Monte's new No Turn - Cast

[vandyfan]

At the risk of mixing coaches and ideology, I have been using this drill from AMG along with the NTC and it seems to work well to keep my hands from tipping the shaft:

 

 

Are there any potential downfalls with this other than the fact it doesn’t really educate your right hand?

[RoyalTroon]

36 minutes ago, vandyfan said:

Are there any potential downfalls with this other than the fact it doesn’t really educate your right hand?

 

Doesn't have much to do with hand education, it's generally an elbow-arm issue related to fault in sequence.    The right hand is dumb, let it remain dumb.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Acooke2434]

On 12/22/2022 at 7:29 PM, rchang72 said:

Working on trying to get arms down sooner. Still way steep on driver. Any suggestions?

 

 

FullSizeRender.MOV 30.49 MB · 10 downloads  

 

Looks to me like the shoulders spin out a bit early plus the lead wrist is actually cupping as your downswing progresses.  Transition + Cast A over and over again, just like I'm struggling through!

[Acooke2434]

Two things I wanted to personally check in on as I continue working through this.  The Cast A drill (which segues into Cast B)... I was wondering if anyone else has trouble kind of pulling the club back over the top when they're firing to the ball after the Cast A pause.  I was wondering if it's a huge issue (I even noticed Monte did it a little bit in his video demo) or should I just keep focusing on the bowing + ulnar deviation that I am getting.

 

Also, I feel like at impact I need to be casting towards like 10 o clock instead of 12 to avoid a pull hook and see a fade/straight ball.  Yes I know, ball flight shouldn't matter during a drill.  But I also know Monte doesn't like the whole "swing to right field" cliche so I was wondering if I'm overdoing a good thing. 

 

This single video kind of encapsulates both points... appreciate any feedback!

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/d_08Mi9xMe4?feature=share 

[games]

A lot of posters newer to NTC here.  I've been at this for two years, and I'm really pleased with my progress.  I've gone from OTT to delivering correctly from the inside.  My 7-iron carry has gone from 140 yards to 160 yards.  Driver carry from 200 to 235 yards.  A lot of bumps along the way.  Here's what I would consider a primer to the NTC Framework.

 

1. Be sequential and methodical.  Don't try to work on Cast A and Cast B when you have flaws in setup, backswing A and backswing B, and transition.  I have never focused on Cast B except for one drill Monte gave me from Broom Force.

 

2. The overhead shots of Monte that act as transitions or "bumpers" to the individual segments within the NTC video are PURE GOLD.  This is Monte executing the drills.  Pay attention!

3.  For a lot of people, "No Turn Cast" refers to the backswing.  For me, it means don't turn back on the DOWNSWING.  I think about performing Cast A with my back to the target, and letting the resulting momentum from the ulnar deviation of the club in the proper direction and path to lead my body back toward the target.   This concept is shown in Monte's recommended watch:  The Justin Rose video (link below) which is effectively Rose performing Cast A with his back to the target.

 

 

 

[ThePaineTrain]

The Justin Rose video really got me back into shape after being in the weeds this season. Had good success in the spring with just Broomforce videos, added in the NTC videos and I think I just misunderstood Cast A which developed into an unplayable hook.

 

Watching the Justin Rose video, I noticed how close to his body his hands are in the downswing, at least compared to what I had in my mind. For me, when I'd focus on Cast A, I would end up really using my arms to get the clubhead to 8 o'clock. Dialing it back a bit to be only a wrist action combined with feeling like I'm trying to drop my hands (instead of push them to 8 ) I was able to eliminate the hook. My transition feel right now is to cast the clubhead with the wrist, shift weight onto left foot (drop the bucket) and feel like I'm trying to pull the butt end of the clubshaft into the inside of my (now flexed) left knee. Then it's just fire hard Cast B/Broom sweep through the ball.

[berndgeurts]

8 hours ago, ThePaineTrain said:

The Justin Rose video really got me back into shape after being in the weeds this season. Had good success in the spring with just Broomforce videos, added in the NTC videos and I think I just misunderstood Cast A which developed into an unplayable hook.

 

Watching the Justin Rose video, I noticed how close to his body his hands are in the downswing, at least compared to what I had in my mind. For me, when I'd focus on Cast A, I would end up really using my arms to get the clubhead to 8 o'clock. Dialing it back a bit to be only a wrist action combined with feeling like I'm trying to drop my hands (instead of push them to 8 ) I was able to eliminate the hook. My transition feel right now is to cast the clubhead with the wrist, shift weight onto left foot (drop the bucket) and feel like I'm trying to pull the butt end of the clubshaft into the inside of my (now flexed) left knee. Then it's just fire hard Cast B/Broom sweep through the ball.

This is almost exactly me. Only I started with NTC and got to Broom force after. 7cap and finally living up to my game again. Was afraid to hit driver for years, now I'm back. 

[GMN_02]

Just signed up for the NJ clinic this year, going to be hammering NTC until then.  For those that have been to Monte's clinics in the past, would you mind sharing your experience?  Thanks and Happy New Year!

[vandyfan]

 

53 minutes ago, GMN_02 said:

Just signed up for the NJ clinic this year, going to be hammering NTC until then.  For those that have been to Monte's clinics in the past, would you mind sharing your experience?  Thanks and Happy New Year!

 

Man, I am turning into one of those "use the search function" more and more each day, haha. 

 

 

[Acooke2434]

Looking for feedback... @MonteScheinblum if you could chime in i would greatly appreciate it!

 

Is it a deal breaker if I'm pointed outside the ball at left arm parallel?  This is a still from a full swing.

 

 I thought I was a candidate to skip Backswing A because I've seen the 90 degree wrist set and the flat wrist but rewatching (and this series is IMMACULATE btw!) makes me want to throw it out to verify.  Here is the top of the backswing where it's also a little laid off.  But I personally like the progress because I went from an overswinger to someone who didn't get deep enough as an overcorrection, and your Backswing B (hopefully) is getting me to solve both. 

[MonteScheinblum]

29 minutes ago, Acooke2434 said:

Looking for feedback... @MonteScheinblum if you could chime in i would greatly appreciate it!

 

Is it a deal breaker if I'm pointed outside the ball at left arm parallel?  This is a still from a full swing.

 

 I thought I was a candidate to skip Backswing A because I've seen the 90 degree wrist set and the flat wrist but rewatching (and this series is IMMACULATE btw!) makes me want to throw it out to verify.  Here is the top of the backswing where it's also a little laid off.  But I personally like the progress because I went from an overswinger to someone who didn't get deep enough as an overcorrection, and your Backswing B (hopefully) is getting me to solve both. 

 

 

 

 

 

acceptable 

[MonteScheinblum]

Just now, MonteScheinblum said:

30 minutes ago, Acooke2434 said:

Looking for feedback... @MonteScheinblum if you could chime in i would greatly appreciate it!

 

Is it a deal breaker if I'm pointed outside the ball at left arm parallel?  This is a still from a full swing.

 

 I thought I was a candidate to skip Backswing A because I've seen the 90 degree wrist set and the flat wrist but rewatching (and this series is IMMACULATE btw!) makes me want to throw it out to verify.  Here is the top of the backswing where it's also a little laid off.  But I personally like the progress because I went from an overswinger to someone who didn't get deep enough as an overcorrection, and your Backswing B (hopefully) is getting me to solve both. 

 

 

 

 

 

acceptable 

Expand  

Acceptable 

[rchang72]

Took a lesson from my local coach and he measured my hips to be 70 degrees in the backswing. And handle dragging. My drills: backswing part 1 and cast B. Feels like my legs in concrete and my left wrist totally extended at impact. In reality, hips 45 degrees and flat left wrist at impact. This is a crazy game

Edited January 10, 2023 by rchang72

[Z1ggy16]

Rediscovering this topic - realized today when hitting balls and looking at my DTL video that I was what I assumed to be over rotating, flying rear elbow a bit, across the line... I suffer from all that.

 

Tried to feel like I didn't move my torso whatsoever and only moved my arms and wrists. Resulting video showed a much better position at the top, even though it felt like I hadn't hardly moved my shoulders at all.

 

Am I doing it right?

[Rdailey9108]

6 hours ago, Z1ggy16 said:

Rediscovering this topic - realized today when hitting balls and looking at my DTL video that I was what I assumed to be over rotating, flying rear elbow a bit, across the line... I suffer from all that.

 

Tried to feel like I didn't move my torso whatsoever and only moved my arms and wrists. Resulting video showed a much better position at the top, even though it felt like I hadn't hardly moved my shoulders at all.

 

Am I doing it right?

I'd say as long as your body is still reacting correctly from the the arms being in that position you are ok. If you are losing your pivot and body rotation then you may need to reevaluate. Others smarter than me can correct me if I'm wrong but just like in the video the body reacts by the hands being in the correct place. 

[Z1ggy16]

2 hours ago, Rdailey9108 said:

I'd say as long as your body is still reacting correctly from the the arms being in that position you are ok. If you are losing your pivot and body rotation then you may need to reevaluate. Others smarter than me can correct me if I'm wrong but just like in the video the body reacts by the hands being in the correct place. 

Yeah I videoed myself after and my turn still looked fine but I was able to keep my arms more connected.

Just wanted to make sure that feel is what is still prescribed for this drill. 

[champ0216]

I just bought this and im trying to wrap my head around it. Does the pull to 7 o clock and turning to 8 o clock supposed to be happening on normal full swings or is it just a feel to get to left arm parallel and then turning correctly? and after that you are just supposed to go from address straight to 8 o clock with the left arm parallel  feel?

[champ0216]

Here is where I am on the swings trying to put this concept into play i feel like i have an early extension along with maybe not rotating correctly. But I am honestly lost on this right now

[MonteScheinblum]

Ball too far back and arms are late and you steepen the shaft first move down 

[Rdailey9108]

@MonteScheinblum said I need to work on my wrist angles as well as the some other things he told me. So I decided to practice the cast/ulnar deviating move. Does this look right?

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Rdailey9108

[Haber]

Just had my last lesson of a 5 pack with Monte and have gotten back to the NTC cast. I’ve also really taken a deep dive into the AMG guys and feel like the blender drill and arrow drill work wonders with this as well. Currently working on more trail hip depth and not adding too much hip flexion early in the swing.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Haber

[GMN_02]

There is a separate thread dedicated to the below video but this one video from AMG was the lightbulb moment for me on what the arms and wrists need to be doing for Cast A and transition.

 

 

[Trippels]

8 minutes ago, GMN_02 said:

There is a separate thread dedicated to the below video but this one video from AMG was the lightbulb moment for me on what the arms and wrists need to be doing for Cast A and transition.

 

 

To add to this, Monte confirmed the trail wrist supination they mention in this video is essentially the same thing as Cast A

[Fireballer]

For those working on the NTC, if you have the Efficient Swing videos, check out Lesson 4A and the associated drills.  Watching these videos and NTC back to back really spoke to me.  @MonteScheinblum will hopefully confirm that the lesson in Efficient Swing and cast to 8:00 are the same.

[MonteScheinblum]

25 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

For those working on the NTC, if you have the Efficient Swing videos, check out Lesson 4A and the associated drills.  Watching these videos and NTC back to back really spoke to me.  @MonteScheinblum will hopefully confirm that the lesson in Efficient Swing and cast to 8:00 are the same.

👍

[KD1]

Cautionary tale:

 

When learning NTC Cast A and just rehearsing turning down to impact as Monte demoed on the videos I always felt like I was coming in to impact very toe down. For this reason I had never really fully committed to it with my irons, I always tried to make some kind of compensation to get my hands in a different position to feel like the sole club was leveling out a little better. It never bothered me with a driver since the ball is teed up and I was told to stop taking divots 😄. I'm stronger off the tee and pretty consistently smashed my driver with NTC swing thoughts, iron approach however can be very streaky.

 

I've recently caught a case of the shanks and after about 3 1/2 buckets and some deep soul searching at the range I came to the realization that my toe down feeling was all just an OPTICAL ILLUSION!!! 🤦‍♂️ If I slowly back swing -> cast a -> turn to impact it looks and feels like I'm toe down from my POV standing over the ball, but if I just take a moment longer and tilt my head and do a little wiggle and closer inspection i can see it's nearly completely flush with the turf. It took just that realization, dropping my 'compensations', and trusting the method and I was suddenly flushing the ball.

 

Long story short it's a freaking long and bumpy road learning this stuff on my own without feedback...

Edited February 21, 2023 by KD1

[vandyfan]

On 2/21/2023 at 9:14 AM, KD1 said:

Long story short it's a freaking long and bumpy road learning this stuff on my own without feedback...

 

Very much this. I have been using NTC and Efficient Swing for the last 6 months and I fully believe in what it is teaching and I have had some very high highs with it. However, at the moment, I am absolutely LOST in about 5 different feels. Probably need to phone a friend (Monte) because I am toiling quite a bit these days. 

 

All that said, I love the concept and I am going to a Monte Clinic this summer so I am a big proponent of it. I am just not a very good student at the moment, haha. 

[Acooke2434]

Mr. Vandy, I can totally relate.  Only a NTC disciple, but I agree... it's such a simple and effective concept that I don't even want to consider future instruction until I master its principles.

 

I'll just share where I slip up and maybe it'll help you.  

 

When my shots get squirrley and the mental wheels start turning my backswing gets slower and the hands don't get pushed to 8 o clock because I want to steer the ball with a conservative swing.  I am QUICKLY and PAINFULLY learning how important that 8 o clock move is.  If I don't get the hands deep enough, it's a steep wipey toe ball even if I do successfully perform the Cast A.  And then of course much easier said than done... but I try to commit to as fast a backswing (with loose wrists) as possible.  Faster backswing = less time to think = ideally more chance to get those hands to 8 o clock with the club in a good position.  In my opinion at least.

 

I'm a 20 handicapper but right there with you my man!  Stay strong and committed! 

[vandyfan]

2 hours ago, Acooke2434 said:

it's a steep wipey toe ball even if I do successfully perform the Cast A. 

 

@Acooke2434 - um....EXACTLY. I used to have a heel miss and now almost everything is out of the toe. Even though I am a 5 HDCP (means nothing really, haha) I am so glad you chimed in and will think hard about that. In my mind, I absolutely start trying to steer it and that results in me using my legs less and less (i.e. getting less and less hip depth) which is probably meaning that I don't get my hands deep either. My issue/miss/challenge (I think) is that I spin out from the top with my shoulders and come into the ball too open which is from wiping it and hitting it out on the toe. So THANK YOU for giving me something to chew on. As mentioned in NTC, getting the hands to 8 o'clock in the backswing basically FORCES hip depth as well assuming you stay in posture etc. 

 

update: went to the range quickly and this is an improvement vs toe contact

 

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by vandyfan

[Jclenaha]

Been working NTC pretty hard

 

Grinding at keeping my back to target while getting into left side and working Cast A

 

Major problems firing left shoulder / left hip at the ball in past. 
 

worked this drill a bit as well working the feel