our group throw-in game. It's somewhat comical as the last one came on Sunday. This same guy had another great round on Friday which was just short of the 7.0 limit at 6.8 or 6.9. I believe he has gone from a 20.9 to 16.6. He is a very nice guy and erratic golfer. Not a bagger. Keep in mind that these two scores did not happen in a tournament situation. He has subsequently shot around 100 twice.

Anyway, the reason for this post is to ask others what they are seeing at their golf clubs? I am not sure the current formulas and other elements are up to the job. But it is early. What do you think?

Based on this limited time frame I just want to reiterate that I believe we have taken a couple of steps backward in regards to the scoring record information for golfers you are following on the the new GHIN app. The old app was much much better for peer review. One of the issues is you cannot determine the players handicap index at the time a round was played. All you can see is his current index and his low index. They should add net differential for the round played next to the score differential. They should also show rounds from the past 12 months. A list of the best differentials from the past 24 or 36 months would be helpful as well.

 

[nsxguy]

I'm not sure what you're looking for here. The WHS is the new system. For the 7.0 better than he lost 1 shot on every one of his last 20 differentials resulting in a 1 shot decrease in his HI immediately after that round. Now that more scores are added the additional stroke each differential was reduced by will "dilute" over his future rounds eventually entirely falling off his calculation once the exceptional round falls out of his last 20.

Not sure what you mean by "limited timeframe" though. Do you mean only since Jan 1 ? And only a few rounds played THIS year ? You should be able to see all of the "revisions" rounds. And you should be able to see all of his 2019 scores. I can see mine.

I don't think on the OLD GHIN you could see the differential going into a given round. I guess it would be nice to see some sort of notation of the great round but a 7 shot better diff should jump right out at you. Don't see this as a big deal.

Probably the only reason you see a "low index" is in case one bumps his head on the soft or hard cap (going upwards).

[Augster]

I have been hit with the E score as has my son. My friend Bill just avoided it today by doubling the last hole.

IMO, the new WHS works great. The only thing I don’t really like is the 7 and 10 for exceptional scores. It’s just too low. By the time the player is 7 below his index, he’s already won all the money. I’d like to see the soft cap kick in at, say, 4.7 below and the hard cap kick in at 6.6 or something. Some number with a decimal that makes doing the math on the fly a little more difficult. And the caps would kick in sooner.

For my friend today, he’s a 17.3, he doubles the last hole, trying to break 80 for the first time this year. Needed a par for 79. 79 is a 9.2 differential, so he’d be well into the soft cap. (8.1). He blows up and has a par chip. He tries to hole it and goes long. If he makes the bogey putt, that’s a differential of 10.1 and a difference of 7.2. Also under the soft cap kick in. Dejected he rams the putt past and taps in for an 81. 11 differential. 6.3 difference. No soft cap kick in.

He played well all day and took all the money. Then at the end, with no more bets and trying hard to break 80, he messes up the hole and, with his haphazard, dejected putt for 80, skillfully missed the soft cap kick in.

So tomorrow his 11.0 differential will definitely be a keeper and the best differential on his list, but he’s only going to go down 1 shot. If the soft cap were lower, kicking in around 5.0, he’d have had to take a quad or quin on the hole to avoid the soft cap.

When my soft cap kicked in, I was a 10.3 cap, nearly the worst of my life after a horrible spring, and shot even at my course for a differential of 0.8. When a “10.3” shoots even par, even though my “normal” index varies between 4.0 and 7.0 all season, I should certainly be hard cap docked. My net was 63 that day.

With CR-par as a standard adjustment every day, anytime someone’s net is, say, 68 or lower, the cap should be kicking in.

That’s how I’d make the system better. It’s too easy to miss the soft cap and too hard to hit the hard cap.

[nsxguy]

Brother, you are a very knowledgeable poster and therefore I confess I am TOTALLY confused by your post.

Granted I don't know the ROG or the Handicapping Rules as well as a fair number of guys around here but I haven't heard nor read about a soft or hard cap on a handicap GOING DOWN/IMPROVING. The only soft and hard caps I know about are on your handicap going UP, presumably to stop sandbagging. I know because i was hit with the soft cap early this year and almost got to the hard one. I have since come down a bit so the cap no longer applies.

And I don't understand at all your "By the time the player is 7 below his index, he’s already won all the money" as the exceptional score "penalty" is for that single round and the index going forward. I don't understand what an ongoing great round has to do with anything.

Also, if you feel he missed that last putt on purpose it should be reported to the Handicap Committee, especially since it's not just a .125 difference in his 'cap (single stroke in 8 best of last 20) but a FULL STROKE - since he'd have gotten to a -7 better differential and therefore all of his last 20 differentials would have been decreased by a full shot. Being he's a friend I wouldn't expect most people to "turn him in".

Can you kindly explain ?

TIA

 

[rogolf]

Is the soft cap and hard cap even related to the exceptional score, or are there wires being crossed here?

[Augster]

NVM. I’m using the vernacular wrong. Nothing to see here. :)

[Augster]

NVM. I’m using hard and soft cap incorrectly. One is 5.8, the other, exceptional score, is 5.9. Sorry for the confusion.

[davep043]

As to the ESR, I prefer it over the old USGA system for Tournament Rounds. In many cases, the T-Score reduction was applied many months after the actual scores were shot, due to a seasonal increase in the Handicap of the Player. Often those scores were totally in character based on the players scoring at the time, but looked really low when compared to a months-later handicap. And then the T-score reduction kicked in, the worse the player played, the LOWER his handicap went. It seemed unfair. The new ESR is based on your score in relation to your handicap right now. It is applied to the 20 scores in your current record, and its influence fades a bit as new (non-reduced) scores are posted. To me, its an improvement.

As for the GHIN app, you're right, you can't see a long history. But isn't peer review intended to function in a fairly timely manner? You can (and should) check that your playing partners have entered the correct score within a day or two of play. You shouldn't really need to look back 30 or 40 rounds to verify that the score from Wednesday is accurate. However, the Handicap Committee DOES have access to all of those scores, back as far as 2008 for me in Virginia,, and to the player's handicap history (going only back to Jan 1, the old handicap history was not saved.)

[nsxguy]

"As for the GHIN app, you're right, you can't see a long history"

Not so. Exactly what the app will include going forward, not sure, but presently you can see all your 2020 scores, all your 2019 scores and your "last 12 months". Just like on the desktop website.

 

[davep043]

What about for other players? I could only see their recent history. Yes, for myself I can see a lot more.

[nsxguy]

I didn't read the issue as being looking up scores for other players. Maybe I missed that part.

I remember this being mentioned around here before but for other players records only limited info shows (privacy) and only the last 20 which, I guess, is all another golfer would ever really be interested in.

If a player was truly looking for a long history of another golfer I expect he would take a request with an appropriate reason to the Committee and they would look into it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[mark m]

I was speaking about peer review - looking up the scoring records of players you "follow" using the app. You could see much more info the 2019 version. This new app puts it all on the HC - which is a big mistake IMO. Clearly not all handicap committees do a good job. Perhaps they will add it back(?)

 

[nsxguy]

I guess I'm not understanding why you would want to look further back than a guy's last 20. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[mark m]

To determine their real potential based on actual scores in the recent past. If I guy plays a lot of golf, going back 20 scores is not enough. (They would be gone in one month.)

Good Handicap Committees ask members to keep an eye on their fellow members and help them if necessary by providing information because they cannot possibly keep track of a large club on their own. The old app made it much easier for members to keep track of one another - which is exactly what you want.

[nsxguy]

So let me see if I understand this.

In late March a guy is a 7. Best differential is a 3.5

At the end of April, after playing 20 more rounds he's a 10. Or even a 12. What would you do ? What would your Committee do ?

Are you suggesting the guy would sandbag the entire month of April to give himself an advantage in a tournament in May ?