Anudder week anudder PGA Tour rules question

[antip]

The PGA Tour seems to be increasingly downgrading the resources applied to rules observation in tournaments, as though the paying public (sponsors/subscribers) have no to little interest in this. It's getting beyond the odd thing slipping through cracks.

[davep043]

I didn't see this, but I wonder if its possible that the drops landed just inside the red line, in the General Area, and that the ball was placed just inside the line. If that's the area with the best grass, and if it was likely that the ball would bounce into the Penalty Area when dropped, its a reasonable tactic to drop as close as possible to the line, within the rules, drop twice and have each ball roll into the PA (by definition, outside of the Relief Area), and then place it. The line itself is in the PA, and ball is in the PA if it is touching the line, so the ball would have to land completely off the line to be an acceptable drop. Again, I didn't see it, but having seen a lot of camera angles, its possible these were legal drops, even if they didn't look quite right on the TV.

[QEight]

Now I cranked up the volume and could hear some of the conversation "across the line twice" and "has to hit above the line correct". So I guess they were trying to do as you said. But the two tries that were shown were not very good ones... I guess they finally managed. Contrary my first comment, it seemed like the caddie was actually the one who knew the rules!

Here are the screenshots from the two shown drops just when the ball is striking the ground and the final strike at the start of the backswing. But they must have taken couple of inbounds drops which were not shown on the broadcast.

[Sawgrass]

It's possible that in the top picture above, which I presume is the final position of the ball, shows an illegal position in which the ball may not literally touch the red line, but nevertheless its edge hovers over the line (making it illegal) and perhaps the player/caddie were ignorant about the line extending upward.

(How's that for a next-to-uselessness contribution from me?)

[antip]

(How's that for a next-to-uselessness contribution from me?)

(Very possibly nevertheless correct.)

[nsxguy]

Yup. Sure seemed like the caddie was giving the directions although I didn't crank up the volume. I went back on my Tivo about 20 minutes later to re-do the drops in slo-mo but I was too late. Apparently my Tivo for live TV only goes back so far.

The ball is clearly on the red line when he finally hits the shot however I have no idea how it got there. TV didn't cover it. What I'm thinking is, having dropped the ball twice (hitting ON the red line) and the ball ending up in the PA they then PLACED the ball on the redline. Just my best guess.

Does anyone wonder why the pros call over an official (almost) every time they want to do anything ? LOL

[Sawgrass]

I just realized that it’s also possible that the ball was dropped twice outside the edge, after which it bounced in, and was then placed properly just outside the edge, then after having come to rest moved due to natural forces and then came to rest in the (legal under this scenario) photographed position inside the PA.

 

I seem to recall a time or two (or ten) when refs say, “You really must be there to make the right call.” Wonder why that is . . .

[SNIPERBBB]

Any chance it rolled over onto the line after it was determined to be at rest? I missed the drop part of the coverage.

[QEight]

Only those two drops on the line was covered. No other drops nor possible placing nor any explanation. I am not saying anything iffy was there, but it looked strange. But I guess we missed the critical part.

[nsxguy]

 

OK, the ball must be dropped in the relief area.

The relief area is "only in certain defined areas of the course, such as only in the general area, or not in a bunker or a penalty area"

BOTH drops hit the red PA line. It is NOT (totally) clear, "camera angles" and all that whether a small part of the ball touched the relief area.

Valid drops ?

 

Now from where he ultimately hit his next shot. Ball is clearly on the red PA line. I would say, camera angle of not, at least a part of the ball is touching the relief/general area. Whether the ball was dropped (again) OR placed there,,,,,,,,,,

Valid spot to hit from ?

[Sawgrass]

You’re of course correct that a valid drop from a penalty area must not first strike the course within that penalty area. Nor can a valid drop bounce out of the relief area and come to rest in that nearby penalty area.

I’ve just been musing as to how this might legally have come to pass, though I suspect it was simply player error and an illegal drop.

[antip]

The footage I've seen of the actual stroke could not be clearer. He played from the red line. The red line is wrong place, general penalty, not serious breach.

[rogolf]

I watched the recording today to check - imo, the second drop appeared to hit the line so wasn't a legitimate drop. He then placed the ball where he thought it hit the ground (I can't argue as I wasn't there) and then played. From the camera angle it certainly looked like it was touching the red line although the divot hole suggests it might have been just barely outside the line. Too close for me to call definitively from the TV coverage. On my recording, the drops happened during a "playing through" episode where the picture is only about one third of the screen and there was no sound from the coverage, only the commercials.

I know when I saw it the first time, I thought his ball was touching the red line.

[sui generis]

That's what I saw.

[QEight]

But in "playing through" there was a long break after showing the two drops and then showing the actual hit. So there could have been additional and correct drops. Good thing to watch these overseas via GolfTV is that we get to hear the audio and the screen is full screen during the "playing through". No commercials. And you could hear the caddie explaining that it has to hit above the line and bounce into PA. That is why they wanted to drop very close of course, but Werenski was very bad in dropping...

[antip]

Make your own mind up.

[QEight]

Same as on my capture above:

[nsxguy]

 

You are correct. It was during "Playing through" that we here saw the 2 drops, both of which hit the red line. Then a fair time before we saw the shot with the ball laying on the red line.

So you see the "playing through" portion full screen,,,,,,,,,,, but do you see any more coverage than we here in the U.S. ? I wouldn't think so.

Any idea if there were more drops ?

I guess though, if there are production people watching the broadcast (that's supposedly how they caught Bryson last week), how on earth wasn't this reviewed/revealed ? Or was it and there actually were 1 or 2 valid drops and the placement was considered OK ? So "we" didn't hear anything about it ?

 

[QEight]

We do see more shots I think, as there are cases where during commercial we see shots which after the commercial are re-played "as we were away this happened". Not all of them are of course re-played, but hole-outs etc. There is even an (slightly boring/bored) announcer during these breaks.