..

[clevited]

He is older too bud, I am sure that plays a role. You don't gain it all back immediately, but yes, he has gone from fast, to much slower (during his heavy unhealthy years) to now fast again. He may or may not reach what he once had. It will be interesting to see. Do you think maybe he was stronger back then than he is now? Maybe he won't get as strong from age or injury. Who knows. The point is, he was out of shape and has since lost weight and achieved much better physical fitness level. His swing speed has climbed significantly. I mentioned that he was once faster which doesn't mean anything but show that he dwindled in health and is inching his way back there.

I will go back and fourth with you and anyone gladly on this subject forever or until it is shut down. Your choice where to go from here.

[LICC]

Scott Stallings has done extensive strength and fitness training for years. He has not significantly increased distance. Indisputable.

[airjammer]

So you are basing the whole argument that he gained speed from one drive in 2019 where he nutted up and hit 120 compared to 4 years ago? Averages don’t mean nothing in comparison to one data point ??

No, I there have been good points made on both sides. From personal experience from myself, others and science to increase clubhead speed is multifaceted with potential drawbacks “accuracy, injury, etc” from doing so. Imo for most golfers lifting weights to gain swing speed is the least effective way of potentially doing so.

[crapula]

What is significant? 10%?

 

[clevited]

I am certainly not basing my argument on 1 data point and you know that. It is one interesting data point among many that when you put all of the pieces together it certainly supports the idea that fitness helped him significantly.

 

I agree that club head speed and therefore distance is multifaceted. 100% agree. The potential that can be gained from strength training/fitness alone is substantial, but can also be complicated yes. Yes you can indeed lose accuracy and consistency from going for speed. I agree 100% with that too. If you already have a great swing, you are a good candidate to go after purposeful strength training to increase your swing speed and distance and be able to control it. If you don't have a great swing, it isn't going to help you control it and it may make you shorter until you are able to iron out the flaws in your swing. Even then, you might be in the crap more often.

 

I have posted this before but if you are just an average golfer, especially if a high handicapper, learn a good swing first if possible and then go after speed if you want or need it. Definitely more gains to be had distance wise by fixing yours wing and contact first, but you can definitely pursue both at the same time if you want. Just go about it intelligently and stick to it.

[clevited]

10% of 275 yards would be 27.5 yards and you end up improving to 302.5 yards off the tee. That is REALLY significant. Imo, the threshold for significant is much lower than that. For me, ~10 yards or more is very significant because it equates to roughly one club difference or better on your second shot. So in this particular scenario, ~3.75% or more is significant to me.

[airjammer]

Significant to me personally is can I reach a par 5 I couldn’t before. So 1mph Clubhead say gets me 2 yards with a driver and 1.5 with 3 wood so 3.5 yards won’t really help much.

Now Phil’s 5 mph is significant, 10 off the driver and 8 off of the 3 wood increases the odds of reaching a par 5.

now if someone wants to argue 1mph gain on the pga is significant on the course of a season maybe so but it so small it’s impossible to narrow down exactly what contributed to the gain. Really, a inch higher hand at the top could net you more than that.

[Rosco1216]

being the least effective is pretty accurate. Certainly for amateurs who don’t have their swing mechanics and output for their strength maxed out. Pros and long drive guys on the other hand can certainly increase speed potential with strength training. But the point of the topic isn’t what is the most effective way to gain speed, it’s can strength training increase speed, and the answer is yes.

 

Also, please stop using Scott Stallings as an example. He’s not. We can use myself as an example though if you’d like to attempt to embarrass me. Just note that if this forum had a stat similar to “total driving” but instead of a combination of distance and accuracy it was a combination of speed and total strength, I’m probably near the top. And I’m 37. And I’m easily 10-12mph faster with club speed than I was in my fittest athletic prime in my mid 20’s. The only difference is my squat and deadlift totals have increased 25-35%.

[airjammer]

Congratulations on being a statical anomaly. I thought we were discussing 99% of people not the 1% “Rosco”.

[Krt22]

lol, please don't tell me you are really this obtuse. You guys are fine focusing on a single player that you think proves your point, but when someone else counters with first hand data proving you otherwise, you immediately default to "just a statistical anomaly". You can't have it both ways man.

[clevited]

He is proof of what can happen with dedication and hard work. Something many aren't willing to commit to and therefore wouldn't understand imo.

[clevited]

Wow, flags galore with these guys. Some people are way too easily hurt on here and should probably work on their skin thickness and insecurities.

[GoGoErky]

I’m offended by the use of flags on others ?

[Krt22]

lol, I noticed that as well. Haters gonna hate.

[crapula]

If tiger, Rory, etc stopped strength training would they lose distance?

[clevited]

Eventually I think yes. Age would catch up with them more quickly imo.

[clevited]

I hope admins are getting reports of these high maintenance people that flag everyone and everything.

[crapula]

If age reduces distance faster than strength then how can anyone increase distance with strength?

[Rosco1216]

I am simply a first hand contradiction to what you’re refusing to acknowledge is capable because of one individual on the PGA tour.

Am I a statistical anomaly? Sure. But what makes me an anomaly? I was a “good” golfer growing up. I was a multisport athlete. I was strong and fit and worked out regularly from an early age. My club head speed was fast, not super anomaly fast, about 118, when I was considered in my prime and was “plenty strong”. What makes me a statistically anomaly is that I’ve busted my ass, way more than the average gym guy let alone avid golfer. I’m much stronger in deadlifts and squats at 37 and much faster club speed into the low 130’s. Coincidence? Or just anomaly?

[crapula]

Swing speed in the low 130's? Holy crap!

[clevited]

If you are at the absolute peak of your strength and fitness, and suddenly stop your routine to maintain that, you will eventually lose strengh and speed due to disuse and also age. If you are older and never really worked at strength training but suddenly start, you would absolutely see gains and sort of roll back the clock to when you were younger and stronger. If you never worked out your entire life, but started at an older age, you might become stronger than you ever were and therefore potentially hit it further than you ever did.

 

I never said age reduces distance faster than adding strength could btw, that isn't what I meant by what I said. I was trying to say that weight training/fitness can delay the fading of your speed as you get older. If you suddenly stop it, you would stop that delay and the negative effects of age on your strength and speed would accelerate imo.

[LICC]

It’s not one individual. It’s the entire Tour, the Champions Tour and the LPGA. You can’t cite one player who increased distance significantly by strength training.

[Rosco1216]

FUN FACT: Lifting heavy and adding/maintaining strength as we get older slows the effects of aging. You’re welcome.

[clevited]

Lol, either @LICC has blocked me, or wrx has blocked his posts from view. I get emails that he is commenting yet I see no comments. Its a shame really, I was looking forward to seeing his deep insights.

[Rosco1216]

He’s commenting!? Dang it I can’t see them either.

[clevited]

Yep, I started following this thread today. He has posted or tried to post at least twice and I see nothing. Probably for the best lol.

[clevited]

@Rosco1216 swing is in low 130s huh, wonder what I can get my out of shape butt to if I start lifting. Hmmmmm. You sir are inspirational, time to beg my wife for some free time to hit the gym.

[airjammer]

So 1 dude on the Internet who was naturally fast, strong and been playing since childhood and continues to play...gains 10 mph over years..no surprise. You can say that about most LD guys. Kyle Berkshire did the sane thing and didn’t even lift from what I can tell. I’m pretty sure Tiger out worked you in his prime and didn’t gain much if anything so what does that mean? To me it means you have different make of muscles fibers than most pga tour players. Have you seen Tiger’s calves obviously he was never going to dunk with those. What about Greg Norman he’s probably more fit than ever..he ain’t swinging 120 right now probably not even 110.

Many years ago one of my very goods friends and I lifted weights together for a period of time. We were very structured in amount of sets, reps, and percentage of 1rm. I lost speed and he gained speed. He’s a big Italian and I’m the opposite but I always was about 20 yards longer. He no longer plays but he never stopped lifting..my almost 4 year old daughter calls him Gecko from pj masks because of super gecko muscles?

Years ago a member I think his name was “I drive 400” or something to that effect suggested than people should swing these 4lb weighted bars to get faster. It didn’t do crap for me..I still have that bar

I obviously don’t know the science behind why some people can gain clubhead speed by increasing “gym” strength and some cannot and I don’t think anyone does quite yet

Just a coincidence my best friend just took his first lesson for a guy that has several tour players in the stable..gained 10mph (83-93) in clubhead speed today with a 7 iron today and he’s 51 and weighs less than 150lbs.

[Rosco1216]

No surprise? I thought I was a statistical anomaly? But it’s not surprise a naturally fast and strong guy get considerably stronger and faster into his Late 30’s?

 

Look man, of course everyone is different. And there are levels to what people are capable of. But it’s a fact that increased strength, especially in squats at deadlifts, increased neuromuscular efficiency in dynamic lifts, especially when in the posterior chain, will increase ones top end speed.

 

[stingerfade]

Kyle Berkshire didn’t lift and got faster? I think you missed that video or I’m misreading because that’s exactly what he said he did to get his swing speed to where it is.