Monte's new No Turn - Cast

[Trippels]

 

[ThePaineTrain]

Watched the rainy NTC video, then purchased BROOMFORCE and took concepts from both to the range yesterday. Worked on the sweep drills but using the no turn idea for the backswing.

 

Irons felt amazing, great compression, tiny amount of fade, nice "divot" pattern in the mat (I could see the carpet ruffled from the ball to 2 inches in front). Couldn't match the success with driver, but I feel like that's because when I tried the various BROOMFORCE drills, the clubhead needed to be off the mat on the pavement to be in the right spot for the sweep and I wasn't going to wreck my driver doing that. Usually during a range session, if I start mishitting driver, I go back to an 8 iron and it takes a few more mishits before I get my swing back, but not with these drills; iron shots from PW through 5 felt automatic.

 

Immediately went and bought the full NTC series when I got home.

[JetPilot]

4 hours ago, ThePaineTrain said:

Watched the rainy NTC video, then purchased BROOMFORCE and took concepts from both to the range yesterday. Worked on the sweep drills but using the no turn idea for the backswing.

 

Irons felt amazing, great compression, tiny amount of fade, nice "divot" pattern in the mat (I could see the carpet ruffled from the ball to 2 inches in front). Couldn't match the success with driver, but I feel like that's because when I tried the various BROOMFORCE drills, the clubhead needed to be off the mat on the pavement to be in the right spot for the sweep and I wasn't going to wreck my driver doing that. Usually during a range session, if I start mishitting driver, I go back to an 8 iron and it takes a few more mishits before I get my swing back, but not with these drills; iron shots from PW through 5 felt automatic.

 

Immediately went and bought the full NTC series when I got home.

NTC and Early Extension videos pretty much changed my golfing life, have made golf fun again and have made me "can't wait to get on the course again".  The AMG videos supplement those concepts nicely.  

[coops]

I happened to stumble on a youtube video about 5 long hitting LPGA players... Anne Van Dam is my favourite swing of the 5, although seeing Bianca Pagdanganan go after it through impact and beyond with murderous intent is quite something....

 

anyway - Maria Fassi down the line in slo mo was quite some startling shaft shallowing with no right shoulder dipping - seemed to be very cast A in transition - made an animated GIF of it - see if you agree

 

 

 

Here's a link to the full video of 5

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

6 hours ago, coops said:

I happened to stumble on a youtube video about 5 long hitting LPGA players... Anne Van Dam is my favourite swing of the 5, although seeing Bianca Pagdanganan go after it through impact and beyond with murderous intent is quite something....

 

anyway - Maria Fassi down the line in slo mo was quite some startling shaft shallowing with no right shoulder dipping - seemed to be very cast A in transition - made an animated GIF of it - see if you agree

 

 

 

Here's a link to the full video of 5

 

 

They’re pretty much all doing cast a. 

[ThePaineTrain]

After 2 range sessions this week, took NTC to the course for 9 this morning. Driver and woods were not good at all, but at least my miss was a 100 yard topspin smash in play vs my usual miss of a 200 yard snap hook into the woods. The tee box dinks set me up for my newfound 5 iron consistency, either on or close on most par 4s despite taking my 2nd from 200 yards out.

 

My playing partner said he thought I was standing a little far from the ball on drives, which I had been consciously doing since my miss at the range with the new cast motion was to sweep too low and pop it off the crown. At least in my range sessions I'd get 2 or 3 solid hits eventually, just wasn't finding anything on the course today.

[TheDeanAbides]

16 hours ago, ThePaineTrain said:

After 2 range sessions this week, took NTC to the course for 9 this morning. Driver and woods were not good at all, but at least my miss was a 100 yard topspin smash in play vs my usual miss of a 200 yard snap hook into the woods. The tee box dinks set me up for my newfound 5 iron consistency, either on or close on most par 4s despite taking my 2nd from 200 yards out.

 

My playing partner said he thought I was standing a little far from the ball on drives, which I had been consciously doing since my miss at the range with the new cast motion was to sweep too low and pop it off the crown. At least in my range sessions I'd get 2 or 3 solid hits eventually, just wasn't finding anything on the course today.

Did you expect to? Think in terms of months and years for this to become second nature rather than a couple of sessions. That’s even if you’re doing it correctly and getting into a position at the top from where you can even perform cast a. 

Edited July 23, 2022 by TheDeanAbides

[ThePaineTrain]

5 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Did you expect to? Think in terms of months and years for this to become second nature rather than a couple of sessions. That’s even if you’re doing it correctly and getting into a position at the top from where you can even perform cast a. 

Expect to? No, but I did hope for at least one nice drive to chalk up to dumb luck.

[TheDeanAbides]

17 minutes ago, ThePaineTrain said:

Expect to? No, but I did hope for at least one nice drive to chalk up to dumb luck.

It’s irrelevant though. You shouldn’t even be trying this with driver at this stage, man. Better to post a video hitting a short iron and make sure that you’re doing it correctly. 

[Corona King]

Has anyone doing the NTC run into consistent slices/fades? Using Trackman I repeatedly see this, where the club face is open at impact and the club path is left.  Not sure how to fix, or what this indicates I am not doing right. Has anyone had this issue and fixed it, and if so, how?

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

4 hours ago, Corona King said:

Has anyone doing the NTC run into consistent slices/fades? Using Trackman I repeatedly see this, where the club face is open at impact and the club path is left.  Not sure how to fix, or what this indicates I am not doing right. Has anyone had this issue and fixed it, and if so, how?

 

 

Could be anything. Post a swing

[PGA SOMEDAY]

How many have lost speed while working on the NTC? I lost about 5mph on my 7i and closer to 10mph on my driver. That said, I am hitting it a bit more solid with this, I just feel like I can’t go after it quite as much. Maybe that’ll come back once I’m more comfortable with the moves?

[Hilts1969]

On 7/23/2022 at 9:26 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

Did you expect to? Think in terms of months and years for this to become second nature rather than a couple of sessions. That’s even if you’re doing it correctly and getting into a position at the top from where you can even perform cast a. 

 

Years is a bit over the top, put people off why don't you:-)

[TheDeanAbides]

39 minutes ago, Hilts1969 said:

 

Years is a bit over the top, put people off why don't you:-)

It’s really not at all. Changing a bad golf swing where a player has been OTT for years can take years to correct to the point where they can shoot in the 70s regularly. It takes months for tour pros to make significant changes and they’re hitting hundreds of balls every day. 
 

Thinking that it isn’t going to take years is the biggest barrier to proper improvement.

 

 If a player is, say an 18 and posts a swing here with a number of the classic faults. Maybe they’re rolling their hands over and getting really deep and flat and then throwing the shoulders at it. 
 

Say we work on the grip and setup first and that gives them a foundation, but they don’t feel comfortable so they don’t practice the new stuff effectively for the say 200 balls they hit a week. How long do you think it’ll take? 
 

With high caps it can take weeks or months to even get them to be willing to step out of their comfort zone. Months more to get them to practice the new moves properly and effectively (that’s not just trying to hit driver all the time). 
 

They usually then give up for a while and chase ball flight or get distracted by a tip on YouTube. 
 

If the right stuff is practiced in the correct order with every ball counting and dry practice is done with a mirror and without a ball, then big changes can happen quicker, but to go from 18 to, say, 5 takes plenty of time. 

Edited July 25, 2022 by TheDeanAbides

[Golfbeat]

48 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

It’s really not at all. Changing a bad golf swing where a player has been OTT for years can take years to correct to the point where they can shoot in the 70s regularly. It takes months for tour pros to make significant changes and they’re hitting hundreds of balls every day. 
 

Thinking that it isn’t going to take years is the biggest barrier to proper improvement.

 

 If a player is, say an 18 and posts a swing here with a number of the classic faults. Maybe they’re rolling their hands over and getting really deep and flat and then throwing the shoulders at it. 
 

Say we work on the grip and setup first and that gives them a foundation, but they don’t feel comfortable so they don’t practice the new stuff effectively for the say 200 balls they hit a week. How long do you think it’ll take? 
 

With high caps it can take weeks or months to even get them to be willing to step out of their comfort zone. Months more to get them to practice the new moves properly and effectively (that’s not just trying to hit driver all the time). 
 

They usually then give up for a while and chase ball flight or get distracted by a tip on YouTube. 
 

If the right stuff is practiced in the correct order with every ball counting and dry practice is done with a mirror and without a ball, then big changes can happen quicker, but to go from 18 to, say, 5 takes plenty of time. 

 

How is this working for yourself? What is the development of your own handicap over the last two years and what is it at the moment? Could you show us your swing? Thanks for giving some legitimacy for all the theoretical knowledge you volunteer in this thread.

[BeTheBall_]

On 7/24/2022 at 5:28 AM, Corona King said:

Has anyone doing the NTC run into consistent slices/fades? Using Trackman I repeatedly see this, where the club face is open at impact and the club path is left.  Not sure how to fix, or what this indicates I am not doing right. Has anyone had this issue and fixed it, and if so, how?

 

 

 

 

Opposite for me, NTC gets me hitting way more from the inside with a consistent draw and my miss being a big hook when I over-do some of the cast movements.

 

Posting a swing would probably help but first things I'd check are grip strength and club face at P2.

 

[BeTheBall_]

6 hours ago, PGA SOMEDAY said:

How many have lost speed while working on the NTC? I lost about 5mph on my 7i and closer to 10mph on my driver. That said, I am hitting it a bit more solid with this, I just feel like I can’t go after it quite as much. Maybe that’ll come back once I’m more comfortable with the moves?

 

Yep, but it came back.

 

My old swing was basically firing everything hard from the top, which would inevitably lead to slowing down in to impact to give my hands a chance to save things.

 

NTC is basically the opposite - slow (patient may be a better word) at the start then adding pivot speed in to the ball. Took my brain a while to get used to it and re-learn where to add the speed.

[TheDeanAbides]

28 minutes ago, Golfbeat said:

 

How is this working for yourself? What is the development of your own handicap over the last two years and what is it at the moment? Could you show us your swing? Thanks for giving some legitimacy for all the theoretical knowledge you volunteer in this thread.

I guess you’re not up with current events. I had to give up playing completely due to disability. 

[Golfbeat]

3 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I guess you’re not up with current events. I had to give up playing completely due to disability. 

 

Correct, I was not aware of that. Sorry to hear that.

[TheDeanAbides]

16 minutes ago, Golfbeat said:

 

Correct, I was not aware of that. Sorry to hear that.

Thanks. The reason I rarely if ever talk about my cap is that I never had an official one and spent the past 20 years with huge periods where I couldn’t play at all. When I could I had to battle debilitating fatigue that made my 18 hole rounds a mess because it would hit me like a train. 
 

My condition also made reading putts a lottery as it made the ground appear to be moving most of the time. 

 

 Anyway, sob story over - it is what it is. I used to shoot low to mid 70s 70% of the time when I was fitter, but I wish I had the swing that I have now and can’t use during those years or the health I had then with this swing.

 

 Before I quit I would shoot around par for nine, which is all I could manage. 
 

I just try and help out a few friends and people here to stay connected to the game. 

Edited July 25, 2022 by TheDeanAbides

[games]

11 hours ago, PGA SOMEDAY said:

How many have lost speed while working on the NTC? I lost about 5mph on my 7i and closer to 10mph on my driver. That said, I am hitting it a bit more solid with this, I just feel like I can’t go after it quite as much. Maybe that’ll come back once I’m more comfortable with the moves?

 

If you look back to Monte's initial thoughts on this thread, he's clear that this takes time to ingrain.  And, just doing it for a week or two and expecting miracles is not realistic.  Early on, I was thinking "insert Tab A into Slot B."  And, that slows everything down...

 

One major flaw that slows me down is failure to get my hands to the proper depth.  It's pure laziness.  But, that's the setup to Cast A and Cast B.  Also, initially, the separation of Cast A and Cast B slowed me down.  Learning proper wrist movement helped me to make transition between the casts easier.  I believe that is where I picked up the most speed (about 5 mph clubhead across the bag).

[Corona King]

On 7/24/2022 at 4:30 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

Could be anything. Post a swing

 

 

[dannygrz]

Loving this series so far and have seen some good results. 
 

However, I’ve been getting a lot of hits off the toe. Currently doing Cast A. Any ideas? I used to be a major heel striker 

[MonteScheinblum]

3 hours ago, dannygrz said:

Loving this series so far and have seen some good results. 
 

However, I’ve been getting a lot of hits off the toe. Currently doing Cast A. Any ideas? I used to be a major heel striker 

Flatter shaft tends to create toe hits.  Just need an adjustment period.

[bcc624]

On 7/22/2022 at 12:26 PM, ThePaineTrain said:

After 2 range sessions this week, took NTC to the course for 9 this morning. Driver and woods were not good at all, but at least my miss was a 100 yard topspin smash in play vs my usual miss of a 200 yard snap hook into the woods. The tee box dinks set me up for my newfound 5 iron consistency, either on or close on most par 4s despite taking my 2nd from 200 yards out.

 

My playing partner said he thought I was standing a little far from the ball on drives, which I had been consciously doing since my miss at the range with the new cast motion was to sweep too low and pop it off the crown. At least in my range sessions I'd get 2 or 3 solid hits eventually, just wasn't finding anything on the course today.

Not 100% sure what you mean by it, but you don’t bring NTC to the course. NTC is something you are working on, off the course. You should let your practice and and habits naturally takeover on the course. Some people early in this thread were capable of having the cast a swing thought on the course with success, but I would imagine most people will struggle if they try that. I’m almost 2 years into the wrist movements on Cast A and I will probably be working on the movement for eternity. That doesn’t mean I’ve been working on that move every day for 2 years. While working on proper shift and syncing arms with body for last 6+ months, Monte spotted that my club head was working out early on downswing.  Back to improving the wrist movements now.

 

 

[ThePaineTrain]

1 hour ago, bcc624 said:

Not 100% sure what you mean by it, but you don’t bring NTC to the course. NTC is something you are working on, off the course. You should let your practice and and habits naturally takeover on the course. Some people early in this thread were capable of having the cast a swing thought on the course with success, but I would imagine most people will struggle if they try that. I’m almost 2 years into the wrist movements on Cast A and I will probably be working on the movement for eternity. That doesn’t mean I’ve been working on that move every day for 2 years. While working on proper shift and syncing arms with body for last 6+ months, Monte spotted that my club head was working out early on downswing.  Back to improving the wrist movements now.

 

 

Well for my (limited) experience, I was working on reducing the cacophony of in-round swing thoughts in my head to just NTC, not really trying to score or expecting a lot. The initial results of that were some nice shots with my irons and some not so nice shots off the tee with any club.

 

I've put in a few more range sessions and worked on the details and it's coming together. I think on the tee box and with driver at the range, I tend to still get carried away trying to hit up or hit "hard" which messes with my transition pressure shift which cascades to me rolling the wrists but that's just a matter of ingraining the feels at the range. At the beginning of the season, my backswing ended with the clubhead pointing way over my front shoulder to 1 o'clock and the butt of the shaft pointing to like 7:30, so I've definitely improved my takeaway. I knew I was supposed to "shallow the club" and had a couple sessions with a pro who tried to fix my swing, but the "no turn" instruction worked a lot quicker and more repeatably than analyzing my swing video and trying to hit a specific position.

[MK7Golf21]

21 hours ago, dannygrz said:

Loving this series so far and have seen some good results. 
 

However, I’ve been getting a lot of hits off the toe. Currently doing Cast A. Any ideas? I used to be a major heel striker 

It’s because your AoA is too shallow, you are dumped way under. clubhead low point is back and starts exiting left towards impact so it’s hit more on the toe. Kind of a pull shot because toe is whipping around 

 

You are doing an exaggerated drill so more than likely won’t be like that in real swing. 

Edited July 31, 2022 by MK7Golf21

[Corona King]

On 7/24/2022 at 12:28 AM, Corona King said:

Has anyone doing the NTC run into consistent slices/fades? Using Trackman I repeatedly see this, where the club face is open at impact and the club path is left.  Not sure how to fix, or what this indicates I am not doing right. Has anyone had this issue and fixed it, and if so, how?

 

 

 

To answer my own question if anyone else working on NTC runs into this issue, the fades were caused by me not revving the left wrist on cast A. Once I made that my only swing thought, the fades stopped and I started puring it. As Monte says, a very unnatural feeling initially. 

[JetPilot]

On 7/19/2022 at 9:06 PM, Trippels said:

 

I had been a little off with my ball striking....but something in here clicked.  I think getting the club below the hands coming down.  Spectacular.  Amazing how one little thing can get you back on track.

[ThePaineTrain]

Based on my past 4 range trips over the last week, I think my NTC driver issues are being caused by not setting the wrists as sharply before transition as I do with the irons. When I feel like I'm swinging the driver exactly like my irons, I'm hitting a huge pull hook or completely failing to get the ball off the ground. Maybe it's due to the length of the club or the difference in where the center of gravity is compared to irons.

 

I've found when I take a longer backswing OR do the no-turn backswing but actively force the wrists to radially deviate earlier I can actually hit the ball again, with mishits resulting in a slice, instead of the smothered mishit that carries 20 yards into the dirt. The longer backswing gives me more time to set the wrists, but I'm primarily working on getting the correct feeling down and "forcing" it earlier. I'm currently doing Monte's drill where you hinge the wrists, rotate the arms, and turn, to get into the top of the backswing, and swinging from this setup rarely results in a pull hook so I think I'm on the right track, just need to figure out how to integrate the wrist hinge in a real backswing.