what is normal smash factor with irons

[Glenn Salongo]

My smash factor with 6 iron is 1.26. Is that good or should I get a custom fit and change shaft?

 

I swing my 6 iron 95 mph flat out, but normal approach shot is about 90 mph.

 

I play 716 AP2 at D2 SW with TT AMT Black S300. They are bent flat, but otherwise all standard spec.

 

Please share your smash factor and give me a suggestion.

[basTide]

Image came from this website which also has a calculator for club distance to swing speed.

 

https://destination-golf.com/ball-speed-swing-speed-calculator/

[basTide]

Smash factor is a measure of energy transfer between club to ball with a driver this would ideally be 1.50 but as loft increases this becomes more difficult of a number to hit. Without looking at your swing I’d say for your swing speed I’d guess 1.26 is pretty decent it really just depends on your ball striking and swing mechanics but the best option is to always get professionally fit to maximize what you already have for every club.

[Glenn Salongo]

Great table! So I can get about 5 mph higher ball speed with proper fit 6 iron (assuming my mechanics have no negative impact 🤨 ).

 

I forgot to mention that I measured smash factor with range balls.

[Drivingrangehero]

4 hours ago, Glenn Salongo said:

Great table! So I can get about 5 mph higher ball speed with proper fit 6 iron (assuming my mechanics have no negative impact 🤨 ).

 

I forgot to mention that I measured smash factor with range balls.

What device were you using to measure? 

Trackman and GC Quad will give you different numbers due to the way they measure. 
 

Not sure how much of a difference being I’ve hit on GC Quad a lot more.  Ive only been on Trackman a couple of times, but with a Driver on Trackman I hit many at 1.49  and have hit 1.51 which I thought was not possible. On GC Quad I never see those numbers. I see a lot of 1.43’s. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything above 1.45 or 1.46 on the GC Quad and that’s with premium balls (Bridgestone BX on the GC quad and Pro V1x on Trackman)
 

I can’t comment on range balls giving different numbers for smash factor, but interested in peoples answers. 

[Dbol87]

I had the same question a few weeks back, as I went through a spurt when I picked up my clubs this February of hitting the ball real high, and noticed my smash factors were really low (like 1.2 range). Long story short, based on a lot of math, I found out smash factor declines with increases in loft. So if you de-loft the club a lot (i.e deliver loft is low) you’ll have smash factors in the 1.4 range for many of your irons. If you deliver the club perpendicular to the club, less so. I was closer to your stated 6 iron smash factor.

 

So to answer your question, with a 6 iron a smash factor of 1.2 could mean 1. Missing the sweet spot or 2. Not delofting the club or 3. The not helpful answer of some other random quirk causing issues (like the trackman comment above). The first two will give you pretty cruddy contact feel and well, the third, golf is a funny wonderful and  infuriating game not much I can do for you there; happy hunting/problem solving

 

If your interested in the science this guy site did a pretty good job of explaining it. https://www.tutelman.com/golf/ballflight/smashfactor.php

[HSTNGolfer]

8 hours ago, Glenn Salongo said:

My smash factor with 6 iron is 1.26. Is that good or should I get a custom fit and change shaft?

 

I swing my 6 iron 95 mph flat out, but normal approach shot is about 90 mph.

 

I play 716 AP2 at D2 SW with TT AMT Black S300. They are bent flat, but otherwise all standard spec.

 

Please share your smash factor and give me a suggestion.

If the 1.26 smash number is correct then club head or shaft is not the problem. The quality of impact looks to be the issue. Titleist AP2 with 30 deg loft on the 6i should be giving you smash factors in the range of 1.36-1.40 depending on how much you deloft the club at impact, angle of attack and face-to-path angle. AMT Black S300 might be too light or soft in flex for your swing speed, but working on better impact will bring much better results than an equipment change.

 

Here are the Tour averages from Trackman

https://blog.trackmangolf.com/trackman-average-tour-stats/

 

My swing speed is almost exactly like the LPGA tour average. I recently had access to Trackman for several hours and the numbers with all my irons were very close to those shown in the LPGA table. With your swing speed and good ball first contact, descending angle of attack and square face angle, your numbers should be closer to those in the PGA tour chart.

Edited March 26, 2021 by HSTNGolfer

[Stuart_G]

8 hours ago, Glenn Salongo said:

My smash factor with 6 iron is 1.26. Is that good or should I get a custom fit and change shaft?

 

I swing my 6 iron 95 mph flat out, but normal approach shot is about 90 mph.

 

I play 716 AP2 at D2 SW with TT AMT Black S300. They are bent flat, but otherwise all standard spec.

 

Please share your smash factor and give me a suggestion.

 

Sorry, but no table is going to tell you what it should be for irons or whether your numbers are 'good' or 'bad'.   What you can get will depend a lot on your mechanics (as well as the static lofts of the club).  Assuming that the face-path is where you want it and the face impact location is good - smash factor will increase as the dynamic loft delivered goes down or decrease as it goes up.   There is no real optimum or ideal number.   It's really just a reflection of the swing.

 

So NEVER use any table or averages of that smash factor to make equipment or fitting decisions.   ESPECIALLY the chart of tour averages that TM put out a long time ago.

 

In terms of equipment fitting, the important things to look at is the consistency of the number and to use something like impact tape or foot powder spray to check the quality and consistency of the face impact.    And as far as the delivery of the club goes, the launch/spin and (really) the resulting distance and decent angle is what you should be looking at, not the smash factor.   Face-to-path and how the equipment influences that can be useful sometimes as well.

 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Stuart_G

[HSTNGolfer]

8 hours ago, Glenn Salongo said:

Great table! So I can get about 5 mph higher ball speed with proper fit 6 iron (assuming my mechanics have no negative impact 🤨 ).

 

I forgot to mention that I measured smash factor with range balls.

No, you could potentially get 10 mph more ball speed at 90 mph club head speed at 30 degrees of loft. BUT most likely not from a different clubhead (with the same loft) or different shaft. It is all about the efficiency of the transfer of club speed (you have loads of that already) to ball speed. A smash factor of 1.26 with 30 deg loft is a sign of a very inefficient strike. As @Stuart_G states above, it is all about the quality and consistency of the face impact, coupled with hitting the ball first then the turf, dynamic loft at impact (delofted or scooped), club path (in-to-out or out-to-in), face-to-path angle (closed or open club face relative to swing path), and angle of attack (hitting down on the ball or up on it). 

 

What was the range of smash factors that you saw? Consistently around 1.26 or varying a lot, say from 1.13 to 1.39? Foot powder spray on the clubface will tell you how consistently you fit the center of the clubface, the ball flight (height, initial direction and curve) gives insight into the dynamic loft, path and side spin. 

https://intheroughgolf.com/golf-ball-flight-laws/

 

[Tree Levino]

That’s not just fit. That is an extremely inefficient strike as others have said. I’d throttle it back and work with a coach to figure out what’s going on. Would be good to see some club head data. 

[SylvesterLundgren]

When I did this gap fitting, I hadn’t swung a club in 3weeks and I just got done driving when I arrived. As I got through the bag I was shaking the rust off. These were with my Nike Vr forged pro combo but I have the same clubs as you with the amt whites. 
like others have said, it’ll probably serve you to practice your strike contact with a teacher or with some good drills. 

[hoganfan924]

I had a very surprising result in my fitting on Monday with 6 iron.  I got some crazy high SF's with both my current gamers (1.44 avg.) and the Epon af-305 I hit best (1.46 avg).  I think part of the issue is how Trackman reads CHS vs. how GC Quad does, as earlier in the year, my SF with 7 iron on GCQ was around 1.33 max (I have gotten better with better wrist conditions & shaft lean since then), with 86 mph CHS.  My understanding (I could be mistaken) is that GCQ reads CHS at the moment of initial ball contact, and TM does it at maximum ball compression (when some CHS speed is already lost to compressing the ball).  Here's the 6 iron numbers w/Epon af-305.  Really left me scratching my head as to how SF can be this high with a 6 iron.  Just doesn't seem plausible, but maybe the measurement method is the cause.  Attack angle was about 2.5-3 deg. down.  Total distance was based on hitting to a fairway, not green.  6 iron loft on these is 29 deg.:

Edited May 6, 2021 by hoganfan924
added information

[mgoblue83]

27 minutes ago, hoganfan924 said:

I had a very surprising result in my fitting on Monday with 6 iron.  I got some crazy high SF's with both my current gamers (1.44 avg.) and the Epon af-305 I hit best (1.46 avg).  I think part of the issue is how Trackman reads CHS vs. how GC Quad does, as earlier in the year, my SF with 7 iron on GCQ was around 1.33 max (I have gotten better with better wrist conditions & shaft lean since then), with 86 mph CHS.  My understanding (I could be mistaken) is that GCQ reads CHS at the moment of initial ball contact, and TM does it at maximum ball compression (when some CHS speed is already lost to compressing the ball).  Here's the 6 iron numbers w/Epon af-305.  Really left me scratching my head as to how SF can be this high with a 6 iron.  Just doesn't seem plausible, but maybe the measurement method is the cause.  Attack angle was about 2.5-3 deg. down.  Total distance was based on hitting to a fairway, not green.  6 iron loft on these is 29 deg.:

 

Not too surprising as both units measure CHS differently and smash factor is just a calculation (not measured). 

 

Quad will always report higher club head speed (and lower smash factor) than Trackman because it measures the fastest part of the club (usually Toe) while Trackman measures the geometric center (slightly behind the face).

[Trap Junior]

On 3/26/2021 at 1:13 PM, Stuart_G said:

 

Sorry, but no table is going to tell you what it should be for irons or whether your numbers are 'good' or 'bad'.   What you can get will depend a lot on your mechanics (as well as the static lofts of the club).  Assuming that the face-path is where you want it and the face impact location is good - smash factor will increase as the dynamic loft delivered goes down or decrease as it goes up.   There is no real optimum or ideal number.   It's really just a reflection of the swing.

 

So NEVER use any table or averages of that smash factor to make equipment or fitting decisions.   ESPECIALLY the chart of tour averages that TM put out a long time ago.

 

In terms of equipment fitting, the important things to look at is the consistency of the number and to use something like impact tape or foot powder spray to check the quality and consistency of the face impact.    And as far as the delivery of the club goes, the launch/spin and (really) the resulting distance and decent angle is what you should be looking at, not the smash factor.   Face-to-path and how the equipment influences that can be useful sometimes as well.

 

 

Stuart.  What landing angle is optimal for irons?  Getting a fitting next week and want to be ready going in.

[Stuart_G]

13 hours ago, Trap Junior said:

Stuart.  What landing angle is optimal for irons?  Getting a fitting next week and want to be ready going in.

 

I said before, there are no "optimal" values with irons.  That's true for all the numbers, not just smash factor.  

 

You should be looking at those numbers but not for any optimal or target values.   Fittings with irons should be first about accuracy, shot shape control / tendencies, and consistency (without too much of a sacrifice to club head speed).  Those are influenced more commonly by the playing length, shaft weight, swing weight, grip size, and maybe stiffness feel for some.    Second  it's about finding at balance between distance (carry) and distance control (decent angle) that's the best for your game on the courses you play (head selection and adjusting lofts) and gives good distance gaps as it relates to your other clubs.

 

But even that can be tough for indoor fittings because hitting off of a mat can skew the numbers (lower spin and increase launch angle).  Of course, outdoors range balls can also skew the numbers if they don't use premium balls for the fitting.

 

[Trap Junior]

1 hour ago, Stuart_G said:

 

I said before, there are no "optimal" values with irons.  That's true for all the numbers, not just smash factor.  

 

You should be looking at those numbers but not for any optimal or target values.   Fittings with irons should be first about accuracy, shot shape control / tendencies, and consistency (without too much of a sacrifice to club head speed).  Those are influenced more commonly by the playing length, shaft weight, swing weight, grip size, and maybe stiffness feel for some.    Second  it's about finding at balance between distance (carry) and distance control (decent angle) that's the best for your game on the courses you play (head selection and adjusting lofts) and gives good distance gaps as it relates to your other clubs.

 

But even that can be tough for indoor fittings because hitting off of a mat can skew the numbers (lower spin and increase launch angle).  Of course, outdoors range balls can also skew the numbers if they don't use premium balls for the fitting.

 

So basically unless you are hitting from grass with premium balls its not helpful?   I agree actually.  Seeing a guy next week who has some machine that tells him how I load the shaft.  Hopefully that is useful

 

I build my own demos and bring them on the course.  I have been testign X100 DG at D2 and Modus 105 X at D4 both in full blades MP68 and MP4.

 

The X100 is performing a touch better.  However I am a little concerned that the low irons will come in too flat and run too much after hitting the greens. Maybe the clubhead is the cause? I have an X100 in a 4 iron Mizuno MP30 currently loft 24 degrees.  Would the X100 work in a more forgiving 4 iron giving higher flight and softer landing? Say a Mizuno H5 for example?

 

My own irons 6.5 Rifle at D1 do not seem to be performing well in comparison. I strike the x100 more solidly and more consistently. I mishit the rifle more often I think because its light(ish) deadweight and light swingweight or maybe its the shaft. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Trap Junior

[Stuart_G]

34 minutes ago, Trap Junior said:

So basically unless you are hitting from grass with premium balls its not helpful?   I agree actually.  Seeing a guy next week who has some machine that tells him how I load the shaft.  Hopefully that is useful

 

I didn't say it's not helpful.  Just that the launch/spin/distance numbers may not be an accurate representation of on course play.  The numbers can still be very helpful in terms of finding the best equipment choice.

 

 

34 minutes ago, Trap Junior said:

The X100 is performing a touch better.  However I am a little concerned that the low irons will come in too flat and run too much after hitting the greens. Maybe the clubhead is the cause? I have an X100 in a 4 iron Mizuno MP30 currently loft 24 degrees.  Would the X100 work in a more forgiving 4 iron giving higher flight and softer landing? Say a Mizuno H5 for example?

 

A higher launching head design might help a little bit but you can also just have the loft bent weaker on the MP30's.  Then the different choice of heads is a bit more about forgiveness, looks and visuals than about launch/spin.

 

34 minutes ago, Trap Junior said:

My own irons 6.5 Rifle at D1 do not seem to be performing well in comparison. I strike the x100 more solidly and more consistently. I mishit the rifle more often I think because its light(ish) deadweight and light swingweight or maybe its the shaft. 

 

Check and adjust the swing weights with lead tape to be the same for an accurate comparison of the two shafts.  For a majority, the 5 gm difference in static weight isnt' that large.  But 5 gm of lead tape wrapped around the PX shaft about 4-5" below the bottom of the grip can be used to test that out as well.    However it also wouldn't surprise me if it was the stiffer feel of the PX that might be part of the problem.

[Trap Junior]

49 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

I didn't say it's not helpful.  Just that the launch/spin/distance numbers may not be an accurate representation of on course play.  The numbers can still be very helpful in terms of finding the best equipment choice.

 

 

 

A higher launching head design might help a little bit but you can also just have the loft bent weaker on the MP30's.  Then the different choice of heads is a bit more about forgiveness, looks and visuals than about launch/spin.

 

 

Check and adjust the swing weights with lead tape to be the same for an accurate comparison of the two shafts.  For a majority, the 5 gm difference in static weight isnt' that large.  But 5 gm of lead tape wrapped around the PX shaft about 4-5" below the bottom of the grip can be used to test that out as well.    However it also wouldn't surprise me if it was the stiffer feel of the PX that might be part of the problem.

oh sorry they are not Project X Rifle but the old Rifles from the 90s.  Also I wont actually be using the Mp30 heads but just using that head as a demo with the X100 shaft.  I plan on playing something with more forgiveness although I am probably hitting the Mp30 just as well as anything.  Just concerned X100s are not stopping quick enough.

I got 10 yds run yesterday on a couple of mid irons slightly downwind.  I played last week in a strong wind and downwind I lost carry compared to my carry distance hitting in no wind on my 6 iron X100.  Is that because they are not flying high enough or too little spin maybe?  With the old rifles downwind I would gain carry.

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Trap Junior

[Stuart_G]

5 minutes ago, Trap Junior said:

oh sorry they are not Project X Rifle but the old Rifles from the 90s.  Also I wont actually be using the Mp30 heads but just using that head as a demo with the X100 shaft.  I plan on playing something with more forgiveness although I am probably hitting the Mp30 just as well as anything.  Just concerned X100s are not stopping quick enough.

I got 10 yds run yesterday on a couple of mid irons slightly downwind.  I played last week in a strong wind and downwind I lost carry compared to my carry distance hitting in no wind on my 6 iron X100.  Is that because they are not flying high enough or too little spin maybe?  With the old rifles downwind I would gain carry.

 

 

Yes, loosing carry distance downwind could be an indication of too little spin or too low of a launch (or both).  Spin tends to be a bit more of a factor than launch.  That's assuming the temperature and/or amount of clothing being worn wasn't a factor in reducing club head speed and/or ball speed.

[liveagua]

On 3/25/2021 at 11:56 PM, Glenn Salongo said:

My smash factor with 6 iron is 1.26. Is that good or should I get a custom fit and change shaft?

 

I swing my 6 iron 95 mph flat out, but normal approach shot is about 90 mph.

 

I play 716 AP2 at D2 SW with TT AMT Black S300. They are bent flat, but otherwise all standard spec.

 

Please share your smash factor and give me a suggestion.

Having a smash factor of at least 1.38 with a 6 iron is optimum...

[Stuart_G]

16 minutes ago, liveagua said:

Having a smash factor of at least 1.38 with a 6 iron is optimum...

 

No, not really.   1.38 is (or was about 10 years ago) the tour average - which means plenty of high level pros are both above AND below that number.

[ateupwithgolf]

I have a black PRGR which I've used to warm up for the past several months, always half shots working to full with my 7 iron, I'm only looking at smash factor the entire warmup, and when I'm hitting it exactly like I want to, my smash is 1.40-1.43 with a forged head honma 747w.  It's not my "average" but its my best shots. YMMV.