Monte's new No Turn - Cast

[GoGoErky]

3 hours ago, vandyfan said:

I have noticed Jake Hutt seems to be teaching the no turn cast lately. Doesn’t seem to be associated with Monte in any way. He even used a clock to describe cast A but changed the orientation points so it is cast to 4 o clock instead of 8. Interesting.

Bradley Hughes talks about entering from 4:30. As for the clock a lot of people refer to a clock. 

[vandyfan]

18 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Bradley Hughes talks about entering from 4:30. As for the clock a lot of people refer to a clock. 

 

You and @iacas are more experienced in this area and I would assume you all are correct. I should probably just be thankful that "holding the lag" is no longer en vogue and messing with amateurs learning the game. 

[PracticeSwinger]

4 hours ago, vandyfan said:

I have noticed Jake Hutt seems to be teaching the no turn cast lately. Doesn’t seem to be associated with Monte in any way. He even used a clock to describe cast A but changed the orientation points so it is cast to 4 o clock instead of 8. Interesting.

It's for guys that play twilight rather than sunrise

[MonteScheinblum]

I have no issues with Jake.  He’s a friend 

[Rdailey9108]

10 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I have no issues with Jake.  He’s a friend 

We need to keep this a secret though.I like stealing my friend's money. 

[coops]

Here's another thought - try the Cast A move while using 'split hands'. Doesn't have to be too drastically split - just move the lower hand so there's a gap is enough, for me, to get a much better or more distinct feel for that hands and wrist move in transition.

 

I tried at at the range and also hitting balls with a 'baseball' (10 finger) grip and was very, very intrigued. (Also makes CastB more distinctive).

 

(I should add I play golf right handed, but am otherwise lefty... left eye dominant, write left handed, play tennis/squash/table tennis left handed (and had a top spin backhand one handed lefty tennis shot on grass), throw left handed, kick left footed... and eat Thai with the spoon in my left hand and fork in the right (I still use a knife in my right hand and fork left hand oddly).

If my childhood had been in Canada, no doubt i'd be playing golf left handed like my Dad did... but school sports in UK for me started with field hockey rather than ice, and a lefty (reverse) swing with a hockey stick is illegal.... and so two handed sports like hockey, cricket, baseball I swing those clubs as a righty.)

 

I started golf with a baseball grip anyway for years so it's not too odd even now after switching first to interlock then overlap for probably > last 30 years (!)... but I was sufficiently pleased that today I'd intended to give a go out on the course.

I chickened out after the first tee shot... but committed to it for the last 3 holes... and...

First hole with the 10finger CastA reminder grip, I hit the 5 wood tee shot a bit pully - not too bad, didn't get that wrist action going too well, but it was the following 9 iron (short par 4) that I really hit horribly, haha.

BUT - I could really feel just how I had completely and utterly NOT done any CastA pretty much at all, and the swing was poor, yes - the result was poor but no worse than one of my regular poor swings... just huge feedback on how badly my hands had moved in transition. Hmmm.

 

And the last hole blootered a beautiful baseball gripped drive with major CastA feels (which for me is a slightly odd, nay worrying, feeling in transition at the feeling that the clubshaft is pointing in a different direction from normal... swifty followed by a feeling in rest of downswing thru impact of ease and power which of course makes up for that momentary weirdness). This drive (best of the day by far for me) was followed by (another) 9 iron of utter CastA majesty.... oooh, I was a happy bunny.

Wasn't even that upset when I missed the 8ft putt... there's only so much a LAB DF2.1 can correct for, after all 🥺

 

Anyway... thought id' throw it out there - not sure if Monte had students trying it split handed but I may well end up going back to baseball grip full time (or as a minimum for practice swing and at the range). As a lefty (swinging golf right handed), i'd tried focussing on my left hand in that transition cast A but stumbling on this split grip or 10 finger, it seems to help me feel it easily in the otherwise less dominant right hand of mine.

 

Edited June 1, 2023 by coops
adverb

[Liveonce]

Who would NTC NOT be for?

[pappaf2]

I haven’t really see it talked about but does Cast B help to “square” the clubface? In the cast B section of NTC Monte says it adds speed and helps stabilize the clubface tightening up dispersion. I know it’s not a rotational move so to speak, but will properly executing cast b help add a few degrees of closure through impact since it encourages a release and not a hold off?

I struggle with the face being open to the path. I haven’t done much work on cast B yet but I’m wondering it that could be a benefit in that regard?

Edited June 2, 2023 by pappaf2

[RoyalTroon]

2 hours ago, Liveonce said:

Who would NTC NOT be for?

 

Those not wanting to interact with angular momentum by becoming handsy. 

[berndgeurts]

7 hours ago, pappaf2 said:

I haven’t really see it talked about but does Cast B help to “square” the clubface? In the cast B section of NTC Monte says it adds speed and helps stabilize the clubface tightening up dispersion. I know it’s not a rotational move so to speak, but will properly executing cast b help add a few degrees of closure through impact since it encourages a release and not a hold off?

I struggle with the face being open to the path. I haven’t done much work on cast B yet but I’m wondering it that could be a benefit in that regard?

Yes. Cast B is al about flexion and ulnar deviation of the wrist, closing the face.

[mattwood]

16 hours ago, berndgeurts said:

Yes. Cast B is al about flexion and ulnar deviation of the wrist, closing the face.

Maybe I might be misunderstanding you, but I just watched the videos earlier today and I think cast A is about ulnar deviation and flexion.  Cast B is more about throwing the club towards 12 which isn't really closing the face as much as it is keeping it square to the path through  the left wrist going into extension.

[berndgeurts]

6 hours ago, mattwood said:

Maybe I might be misunderstanding you, but I just watched the videos earlier today and I think cast A is about ulnar deviation and flexion.  Cast B is more about throwing the club towards 12 which isn't really closing the face as much as it is keeping it square to the path through  the left wrist going into extension.

You are right. Confused B and A. 

Should get back to my alphabet skills...

[pappaf2]

Yeah cast A is ulnar and cast B is right wrist flexion. Although interestingly enough if you put your right palm up and flex it towards you it seems to naturally add some ulnar to reach its full range of motion. 

[GolfSwang]

@MonteScheinblum A small request, por favor: can you please upload the overhead video of your swing from the NTC series to your Instagram or YouTube? (Ideally without the pauses or overlays. With or without the clock). This overhead view is super helpful for visualizing both casts, and I don't think you included an unadulterated version/video of it in the series on your site. Thanks!

 

 

I have recently recommitted to thoroughly working through NTC (purchased it towards the end of last season, courses/ranges closed soon after). Already picked up a few key points on my second go-through, which I've added to my initial notes. Looking forward to working on it again...this is the way!

[pappaf2]

On 6/2/2023 at 3:03 PM, pappaf2 said:

I haven’t really see it talked about but does Cast B help to “square” the clubface? In the cast B section of NTC Monte says it adds speed and helps stabilize the clubface tightening up dispersion. I know it’s not a rotational move so to speak, but will properly executing cast b help add a few degrees of closure through impact since it encourages a release and not a hold off?

I struggle with the face being open to the path. I haven’t done much work on cast B yet but I’m wondering it that could be a benefit in that regard?

Follow up question to my cast B question. There are comments about if you perform cast A correctly the hope is cast B just happens as a result. If it doesn’t, you need to work on adding some cast B. How can you tell if you are performing cast B automatically? What are the signs you are or aren’t? Any thoughts on that @MonteScheinblum

 

 

[rondo01]

nm.

Edited June 11, 2023 by rondo01

[harveythomas]

The golf pro who taught me last year does a lot of NTC type teaching and when he first started telling we what to do I thought he was nuts.  I thought it was all like flipping from the top and seemed completely wrong as I threw the club from the top with my fingers.  But I hit it further and straighter than in a long while and my handicap index shot down.  It made me realise my swing was all body at the time with very limited hand action and it had got very weak.

Then 10 months in to working with this pro the wheels started coming off and my impact became very scoop like (lots of thins and tops as I lost dynamic loft and hit the ground behind the ball) and weight shift and rotation through impact had disappeared.  
 

Then a few weeks ago my shot making started to return after a bio mechanics guy I had my first session with got me rotating through the shot much more with a feeling of holding off the release. 
 

I watched a NTC video last week and gave it a try the last few days as it was so similar to what worked so well last year.  Disaster ensued.  
 

This evening I practiced using my old tour rotation stick with a good set and then rotate through with a much more passive set of hands.  Excellent shots followed.

 

I think I have flip flopped between extremes especially with the hands from the top.  
 

I like the NTC set the club idea especially as I have limited flexibility these days but definitely can’t make the throw the club down at 8 o’clock work at the moment like I was last year.  
 

Think I’ll stick with the bio mechanics guys ideas for now and hopefully my recent signs of life in my ball striking will continue to return.  I am guessing I got my concepts too out of balance.  
 

Really hat this game when I get lost at times.  

 

 

 

[Fireballer]

I’ve had great success the last few months with blending ideas from NTC and Lesson 4A in Efficent Swing.  They’re really the same things, just worded differently.  What I did first was ingrain these moves with lead arm parallel swings like Monte advocates for.  I was able to successfully tame arm over swing and my center-face contact has increased dramatically which has led to better dispersion.  Right now, almost immediately off the ball, I assume a “skipping a stone” feel with my trail wrist.  From the top, my only though is throwing hands away from my trail shoulder, feeling like I’m dumping ONLY VERTICAL wrist c0ck, and maintaining trail wrist flexion.  I have no thought or intent at all after about P5.  If I can keep my wrist conditions correct, everything else is a reaction. The throwing feeling with the hands away from the target satisfies the hit impulse I’ve fought for years that got me way too steep

Edited June 14, 2023 by Fireballer

[harveythomas]

I think I prefer the AMG guys description of the arms and hands dropping and straightening from the top of the swing.  Works better for me than trying to throw it down to the 8 o’clock position and I can still make it work using a tour rotation stick or pro sendr so it fits better with what seems to work with me at this point in time. 
 

 

[Timbo91]

1 hour ago, harveythomas said:

I think I prefer the AMG guys description of the arms and hands dropping and straightening from the top of the swing.  Works better for me than trying to throw it down to the 8 o’clock position and I can still make it work using a tour rotation stick or pro sendr so it fits better with what seems to work with me at this point in time. 
 

 

Would you mind linking the AMG video? This is something I’m working on with some difficulty atm

[vandyfan]

@Timbo91 - there is an entire thread on it. Go to post 1. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by vandyfan

[mantan]

I fell so backward into NTC.

 

Monte's 'Plane and Release' video pulled me out of a dark place.  I'd spent a few years chasing the idea of 'holding lag' and a pivot based release. I had the opportunity to see Monte a few times when he was in town years ago and he was great about getting me back on track with some nuggets I could go back to.  I'd bought all the content on the website. But I never got into NTC because I honestly thought it was about casting/early extension which has never been a problem.

 

Last year, I was trying to simplify my swing and fell into a drill where you start with trail wrist extension and once the grip is facing the target just let it naturally lift a TOB position.  I found it worked on the course just as well as the range.

 

I was today years old when I realized it was essentially a variation 'no turn' part of the drill. I am not a good golfer.  But the one thing I've naturally been able to do shallow the club, bring the club from inside and get to a decent impact position.  My issues were always backswing related and this simplified it.  It was right when Broom Force came out.  It immediately clicked. So much so, I sent an excited text and some Apple Cash to Monte because I was so giddy about it.

 

Then for some reason I felt like that backswing was to 'training wheels' and got back to my old backswing which is way too long and makes it a lot harder to execute what I learned in Broom Force.  I shelved the whole thing and moved back to my old swing. Which is inconsistent due to so much timing by an overly long backswing.  My driver had been a bit wild, so I had an emergency 30 min lesson with a guy at the range by the office.  Video showed my super long backswing. He felt I was close on my downswing, I just needed to swing out to right field a bit. 

 

I was kind of wary of it.  So when I got home I looked up videos from guys I trusted about that advice.  (I know, I know) But it got me to the Monte video on swinging right/left. And more importantly it suggested the Original Monte NTC video.  And that got me into the intro to the new video series. And that got me to the Rebellion Golf website and the videos that have been sitting in the library the whole time.

 

The 'no turn' take away and Cast B is the old feel I had with Broom Force.  The only difference is truly committing to extension in the lead wrist which for me occurs at the beginning of the swing.  Almost me ‘unlocking’ after years of trying to hold angles. WAY too early, but 2 hours at the range today in ridiculous heat was very encouraging.

 

It was also full circle going back to the main concept of the 'Plane and Release' video.  Extension of the lead wrist is right there in the movement.  Yet I was still hanging on to the misguided concept that a flat left wrist at impact carried through the backswing and anything less was a flip.

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by mantan

[Doodlebug87]

As always reverting back to this after not committing enough.... Am I making the right movements here in the drill (NTC and Broomforce) and the resulting normal swing with the feel? Partial 52 wedge for what it's worth. 

[mantan]

On 6/25/2023 at 9:43 PM, mantan said:

I fell so backward into NTC.

 

Monte's 'Plane and Release' video pulled me out of a dark place.  I'd spent a few years chasing the idea of 'holding lag' and a pivot based release. I had the opportunity to see Monte a few times when he was in town years ago and he was great about getting me back on track with some nuggets I could go back to.  I'd bought all the content on the website. But I never got into NTC because I honestly thought it was about casting/early extension which has never been a problem.

 

Last year, I was trying to simplify my swing and fell into a drill where you start with trail wrist extension and once the grip is facing the target just let it naturally lift a TOB position.  I found it worked on the course just as well as the range.

 

I was today years old when I realized it was essentially a variation 'no turn' part of the drill. I am not a good golfer.  But the one thing I've naturally been able to do shallow the club, bring the club from inside and get to a decent impact position.  My issues were always backswing related and this simplified it.  It was right when Broom Force came out.  It immediately clicked. So much so, I sent an excited text and some Apple Cash to Monte because I was so giddy about it.

 

Then for some reason I felt like that backswing was to 'training wheels' and got back to my old backswing which is way too long and makes it a lot harder to execute what I learned in Broom Force.  I shelved the whole thing and moved back to my old swing. Which is inconsistent due to so much timing by an overly long backswing.  My driver had been a bit wild, so I had an emergency 30 min lesson with a guy at the range by the office.  Video showed my super long backswing. He felt I was close on my downswing, I just needed to swing out to right field a bit. 

 

I was kind of wary of it.  So when I got home I looked up videos from guys I trusted about that advice.  (I know, I know) But it got me to the Monte video on swinging right/left. And more importantly it suggested the Original Monte NTC video.  And that got me into the intro to the new video series. And that got me to the Rebellion Golf website and the videos that have been sitting in the library the whole time.

 

The 'no turn' take away and Cast B is the old feel I had with Broom Force.  The only difference is truly committing to extension in the lead wrist which for me occurs at the beginning of the swing.  Almost me ‘unlocking’ after years of trying to hold angles. WAY too early, but 2 hours at the range today in ridiculous heat was very encouraging.

 

It was also full circle going back to the main concept of the 'Plane and Release' video.  Extension of the lead wrist is right there in the movement.  Yet I was still hanging on to the misguided concept that a flat left wrist at impact carried through the backswing and anything less was a flip.

 

 

 

 

I KNOW better than to fly the Mission Accomplished banner on any type of swing change.  But I REALLY think this has promise.

 

 

In many lessons, I've had instructors tell me I have a lot of good elements to my downswing. I am on plane, correct weight transition, club coming from the inside.  I'm a crappy golfer, but I've never had to fight OTT.  It was my backswing is a mess.  I've always taken the club back outside, then dropped on plane at the top. I've always searched for a backswing concept that is simple and repeatable.  I 'think' my swing issues were related to a very bad backswing AND that old idea of holding lag/angles and a pivot based released that made me think lead wrist extension was to be avoided at all cost.

 

So the no turn take away and 'cast b' address both of those.  I think, look at the latest video of my swing, that Cast A piece is something I do naturally.  I spent a lot of time on the 'no turn' take away' the last couple of days. And the idea that I just let. 'cast B' happen.  It's similar to the 'broom force feel', but a different way of just letting the club release freely.

 

I snuck out for a quick range session today and it was very encouraging.  Just lots of straight shots and not feeling like I was 'fighting' my swing or trying to keep it together.  I'd probably put 80% of it on the 'no turn' takeaway simplifying a long time swing demon.

 

 

 

[CasualLie]

Skipped my annual pre-season NTC review this year... Big mistake.

 

After slumping for awhile this season, but somehow progressing through match play, and hitting what felt like a "low" this past week, I "dusted" off the NTC videos.  

 

Reviewed the videos, again, (I skip the drills/lessons), went to the range where I promptly striped 10 in a row at 3/4 speed with nice tight draws, then ramped up the speed and striped 10 more with different irons.  Kid and his Dad hitting balls next to me were quite happy when I gave them the other 50 balls; I was cured!

 

I got so focused on pressure shifts/pivot trying to gain some distance, not a lot, just an extra club, that I totally neglected wrist work.  Looking forward to the next round!

[Rdailey9108]

2 hours ago, CasualLie said:

Skipped my annual pre-season NTC review this year... Big mistake.

 

After slumping for awhile this season, but somehow progressing through match play, and hitting what felt like a "low" this past week, I "dusted" off the NTC videos.  

 

Reviewed the videos, again, (I skip the drills/lessons), went to the range where I promptly striped 10 in a row at 3/4 speed with nice tight draws, then ramped up the speed and striped 10 more with different irons.  Kid and his Dad hitting balls next to me were quite happy when I gave them the other 50 balls; I was cured!

 

I got so focused on pressure shifts/pivot trying to gain some distance, not a lot, just an extra club, that I totally neglected wrist work.  Looking forward to the next round!

I actually fell in the trap of worry so much about the pressure shift that I neglected the wrists. Of course my swing was getting really long and out of sync. On the last few holes I started to focus on working the wrists better and I was striking everything perfectly. 

[Carlito]

On 7/3/2023 at 10:09 PM, CasualLie said:

....that I totally neglected wrist work

Can not agree more. Focusing on the wrists (hand action) has to be always my starting point. 

I use the grip trainer recommended from Padraig Harrington (SKLZ grip) to feel the pressure points even more intensive. 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Carlito

[CasualLie]

Slump over.  So dumb of me...I should be writing 500 times on the chalkboard...

 

[Jshap1212]

Just bought the ntc video and broomforce. Had some serious success at the range. I have a question? Do you throw your hands at “12” or is that a feel?  Also how early should I cast right from the top?

[harveythomas]

I tried going to this solution for my recent swing woes.  Had a lesson yesterday and my backswing shoulder rotation was measured at 65 degrees at the start which we moved to 85 in the lesson.

 

rather than the cast the guy got me applying pressure through the right palm pad on my left top of thumb through out the swing.  
 

i shot my best score in 9 months afterwards.  
 

The no turn cast concepts are the opposite of what works for me right now.