Lido - Wisconsin course from Michael Keiser

[JMO TO]

I was listening to the Erik Anders Lang podcast with Mike Keiser, and he mentioned that his son was building the Lido with Doak.

 

 

 

Article below posits that it will be a private course which seems to really go against the Dream Golf model.

https://wiscogolfaddict.com/2020/08/24/sv_mammothdunes/#comments

 

Does anyone have any intel or insights?

[JMO TO]

Found this as well. Limited public play on some days:

 

https://romewi.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/LIDO-PUD-PLAN-DRAFT-2020-11-2.pdf

 

[geochitown]

Nice find!  Thanks for sharing 

[Chanceman]

As an aside, and being a pedant, I notice that the report states that the original Lido was decommissioned in 1940 to provide land for the US Navy during the "Great War". That is a misnomer as the period 1939-40 was broadly known in the west as World War II or the Second World War. The Great War would generally refer to World War I from 1914-18.

[ode]

Is the land on the current sand Valley property.....article says nearby...not sure if it is in a different site altogether 

[geochitown]

It’s immediately south of arrowhead golf course 

 

I think it’s part of the sand valley property but away from other courses?

[geochitown]

There is a map in the PUD linked above. Sheet 2

 

looka to be just north of Sand valley courses with arrowhead on the east and north 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by geochitown
Added screenshot of map

[takito24]

The course is going to be right across the road from the current SV entrance. Saw the email and some computer generated pictures they were sending to potential members and it looks like it will be incredible!

Edited December 21, 2020 by takito24
Left out a word

[Phreddy]

Reading about the history of the Long Island Lido course designed by CB McDonald with an 18th hole owing a debt to Alister MacKenzie is pretty good stuff.  #4, a 510 yard par 5, was thought by many to be the finest golf hole in the world.

[ldchristopher]

I went to high school with Keiser’s son and was on the golf team with him at Ignatius. Nice guy from Lincoln Park. Pretty good golfer. You’d never know his dad was a billionaire, though back then he might have been a multi-millionaire. Anyway, Mike preferred playing the Dunes Club to some of his dad’s more prominent 18 hole courses (though this was in the late 90’s before his dad owned places like Banden). It fits that Mike Jr. would be building a private club rather than something open to the public. 

[Symphonize]

This Lido project looks really cool. Can’t wait to follow it even if I won’t be able to play it. 
 

Speaking of Dunes Club, does anyone know much about it? I drove by it (not that you can see any of it) a few months ago and was reading up on it, it sounds like an amazing course. I understand it’s private and exclusive, is it like Augusta exclusive or is it like a good club pro can call and get you on exclusive? 

[geochitown]

Listen to the interview and you’ll get a nice surprise about accessibility to the Dunes Club

 

 

[Mustard_Tiger]

Who exactly would become a member of a private golf club that's in the middle of nowhere? Is it millionaires/billionaires who think nothing of paying year round to belong to club they might play a couple of times a year? Are there a lot of clubs with that business model?

 

I'm asking because I seriously have no idea.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Mustard_Tiger

[Phreddy]

When Mike did the Sand Valley project he didn't do it all out of pocket.  He recruited some people to put up a meaningful chunk of change to be founders (I believe their names are listed on the wall at SV).  They don't pay greens fees for life, get preferred tee times and other access amenities.  I would guess the Lido project is along the same lines.  Put up a chunk of cash, buy a house on the course or something similar and get preferred treatment.  There is more than enough money in Chicago, Milwaukee and Minneapolis to make a golf-get-away property interesting for business, family and friends.  There will be limited public play on Lido.

 

Phred

[geochitown]

10 hours ago, Mustard_Tiger said:

Who exactly would become a member of a private golf club that's in the middle of nowhere? Is it millionaires/billionaires who think nothing of paying year round to belong to club they might play a couple of times a year? Are there a lot of clubs with that business model?

 

I'm asking because I seriously have no idea.

one only has to look to Sand Hills and Ballyneal for examples of remote private clubs 

 

 

 

 

[Mustard_Tiger]

4 hours ago, geochitown said:

one only has to look to Sand Hills and Ballyneal for examples of remote private clubs 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I'm guessing their membership consists of the type of golfer I described? Millionaires/billionaires who are happy to pay year round for a club they use a few times a year?

 

Must be nice.

[Schley]

19 hours ago, Phreddy said:

When Mike did the Sand Valley project he didn't do it all out of pocket.  He recruited some people to put up a meaningful chunk of change to be founders (I believe their names are listed on the wall at SV).  They don't pay greens fees for life, get preferred tee times and other access amenities.  I would guess the Lido project is along the same lines.  Put up a chunk of cash, buy a house on the course or something similar and get preferred treatment.  There is more than enough money in Chicago, Milwaukee and Minneapolis to make a golf-get-away property interesting for business, family and friends.  There will be limited public play on Lido.

 

Phred

Correct the founders I think put up 50k and get the benefits you mentioned for a public course. 

 

The Lido course is actually I believe the same, but private so putting up 50k initiation is expected for a private.  yearly dues are needed, but I believe two things that really make it attractive are:

1. There are no guest fees, you can take 3 guests to golf every time you are there.

2. I believe it may include your parents as members, which Ballyneal does and first time I have heard that, but works well. Keep in mind I don’t think they will have carts at Lido. Maybe a couple for ADA compliance, but with Sand VAlley walking only, I can’t imagine carts at Lido.

 

I love the Lido course and believe Doak will put it back as close as possible to the original, which definitely interests me.

[ode]

Not sure if this is legit, but some interesting discussion on this thread:

 

https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35406.0/wap2.html

[ode]

I did not realize there is a Lido (by RTJ) in existence, not far from the original.  So there will be two Lido's🤔

 

Having played SV/MD, I was in awe of the surroundings, all that sand!  That will be easy to recreate, but what about the Atlantic?  Is that not an important aspect of recreating the original?

[geochitown]

I don't think it’s that easy to get good coastal linksland these days 

 

There is so much land available at Sand Valley like you mentioned, all that sand

 

i think the lack of ocean frontage is easily forgiven

 

especially for those that are interested in Doak’s work in getting a Lido on the ground

 

Gil Hanse is also working on a Lido inspired course in Thailand, but "Lido" is not in the name 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by geochitown
corrected typo's

[geochitown]

That gca thread is cool because there has been a lot of work done by people there to rebuild the Lido on a computer platform which will then be used to generate the first round of construction drawings 

Edited January 9, 2021 by geochitown

[ode]

Pretty cool to see Doak post about some of the inspiration for a hole at Old Macdonald coming from Lido.  That thread (or some of it) predates Old Macdonald.

Edited December 29, 2020 by ode

[geochitown]

2 hours ago, ode said:

Pretty cool to see Doak post about some of the inspiration for a hole at Old Macdonald coming from Lido.  That thread (or some of it) predates Old Macdonald.

 

Right.  Thanks for mentioning that.  I just went back and read it.

 

Seems like the used 4th hole at Lido for the 17th at OM.

 

The late George Bahto was a big part of Old Macdonald.

I think the design team was Doak/Urbina and consultants George Bahto (author of Charles Blair MacDonald book, "The Evangelist of Golf" and Bradley S Klein), and of course Mike Keiser as a "Kaiser" of sorts.

 

Just paraphrasing what I read in the book Dream Golf.

Edited December 29, 2020 by geochitown

[Dancin]

On 12/27/2020 at 3:11 PM, Mustard_Tiger said:

 

 

So I'm guessing their membership consists of the type of golfer I described? Millionaires/billionaires who are happy to pay year round for a club they use a few times a year?

 

Must be nice.

Actually no. National membership dues are extremely cheap. Most of those that have a second club membership are doing well, but are not millionaires. Ballyneal actually went bankrupt because the original owner thought there were enough people willing to pay outrageous sums for a remote club they would only use 2-3 times a year, but didn't even get to 100 members which wasn't enough to support the club. The new owner dropped the rates and quickly filled the membership in a few years to where they now have a 2-3 year waiting list.

There is tremendous competition among golf clubs for national members and if you aren't in a 12 month season, you need to price yourself appropriately. Prairie Dunes is another one with very reasonable national member dues. Most of the members do belong to a local club and the national club dues are a tiny fraction of what they pay for the local clubs they belong to. That allows them to spend a few extended weekends with their buddies at a top 100 world course where they know they'll be able to play in 3.5 hours or less and there won't be more than 50 or so golfers on site the whole time they are there (and much less most weekends). There are also quite a few members who do not belong to a local club, but have a national membership. It's cheaper than booking 2-3 trips a year to a place like Bandon in high season and you get the private club experience on a top course with faster rounds and a lot less people around.

[ode]

Just received email from Sand Valley re status update on Lido....website created, etc., with flyovers and more info.  According to FAQ, limited public play available to SV resort guests only. Opening in 2023.

 

https://thelido.com/?mc_cid=c331bd378a&mc_eid=655d46e5bf

Edited January 18, 2021 by ode

[ode]

Also, for those "in the know"....does this have any implications on Doak's course at SV?

[geochitown]

I don't think it does.

I'm not in the know, but that's my opinion.

I think the funding for both courses are independent of each other.

 

I may be stated the obvious, but construction was started on Doak's SV Resort course which is Sedge Valley, and halted because of COVID.

 

Not sure on status of the Lido, but that's a private club with what I believe would be separate funding.

[geochitown]

Great question though as the Lido has come to the fore in terms of marketing and buzz.

 

So, maybe Sedge Valley sits in its current state for a while, or...

 

maybe having Doak's crew working on the Lido means that they can also do work at Sedge Valley?

 

[Chanceman]

Those pictures on the website are literally fantastic - must be computer generated, so wondering if Doak is following that as his actual model or is it just a nerdy and impractical  interpretation maybe from the original plans. Anyone have an insight?

[geochitown]

The original Lido course has been re-created on a computer design platform, and that is the source for the design drawings...

Edited January 18, 2021 by geochitown