Monte's new No Turn - Cast

[mantan]

Still digging NTC.  When I'd gotten in a slump last year, I'd got to a backswing drill where I'd start by slowly setting the club so the handle was pointed at the target..  Then from that position, slowly go to the end of a natural backswing.  Just to get a feel for not taking too big a backswing.

 

For S&Gs, I did it at the range one day while warming up, but hit a ball at the end.  I hit balls really well.  Then again at my next range trip. I actually started just using it as much full swing (just a bit more normal speed).  I played well for a month. But for some reason felt it wasn't taking a real swing and went back to a more traditional backswing thought of turning a shoulder or hip, or bringing the club back.

 

Doing NTC drills last night,  I realized what I was doing the NT part.  It worked because I was manufacturing a good backswing position.

 

Will probably do a video lesson with Monte to see what I'm missing.

[NMSK16]

Ive bought Montes NTC video and its definitely improved my ball striking. Right now Im working on the shallowing move/cast A and feel like Im spraying the ball all over the place with hooks and hard pushes. Is cast A supposed to be an exaggerated feeling or do you actually want to cast towards 8 oclock in a full swing?

[slytown]

I said this in a couple of swing video threads, but want to put it here. Lydia Ko does a no turn wrist set pre shot routine that Monte talks about. Recommend for anyone bringing the arms too far behind to start the backswing.

 

Watch @ :41 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO5CLYM8dEw

[Milk Diesel]

Well, its been about 3 months since I added the 8oclock cast to my swing. My handicap has dropped from a 7 to a 4. 4 best rounds of my life in the last 3 weeks. What did it fix?

 

I didnt realize how poor my wrist angles were in my backswing. When I started I COULDNT cast to 8 because my bottom hand was so far under the club and shaft so flat. I was rolling my takeaway. This also helped my chipping a TON (Correct wrist angles).

 

It fixed my steep shaft and EE within weeks of getting this feel down. NO MORE BACK PAIN!!!! This has led to me being able to practice more.

 

Yes, it hasnt been that long. But I've never enjoyed golf more. THANK YOU MONTE!!!

[higgle-the-elder]

Coming back to report that after a couple years of NTC I always play my best when working on Cast A. I’ve never really been able to consciously do Cast B but it seems to just happen naturally the harder I throw my angles away for Cast A.

 

I’ve also noticed that trying to keep my back to the target as long as possible to start the downswing, especially with driver, leads to much better results.  

 

I know looks aren’t everything, but my swing looks better than it has in years and I barely early extend or come over the top anymore unless I start sucking the club too far inside, pulling the handle down, or spinning out. 30 years of muscle memory is hard to shake!

[Oldnavycdr]

I have the video and worked through a lot of the drills.  One question about cast A - is this the "motorcycle move" with the left hand?  It sure does clean up a lot for me.

[JetPilot]

Hmmm....I've never really paid attention to Sung Jae Im.  But followed him for several holes at the Tour Championship today and he looks like textbook NTC.  Just finished studying some videos of him, and it looks like everything I'm trying to accomplish with the NTC fundamentals.  

 

I think I'll be studying some more of him.  What a great move.  

[canuker]

On 8/27/2023 at 12:01 AM, JetPilot said:

Hmmm....I've never really paid attention to Sung Jae Im.  But followed him for several holes at the Tour Championship today and he looks like textbook NTC.  Just finished studying some videos of him, and it looks like everything I'm trying to accomplish with the NTC fundamentals.  

 

I think I'll be studying some more of him.  What a great move.  

Just watched some highlights. Beauty swing. Interesting backswing for sure. Kind of slow and jerky but the transition and impact are silky. 

[Jeselnik]

I have a tournament in 2 weeks and don’t want to introduce any fog.  Is this about intent to move the hands or is there more?  I feel like I am missing out.  I already have a good pivot and release, plenty of power and accuracy now, but I wouldn’t say no to a longer drive or less effort.  Swing currently feels light as a feather then like i am two handing a shot put.  Sometimes its too heavy and costs me distance.

 

80 pages is a lot to sift thru……thanks.

 

JNIK

Edited September 2, 2023 by Jeselnik
Thx

[virtuoso]

45 minutes ago, Jeselnik said:

I have a tournament in 2 weeks and don’t want to introduce any fog.  Is this about intent to move the hands or is there more?  I feel like I am missing out.  I already have a good pivot and release, plenty of power and accuracy now, but I wouldn’t say no to a longer drive or less effort.  Swing currently feels light as a feather then like i am two handing a shot put.  Sometimes its too heavy and costs me distance.

 

80 pages is a lot to sift thru……thanks.

 

JNIK

I imagine it feels light as a feather again at P9. I’m afraid I have some bad news for you.

[Jeselnik]

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

I imagine it feels light as a feather again at P9. I’m afraid I have some bad news for you.

 
Sure you do………If its about the NTC i would rather hear it from somebody that knows.  If you got nothing about the NTC then get lost.

 

JNIK

[NJBigFish22]

I need some clarication, and I am lazy and not reading 80 pages. Maybe @MonteScheinblum will see this and chime in.  As I have returned to the game after 12+ years, Ihave been practicing NTC and am making good progress, but solely with my irons.  I struggle with Driver and FW, so I haven’t been using while playing.  I know this isn’t conducive to scoring, so I started to watch Broom Force this evening and this is what I’m trying to clarify, is the cast to 8 and the cast to 12 in NTC, the same move as in Broom Force?  Thanks in advance.

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

On 9/2/2023 at 9:29 AM, Jeselnik said:

.  I already have a good pivot and release, plenty of power and accuracy now, but I wouldn’t say no to a longer drive or less effort...

I wouldn't mess with anything in tournament season, but...

 

If you were going to---and I don't know what Monte thinks about his much earlier series of instruction and their utility---but I really liked Drive For Dough and found it incredibly packed with information.  Like stopping the video every 10 seconds to write something else down to work on.

[higgle-the-elder]

I'm wondering if @MonteScheinblum or anyone else can chime in here about NTC as it relates to a full swing. My biggest issue is that if I never take my left arm past parallel, NTC works crazy well. I pound the ball as far as I've ever hit it, maybe farther, and my contact is generally crisp. The problem is if I'm playing well, my confidence goes up, my swing gets longer because my brain says "you da man!", and the results get much iffier and sometimes downright bad. There's also the feeling like I want to take a much longer backswing because that's what so many other players do. I want to swing like I see so many pros swinging.

 

So I'm wondering, is left arm parallel supposed to be a full swing or just a drill? Or is it just supposed to be a feel because what feels like P3 for most people actually ends up being closer to a full swing when they're out on the course swinging freely? Or all of the above? I think Padraig Harrington said that in one of his YouTube videos—that in practicing you should take shorter swings because on the course your backswing generally gets longer.

 

I think an answer of "left arm parallel is the be-all end-all," while unsatisfying, will keep help keep my caveman brain from kicking in and telling me to swing longer and harder, especially when I'm playing well. If it's just a drill, then my caveman brain will keep going "ooga booga, need swing longer" and never be satisfied.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by higgle-the-elder

[Jeselnik]

The NTC has gone much smoother than anticipated.  I don’t think this would go as smoothly w/o a well trained pivot.  Comfortable with casting from P4 to P5,prefer closer to P5 atm.  The earlier the cast, the less physically taxing.  Currently not any better performance than regular swing.   Additional NTC work over the winter.

 

JNIK

[Golfbeat]

On 9/14/2023 at 11:01 PM, higgle-the-elder said:

I'm wondering if @MonteScheinblum or anyone else can chime in here about NTC as it relates to a full swing. My biggest issue is that if I never take my left arm past parallel, NTC works crazy well. I pound the ball as far as I've ever hit it, maybe farther, and my contact is generally crisp. The problem is if I'm playing well, my confidence goes up, my swing gets longer because my brain says "you da man!", and the results get much iffier and sometimes downright bad. There's also the feeling like I want to take a much longer backswing because that's what so many other players do. I want to swing like I see so many pros swinging.

 

So I'm wondering, is left arm parallel supposed to be a full swing or just a drill? Or is it just supposed to be a feel because what feels like P3 for most people actually ends up being closer to a full swing when they're out on the course swinging freely? Or all of the above? I think Padraig Harrington said that in one of his YouTube videos—that in practicing you should take shorter swings because on the course your backswing generally gets longer.

 

I think an answer of "left arm parallel is the be-all end-all," while unsatisfying, will keep help keep my caveman brain from kicking in and telling me to swing longer and harder, especially when I'm playing well. If it's just a drill, then my caveman brain will keep going "ooga booga, need swing longer" and never be satisfied.

 

 

 

Watch Jon Rahm.

[TheDeanAbides]

13 minutes ago, Golfbeat said:

 

Watch Jon Rahm.

Or JB Holmes or Sandy Lyle for us old fellas. 

[coops]

Or Allen Doyle for an extreme and successful example 

[GolfSwang]

On 9/19/2023 at 7:30 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

Or JB Holmes or Sandy Lyle for us old fellas. 

 

Good call on Sandy Lyle.

 

Found a couple swing videos from a decade ago where he's seemingly doing a perfect demonstration of NTC Backswing A and B. Ahead of his time ha! 

 

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, GolfSwang said:

 

Good call on Sandy Lyle.

 

Found a couple swing videos from a decade ago where he's seemingly doing a perfect demonstration of NTC Backswing A and B. Ahead of his time ha! 

 

 

 

Back when he was completely lost. It’s such a shame he fell off a cliff because in the mid 80s nobody hit it better or purer than him. 

[11bravoveteran]

Hey! Just picked up ntc after Monte’s latest Instagram live. Very cool monte enjoyed watching those from the east coast. I also watched amg video recently on shallowing with the right arm unloading like a reverse bicep curl basically toward 8 o’clock  on the downswing. Does cast A pretty much encourage that move?

 

Also when intentionally trying to hit a stinger with say a 4 iron and really getting that dynamic loft down under 10, how do you go about cast b on that type of shot vs regular shots? 
 

thanks!

[Rbsiedsc]

Coming back to this as my coach has noticed my arms lagging behind my turn. I am able to drop in the slot but sometimes I overcompensate and then get hooky. We have done a lot of work to fix my arm structure, this was just the next step in my progression. 
 

so, my coach is basically having me do a version on NTC. Slow mo swings just arms and let body turn with arms. Then arms start the downswing and the turn reacts. Then 25% speed up to top, pause, arms down, pause and then basically throw #2. Amazing how this comes back. Going to spend all off-season ingraining. 

[Rbsiedsc]

On 10/12/2023 at 7:45 PM, Rbsiedsc said:

Coming back to this as my coach has noticed my arms lagging behind my turn. I am able to drop in the slot but sometimes I overcompensate and then get hooky. We have done a lot of work to fix my arm structure, this was just the next step in my progression. 
 

so, my coach is basically having me do a version on NTC. Slow mo swings just arms and let body turn with arms. Then arms start the downswing and the turn reacts. Then 25% speed up to top, pause, arms down, pause and then basically throw #2. Amazing how this comes back. Going to spend all off-season ingraining. 

A couple weeks back into it. One I didn’t video was a full swing where I really threw hard on #1. Had that thought after some partial shots to LAP with throw two were going all the way back to the trees. That forceful throw full swing went over those trees. 
 

video 25/50/75/100% speed swings. 

and where I was prior to this work. 

 

[mrjrogolfer]

On 2/16/2021 at 5:09 PM, Simpsonia said:

Just to add a caveat for the original question. I would say that Cast A causes the left shoulder to separate from the chin, but only in conjunction with the No Turn part (ie you're not turning your torso; or stated another way, keeping your back to the target). If you try to Cast A without that No Turn part, you're going to have a difficult time making it work. 

I agree with this. I don't think Cast A, in and of itself, causes the left shoulder to separate from the chin. They are different moves, one (Cast A) is a shallowing move, the other (left shoulder off chin) is a steepening move. The proof of this is that Monte teaches left shoulder separation as a transition thought to accompany Cast A, a "pat the head" move to be done simultaneously with "rubbing the belly."

I like using left shoulder off the chin and it would be great if Cast A gets you this for free, but I don't think it does.

[Rbsiedsc]

@MonteScheinblum quick question or maybe I already answered it. While videoing, I notice the face closed at the top. I’m fine with that. When I hit my foam balls the ball is starting right of target and I can now get them to draw back (I know not a real ball but best I can do at the moment). Is that a sign that NTC is working properly? Similar to efficient swing of trying to hit a hook to target?

[mrjrogolfer]

On 7/27/2021 at 2:43 AM, calvin4w said:

Bought NTC this week after working on UTB, D4D, Complete wedges series, Efficient swing as well as the original NTC YouTube video over the past year.

 

I found this new version of NTC to be very helpful and expand on a lot of the 'no turn' drills that have appeared in the past videos. The ulnar deviation and and left wrist flexion is a very new feel and after a week I'm still having trouble with cast A when putting the steps together. I can get everything up to Cast A in a pretty fluid motion, but I have to pause and do a small cast to 8 before setting my wrist again and swinging. Also like many others, my wrist is pretty sore.

 

I was wondering if anyone else finds similarities between Cast A and the other shallowing feels Monte has used in the past (working the elbow towards the belly button, getting shoulder off chin, secondary tilt). The examples I gave are all feels that I've really liked an had no trouble integrating, and my thought is that if I can add a little wrist flexion and ulnar deviation to one of those feels, it might help with the hiccup. For some reason, the Cast A feel doesn't trigger a downswing for me the same way getting shoulder off chin and elbow to belly button does, and when I think about casting the rest of my body forgets what to do and I end up just making wrist movements. 

 

Cast B seems very familiar too, I tried to look through the other videos to find what it reminded me of but couldn't pinpoint it. I think it was in UTB or wedges video where Monte breaks down a partial wedge shot as a shallowing and then an almost flipping wrist-casting motion that seems like cast B. But without confidence I was doing Cast A correctly I wasn't sure my cast b feel was quite right either.

 

I could be wrong but I thought "left shoulder off the chin" is a steepening move, not a shallowing move, and is meant to be paired with Cast A (a shallowing move) rather than in substitution for it. But I'd defer to Monte on this.

[mrjrogolfer]

On 8/8/2021 at 4:08 PM, Golfbeat said:

I was hitting a lot of thin shots to the right lately and realized that I got the back swing and the cast A correct but I was still shallow with my body. My swing had been a bit steep to shallow before (right shoulder down) and now I was getting shallow early AND shallow late instead of shallow early and steep late. I am now trying to be steep late by getting the left shoulder down and around and voila perfect long push draws.

 

If you are hitting the ball thin and to the right make sure that you do not only focus on the shallow shaft but also on the steep body (down hill).

My thoughts exactly. Contrary to what some others have posted, getting the left shoulder off the chin, down, and around is a steepening not a shallowing move. It offsets Cast A which is a shallowing move.

[mrjrogolfer]

On 8/28/2021 at 6:01 AM, Golfbeat said:

 

Just to add that it also need to go around not just down. For me as a feeling that is very important.

Golfbeat do you find you have to consciously get the left shoulder around after getting it down and off the chin, or does it sort of naturally follow?

[mrjrogolfer]

On 5/31/2023 at 1:30 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

I have no issues with Jake.  He’s a friend 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cm2Vy60okx2/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

Here's a Jake Hutt video which Monte likes and has posted on his instagram page, so I'm assuming Monte's cool with integrating it into the swing he teaches.

My question: has anyone attempted to incorporate this move (right foot goes clockwise in transition/downswing) into NTC? It seems to me it is another way of staying closed longer, like Justin Rose's "back to target" thought. I also think it has other benefits: promotes separation of right and left knee, prevents early extension (right hip going out too early), opens up the left hip (in the 10:30 direction), and facillitates a bit of downswing squat (regaining flexion). It's just such a counterintuitive move that I'm having difficulty implementing it, but if it works well with NTC I'm willing to keep trying to ingrain it.

[GolfSwang]

This video is another good breakdown of the wrist and hand actions Monte describes in NTC, worth a watch. Some helpful demonstrations of Casts A + B around the 17min mark