Monte's new No Turn - Cast

[Fairways_and_Greens]

On 3/21/2023 at 11:36 AM, vandyfan said:

 

@Acooke2434 - um....EXACTLY. I used to have a heel miss and now almost everything is out of the toe. Even though I am a 5 HDCP (means nothing really, haha) I am so glad you chimed in and will think hard about that. In my mind, I absolutely start trying to steer it and that results in me using my legs less and less (i.e. getting less and less hip depth) which is probably meaning that I don't get my hands deep either. My issue/miss/challenge (I think) is that I spin out from the top with my shoulders and come into the ball too open which is from wiping it and hitting it out on the toe. So THANK YOU for giving me something to chew on. As mentioned in NTC, getting the hands to 8 o'clock in the backswing basically FORCES hip depth as well assuming you stay in posture etc. 

 

update: went to the range quickly and this is an improvement vs toe contact

 

 

OMG, that club is a horror show. It gives me anxiety. Clean it!

Edited March 23, 2023 by Fairways_and_Greens

[pappaf2]

I got the ntc video a while ago and admittedly did not stick with it.

ive been trying to get my face more closed at impact recently and have toyed with a the motorcycle move/ Cast A to try and accomplish that. Haven’t spent too much time on it yet. 
 

interestingly I hit some clubs on a trackman with my normal feel and the ntc Cast A feel so I could see what measurable differences I saw. I was pretty surprised. I have some pictures of my numbers with a 52* wedge. 

 

Cast A shifted my path way right and shallowed the strike (had a few that were 2 up with a wedge, I think with this move I need to have the ball further back in stance) . Slower swing with better smash and ball speed. Similar launch and spin. 
 

@MonteScheinblum is this a normal outcome with adding Cast A?

[PAndaemonium89]

@MonteScheinblum I purchased your videos and partly to confirm my own finding with this cast move, but also hoping to help me with long clubs. I had amazing success when i figured this out with my short irons. Unfortunately, it does not translate well (for me) specifically with woods. My golf pro keeps saying to send my arms faster, but constantly thinning with open face or off toe. I am also toe down because my hands tend to escape away from my body. I do have a measured in to out swing but can't get that face to square. 

 

Would you agree that I almost have to "cast" faster with longer clubs than short?

Edited March 31, 2023 by PAndaemonium89

[PAndaemonium89]

On 3/21/2023 at 11:36 AM, vandyfan said:

 

@Acooke2434 - um....EXACTLY. I used to have a heel miss and now almost everything is out of the toe. Even though I am a 5 HDCP (means nothing really, haha) I am so glad you chimed in and will think hard about that. In my mind, I absolutely start trying to steer it and that results in me using my legs less and less (i.e. getting less and less hip depth) which is probably meaning that I don't get my hands deep either. My issue/miss/challenge (I think) is that I spin out from the top with my shoulders and come into the ball too open which is from wiping it and hitting it out on the toe. So THANK YOU for giving me something to chew on. As mentioned in NTC, getting the hands to 8 o'clock in the backswing basically FORCES hip depth as well assuming you stay in posture etc. 

 

update: went to the range quickly and this is an improvement vs toe contact

 

 

I found the toe becoming an issue if I lose the lead wrist angle (ulnar deviation) at impact presenting the toe. Once I keep the wrist close to my body then less toe hits

[Ira Shoff]

It's obvious many people don't understand "respond"  Maybe Monte should say "Let the body follow". Some of these g uys obviously have massive back swings. Old habits die hard.

[TheDeanAbides]

...

Edited April 3, 2023 by TheDeanAbides
Superfluous post

[Acooke2434]

Relating my own personal feels with wedges and pitch shots after walking a par 3 course... I've read a few posts (much earlier in the thread) that with those shots people feel the shorter swing only has time for "Cast B."  Man, if I don't try to feel at least a mini version of the "transition" and "Cast A" moves with those shots I can mess those up with the best of them too!

 

Just another notch of praise in the belt on NTC.

[BayAreaDoublePar]

Bought this a couple days ago after going with Gankas for the last two years. He got me from beginner to breaking 90 once and now shooting in the mid-90s consistently but feel like I've hit a wall and never been able to get his legwork down. 

 

Went to the range today and doing a lot of slow piecemeal drills like Monte mentioned. Trying to blend them, I was able to get some great effortless contact with all irons up to 6i and driver was great also. They certainly still need to be cleaned up but this is far simpler and the early results are promising. However, was having trouble with my hybrids and woods off the deck. They were all fat shots. Any idea why this could be? Lack of pressure forward? I've always had trouble with getting pressure off my trail leg. 

 

Reading through this whole thread, on page 6 but excited to continue to dial this in, hopefully it will be a game changer! 

[rchang72]

So many reasons. The most likely is with the longer clubs, you swing faster and add back some of your default patterns. You only did one session. Give yourself some grace. 
Monte’s line is “I topped it, who cares? I’m trying to ingrain a new motor pattern.” I found working on the drills with shorter clubs first and just thinking target and one intent when I swing longer clubs 

[vandyfan]

I have been working on it for 6 months now and I had many moments where I could feel a big change come through but permanently re-writing my motor patterns is still underway, @BayAreaDoublePar. I imagine most people can learn motor patterns faster than I can so my experience may be atypical. I think it is a very good way to swing a golf club and I have committed to it. I can't comment on why you would be hitting it fat (because I am not a teaching professional) but I can tell you that I have struggled with toe contact the entire time I have been learning this swing. I have a working hypothesis as to why this is but really you just have to keep working the drills and slowly build it into your swing. 

 

I imagine it is easier if you already have the backswing and Cast B built into your swing before you start here. I did not. I had issues in my swing at every position that is taught in NTC. Initially, I jumped straight into Cast A before I fixed my backswing and as a result I was fighting myself the whole time because I wasn't in a good position at the the top. Then I watched the entire thing and tried to fix everything at once and that resulted in a million swing thoughts.  So these are two good ways NOT to do the program. 

 

Finally I started over and methodically I am going through each section. I also took a facetime lesson with Monte which I would recommend as a way to see how you are tracking. Just my two cents. I am a bad student but I am trying to be better!

[pappaf2]

I have a couple Backswing B questions?

 

@MonteScheinblum talks about seeing the window/gap between the front and rear leg when done properly. Should this be judged based on video taken from the foot line? Seems like if the camera is on the hand line the angle will show more of the gap? My thought being you could possibly be not performing the backswing correctly and still seeing the gap? 
 

next thought, is Kenny Perry’s backswing essentially performing the prescribed backswing moves but not as well blended as most pros? Hand set to 7 and then delayed extra shoulder/chest turn to 8?

 

 

[GoGoErky]

On 4/19/2023 at 10:11 AM, vandyfan said:

I imagine most people can learn motor patterns faster than I can so my experience may be atypical.

Motor patterns are changed over time. Those that learn them faster are the ones that spend more time doing them properly which is slowly and over and over. It takes 8-12 weeks to start to change a motor pattern, longer for more complex ones. But that is again done with slow reps. The brain and body move from these slow controlled movements known as closed loop motor control and then as they become engrained the mind and body switch into reactive movements and natural movements also known as open loop motor control.

 

One can’t jump from working on one aspect of the ntc to another week to week and expect things to change. Or making changes at 3/4 to full speed.

 

It’s why @MonteScheinblumhas posted about telling students 4-6 weeks between lessons despite it affecting his bank account or why he tells students when they come back or when they are doing his monthly check in program to keep working on whatever he told them. It so that they can focus on that one thing and get better at it.

[Jbarretta]

Cast B looks similar to the Rit release from hardys book   is there a version for lead arm dominant golfers? Would it be like a tennis backhand ?

[vandyfan]

16 hours ago, pappaf2 said:

next thought, is Kenny Perry’s backswing essentially performing the prescribed backswing moves but not as well blended as most pros? Hand set to 7 and then delayed extra shoulder/chest turn to 8?

 

This is a really good catch, it is literally like he is doing the two backswing drills. Also, pretty wild how much he stands up in the backswing and then squats down into a traditional transition position.

[Golf_Goof]

Man, KPs right heel still hasn't come off the ground yet,,, 😯

[pappaf2]

I’ve been thinking I have a decent enough backswing so I had not paid as much attention to the backswing part of the NTC video. Well I finally paid attention to it the other day. The following is based on doing some air swings around the house and one 30 minute session hitting short shots so I could be off my rocker. Read at your own risk.
 

Using monte’s method of getting from 7 to 8 o’clock is such a different feeling than what I’ve been doing in my swing even when just performing slow motion air swings. I feel like depending how I do it, performing this move almost seems like it pushes me into transition automatically. Pushing the body towards the target (Amg surf, re-centering, moving downhill) as the backswing is not yet done but about to change direction. That move is not one I’ve ever really felt or been able to incorporate into my swing. 
 

I’ve always struggled with the 9/3 type swing which makes “partial” wedge shots on the course not good. I wondered if the 7-8 backswing feel was something that should be performed on those shots too? Went out and hit some short shots doing nothing more than set the hands to about thigh high and “turn” the chest/torso/right shoulder to move from 7-8 and feel like my back starts moving to the target slightly. From there nothing else but make a downswing. I couldn’t believe how easily the ball flew to the target 30 yards away with minimal effort and arm movements! Not a normal feeling for me. Probably hit a couple dozen shots just like that with pretty similar outcomes. Also hit a couple 60-70 yard shots like this and was amazed how far/straight/low the ball flew with such minimal effort. 
 

I say all this with such minimal time trying it under my belt that it’s obviously the ramblings of a crazy person. I’m really just so dumbstruck how this move can be and feel so different than what I’ve been doing before. The cast moves get most of the love in this thread, but don’t sleep on the 7-8 backswing, even if you think yours is decent.

Edited April 21, 2023 by pappaf2

[vandyfan]

On 4/21/2023 at 5:22 PM, pappaf2 said:

I’ve been thinking I have a decent enough backswing so I had not paid as much attention to the backswing part of the NTC video.

 

I did the same thing but what learning the NTC backswing did for me was shortened my backswing to an acceptable level. Previously I was lifting my arms and they would really outrace my body. I could make it "look good' down the line but face-on it was way too long. 

 

When I first got the NTC videos I jumped straight into the Cast A section because I thought that was my "only" problem 😄. I am deep in the process now and actually enjoying the process/struggle for the most part. 

 

[Golf_Goof]

On 1/23/2023 at 2:25 PM, Rdailey9108 said:

@MonteScheinblum said I need to work on my wrist angles as well as the some other things he told me. So I decided to practice the cast/ulnar deviating move. Does this look right?

 

 

 

 

Didn't see any feedback to your question. 

 

I was mucking around with this into a practice net and while the move (as you demonstrate here) was really difficult to grasp; when I was able to get it the feeling was quite unusual and rather hard to repeat - but impact was sublime. Almost a feeling of auto-release; and as other have mentioned it sorta disabled my usual source/feeling of power (handle pulling). 

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Golf_Goof

[i*windows]

someone asked about longer irons, I can't find the post, but this is how I do it and it works well

 

the longer the club think about throwing the club sooner, the shorter the club throw it later, 

 

you can also mess around with throwing the club at 8'oclock, or 11 and see how it effects ball flight. 

 

Jake Hutt explains this better than me

Jake Hutt, PGA (@jakehuttgolf) • Instagram photos and videos

[Habitual Flipper]

I had a lot of success last year with NTC, and really just the cast part. I went from a typical OTT move to a standard 3-5 degrees in to out swing path, and had some of the best balls striking I've ever had. This year I'm struggling bad with low point control. I'm not sure if it is just shaking off the winter rust or something else going on.

 

Any one else deal with low point control issues while working on the NTC? 

[Duffer Mark]

I've been working some with this drill posted by Shauheen (in the tweet below). I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to combine that drill with practicing cast A. Thoughts? 

 

 

[pappaf2]

Would I be correct in assuming the NTC transition and the Zipper Away move are the same thing? 

 

played around with some slow swings last night with super exaggerated zipper away feel and it really keeps the tush back.
 

 

[Golf_Goof]

On 4/28/2023 at 1:39 PM, pappaf2 said:

Would I be correct in assuming the NTC transition and the Zipper Away move are the same thing? 

 

played around with some slow swings last night with super exaggerated zipper away feel and it really keeps the tush back.
 

 

Nice avatar 😎

[coops]

While down the Youtube rabbit hole, I stumbled across this... reminded me of an extreme cast A (?) - 

 

 

 

[Duffer Mark]

9 hours ago, coops said:

While down the Youtube rabbit hole, I stumbled across this... reminded me of an extreme cast A (?) - 

 

 

 

 

How to shallow the bat!

[Rdailey9108]

I've been practicing on some feels with Monte to help shallow the swing. I can do it at 50 percent speed but full speed still is a work in progress. 

 

 

 

 

[vandyfan]

I have noticed Jake Hutt seems to be teaching the no turn cast lately. Doesn’t seem to be associated with Monte in any way. He even used a clock to describe cast A but changed the orientation points so it is cast to 4 o clock instead of 8. Interesting.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, vandyfan said:

Doesn’t seem to be associated with Monte in any way.

 

@MonteScheinblum didn't invent the move or anything. There's very little new in golf, including much of what I've taught some people. Monte may have come up with the name, or popularized it among a subset of golfers, but it's not new.

 

Besides…

 

"Good artists copy. Great artists steal."

-- Steve Jobs (not really)

[vandyfan]

22 minutes ago, iacas said:

@MonteScheinblum didn't invent the move or anything. There's very little new in golf, including much of what I've taught some people. Monte may have come up with the name, or popularized it among a subset of golfers, but it's not new.

 

I understand that aspect, I guess the most jarring aspect what when he used the overhead clock image. That felt like theft to me. 

[iacas]

10 minutes ago, vandyfan said:

I understand that aspect, I guess the most jarring aspect what when he used the overhead clock image. That felt like theft to me. 

 

I can understand that.

 

It'd be interesting, from a golf geek point of view, to find some things that are taught currently, and go back to see if people can really find the first time they were said or written. Pre-YouTube, the "said" part might be tough… but a lot of the older guys wrote a lot of books, articles, etc.

 

Could probably go back on 20 or 30 different things in the full swing alone.

 

Anyway, OT.