Monte's new No Turn - Cast

[games]

13 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Post a swing 🙂

Yup.  7 posts into this thread, throwing shade.  Clearly a Clement / wild thing fan.

[Rdailey9108]

11 hours ago, glk said:

 

 

 

 

I've tried the Dana method and my hands get all wonky. My hands disconnect and my club head gets in a horrible position.

[1Ante]

3 hours ago, games said:

Yup.  7 posts into this thread, throwing shade.  Clearly a Clement / wild thing fan.

Whats that suppose to mean?

 

Not sure the comment is for me or Mr. games, but I looked at Clement quite a bit way back but my ears started falling of watching. Even if Montes swing idea is quite a change to work on he’s videos are short, few, and straight to the point. Just what I need. 
 

I would love to get you good folks review on my swing and will try to post one. Thks. 

[TheDeanAbides]

2 hours ago, 1Ante said:

Whats that suppose to mean?

 

Not sure the comment is for me or Mr. games, but I looked at Clement quite a bit way back but my ears started falling of watching. Even if Montes swing idea is quite a change to work on he’s videos are short, few, and straight to the point. Just what I need. 
 

I would love to get you good folks review on my swing and will try to post one. Thks. 

I didn’t take it as throwing shade at all. Will wait to see your swing and help if we can. 👍🏻

[Seaweed]

I've started doing this in the last week or so with 5 range sessions into it.  Little background, I just am picking golf back up after about 3 years off.  When I quit I was around an 8-9.  I'm LH have always had a draw/hook.  Since coming back it's been a straight push or a complete duck hook.  My issue when I played before was always swaying back, so I kind of was incidentally started doing no turn as that was the only way I could stay over the ball.  So the swing motion of no turn, is fairly natural going to this method.  I've noticed my wrist was flexed in and that's been the biggest challenge, when I get it right the consistency and outcome is really good.  My other issue has been coming to far inside, I could never figure out how to make a slight change, more upright, without getting to far outside/in.  This has absolutely nailed it for me with the flat wrist and the 7-8 (5-4 for me) position, I didn't use to go from the 7-8 but understanding that with body turn now, being fatter, weaker than I was when I played before, my driver and 3W has picked up  so far 5-10 more yards.  It's crazy to think the changes I've tried to make in the past, but never could get in the 7-8 position, I think I would either go to 6 or 9, until I figured out one point to just hit the draw(probably more hook then draw, but was consistent).  I have really only focused on these parts and the results have been the prettiest baby draw consistent shots I've probably had for multiple range sessions in a row.  I've done some 20-30 yards shots, and also realized the same exact thing, my wrist was flexed in, doing no turn and flat wrist alone has been the best contact I've made chipping and that's always been the strongest part of my game.

 

My question is, is the normal miss on the toe at all?  I feel like maybe he said in the videos what the miss was and I forgot and haven't came across it again.  That's been a very consistent miss for me, but even there great ball flight and direction.  I guess my other miss when I do is thin, in my mind these correlate to each other, and I'm assuming maybe that's probably more not as much focusing on the cast yet.  I'm doing some of cast 1 or trying to incorporate, but once again I think that's more of a natural move for me, I'm assuming cast b and getting to 12 could be the cause of my consistent misses?  I will say the contact with the ball is a different then I have felt before, I don't have a lot of turf interaction it's more of a pick for me.  A lot of my good shots feel almost a hair thin, but the ball flight and distance is like I really compressed it.  Naturally I'm not one to take a lot of divots, as it used to be a problem getting way to steep, as a result several risk injuries so mentally don't think my body lets me do it.

 

Thanks for any insight.

[vandyfan]

28 minutes ago, Seaweed said:

My question is, is the normal miss on the toe at all?  I

 

Don't want to speak for Monte but I recall on his Q&A this was discussed. He said the normal miss is out on the toe and part of the reason could be due to anti-shank move some people made with their previous over the top move. Now if you protect against that shank it moves the ball out to the toe instead of in the center. For me, especially with middle irons, my miss has been toe side. I think fats and thins come from learning a new movement pattern as well, I have always had those when making any kind of swing change. 

 

Also, a swing update as I continue to grind, I am a long way off but my path is getting better at least:

 

 

Edited September 16, 2022 by vandyfan

[Seaweed]

Thanks for that.  Would make sense, I historically never had a "shank" but I did come in with the clubface wide open, and always thought it was a shank....so I'm sure I still carry some of that tendency.  In the end, of course want the middle of the club face, but the toe shots I was hitting were still a good improvement where I was so I'll take them.  Oddly enough, I did go down to a 5I and started hitting middle, went back to 8I and found the middle, so I obviously did something different, but not going to pretend to know what.

[ericschlukebir]

I purchased the videos last weekend, have  been struggling with timing, especially my driver, and am hoping this will help.  Spent some time watching and practicing some in the yard.   Went out today to play for the first time, and it was rough.  Pretty sure it was my worst ball striking round of the year.  I was pulling 3 out of every 4 shots hard right (I'm left handed).  And not just a little right, on a par 3 17, I was so far right I had to hit a flop shot over a tree.  I'm pretty sure it's the only time I've had to fix a ball mark from a second shot into a par 3.   

 

Overall, my score was pretty similar to what it has been (85) but today was an adventure.   Time to practice some more.  

 

ETA- just to be clear, in case I wasn't, this isn't a criticism of the videos.   think the videos are really good.  I just didn't get it all figured out in 4 days.

Edited September 16, 2022 by ericschlukebir

[TheDeanAbides]

12 hours ago, vandyfan said:

 

Don't want to speak for Monte but I recall on his Q&A this was discussed. He said the normal miss is out on the toe and part of the reason could be due to anti-shank move some people made with their previous over the top move. Now if you protect against that shank it moves the ball out to the toe instead of in the center. For me, especially with middle irons, my miss has been toe side. I think fats and thins come from learning a new movement pattern as well, I have always had those when making any kind of swing change. 

 

Also, a swing update as I continue to grind, I am a long way off but my path is getting better at least:

 

 

This is much better. Try to stay a bit more closed with your torso in the  downswing as you’re fighting getting stuck. Justin Rose drills are what you need. You could also use a bit more hip freedom going back. 

[TheDeanAbides]

9 hours ago, ericschlukebir said:

I purchased the videos last weekend, have  been struggling with timing, especially my driver, and am hoping this will help.  Spent some time watching and practicing some in the yard.   Went out today to play for the first time, and it was rough.  Pretty sure it was my worst ball striking round of the year.  I was pulling 3 out of every 4 shots hard right (I'm left handed).  And not just a little right, on a par 3 17, I was so far right I had to hit a flop shot over a tree.  I'm pretty sure it's the only time I've had to fix a ball mark from a second shot into a par 3.   

 

Overall, my score was pretty similar to what it has been (85) but today was an adventure.   Time to practice some more.  

 

ETA- just to be clear, in case I wasn't, this isn't a criticism of the videos.   think the videos are really good.  I just didn't get it all figured out in 4 days.

Honestly, even trying to hit driver so early on is a recipe for bad play at best. 
 

It’s impossible to make actual changes at full speed. The way to integrate these moves is with lots of small swings, mirror work and slow motion moves. And it’ll take months. 

[ericschlukebir]

12 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Honestly, even trying to hit driver so early on is a recipe for bad play at best. 
 

It’s impossible to make actual changes at full speed. The way to integrate these moves is with lots of small swings, mirror work and slow motion moves. And it’ll take months. 

I don't doubt any of that.   But it's also hard to go out and play and not hit driver.  Maybe I'd have been better to wait until winter, but what fun would that be?  

 

I think since I've been working/ concentrating on the first part, and thinking about the cast to 8(4), its slowing that part of my swing down, and I'm even further out of sync.  

[flyingwedges2]

25 minutes ago, ericschlukebir said:

I don't doubt any of that.   But it's also hard to go out and play and not hit driver.  Maybe I'd have been better to wait until winter, but what fun would that be?  

 

I think since I've been working/ concentrating on the first part, and thinking about the cast to 8(4), its slowing that part of my swing down, and I'm even further out of sync.  

all changes start with a wedge, without a ball, inside, with a mirror

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, ericschlukebir said:

I don't doubt any of that.   But it's also hard to go out and play and not hit driver.  Maybe I'd have been better to wait until winter, but what fun would that be?  

 

I think since I've been working/ concentrating on the first part, and thinking about the cast to 8(4), its slowing that part of my swing down, and I'm even further out of sync.  

Don’t try and take this to the course at all. You’re just going to get disheartened and give up. Just go out and play and work on it at home with a mirror and slow motion stuff. 
 

Honestly, until you’re sure that you can get into a decent backswing position at P3 and P4 there’s not much point adding the casts. 
 

Post up a swing. 🙂

[Hilts1969]

4 hours ago, ericschlukebir said:

I don't doubt any of that.   But it's also hard to go out and play and not hit driver.  Maybe I'd have been better to wait until winter, but what fun would that be?  

 

I think since I've been working/ concentrating on the first part, and thinking about the cast to 8(4), its slowing that part of my swing down, and I'm even further out of sync.  

 

No harm taking it to the course if the mindset is correct, just don't try and hit it hard and be very diligent with your practice swing.

[ericschlukebir]

4 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Don’t try and take this to the course at all. You’re just going to get disheartened and give up. Just go out and play and work on it at home with a mirror and slow motion stuff. 
 

Honestly, until you’re sure that you can get into a decent backswing position at P3 and P4 there’s not much point adding the casts. 
 

Post up a swing. 🙂

I don't really know how to do that either.   I don't play often enough to have any expectations, and I don't play even mildly competitive rounds either, so it doesn't bother me to have a bad day.   They all feel like practice rounds, so its just a chance to get more swings in and feel what feels good and what feels worse.  

 

I'll try and get a swing video posted next week.  

[berndgeurts]

Been an avid NTC follower since two years. 

Was finding myself going down the rabbit hole of feelings and falling back to old habits.

Went back to the basics and purposefully did cast A and B. Changed my feels and reals for the better. Shows it takes months to ingrain new movements. 

It is very good to watch the NTC videos again to see where you go wrong. The videos are set up in a very easy chronological order. Can't skip 1 before moving on.

[TheDeanAbides]

8 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

No harm taking it to the course if the mindset is correct, just don't try and hit it hard and be very diligent with your practice swing.

What benefits do you see in taking this to the course a week after knowing about it? How could he even have the basic idea even vaguely correct? 

[TheDeanAbides]

6 hours ago, ericschlukebir said:

I don't really know how to do that either.   I don't play often enough to have any expectations, and I don't play even mildly competitive rounds either, so it doesn't bother me to have a bad day.   They all feel like practice rounds, so its just a chance to get more swings in and feel what feels good and what feels worse.  

 

I'll try and get a swing video posted next week.  

How often do you play? How much time do you have to practice? 

[k4y]

Does anyone else incorporate some of the "use the bounce" feels, like keep the right arm going as you throw (on the second cast), in the full NTC swing?

Edited September 18, 2022 by k4y

[Hilts1969]

23 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

What benefits do you see in taking this to the course a week after knowing about it? How could he even have the basic idea even vaguely correct? 

 

The benefit is quite simple make a swing in a new pattern step forward make a swing with old pattern step back. Why would someone go out on the course for 18 holes to make backward steps?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Hilts1969

[gvibes]

On 9/17/2022 at 1:39 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

Honestly, even trying to hit driver so early on is a recipe for bad play at best. 
 

It’s impossible to make actual changes at full speed. The way to integrate these moves is with lots of small swings, mirror work and slow motion moves. And it’ll take months. 

I am picking up golf after a long hiatus, and this video actually did help me pretty much immediately!

 

Before I pseudo-quit a decade ago, I was maybe a 14 but my ball striking was worse than that, just had a pretty good scramble game.

 

I decided to build a simulator in my garage, and for the first week I was just hitting the ball horrible and wondering why I did this.

 

My swing is ugly, it's basically a quarter swing, I pull back way under plane, but unlike a lot of folks, my swing is so short it just stays under plane and I have a big outside in swing path.  So all pushes and hooks.  The only "slices" I ever hit are push fades where my club is even more open than my swing path.

 

I watched the video, and although I can't really integrate the cast piece at all, the 7-8 movement is already helping keeping close to plane, and when I actually remember to squat on the left side, it goes pretty straight and contact is pretty good.

 

e: lol first post since 2010.  It checks out.

Edited September 19, 2022 by gvibes

[TheDeanAbides]

9 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

The benefit is quite simple make a swing in a new pattern step forward make a swing with old pattern step back. Why would someone go out on the course for 18 holes to make backward steps?

 

 

 

 

I don’t think you get my point, buddy. He’s a week in and has no idea if he’s doing it correctly (he almost definitely isn’t). What does he gain? 

[TheDeanAbides]

4 hours ago, gvibes said:

I am picking up golf after a long hiatus, and this video actually did help me pretty much immediately!

 

Before I pseudo-quit a decade ago, I was maybe a 14 but my ball striking was worse than that, just had a pretty good scramble game.

 

I decided to build a simulator in my garage, and for the first week I was just hitting the ball horrible and wondering why I did this.

 

My swing is ugly, it's basically a quarter swing, I pull back way under plane, but unlike a lot of folks, my swing is so short it just stays under plane and I have a big outside in swing path.  So all pushes and hooks.  The only "slices" I ever hit are push fades where my club is even more open than my swing path.

 

I watched the video, and although I can't really integrate the cast piece at all, the 7-8 movement is already helping keeping close to plane, and when I actually remember to squat on the left side, it goes pretty straight and contact is pretty good.

 

e: lol first post since 2010.  It checks out.

I’m glad that you hit some decent shots, but this is a perfect example of the problem with golf and why people don’t improve.
 

Your swing is already compensation on top of compensation and now you’ve added another, so let’s see how this band aid works in a month. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by TheDeanAbides

[Hilts1969]

7 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I don’t think you get my point, buddy. He’s a week in and has no idea if he’s doing it correctly (he almost definitely isn’t). What does he gain? 

 

Flip that around what does he gain by not doing it? He just swings in his normal way which he is trying to change. 

 

Imagine you have a golfer who sucks the club way inside and tries to hold lag. He watches the NTC video and decides right I’m gonna try putting my left arm to 7 and throw my wrist angles. He may practice a bit at home, may go to the range and then at the weekend he has a game of golf. Every shot every practice shot and also while he is hanging round he goes to 7 and throws his wrists angles. That’s a lot of reps.

 

He accepts the process takes time but also is wise enough that the more he does the new movement and the less he does his old one the quicker he will get there. 

 

I take part of it to the course every time I play the game.  Nearly every golfer I know thinks of something while they swing you may as well think of what you are trying to achieve rather than something that has led to a poor golf swing all your life.

[TheDeanAbides]

40 minutes ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

Flip that around what does he gain by not doing it? He just swings in his normal way which he is trying to change. 

 

Imagine you have a golfer who sucks the club way inside and tries to hold lag. He watches the NTC video and decides right I’m gonna try putting my left arm to 7 and throw my wrist angles. He may practice a bit at home, may go to the range and then at the weekend he has a game of golf. Every shot every practice shot and also while he is hanging round he goes to 7 and throws his wrists angles. That’s a lot of reps.

 

He accepts the process takes time but also is wise enough that the more he does the new movement and the less he does his old one the quicker he will get there. 

 

I take part of it to the course every time I play the game.  Nearly every golfer I know thinks of something while they swing you may as well think of what you are trying to achieve rather than something that has led to a poor golf swing all your life.

The point, again as I seem to have to labour, is that he doesn’t know if he’s doing it correctly. 1000 reps, on or off the course, of the wrong movement achieves nothing. 
 

That’s why I said to post a swing so we can help him get the movements correct - you know as well as anyone that they’re not intuitive. 

[Hilts1969]

12 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

The point, again as I seem to have to labour, is that he doesn’t know if he’s doing it correctly. 1000 reps, on or off the course, of the wrong movement achieves nothing. 
 

That’s why I said to post a swing so we can help him get the movements correct - you know as well as anyone that they’re not intuitive. 

 

Don’t want a circular argument fella, if he’s sucking it inside putting his arm to 7 is no bad thing, cast A is difficult keeping left tilt is difficult. Arm to 7 on backswing then 8 doesn’t need weeks of detailed analysis. Even if he is not going to 7 but less inside it’s a start. Why anyone would want him to just carry on sucking it inside on the course is an illogical mystery to me. There is no benefit for him doing so. On his practice swings he can even look to see if he’s doing it, or get his playing partners to check. let it bleed in. 

[TheDeanAbides]

2 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

Don’t want a circular argument fella, if he’s sucking it inside putting his arm to 7 is no bad thing, cast A is difficult keeping left tilt is difficult. Arm to 7 on backswing then 8 doesn’t need weeks of detailed analysis. Even if he is not going to 7 but less inside it’s a start. Why anyone would want him to just carry on sucking it inside on the course is an illogical mystery to me. There is no benefit for him doing so. On his practice swings he can even look to see if he’s doing it, or get his playing partners to check. let it bleed in. 

That’s fair enough. 👍🏻

[Duffer Mark]

If someone has Monte's NTC and is working through it but is also considering another of his series between BroomForce and The Efficient Swing, which would you suggest?

[ericschlukebir]

 

 

Here's the swings.  I try and get out and play once a week, but I don't always make it.  I pretty much work from home, so practice usually looks like somewhere between 50 and 100 balls broken up over the course of a day.

 

 

IMG_5955.mov
IMG_5956.mov  

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by ericschlukebir

[ThePaineTrain]

4 hours ago, Duffer Mark said:

If someone has Monte's NTC and is working through it but is also considering another of his series between BroomForce and The Efficient Swing, which would you suggest?

 

I haven't checked out the Efficient Swing, but BROOMFORCE has a lot of drills that complement the theory behind NTC.