Korn Ferry Tour Players and PGA Tour Status

[Holy Moses]

I was reading this Golf Digest article on this week’s Puerto Rico Open and older players filling out the field. Where does a mid-ranked Korn Ferry Tour player rank in status compared to a PGA Tour player outside the top-125? A former PGA Tour player that has racked up enough career cuts will have more status in an opposite field event than someone on the Korn Ferry Tour?

“Which raises a question: Shouldn’t these spots be used on Korn Ferry Tour players, a platform to showcase fledgling talent, instead of those no longer active? Sources associated with tournaments contend that that opportunity already exists in the form of sponsor’s exemptions, and that it would be wrong for the Tour to turn its back on its long-term members.”

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/golfs-purgatory-life-after-40-on-the-pga-tour/amp

Edited February 27, 2021 by Holy Moses

[MattyO1984]

Definitely an interesting one - there are some guys playing their this week whose name I have not seen come up for sometime. That said, I guess these guys should still have the opportunity to tee it up.

[golfandfishing]

Players with some status on the Pga Tour - veteran player, past winner, 125-150 FedEx Cup, etc should absolutely hold priority over players with zero Pga Tour status. 

[Creedo77]

3 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

I was reading this Golf Digest article on this week’s Puerto Rico Open and older players filling out the field. Where does a mid-ranked Korn Ferry Tour player rank in status compared to a PGA Tour player outside the top-125? A former PGA Tour player that has racked up enough career cuts will have more status in an opposite field event than someone on the Korn Ferry Tour?

“Which raises a question: Shouldn’t these spots be used on Korn Ferry Tour players, a platform to showcase fledgling talent, instead of those no longer active? Sources associated with tournaments contend that that opportunity already exists in the form of sponsor’s exemptions, and that it would be wrong for the Tour to turn its back on its long-term members.”

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/golfs-purgatory-life-after-40-on-the-pga-tour/amp

Well the opposite field events this year are unique because due to no cards being given out on the KFT last year the top 10 on the money list will be playing in those events. Those opportunities havent happened before, unless those KFT players in the past have got in on sponsor invites or Monday qualifying. I work out on the KFT and I'm not surprised in the slightest in seeing Brandon Wu competing to win, he had no status anywhere as of last July and won in under 10 starts on the KFT. He will be a name that people will become very familiar with in years to come, along with a couple other guys that will be graduating from the tour this year. The other 9 guys in the field this week are all great players, and I don't see them losing their cards next year when they're on Tour. 

 

In terms of priority, past winners on the PGA Tour and guys who have made X amount of cuts, or earned X amount of money definitely deserve their place in these fields. The studs from the KFT will be on the PGA Tour in no time so I don't foresee them missing out on opportunities. 

 

The bigger issue I have is the sponsor invites that players representative pay for based on the money/groups that they'll bring in for the Pro-Am or other ways to support the sponsor. 

[Creedo77]

1 hour ago, golfandfishing said:

Players with some status on the Pga Tour - veteran player, past winner, 125-150 FedEx Cup, etc should absolutely hold priority over players with zero Pga Tour status. 

I'm just curious since we share a similar point of view. In terms of these past PGA Tour players, should they be allowed to play down in the KFT? Some guys in their 40s are stuck right now because they're waiting to turn 50 to get on the Champs tour, but should they take places from alternate who are vying for any opportunity they can get? The phrase "player better" springs to mind but in some cases it sucks to see guys with KFT status, but get bumped from events from time to time because of this. 

[Creedo77]

I'll drop this from MondayQinfo via twitter

 

"Cameron Percy got his Tour card 12 years after turning pro. He hasn't been in top 125 in his career. Holding conditional status 9 yrs. Never knowing when his next start will come. At age 46, 23 years into his pro career, imagine what a 1st win would mean, he leads in PR"

 

He's in contention right now in PR and even for a guy at his age would be huge for his career. 

[Holy Moses]

Does a top-10 get you in the next event if the event is an opposite field event?

[golfandfishing]

1 hour ago, Creedo77 said:

I'm just curious since we share a similar point of view. In terms of these past PGA Tour players, should they be allowed to play down in the KFT? Some guys in their 40s are stuck right now because they're waiting to turn 50 to get on the Champs tour, but should they take places from alternate who are vying for any opportunity they can get? The phrase "player better" springs to mind but in some cases it sucks to see guys with KFT status, but get bumped from events from time to time because of this. 

The tour decides the priority of exempt players. If a partially exempt 47 year old wants to play a KF event and his priority is higher than some 23 year old also with some type of partial status then that’s how it goes. The guy higher on the priority list gets in, age is not a factor. 

[Ironman_32]

19 hours ago, Creedo77 said:

I'm just curious since we share a similar point of view. In terms of these past PGA Tour players, should they be allowed to play down in the KFT? Some guys in their 40s are stuck right now because they're waiting to turn 50 to get on the Champs tour, but should they take places from alternate who are vying for any opportunity they can get? The phrase "player better" springs to mind but in some cases it sucks to see guys with KFT status, but get bumped from events from time to time because of this. 

That's both sides of the coin right. Veterans and new guys both could solve things by playing better. 

 

It's just interesting to see how some guys got in the PR field. Not to cherry pick, but I looked at two guys, Mark Hensby and Daniel Chopra. Both older guys, but names. Hensbay hasn't played a PGA tour event since 2018, hasn't made a cut since 2017. Chopra has played like 6 events the past handful of years, hasn't made more than 3 cuts a year. I guess in my head, its a certain point of, as much as the tour talks about "growing the game" and all this stuff, couldn't they get some younger, fresher faces that have the potential to be future stars than guys just trying to turn 50?

[Creedo77]

17 minutes ago, Ironman_32 said:

That's both sides of the coin right. Veterans and new guys both could solve things by playing better. 

 

It's just interesting to see how some guys got in the PR field. Not to cherry pick, but I looked at two guys, Mark Hensby and Daniel Chopra. Both older guys, but names. Hensbay hasn't played a PGA tour event since 2018, hasn't made a cut since 2017. Chopra has played like 6 events the past handful of years, hasn't made more than 3 cuts a year. I guess in my head, its a certain point of, as much as the tour talks about "growing the game" and all this stuff, couldn't they get some younger, fresher faces that have the potential to be future stars than guys just trying to turn 50?

Allowing those 10 KFT players has brought a couple of those “fresh faces”. These opposite fields events will always bring some older guys into the fields tho based on their past performances and the fact that guys making big checks every week don’t want to go there or are playing in the WGC. 
 

Hensby is at that stage where he’s waiting to get to the Champions Tour so has no real place to play. He played in the KFT event in FL last week in the 48-49 category so I can sympathize with his situation (great guy too). 
 

I think overall the older guys have been there and done it and once you’re about 45 and have had a decent amount of success on tour you’re basically waiting 5 years to be playing every week on the Champions Tour 

[golfortennis]

21 hours ago, Creedo77 said:

The bigger issue I have is the sponsor invites that players representative pay for based on the money/groups that they'll bring in for the Pro-Am or other ways to support the sponsor. 

 

I know you can't name names but could you expand on this?  This is quite....interesting.

[Creedo77]

49 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

I know you can't name names but could you expand on this?  This is quite....interesting.

Theres a company out there who basically buy spots for the players they bankroll. It happens more on the KFT than the PGA, but theres at least 1 player in Puerto Rico this week who has a sponsor that most likely paid for his spot in order for him to play in it. I'm not sure what the guarantees are from that players sponsor or $ guaranteed but it happens most weeks in pro golf (more so on the KFT).

 

In regards to pro-am groups, a player who I've talked to on the KFT who had limited status last season told me that he was trying to gather 2/3 groups to play in the pro-am in an international event and that he was going to bring in say $15,000 towards the event. The sponsor of the event told him that there were players bringing in 20k+ towards the event, there was no way he was going to get an invite based on that. Money talks when it comes to pleasing sponsors who have put down X amount to sponsor that event and want to get a return on the money they've invested.

[golfortennis]

2 minutes ago, Creedo77 said:

Theres a company out there who basically buy spots for the players they bankroll. It happens more on the KFT than the PGA, but theres at least 1 player in Puerto Rico this week who has a sponsor that most likely paid for his spot in order for him to play in it. I'm not sure what the guarantees are from that players sponsor or $ guaranteed but it happens most weeks in pro golf (more so on the KFT).

 

In regards to pro-am groups, a player who I've talked to on the KFT who had limited status last season told me that he was trying to gather 2/3 groups to play in the pro-am in an international event and that he was going to bring in say $15,000 towards the event. The sponsor of the event told him that there were players bringing in 20k+ towards the event, there was no way he was going to get an invite based on that. Money talks when it comes to pleasing sponsors who have put down X amount to sponsor that event and want to get a return on the money they've invested.

 

Wow.  I know money talks.  I guess my question would then be how exactly that works from the sponsor perspective.

 

Say Acme sponsors a tournament.  A player is sponsored by Smithers Co.  Is Smithers paying to get the player into Acme's tournament?  Or is Acme doing so with a player they sponsor?  And how is Acme getting the ROI if the event is 501(c)?  I'm not challenging you, I'm just trying to get my head around how this works.  

[Creedo77]

12 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

Wow.  I know money talks.  I guess my question would then be how exactly that works from the sponsor perspective.

 

Say Acme sponsors a tournament.  A player is sponsored by Smithers Co.  Is Smithers paying to get the player into Acme's tournament?  Or is Acme doing so with a player they sponsor?  And how is Acme getting the ROI if the event is 501(c)?  I'm not challenging you, I'm just trying to get my head around how this works.  

Not really sure how the sponsor weighs up the different players vying for a spot. It could be a case of agents talking up their player(s) ability. Some players who may have temporary status who need starts might have an advantage over other players, but again thats where the money could come into play. 

 

In terms of sponsor v sponsor, if you take a look at the AP next week. Sneds, Poults, and McDowell are all on sponsor invites, because they rep MasterCard which is the main sponsor of the event. I think the comparison you're using is more seen on the KFT where sponsors are much smaller and not as prominent. Could also be tied into the tournament director and how much $ they're looking to make off those who are paying for invites. I'm not trying to make it seem like this is a week to week occurrence, but I've seen similar names on sponsor invites the last 3 years and know who has big money backing them. 

 

In another case, Brandon Wu had no status anywhere this time last year. He got covid before a sponsor invite last summer in a KFT event, and 2 weeks later was given a spot (which is fair based on him getting covid), he almost won that event. 10 events later he had a win, played in the US Open (based on $ standing on KFT), in the top 10 on the KFT points list and competing to win in Puerto Rico. Good players with high pedigrees out of college will always get spots, because the reality is that they're likely going to be on the PGA Tour at some point in the near future. 

[golfortennis]

8 minutes ago, Creedo77 said:

Not really sure how the sponsor weighs up the different players vying for a spot. It could be a case of agents talking up their player(s) ability. Some players who may have temporary status who need starts might have an advantage over other players, but again thats where the money could come into play. 

 

In terms of sponsor v sponsor, if you take a look at the AP next week. Sneds, Poults, and McDowell are all on sponsor invites, because they rep MasterCard which is the main sponsor of the event. I think the comparison you're using is more seen on the KFT where sponsors are much smaller and not as prominent. Could also be tied into the tournament director and how much $ they're looking to make off those who are paying for invites. I'm not trying to make it seem like this is a week to week occurrence, but I've seen similar names on sponsor invites the last 3 years and know who has big money backing them. 

 

In another case, Brandon Wu had no status anywhere this time last year. He got covid before a sponsor invite last summer in a KFT event, and 2 weeks later was given a spot (which is fair based on him getting covid), he almost won that event. 10 events later he had a win, played in the US Open (based on $ standing on KFT), in the top 10 on the KFT points list and competing to win in Puerto Rico. Good players with high pedigrees out of college will always get spots, because the reality is that they're likely going to be on the PGA Tour at some point in the near future. 

 

Hmmm.  Yeah I always thought the sponsoring players was a bit of a way around the appearance fee rules on the big tour.  Interesting about the TD.  Sounding more and more like even tournaments fit the "it's not-for-taxes, not not-for-profit."  

 

At least Forumla 1 it's no secret who is paying to drive the car.

 

[Creedo77]

2 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

Hmmm.  Yeah I always thought the sponsoring players was a bit of a way around the appearance fee rules on the big tour.  Interesting about the TD.  Sounding more and more like even tournaments fit the "it's not-for-taxes, not not-for-profit."  

 

At least Forumla 1 it's no secret who is paying to drive the car.

 

In defense of the TDs, the sponsors for tournaments outside of the PGA Tour are much smaller. They need all the $ they can get 

[golfortennis]

33 minutes ago, Creedo77 said:

In defense of the TDs, the sponsors for tournaments outside of the PGA Tour are much smaller. They need all the $ they can get 

 

Well as long as the money is going into purses.  Too many mini-tours where the tour director is the leading money winner!

[Creedo77]

32 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

Well as long as the money is going into purses.  Too many mini-tours where the tour director is the leading money winner!

Ha! Ive heard about it. That’s not the case on PGA sanctioned tours